BYU Thread
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@nuleafjhawk I, too, am proud/guilty to be so entitled.
Some wins in mid-to-late March can cover the stench of February.
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“How could Larry screw up a roster this bad?!” - Kansas fans February 1988
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Speaking of Larry (or, actually Ted…) From the twitter sphere:
Last night was the latest in a season that Kansas has lost in AFH since losing to Nebraska on 3/2/83. First time Kansas has lost at home after Feb 20th since Oklahoma topped KU on 2/22/84
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@nuleafjhawk said in BYU Thread:
@dylans You know how the fanbase becomes “entitled”, right? By winning. More than any other team in the history of college basketball (yeah, I know the NCAA knocked us back a few). If you’re a Kansas fan, you expect to win. You don’t make excuses for losing. Of course that’s my entitled opinion.
Being too selfish to be self aware is how you become entitled. Lots of successful people are very well grounded.
UConn has a better program than KU currently, yet fans act like it’s a crime against Jesus himself when KU loses. This years KU team was overrated due to name recognition early on and is underperforming late due to injuries.
Self has set a standard that no one, not even himself can achieve. I pity the coach that follows him.
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I honestly think Bill Self’s worst ‘coaching’ move was taking a known risk like Arterio Morris. Bill finds a different guy in the portal than him, and Kevin stays healthy, then we have a really nice squad with 3-4 losses max and debating people if we should be the #1 overall seed. Bill recruited some low character guys in the early to mid 2o10’s and finally seemed to get back to bringing in guys with good character and 2022 happened as a result, well guys with good character who could play basketball really well too!
1st round exit we hear people say. Among all the other superlatives our program garners, going back to 2006 when we last lost a first rounder, we probably have the longest 1st round win streak in the land too. Here’s betting it lasts again, unless Kevin can’t play, then it’s 50-50 we survive even in the 1st round.
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Yeah, it’s funny to consider perspective. I think the reason some may seem disappointed currently despite having a top 10 team is that the expectation this year and every year is to compete for championships. This team has basically failed to reach their own stated first goal, which is win the big 12.
For me, I count making the final four as a successful season. It generally means you had a successful regular season combined with some good post season wins as well. This team can still do that. Worse teams than this have made it to the last 4 out of the tournament for sure. But am I confident that they will make it there? Absolutely not. I do think this is a driver in the Kev situation as well. If we aren’t winning the league, how much do these last few games mean to the progress towards the next goal which is post season success?
Kansas fans are certainly spoiled and Self and the expectations for his teams are a result of his previous success.
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I’m moving on from this L and looking forward to remaining games, there’s still a chance to do well in the dance.
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@AsadZ I honestly think there is a fair chance we don’t win another game this season with Kevin out.
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Did anyone here see the UConn, Houston or Baylor games?
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I haven’t felt like Self has been the issue coaching them up. I do think he is on the hook for questionable roster moves this offseason though.
Neither Hunter or Kev is an All American if this season ended today right? That’s kind of been the thing the announcers/media run with but Kev has regressed in conf play + the injury forcing him to miss games doesnt help a lasting impression. Hunter has put up numbers but has also shown he isn’t a dominant force on his own either. At least for me it’s been disappointing that he hasn’t taken the absence of Kev to step up even more and be the leader/face of the team. Perhaps the voters don’t pay attention as M Much as we do.
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Certainly wasn’t his best game. I understand your frustrations with him and they are valid.
A team is often dependent on its PG playing well to win. Last night was no different.
He’s a great kid, had a tough life and he’s a kid I just can’t root against while he’s here.
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The offseason in general was a head scratcher. The portal was a mess. Morris is a stain on this season and one that won’t be forgotten especially if the end of the season is negative. It’s also an opportunity to learn for this staff what the portal is going to be like, what kind of players should be targets going forward and how will NIL keep this program at the top. This upcoming portal season is going to be pure insanity. It’s one that will make some coaches go in other directions based on what we have seen from the first wave of football portal madness.
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@benshawks08 said in BYU Thread:
I, like someone else said above, think Hunter is the issue. And for me it’s not even the missed free throws. It was his demeanor after every missed shot.
This is it. I was at the game last night, unfortunately (although it was still fun, great crowd, other than–who would have guessed–visiting BYU fans are kind of assholes).
