Devon
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@drgnslayr The issue with not having a couple of reliable three point shooters is that defenses can pack the paint against KU to take away drives. We saw it last year that without reliable outside shooting (especially after Vick was removed from the equation), KU had extended runs where they struggled to get good looks and would have a 4-5 minute stretch where they didn’t make a FG.
I’m not saying this team should jack them up like the teams from 2016-2018 did because KU doesn’t have multiple guys capable of hitting 42% and above on a near nightly basis. This is why Isaiah Moss is so key for KU this year, he’s the guy that can force defenses to be honest because he can knock down 3’s, even if he’s not the most consistent guy. I also think Dotson is the other high minute guy that can knock down near 40% this year. I don’t really know what to expect from Agbaji this year in terms of shooting. It seems like he was pretty good before his shin issues, but I could be off on that. I’ll be happy if he’s at 35% this year. Having reliable outside shooters will also help Garrett out on offense quite a bit because that’ll keep teams from doubling him on drives which is his biggest strength on that end of the floor.
I’m very curious to see how this team looks on offense this year because the possibility of this team regressing on offense is real to me. Moss is a very similar type of player to Vick on offense so that’s a push at that spot to me. Silvio is a downgrade on offense from Lawson. I honestly don’t know if any of the freshmen are going to see significant minutes this year once Self trims the rotation.
Defensively, this team should be much better because Moss and Silvio are much better defenders than Vick and Lawson were along with getting Grimes out of there. I genuinely don’t see the offense being significantly better this year, but the defense should be quite a bit better and make the offense look like they’re much improved.
My one concern with team chemistry is with Isaiah Moss. Not in regards to being a team cancer because there’s nothing to indicate that. My concern is that he wasn’t on campus this summer getting those scrimmage reps with his new teammates building on court chemistry. I know he and Dotson have played together before so it shouldn’t take long for them to click, but he’s never played with the other players and I’d be willing to bet we see some miscommunication early on with Moss because of that. I don’t expect that to be a season long issue, but I think it will be an issue probably until sometime around Christmas break.
I know some will take my being critical of some areas as me being down on this team, but I think this a team more than capable of making a run to Atlanta this year. The only team that I think has a higher ceiling than this team is Michigan State.
The key for this team is keeping Doke healthy. If Doke stays healthy all year, this team will go to Atlanta. Even as flawed as last season’s team was, they beat several really good teams while Doke was healthy. I know Dotson is hugely important as well, but I think Dotson’s more replaceable on this team than Doke is.
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Very solid post. I can’t really disagree with anything you said, except I do think Moss will be a leap up over Vick. I definitely think he should work out to be more consistent down the stretch, where Vick would usually disappear.
If teams pack the paint enough to stop a lightning speed Devon, then they will have to leave guys too open from the outside, making fair shooters sharp shooters. To stop Devon they will have to be posted in his driving lanes.
I like the idea that we have a PG extremely capable to blow by someone and also finish. If Devon turns out to be the warrior I think he will be, then the rest will fall into place. This year’s Devon should be the difference over last year’s Devon (on offense). But all we can do is speculate for now, and dream…
I completely agree with you on the defensive end. We should be much better. Also… having more depth in the post will be a big help there, too. Defense was our biggest failure last year. It was hard to recognize that team as a “Self team.”
Ultimately, the most determining factor will be team cohesion. From what I hear and feel, this team will come together and conquer. A far cry from the mysteries of last year’s team.
It’s a good idea to advance with caution. I’m just enjoying the possibility of a stellar year! And I’m not thinking of a Calipari “perfect season!”
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Excellent analysis. I think you hit every point. The one point I would make about Moss is he has played with Devon in the past, so that familiarity could pay dividends in several ways. When he starts learning the offensive sets, and he is completely wide open for shots, I think he is going to very glad he isn’t still at Iowa. Like you said though, it’s going to take some time to adjust.
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I would not want to think of Silvio as a downgrade as an offensive threat compared to Lawson even tho he probably will not score as much. We pretty much had to ride Dedric all season wearing him out in the process and we are more rounded now, i hope, so no one player should have to carry the load he did. I see Silvio as a more mobile athletic and aggressive player he also showed some midrange touch and I would like to think that has improved. So as a scoring threat he’s likely to be right up there as someone you have to defend and defend well at all times or he will eat you alive.
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Just watch this highlight when thinking about comparing Lawson to Silvio.
Now I’m not saying I don’t like Lawson. In fact it’s opposite. He was drug through the mud last year with how much he was used. He lacked a few… umm abilities, but he had his heart in the game. Without him last year we wouldn’t make it to the tournament. He’s up there in the top 10 favorite Jayhawks for me.
Who’s better? Silvio in my opinion but he won’t average a double double.
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I think who is better depends on your team. I think Dedric could be a magical fit in some circumstances. But if I got to choose regardless of fit, I’d take Silvio. No question.
@rockchalkwyo Nothing against Dedric, but you’re first I’ve ever heard that would put him in their top 10 Jayhawks.
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@HighEliteMajor absolutely I’d take Silvio over Lawson any day. I just hold Lawson high on my list just because he bailed us out last year and had heart. He wasn’t flashy or cocky about it either. Just curious, who’s your top 10?
