Other Big-12 action
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HighEliteMajor said:
BShark said:
Multi-year 5* dream recruit. Thank goodness for that connection because the rest of the class is reaaaal lean.
What? Lean? We’ve got Tyon Grant-Foster. I hear he’s a possible all-America, a possible pro, I mean, you know … what else could a team need?
Now the number 1 juco recruit in the nation. Has had some games recently that weren’t as good but hes still averaging almost 19 a game
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Big 12 is going to be what it normally is. Kansas runs away with the league, a bunch of mid seed level teams and probably one, maybe two bad teams (both wear purple). Big 12 will get their usual 6-7 teams in the NCAA tournament and most will be gone before the first weekend is over. Kansas and Baylor are the two that should make it to the S16 or deeper. I know we laugh at Drew a lot, but he does have multiple E8 appearances at Baylor because his style is effective in that format until they run into an elite team.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I think that is perhaps over-generous or over-optimistic. The B12 is arguably much inferior to recent years. The conference typically has a few high profile non-conference wins at this point - usually KU has a couple, Texas often has one and maybe 1 or 2 others from the rest of the brethren.
This year, not so much. Questionable whether the entire conference has a quality win that will help with seeding - Villanova, Syracuse, Dayton??? Maybe one could argue that no one has a REALLY bad loss, but that is thin gruel. Two conference losses to a mediocre Georgetown team, TTU’s 3 game losing streak, and the Bunnies losses would suggest that 6-7 teams this year is a stretch…
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Basketball is down in all conferences!
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@DCHawker Except it’s not a stretch. The B12 is still highly regarded by most computer metrics. 8 of the 10 teams are in the KenPom top 50 right now with TCU at 53. KSU is the only team that KenPom has as being true garbage at this point in the B12.
A typical B12 is KU is the overwhelmingly best team, a bunch of good teams that won’t do much in March and maybe one or two really bad teams.
KU should win the B12 by 2-3 games this year with 14 or 15 league wins. Baylor probably comes in second at 12-6 or so. 3rd through 7th are probably going to be in the 10-8 to 8-10 range with TCU and KSU the only two that won’t be on the bubble this year.
There’s been plenty of years where the B12 lacks in marquee non-conference wins, but still got 7 in because there were no bad losses among the midpack teams. That appears like it’s going to be the case again this year.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I agree, the B12 is one of the toughest leagues because it usually has no bottom and is a double round robin. There won’t be a team that doesn’t win at least 5 conference games.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 What I was principally (mildly) disagreeing with was your comment about the B12 having a “typical” year. My point, which I stand by, is that this is not really a typical year for the B12 given the absence of any - thus far - marquee non-con wins, combined with a paucity of NBA level talent in the conference (at least as measured by the projected drafts).
But, I also think it will be more difficult for the B12 to get as many teams in the tourney as in recent years, in large part because of the absence of quality wins. I recognize the some of the computer metrics rate the B12 highly - but that is more of a function of the absence of really bad teams, not taking any really bad losses, and overall smarter scheduling - not scheduling as many 200-300 ranked cupcakes.
What the selection committee has always most valued is who did you beat. Probably second to that is wins on the road. As of now, KSU, TTU, TCU and ISU have really beaten no one of note. But, they do each have games coming up against quality opponents. Those might be must win kinds of games. Otherwise, unless any of them have a better than .500 record in conference play, they will have double digit losses, fewer than 20 wins, and no quality non-conference wins to fall back on. It may be that their only opportunities for getting quality wins would be beating KU or BU. And, to the extent that KU dominates conference play, it makes it more likely that there are a bunch of .500 or below conference record teams.
The saving grace may be that this seems to be a down year generally and other Power 5 conferences will be in the same boat…
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Baylor is up 17-8 on Arizona right now, but nobody is there to see it.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Basketball is down in all conferences!
Agreed , part of it too I think is that quite possibly from what I see is the change in the 3 pt distance. - I don’t think teams are shooting the 3 overall as well - kin of weird to think a couple of feet would make that kind of difference.