Here’s the deal. Hunter bitched at the refs after EVERY play the second half about getting body checked on offense while going down the set up in the block. Yes, they were putting a little body on him. Little. He’s twice their size and acts like a flower. Spent an entire timeout showing the ref how they are jamming him with a forearm. Next play, ref finally called a foul. Game was tied or we were up or down one. Hunter missed both free throws, then the next two free throws and was basically useless the rest of the half other than one blocked shot against a 6 footer and a wide open three. All that energy being a crybaby for nothing. Was hacked all night and triple teamed and threw out to the wing one time.
His little flop about getting hit in the gut was weak as F too, not to mention the stupid slappy tech.
So… OK, he’s all we have. Million bucks. Love his short jumper touch and moves around the rim. It’s amazing. Could have kept the two bigs we lost Udeh and Zub, I get it. Hope he pulls a Remi in March/April, but it will be kind of icky. I feel bad for KJ, Juando to a limited extent because he hasn’t elevated his game one iota the past two years. Hope Furph sticks around with KJ to transition to another generation.
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@BeddieKU23 I have hope that Bills words with Fran are truly spoken by Fran. He said he’s not going to have such a thin roster again.
We don’t talk abou this enough. Kind of hard to blame him when you look at all the transfers. This is all a moot discussion I think if even half of those guys stick around. In my mind Yesofu and pettaway (sorry if my spelling is wrong) were interchangable. Even one of the two bigs (again, we hardly knew them, Zuby and ??) sticks around. These things happen at least we have a bench.
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@wissox said in BYU Thread:
@BeddieKU23 I have hope that Bills words with Fran are truly spoken by Fran. He said he’s not going to have such a thin roster again.
We don’t talk abou this enough. Kind of hard to blame him when you look at all the transfers. This is all a moot discussion I think if even half of those guys stick around. In my mind Yesofu and pettaway (sorry if my spelling is wrong) were interchangable. Even one of the two bigs (again, we hardly knew them, Zuby and ??) sticks around. These things happen at least we have a bench.
At the very least, Bill won’t purposefully be at 11 (and basically 10 due to the Zach situation) going forward. If gives you so much less room for error. And Arterio was definitely an error. Never should have signed him.
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Damn! It’s always ugly to lose at home, let alone to an unranked team. Venture to say, we got their best shot. They were coming off a horrible game with the kitties and no one can convince me that the kitties play better defense. For the most part, we played decent defense but did often give up the open trey at the end of the shot clock. We have not played another team who ran so much offense… on and off ball screens. They ran and ran and ran. A perfect test for our defense. If we had a couple more days to rest before this one, I feel sure we would have won.
I do feel like others… that Hunter is the guy we should be squeezing more from. The missed FTs were costly. But more… we should be able to feed him in the post freely. I know we don’t have the greatest trey shooters, but good enough, and especially if they are wide open. I don’t blame Hunter for most of the problem here. It’s the offense we run and we need to clear out low post area for Hunter to go 1 on 1.
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@drgnslayr Hunter had a bad game no doubt and we knew coming in he could be a bit of a drama queen. I really think him getting the T fired up BYU and it was silly. He was being a dick to be a dick in that situation But y’all loved the Morris twins for doing similar stuff. If he makes his free throws I’m fine with everything he did beside that.
Part of the reason we give Juan so much crap is he hasn’t improved his game at all. He’s literally the same player he was as a Sophomore. He hasn’t improved his FG% or FT% his assists to turnovers are almost identical. He still looks scared to shoot most the time. I get he’s pass first and that’s fine but he just moved up 5th on KUs all time assists list and even if he plays next season he ain’t gonna get close to touching Miles’ all time record or Vaughn in second guys that were great pass first PGs.
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@drgnslayr said in BYU Thread:
Damn! It’s always ugly to lose at home, let alone to an unranked team. Venture to say, we got their best shot. They were coming off a horrible game with the kitties and no one can convince me that the kitties play better defense. For the most part, we played decent defense but did often give up the open trey at the end of the shot clock. We have not played another team who ran so much offense… on and off ball screens. They ran and ran and ran. A perfect test for our defense. If we had a couple more days to rest before this one, I feel sure we would have won.
I do feel like others… that Hunter is the guy we should be squeezing more from. The missed FTs were costly. But more… we should be able to feed him in the post freely. I know we don’t have the greatest trey shooters, but good enough, and especially if they are wide open. I don’t blame Hunter for most of the problem here. It’s the offense we run and we need to clear out low post area for Hunter to go 1 on 1.