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It can be difficult to do a true comparison between Lawson and Silvio because their skill sets are vastly different. My main comparison is that Lawson was a well refined player with a a well rounded offensive game. Lawson could score from any level from in close to the mid-range to the perimeter. Silvio isn’t there yet with the development of his offensive game. Unless Silvio has range we don’t know about yet, he’s a non factor on the perimeter to hit an outside shot.
I think Silvio can eventually get there with his range, but I don’t see it happening in 2019-20 for him though.
On the defensive end, it’s not close that Silvio is the better player compared to Lawson because of Silvio’s athleticism. It’ll take time for Silvio’s offensive game to develop because he’s still relatively new to the game of basketball.
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@rockchalkwyo 1) Mason 2) TRob 3) Hinrich 4) Jordan 5) Releford 6) Collison 7) Collins 8 ) Manning 9) LaFrenz 10) Simien – others I debated including were Chalmers, Withey, Graham. Just my favorites.
You?
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@HighEliteMajor nice list. Mine would have to be… 1) Mason without a doubt! The rest are interchangeable more or less. 2) Graham 3) Manning before my time but I watched a few highlights and man was he good. 4) Trob 5) morris twins. I can’t say one is better than the other. 6) Svi he started playing at 16, well I believe. My memory gets foggy from time to time. 7) Hinrich
Chalmers he might actually be more top 20 but sending a championship game to over time is pretty cool.
9) Whitney
10) Dedrick. If he was on 19 of 20 KU rosters he would no doubt be a bench player but with how he bailed us out he’s up here for me. Yes I know I might be the only one but hey, it’s my opinion right?Also I grew up without cable and what TV I did have it was so spotty that I barely even seen a game that wasn’t a tournament game. So all of my favorites are relatively recent
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@rockchalkwyo @HighEliteMajor let me play. #1 Frank. His story is great. Overcame hard obstacles. Gives back to Petersburg now. Love the dude.
#2 Mario. Ice cold.
#3 Devonte. BIG shoes to fill. Sucked in Franks final game. Came back hard and led the team the following year to the FF.
#4 B Rush. Most reliable corner 3. Underrated D on CDR. I remember the first game he played, reverse jam full speed in transition. Felt the defender on his hip and did what had to be done. Awesome.
#5/6/7 Darnell/Sasha/Russ Rob. These are all interchangeable. Team was so good. Those guys were the heart. Darrell and Sherron were the most talented and I appreciate that. But they aren’t what I see when I close my eyes and think of that team.
#8 Svi. Worked hard and was so money his senior year. Drilling threes against Kentucky and Duke were highlights.
#9/10/11 TomRob, Withey and Releford. Loved the toughness of that team. Those guys worked hard and got better year over year. Tom Rob was a double double machine, Withey a block party, Releford a lockdown defender that improved his shooting year over year.
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Good lists all around! I’m quite surprised nobody included Wilt or Clyde Lovellette
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@HighEliteMajor Cannot argue your choices so I included some well known but not on many lists. I have Steve Woodberry, Mark Randall, Richard Scott, Rex Walters, Darnell Jackson, Scot Pollard, and Travis Releford. There are many others who could be named and discussed here.
We have certainly been near the top of most recruiting classes although this years class was below standard if ONLY looking at incoming freshmen but the way everything else fell into place, it’s a very solid class of 3/4 year players who will be the backbone of this team for the next 4 years.
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@FarmerJayhawk If I had been around and saw them play then an easy yes. I didn’t see Jo Jo White mentioned or Darnel Valentine (my time period) either. So many good players it’s hard to go wrong.
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No Paul Pierce? Man, loved watching him play. Other then that, I’d fill out my top ten with players already mentioned.
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Lawson would not make my top 100 let alone a top 10.
1 Manning 2 Valentine 3 Pierce 4 Vaughn 5 Raef 6 Thompson 7 Simien 8 Rush 9 D Jackson 10 Mason
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No love for 45 year old Perry Ellis?? Kidding. He’s not in my Top 10 but surprised he wasn’t mentioned.
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Not sure who would fill my Top 10 list… I know the Big Dipper, after that I continually change my mind, depending what day it is.
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@HighEliteMajor Manning at 8?
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@jhawk7782 I like that Woodberry, Randall, Scott and Walters made your list. They were transistional players that helped us get over probation, and they won alot of games.
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This post is deleted!
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@Marco whyd you delete? I liked your list
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@approxinfinity Really, you liked @Marco’s list of 1) David Padgett, 2) J.R. Giddens, 3) T.J. Pugh, 4) Tyrone Appleton, and 5) Luke Axtell? I only saw these five before he deleted.
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Ok, Top Ten non-studs, but great Kansas players – lunch pail, blue collar, bleed crimson and blue. Here are my top 10: 1) Jeff Graves, 2) Kevin Young, 3) Clint Normore, 4) Nick Bradford, 5) Landon Lucas, 6) Patrick Richey, 7) Conner Teahan, 8 ) Chris Piper, 9) Tyrel Reed, 10) Jamari Traylor. (I love Tarik Black, but just had him one season).
