Wake-Up Call
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Is this the wake-up call Self needs? Might miss the tournament next year but if it creates some long term change and rejuvenates the program maybe it’s worth it.
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Or Self really might be leaving. Not adding anybody and with everything else it does kind of add up to that.
Maybe the hammer is coming. Rumors have been swirling since Nov/Dec.
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Certainly that thought cant be completely shut with the fire sale going on.
Just the way things are now. He could recruit 4 yr guys that leave too. Kids have no loyalty nor should they have to
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Yep. Everyone is leaving, no one is coming in.
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26-10 was the wake-up call.
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They have the free chance to test, why wouldn’t they?
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@BShark stop!
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
They have the free chance to test, why wouldn’t they?
This is my thing. It’s an absolute no-risk move to test and get feedback. Did anyone here get their resume looked at before they graduated college? Do a mock interview? Externship? Same deal here.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark stop!
Stop what? Not sure KU will be able to put a basketball team on the court next year.
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BShark said:
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark stop!
Stop what? Not sure KU will be able to put a basketball team on the court next year.
put the pipe down
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Self gonna hit up the Topeka YMCA? Maybe some church leagues? Certainly not signing any high schoolers or impact transfers to get on this sinking ship. Assuming Self is still here.
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You act like there aren’t a gazillion good players still left out there that KU is in a good spot with. Dotson will almost certainly be back. KU is in a good spot with Precious, Hampton, and some grad transfers. I guess if things are that bad you can always follow dook.
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@BShark Some of the guys at the YMCA and the Churches might at least have 3-4 years experience. Let’s give it a shot!!!
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No super high ranked guys means no quick fix means a possible long term solution is on the horizon. It also may make for another year (or two) of below Kansas‘ usual standard under Self.
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And FWIW, you can test as many times as you want. https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/enforcement/2019ENF_NBAMemo.pdf
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@FarmerJayhawk Funny loop-hole if you declare a third time and pull out you can still get drafted and lose your NCAA eligibility.
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@dylans Super high ranked guys don’t guarantee immediate success either.
Zion
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FarmerJayhawk said:
You act like there aren’t a gazillion good players still left out there that KU is in a good spot with. Dotson will almost certainly be back. KU is in a good spot with Precious, Hampton, and some grad transfers. I guess if things are that bad you can always follow dook.
I’m just feeling zany because everyone is jumping ship (even if DDot comes back as expected) and KU hasn’t added a player since the fall.
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Overreacting. This is simply the new landscape of college basketball. 3-4 year players at the same program will become rare.
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BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
You act like there aren’t a gazillion good players still left out there that KU is in a good spot with. Dotson will almost certainly be back. KU is in a good spot with Precious, Hampton, and some grad transfers. I guess if things are that bad you can always follow dook.
I’m just feeling zany because everyone is jumping ship (even if DDot comes back as expected) and KU hasn’t added a player since the fall.
Right, which is totally normal since the early signing period isn’t until next week. There’s always a lull during the season.
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@BShark I think the reason we are not adding anybody is the Adidas thing.
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nuleafjhawk said:
@dylans Super high ranked guys don’t guarantee immediate success either.
Zion
IDK when he played they rarely lost and it wasn’t Zion’s fault. I would have gone with a different example like Grimes.
I don’t like OADs, but I think you sure as heck take the right one.
Josh
Anthony Davis, Josh Jackson, Zion Williamson all nice players that just needed surrounded by a few upper class men to succeed.
We all may have a different opinion if Embiid had stayed healthy.
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dylans said:
nuleafjhawk said:
@dylans Super high ranked guys don’t guarantee immediate success either.
Zion
IDK when he played they rarely lost and it wasn’t Zion’s fault. I would have gone with a different example like Grimes.
I don’t like OADs, but I think you sure as heck take the right one.
Josh
Anthony Davis, Josh Jackson, Zion Williamson all nice players that just needed surrounded by a few upper class men to succeed.
We all may have a different opinion if Embiid had stayed healthy.
We run people like crazy if Bill lets Joel come back his sophomore year. I’ve heard Joel was in tears in Bill’s office wanting to come back and Bill would not take yes for an answer.