What we need is get it into Hunter’s head is quit shooting the dam three, post your ass down low and play like your a 7’1 dominant post player, demand the ball take it to the hole and challenge the opposition to stop you. – He is like ONE out of his last twenty three point attempts , - his free throw % has dropped like a atom bomb , since Conference has started and like Bill says at times the word he uses - - Hunter is SOFT, like a roll of Charmin. -I mean good God your 7’1 man - -play like it
Like some others have mentioned , Hunter spends to much time whining and bitching to the refs about how opposition is doing things , Well Hunter has giving out some cheap shots himself—kind of dirty and then expects nothing in return.- Hunter if you feel like they are cheap shots then dammit on the offensive end then use your ability like I said take the ball to the hole be aggressive and flush the ball- - if you can , make them challenge your shot dam,
If were going to start disecting players like some have with Juan then let’s just be real and dissect every player on here- -they all HAVE FLAWS MAJOR FLAWS - Juan is the easy scapegoat. -Hunter to me just to me complains to much whie the rest of the team gets down the floor to try and play D -he comes Hunter jogging along ahhh don’t gt me started. Time for Hunter Play and quit crying
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One thing worth pointing out: is I have no doubt with Kev playing we would have easily beaten BYU. With Kev out we have no one willing to attack the basket through contact. He’s also another threat from three. His D is probably the best on the team, and that helps Juando on D. (Really need a couple good defensive guys working together to create turnovers) Kev also bitches to the refs a lot, which takes some of that burden away from Hunter, so there’s that too. LOL
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@DanR To be fair, KJ attacks the basket through contact but defenses have such little respect for his shooting that they are generally set by the time he gets there leading to not too many foul calls in those situations. And then I do feel refs just kind of stop calling it ANY time KJ draws contact.
As for Hunter, I honestly believe if we had any kind of reliable big back up, Hunter might have seen significant bench minutes and endured the Self toughening box. But as is, he’s been allowed to play his game. There’s a reason he was productive and his team was still unremarkable at Michigan. (Parker is fine but not a game changer in any way, kind of a budget mitch and that’s saying something)
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@benshawks08 said in BYU Thread:
@DanR To be fair, KJ attacks the basket through contact but defenses have such little respect for his shooting that they are generally set by the time he gets there leading to not too many foul calls in those situations. And then I do feel refs just kind of stop calling it ANY time KJ draws contact.
As for Hunter, I honestly believe if we had any kind of reliable big back up, Hunter might have seen significant bench minutes and endured the Self toughening box. But as is, he’s been allowed to play his game. There’s a reason he was productive and his team was still unremarkable at Michigan. (Parker is fine but not a game changer in any way, kind of a budget mitch and that’s saying something)
Exactly , and Hunter knows Bill has nobody else- -kind plays in, which also I really don’t care if he comes back or not next yr. If he does then ok, will have some better relief and maybe we see a better version, but as fa as this year not that impressed. About all I can say is – he is big, when your bigger then most , ya your gonna get points and rebounds. Also like was said when he was at Michigan-with Hunter—EH.
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This team as it is constructed would be terrible without Hunter. It’s debatable about where it would be with Udeh and Zuby.
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To be fair to Hunter… part of his “attitude” comes from getting banged on every play and rarely getting calls his way. It’s the price for having his size.
Instead, he should embrace the contact and learn to use his size better to position down low. It’s an automatic 2 when he can get low positioning and it’s always there if he is willing to fight for it.
Not sure what he is thinking about a career after KU. Shooting 3s is fool’s gold for him. No team wants to sacrifice his size and down low scoring to add another trey shooter subpar to other options.
His technical helped encourage BYU. No doubt about it.
Still… I’m awfully glad we have Hunter because without him this year we are a 500 team!
If I look at the BYU game and pick underperformers… I’d tag Hunter, but also KJ. KJ is another one of our guys who needs to better embrace contact and use it to his advantage. He has improved (dramatically) this year… but it’s still not where it needs to be because he is such a brut stud athlete. If he wants a shot at the NBA, he’ll have to design his own unique game style and it will be about being physical.
Outside of Juan’s 4 TOs… I didn’t have an issue with his game. He had a few nice aggressive scores in this game, too.
Furph let it all hangout and he was good, just not his best shooting night. Hard to criticize a player who hustles like Johnny!
BYU is an unorthodox team. It’s a team we needed to prepare uniquely for and I think it showed that we didn’t do that. It is very untypical for us to prepare a unique game plan for the opponent we play. It’s part of Self’s style to just stay running our type of game regardless who we play. I can’t recall another team we’ve played in years that brought this style of offense to AFH. Not even Princeton.
Nick didn’t shoot well… but he still played a physical, tough game and I give him cred in this one.