I think scoring is down as a whole - -sure some teams still putting in the hole but as a whole I think scoring is just down - - -talent is not as dep I don’t think - -the better talent not as deep
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Baylor is up 17-8 on Arizona right now, but nobody is there to see it.
your right pretty empty. - at 1st I thought man what’s wrong with these people. then I remembered championship football game today - -a lot of their fans at that game, - -a lot of others probably staying home watching that game on TV.
Yet the one’s that are there , they just suck hardly no noise period;
Observations from the game : - -1st - -Baylor IS a good team - -very good guards - quick , - 2nd - -Today anyways Arizona , not as good look a step slow.
One thing I found out really quick - - -Really like Nico Mannion , wish he could of landed here , kid is solid , looks very mature as a freshman - very sweet passes has a nice shot , good ball handler - ya I like this kid. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@DCHawker A lack of marquee non-conference wins outside of KU has been the Hallmark of the B12 for years. Last year was an atypical B12 season. The B12 has had two peaks of having multiple great teams. The early to mid 2000’s when Texas, OU, and OSU all had Final Four teams and the past 2-3 years when OU and Tech also had FF caliber teams. The early B12 years were very lean for quality in the B12 as even KU had a couple of down years and the league had no threat to win a title. From the mid 2000’s until the mid 2010’s you had the a couple of teams that challenged for B12 title, but weren’t national title contenders.
The B12 far more often than not has been the KU show with a bunch of good teams, but not good enough to beat elite teams and usually had one really bad team.
This really is shaping up to be a typical B12 year of KU winnithe league comfortably, maybe one other team getting a 4-5 seed, a bunch of 7-10 seeds that lose the first weekend and maybe a bubble team a couple other team’s on lesser post season tournaments, one making a deep run in the NIT, and one team that’s relaxing in March after the B12.
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@jayballer73 Definitely watching the Big 12 championship game. They are missing this great coaching war between Scott Drew and Sean Miller.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Last year non-conference wins included UNC, Arizona, Michigan State, Oregon, Florida, Dayton, Notre Dame, WSU, USC, Creighton, LSU, Marquette, Tennessee and Villanova. Nothing close to that yet this year, but there are several quality win opportunities over the next week, including BU vs. Arizona now.
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Big 12 has Kansas vs Colorado, Kansas at Villanova, Kansas vs Tennessee, West Virginia vs Ohio St, Baylor vs Arizona, Baylor vs Butler, Baylor at Florida, Iowa St vs Seton Hall, Iowa St at Auburn, Texas Tech vs Louisville, Texas Tech vs Kentucky left for quality wins.
They have wins over Dayton, Villanova, and Purdue right now. Seems pretty normal.
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@DCHawker And the B12 still only got 6 teams in the NCAA tournament last year. The only real difference between last year and most other years was Texas Tech swapped places with KU as the dominant team in the B12.
Look at what actually happened last year with the B12. One title contender, a bunch of solid teams that weren’t good enough to make it past the first weekend. Texas Tech was the only team that made past the second round last year in the B12.
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Nico Mannion is good but UA fans have been acting like he’s the best point guard in basketball putting up numbers against bad teams. Arizona finally plays a good team and Mannion is 2-12 with 8 points, 4 assists, and 3 turnovers.
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I know if there was a down vote button I’d get double digits.
But Scott Drew should be in the short list to replace Bill Self.
He’s a good coach.
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@Kcmatt7 You sure would.
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Under a minute a foul before the ball is inbounded should be ruled intentional
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Baylor is up 17-8 on Arizona right now, but nobody is there to see it.
Admission was free to students also. They must’ve gone to see the football team lose to Oklahoma again. Baylol.
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Baylor is for real. - -I’ll be honest I thought Arizona would go in and win. - - Baylor has 3 really good guards
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West Virginia kinda got homered in the final 5 seconds of the game. - -THAT was NO foul in any shape or form.
Tie ball game St johns drives to the hoop - -St John player slips driving in falls into Culver - makes contact from slipping and they call Culver for the foul - game should of went into overtime
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Kcmatt7 said:
I know if there was a down vote button I’d get double digits.
But Scott Drew should be in the short list to replace Bill Self.
He’s a good coach.
No, Drew should not be on the short list to replace Self. He is a good coach, but he’s underachieved on a semi-regular basis as well. I don’t think Drew is good enough to coach a blue blood program and perform well enough.