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Everyone Calm down! Dotson is just testing the waters, it doesn’t really mean anything besides he prob only ends up being here 2 years. I would bet we still have Ochai, David, Garrett and Dot next season. Which are solid piece to build around but won’t do us a ton of favors for long term. I’d look for the big step back after next season.
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Not even worried yet. At all. As long as Dotson is back this is a tournament team even with just the 7 guys we know.
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Remember folks Dook and Coach K have had the best recruiting class for 3 years running. Zion, Barrett and guys are winning all sorts of awards now that the season is over. But they only have a ACC regular season and tournament title to show with zero FFs. That alone makes me surprised that Coach K has came out in support of the OAD rule. At this point could because of NIKE’s checkbook. Self’s best teams have had 1 or zero OADs or transfers on them. Auburn and Virginia had several guy rated in the 70s or higher. We just need to get the right guys, I think this is a lesson that Self and co are learning right now.
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As I recall a year ago Self said (paraphrasing) I don’t care about rankings were going after the guys we want.
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Kcmatt7 said:
Not even worried yet. At all. As long as Dotson is back this is a tournament team even with just the 7 guys we know.
That’s kind of a low bar. Tournament team?
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kjayhawks said:
Remember folks Dook and Coach K have had the best recruiting class for 3 years running. Zion, Barrett and guys are winning all sorts of awards now that the season is over. But they only have a ACC regular season and tournament title to show with zero FFs. That alone makes me surprised that Coach K has came out in support of the OAD rule. At this point could because of NIKE’s checkbook. Self’s best teams have had 1 or zero OADs or transfers on them. Auburn and Virginia had several guy rated in the 70s or higher. We just need to get the right guys, I think this is a lesson that Self and co are learning right now.
Duke didn’t win the regular season title. They actually haven’t won an ACC regular season title since 2010.
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I still have eligibility.
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kjayhawks said:
Remember folks Dook and Coach K have had the best recruiting class for 3 years running. Zion, Barrett and guys are winning all sorts of awards now that the season is over. But they only have a ACC regular season and tournament title to show with zero FFs. That alone makes me surprised that Coach K has came out in support of the OAD rule. At this point could because of NIKE’s checkbook. Self’s best teams have had 1 or zero OADs or transfers on them. Auburn and Virginia had several guy rated in the 70s or higher. We just need to get the right guys, I think this is a lesson that Self and co are learning right now.
I think the lesson is the kids/society is all about instant gratification and many high talent prospects are unwilling to put in the work.
Hiring/recruiting in general is tough. You have willing and unable, or able and unwilling. When you get both it’s like finding a freaking unicorn, but they bolt as soon as they can because they’re ready to take the next step.
I guess it’s a niche for someone to fill.
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wissox said:
I still have eligibility.
I am thinking the same thing!
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I played some driveway ball just last weekend, I’ll send my LOI in.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Your right they won two conference tournaments titles not one each.
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This discussion is why I’ve enjoyed becoming a Badger fan the last two decades. You actually get a chance to feel like you know the players because they’re there. They’ve had a few early departures, but none after even 2 years as I recall. Devin Harris and Sam Dekker left after 3 years.
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kjayhawks said:
Remember folks Dook and Coach K have had the best recruiting class for 3 years running. Zion, Barrett and guys are winning all sorts of awards now that the season is over. But they only have a ACC regular season and tournament title to show with zero FFs. That alone makes me surprised that Coach K has came out in support of the OAD rule. A
Maybe Coach K is [not / no longer] a good coach. Maybe OADs require him to do less work.
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How many guys like Dotson does the nba need? Aren’t they pretty much stocked with super fast guards of his height (or taller)and overall skill set?
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HighEliteMajor said:
Kcmatt7 said:
Not even worried yet. At all. As long as Dotson is back this is a tournament team even with just the 7 guys we know.
That’s kind of a low bar. Tournament team?
Well that’s what we play the regular season to get to.
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@Kcmatt7 Not really. Some might argue that KU plays to win a national title. And yes, I know the obvious. But the point is KU doesn’t play just to get in the tournament. That’s not the goal.