Elmarko shows signs but still needs a lot of work. He may have a tough time next year earning minutes if he doesn’t step it up a big notch.
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@DanR said in BYU Thread:
One thing worth pointing out: is I have no doubt with Kev playing we would have easily beaten BYU. With Kev out we have no one willing to attack the basket through contact. He’s also another threat from three. His D is probably the best on the team, and that helps Juando on D. (Really need a couple good defensive guys working together to create turnovers) Kev also bitches to the refs a lot, which takes some of that burden away from Hunter, so there’s that too. LOL
Yep, Kevin is our only guard that hunts for himself really. I’m guessing KU adds at least three in the portal (we will have to see who all leaves of course) and I think there will be a priority on secondary ball handler and guys that can create a bit for themself. Otherwise next year’s roster really has a lot of the same issues. If they are going to roll out KJ at the 4 again (history indicates they will) then we really need additional handling and shooting from the other two starting spots pretty badly. Furphy coming back would help a lot but who knows at this point with him.
The trickle down effect from Kevin not playing is massive. Jamari got completely lost multiple times on defense.
Speaking of bitching at the refs, that tech from the BYU coach turned the game, the next 7 calls were on KU iirc.
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BYU was basically KU but with guys who can actually put the ball in the basket from deep. They pass it just like us, had almost identical assists per game as us. How they ran offense sharing the ball should have looked familiar. KU had a scouting report on this team for months and then poorly executed whatever changes they made to guard them from 3. BYU knew KU would revert to their ways when the shot clock got low or was stuck in close out situations. I thought we did an OK job in the first half forcing them into rushed or low % looks but that 2nd half was bad defense. Self is vulnerable against these teams until he adjusts his scheme which I don’t see happening
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Except they ran at least double the on and off ball screens we run. Their offense was crazy active and it paid off. We fought hard on defense but it’s hard to make it through a 30-second shot clock when teams run stuff throughout the clock.
We were totally gassed the second half. Made it hard to run offense when our guys were so winded. They had more endurance than we did. Perhaps because they only had one player who put up 30+ minutes while our starting 5 were 30+!
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We had their 2 primary ball handlers in severe foul trouble and they were left to put their leading scorer who comes off the bench on the ball and he picked us apart so badly they could bring Hall back in and he smelt blood. I still think we did a very poor job of disrupting what they wanted to do. The ball went wherever they pleased. They got the shots they wanted so often the shots they made were not a surprise once they had momentum. They stepped up on our home floor and we didn’t match it enough. Really disappointing to see.
But we don’t lose this game if the offense shows up. The free throw misses were reminiscent of how we lost to Cuse in the Championship game.
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Absolutely correct! If our offense showed up we won easily. But a big reason why our offense didn’t show was because we were winded. They usually ran their shot clock down to almost zero, and we had to fight through screens that entire time. How much energy did we have left when going to our end to score?
You are right that we didn’t disrupt their offense enough… it was everything we could do just to keep close to their guys. The one way we could have disrupted their flow would be to anticipate screens coming and have either of our defenders step into the screen paths to disrupt it.
We really needed Kevin in this game. Then we have two defenders (Kevin and Juan) capable of disrupting offense.
Oh shizzzz… the Cuse game! How could I forget?! A new term was coined from this game… “Hacka Hunter!”
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One thing is for sure… I guarantee… KU fans in AFH will remember BYU. And so will our teams. I’ll be surprised if they ever win again in AFH!
I remember when UT throttled us in AFH after TRob’s mom died. Remember this?
https://jj.kusports.com/news/2011/jan/23/texas-snaps-streak-jayhawks-cope-loss-thomas-robin/
Since this game every Jayhawk fan wishes everything but death to UT when they come to Lawrence!
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@dylans I’m with @drgnslayr if we don’t have Hunter we aren’t making the NCAA tournament Zuby and Udeh both have looked terrible in the games I’ve watched. There averages combined x2 are still less than Hunters averages to date. I would be happy if one stayed instead of getting Parker.
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@BeddieKU23 I compared it to the cuse game during the game.
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I don’t think BYU wanted to foul Hunter as much as they did but it seemed to me it shifted to a coaching decision once he missed some and they were getting in his head. Also reminds me of when Kruger “Hack a Doke’d” KU @ OU a few years back, KU lost due to that strategy that night. Hunter shoots it better statistically but he’s missed plenty when we’ve needed him to focus and step up and Tuesday was no different. He’s been in an awful shooting slump since December.