He’s been at Baylor as long as Self has been at KU so obviously you don’t stay at a school 17 years by being bad at your job, and I’d rate him as the 3rd best coach in the B12 right behind Self and Huggins. Chris Beard may surpass him soon, but Beard needs some sustained excellence at Tech first.
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Good win by Iowa St against Seton Hall last night.
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I’m surprised by that one but looks like Iowa St will be Jekyll this season. I’d imagine they will play up against KU too. Haliburton is a stud
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@BeddieKU23 of course they will, Hilton magic, curse of fran too!
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@BeddieKU23 Eh, Iowa State’s lost 3 games: A road game at 7-1 Oregon St (they are probably better than Oregon St but road games are road games); a neutral-site game against Michigan (Top 10 team); a neutral-site game against Seton Hall (ranked team). I think they are a bit better than their record. Tyrese Haliburton might be the best point guard in the country, at least so far.
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The Zags/Washington game was interesting. UW has two 1st round picks and likely Lotto Selections in Stewart/McDaniels but the rest of the team underwhelmed. Quade Green gives them a steady force at PG at least.
Gonzaga is a big team. Petrusev, Tillie, Timme & Kispert are all 6’7 and taller. Few keeps reloading.
Oklahoma St was terrible again. Likekele being out is killing them.
Iowa ST got a big win, maybe Seton Hall was a little overrated coming into the season. Powell is great but they don’t seem to have enough around him.
Texas beat a terrible Texas A&M squad by 10. Same theme really with that school.
Depaul lost at home to Buffalo. Guess they came back down to earth after a scorching start.
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Makes sense they beat Seton Hall this time around especially in Hilton. I thought Iowa St was a Top 4 team in the Big-12 before the season. Haliburton has improved a ton and will be a tough matchup for Dotson. Interesting that they are shooting the ball horrible as a team from 3 outside of Halliburton
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@BeddieKU23 They’re saving their 3’s for us. Damn nice of them.
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Of course they are but they have some bricklayers compared to other years.
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SHU was w/o their top big in the 2nd game.
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Broke his wrist, apparently.
Sparty without Rocket Watts who’s dealing with a stress reaction. Yikes
Notre Dame lost a player for the year and another transferred. Down to 8 scholarship players.
Other teams finally feel our pain
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Two big games for the conference tonight. Butler is @ Baylor and Tech and Louisville are playing at MSG. After tonight Baylor will have played 3-top 20 teams so I applaud them for that. I think they win tonight. Tech will have a tough time with Louisville tonight, but I was surprised to see the betting line at only 6. If Tech does lose they will be 5-4 on the year.
Maryland is @ Penn St , UCONN / Indiana are playing as well at MSG, and Northern Iowa is @ Colorado. Pretty good slate of games tonight.
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Tech can win if they don’t turn the ball over. They were ranked 90th in turnovers per game last season, they are 228th this season. Also ranked 3rd in opponent points per game last season and are 84th so far this season. Small sample size but it would appear they aren’t as good defensively as they were last season. At least not yet.
Baylor should win but I have no confidence in them to do anything ever. They’ve been good this season though.
If Maryland doesn’t play better than they did against Illinois at home then they are losing to Penn St.
Hopefully Colorado can keep winning until their game with Dayton. Haven’t heard anything about Tyler Bey.
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Don’t think Tech can win with Ramsey out.
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I can’t tell if Louisville’s offense is terrible or Texas Tech’s defense is elite…
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Louisville is just terrible tonight
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6-19 from two in the first half for Louisville wow
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TT up 5 with 15:43 left.
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Tech up 9 with 12 to go
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Louisville straight up sucks tonight
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BeddieKU23 said:
Louisville is just terrible tonight
spot on - - -Tonight. - -yet I think it might be a little of both , - -terrible tonight AND Tech defense pretty solid tonight.
I would think people would have to be really naïve to count Tech out as having some say this season - - their losses have been in OT I know in one at least - -and playing without Ramsey - they gonna be there
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Baylor in a tight one against butler, great defensive battle.
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Watching
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Tech is for real because their coach is for real.
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@HighEliteMajor he’s the next big thing in coaching if he stays around.
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Baylor trying to give it away late, if I remember right we led the whole game one time down there and gave it away late.
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Baylor hangs on 53-52