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@HighEliteMajor History shows that playing to win the NC is not even statistically probable or feasible. If we were winning 2-3 NC’s per decade, then maybe. But the reality is we are just an annual tournament team and no better. It kills me to admit this, but winning 4% of the NC’s since 1952 would tell me that we really don’t have the juice to say we think we can win every year. Are we top tier? Yes. Are we consistently really good? Yes. Are we an all-time great franchise? Yes. Can we really expect to win every year? 4% efficacy rate says No.
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@dylans “As I recall a year ago Self said (paraphrasing) I don’t care about rankings were going after the guys we want.”
Did he say anything about not giving a S*** about North Carolina?
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@nuleafjhawk Yikes. Nope. I always liked Roy. Seems like a great person. That was no bueno though.
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@Fightsongwriter Respectfully, the likelihood of a national title has little to do with a blue blood — Duke, UNC, UK, KU — having that as the ultimate goal each season.
And your analysis ignores the relative likelihood — the small group of teams that have won. This season was an aberration.
It seems to me that without the goal and expectation of a NC each year, and just the pedestrian goal of making the tournament, we’re a glorified K-State. No thanks.
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@Fightsongwriter KU only hangs banners for conference titles, Final Four’s, and national titles. I think it’s pretty clear what the program’s goals are each year.
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@dylans I seriously have had a love / hate relationship with him. I loved him for 15 years, hated him for a couple when he left and teeter back and for between rooting for or against UNC. Why couldn’t he have played at SOUTH Carolina or some other school that isn’t relevant to basketball?
All in all, Roy is a great guy. I would welcome him home to Lawrence any time.
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@nuleafjhawk Roy was always approachable and friendly when you’d see him out and about. Sometimes he’d even start the conversation. Seemed genuine. I’m sure leaving Lawrence wasn’t easy on him either. Years and national championships help heal the exit wounds.
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@dylans Yes. I had the opportunity to meet him once. As you say, he was very approachable and genuine. He treated people with respect.
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@HighEliteMajor Don’t get me wrong, we actually should have won several more, but there are factors at play that are keeping us from being on the same level as Duke, UK, UNC, and even the Uconns and Novas of the world. I equate it to the recent history of the Green Bay Packers (my other favorite team after KU). When you have Farve and Rogers for your QB for nearly 30 years, you should have a lot more than 3 Super Bowl appearances and 2 wins. We are very similar. We make the playoffs every year (which sets us very far apart from the KStates of the world), but we are not winning the big one. In fact, we are more often than not getting embarrassed in the game before the big one. I hate it but it’s true. 4% is not enough to honestly say we think we can win it every year. We are the Packers not the Patriots.
The debate of why we are not winning more could perhaps be another very interesting thread (especially if we have been getting “help” from our shoe whores). I WANT to win it every year as much or more than anyone, but I have recently changed my expectations to be more realistic. The reality is, winning our league (total Big 12 domination since the conference began) and going to the tournament every year (which we’ve done for 30 years running) seems to be much more our ceiling than NCs based on the hard numbers. I would that it were not true, but there is some factor out there that is keeping us from breaking into that more dominant tier a la the Patriots.
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@Fightsongwriter It would be easier to fix the Packers. Their GMs and very average coach have squandered most of Rogers career. At least in the NFL the teams in the playoffs have earned it. Making the NCAA tournament is easy, winning it even with the best team is partially random. 6 single elimination games isn’t the best way to determine a true champion. The whole thing is rigged judging by Virginia’s win anyway.
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@dylans Very true, it the end it’s all about the NCAA making bank. If they really wanted to see who the best team is, they’d let the higher seed host the first 2 rounds. KU, Auburn, NMSU and Northeastern all play their games at AFH. Then the sweet 16 is double elimination at neutral sites. Now we very well could’ve still lost to Auburn this season at home but no way we lose to the likes of UNI, Bucknell or Bradley in AFH. There wouldn’t be near as many upset and the average venue is smaller so the NCAA would lose to much viewership and money from attendance to do this. It’s the same reason the FF is bring held at football stadiums that hold 80-90K people tho folks that I know that have gone say its a shit gameday experience. They want to sell as many seats as they can, why sell 25k seat for an average of $1500 dollars when you can sell 90k seats for an average $1200 and make tons more money.