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Hunter in conf play- 57% FT, 17% from 3, 51% FG. Yikes
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@BeddieKU23 said in BYU Thread:
Hunter in conf play- 57% FT, 17% from 3, 51% FG. Yikes
Yikes is right, he has just got to tighten the nutts and play like a man - -dam use that height & bulk to HIS ADVANTAGE makes these guys defend him. - -He needs to be like Choclate thunder use to be.–Remember him ? - when he went up to flush the ball he took it up and he said he dared others to challenge him, he said because the jam/flush time was HIS TIME and dared anyone to try and reject him - love that approach, Hunter needs that kind of mentality. Like if you wanna try and stop me then - -you better bring your lunch cause I’m coming and taking names. instead of some fluff boy. Get that mean streak in ya
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@kjayhawks I think you are mistaken, I have never said Hunter is anything but good for this team.
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I don’t buy the tired legs theories out there. These are young men in their primes. They only play two games per week! Come on. If this is really an issue with this team then they need a better strength and conditioning program.
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@RockkChalkk said in BYU Thread:
I don’t buy the tired legs theories out there. These are young men in their primes. They only play two games per week! Come on. If this is really an issue with this team then they need a better strength and conditioning program.
EXACTLY - - - -thank you.
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Hm. Every player on the court is going close to 100% theoretically and our roster is shorter. The margin of difference between fatigue and non fatigue may be small for a person in their prime but the consequences can still be significant in a high level game.
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We shouldn’t have been winded, we just had 7 days off and another 3 to the BYU game. Something is really off with this group this year from a conditioning standpoint. BYU played 9 guys and only 1 hit 30 minutes and that was because of foul trouble. All 5 KU starters hit 30+ minutes again. It seemed like Self committed to playing the bench more with substitutions the last 2 games but it’s still an issue with guys playing too many minutes. I know Kev is 30+ minutes missing but man we just seem to have issues that are usually not a talking point (like conditioning). I can’t recall a season where its been this visible
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BYU Bench minutes- 84- 29 points. Played 9.
KU Bench minutes- 37- 9 points. Played 8.
Pope might have outcoached Self here. Fouling Hunter, using his bench heavy. Sounds like BYU plays a lot of guys, Self doesn’t generally. Perhaps it’s something that needs to change in the future. The game is ever changing and it doesn’t seem like guys are holding up playing 33+ minutes a night.
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I hear what you are saying. Perhaps it’s just with some of our guys on this team. Every player is unique on conditioning, even when going through a conditioning program.
Earlier this year I questioned Furph’s ability to go for 30+ minutes. I think his conditioning has actually strengthened as the season comes to a close. He has a bit of a high school player’s body… but he’s definitely improved (including improving his defense against the drive). I’m expecting him to be a completely different player (stronger) by next fall, if he comes back!
If he builds his body this off-season he’s pretty much a shoe-in high lottery pick next year, regardless of the talent in the draft.
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I went back and watched some highlights earlier of the 2012 season because it popped up on X. It’s almost sad how unathletic we are compared to that team. They are pushing the ball and every player is catching lobs just fun stuff to watch. Man I hope now that the investigation is over we can get back to getting athletes.
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@kjayhawks KJ, Furphy, and Nick are all above average athletically in my opinion. Have we seen many Furphy lobs though? He’s had plenty of jams in transition but has he gone back door for the classic Kansas lob?
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Maybe Baylor will play zone so we can get back to lobs.
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@benshawks08 I bet they do, maybe not as much w/Kevin playing.
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Do you think coach talks to Hunter about his bad behavior on the court?
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@benshawks08 I think only KJ and Furphy are elite athletes. Yes we have several above average this is D1 basketball. But overall top to bottom this team is one of Selfs worst IMO. Only team that comes close is the 2019 team to me.
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@RockkChalkk I’ve been preaching this since Hudy left and I just mentioned watching the 2012 team, that teams bench was even shorter than this teams yet we are just too tired to play. I’m really starting to question this deal with LMH health.
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@RockkChalkk THANK YOU. I’ve been saying that for years. 17-22 or so year olds cannot get that tired. I used to play ALL DAY in Houston’s Herman Park and go back for more on Sunday when I was young. The only way they could be tired like that is if they believe the BS about being tired.
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@kjayhawks based on what? In football we’ve had very good player durability and conditioning. Or is all the other sports where we’ve had issues if you can name them?
I think it’s more mental than anything. Bill’s system is pretty demanding and being that mentally geared up that long has to be tough.