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HighEliteMajor said:
Ok, Top Ten non-studs, but great Kansas players – lunch pail, blue collar, bleed crimson and blue. Here are my top 10: 1) Jeff Graves, 2) Kevin Young, 3) Clint Normore, 4) Nick Bradford, 5) Landon Lucas, 6) Patrick Richey, 7) Conner Teahan, 8 ) Chris Piper, 9) Tyrel Reed, 10) Jamari Traylor. (I love Tarik Black, but just had him one season).
Ok now this is what I meant by having Dedrick in my top 10. I just Liked the guy so much I couldn’t separate the list. Thanks HEM
Now what about everyone’s favorite game? Not counting the 2008 championship because we’ll, that’s just a no brainer
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@HighEliteMajor haha I didn’t see any of those on the list youre referring to
he did have Adonis Jordan on there and I believe you did as well. I was surprised and didn’t realize that he had a big impact on the program. He was before I followed the program.
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Since I became a Jaywhawk in '85. Danny, and then everyone else. I’m not sure if people who didn’t watch him day in and day out realize how good of a player he was. At the time people were comparing his skill set with Magic Johnson. Of course Danny didn’t have the flair of Magic, but he was every bit as good in college. After the great players of '86 left, Danny carried that team maybe like no other player ever has since Wilt. I’d put Pierce at 2, Chalmers at 3 for his clutch gene, Collison, then Frank, then Kirk, then Simien, then Joel, then Sherron, and oh I guess Brandon Rush last in my top 10. But we’ve had so many to choose from!
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I started watching in 89, so no Manning.
- Mario
- Jacque
- Haase
- Pierce
- Jordan
- Hinrich
- Ostertag
- Collison
- TRob 10a. Mason 10b. Simien Can’t stop here…
- Embiid
- McLemore
- Darnell
- TJ Whatney’s mustache
- Sherron
- Rush
- Withey
- Walters
- Woodberry
- Gregory
Ugg forgot Devonte, Raef, Morrii, and Pollard. So many to chose from. I’m sure I’m forgetting someone epic.
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@dylans Silly list. Jordan played for North Carolina.
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@wissox lol A. Jordan not The Jordan.
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Anyone remember Mark Randall?He was really good in his day.
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@KUSTEVE I do, even had a cup of coffee in the NBA with the Bulls. He and Richard Scott made a great front court on the 91 near champions.
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@wissox That’s when I realized what a genius Roy Williams was as a coach. He took a marginal talent, taught the guy to seal off his man in the post, and make the easy layup. He became a force on our team. That’s some great coaching with that one.
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@KUSTEVE I agree. That 91 team was not loaded with NBA talent. Yet they came close.
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Enjoying this thread. Bball is still too far off!
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BRADY!
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@mayjay where is Brady on your list? I think hes about 85th on mine.
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KUSTEVE said:
@wissox That’s when I realized what a genius Roy Williams was as a coach. He took a marginal talent, taught the guy to seal off his man in the post, and make the easy layup. He became a force on our team. That’s some great coaching with that one.
I realized it when we smoked UNLV at Madison Square Garden in the 89-90 season. Back-cuts galore. One of my favorite non-March games.
@approxinfinity Adonis was awesome. Loved how he commanded the floor. Right behind Mason as far as KU PG in my opinion. Hard nosed. Tough D. Excellent 3 ball. Nails as a ball handler.
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Amazing how our program savior (Andrew Wiggins) isn’t on ANYONE’S list.
And no Josh Jackson. No X. No Selby. No Cliff. No Grimes.
Another that sticks out — No Selden.
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Tyshawn should be on my list…well good Tyshawn.
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@dylans Tyshawn doesn’t make my list because he was a knucklehead for the better part of his time here and he could not shoot the three. EJ doesnt make it because of the Mitch McGary nut punch.
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@HighEliteMajor BMac, technically not a OAD, and Joel are really the only OAD’s I ever cared for.
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@HighEliteMajor I’ve got a soft spot for Josh Jackson, but agreed…not top 10 material.
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@approxinfinity Final Four. One got KU there, one player cost KU one.
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Pollard is on my list of favorite 3 point shooters.
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I’d take wiggs and Benny mac. I have to many, can’t do 10. I loved wiggs, I know not many on here are fans, he was our best defender too.
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@HighEliteMajor That was my favorite game of the Roy Williams era. We POUNDED UNLV. When UNLV went on to win the national championship, I kept thinking if only we had made it that far, the championship would’ve been ours…
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My all knucklehead team: Tyshawn, Carlton Bragg, Vick…twice, EJ, Cliff Alexander. Who am I missing?
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KUSTEVE said:
My all knucklehead team: Tyshawn, Carlton Bragg, Vick…twice, EJ, Cliff Alexander. Who am I missing?
Greene and Tharpe.
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dylans said:
@approxinfinity Final Four. One got KU there, one player cost KU one.
I’d argue EJ was a big reason we made the Final in 2012 though. I did very much appreciate EJ, and that he played out of position for us and was money in that tournament. I think he also played hurt a large part of his time at Kansas
