Jaybate, what is your gut telling you with these pipe bombs?
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@kjayhawks I think they are getting help from people as they go through, aren’t they? All those kids, such desperation. There is so much poverty in the world.
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@mayjay @Kcmatt7 agreed, nothing wrong with trying to better ones situation. It will be very interesting to see what happens if these folks do get to the border. I’m perfectly fine with anyone that wants to come here to better their situation. I also don’t believe that they should get some of the benefits that they do (as I stated in previous posts one of my best friends went to college half priced because he is 1/4 Hispanic tho his grandpa migrated here when he was 2 and his family hasn’t had ties Mexico for several generations, not to mention he glows in the dark he is so pale lol, one would never guess he was Hispanic the least bit) I also don’t believe in just letting in anyone that comes and whether that’s right or wrong could be debated but many country’s including Canada have immigration laws (I actually know someone that tried to illegally go to Canada once Trump was elected and was deported, he is on a waiting list that could take several years to get him approved) several countries in Africa and the Middle East the offense is punishable by death.
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kjayhawks said:
@mayjay @Kcmatt7 agreed, nothing wrong with trying to better ones situation. It will be very interesting to see what happens if these folks do get to the border. I’m perfectly fine with anyone that wants to come here to better their situation. I also don’t believe that they should get some of the benefits that they do (as I stated in previous posts one of my best friends went to college half priced because he is 1/4 Hispanic tho his grandpa migrated here wehen he was 2 and his family hasn’t had ties Mexico for several generations, not to mention he glows in the dark he is so pale lol) I also don’t believe in just letting in anyone that comes and whether that’s right or wrong could be debated but many country’s including Canada have immigration laws (I actually know someone that tried to illegally go to Canada once Trump was elected and was deported, he is on a waiting list that could take several years to get him approved) several countries in Africa and the Middle East the offense is punishable by death.
I agree that we shouldn’t just let anyone in. I think it is unfair to those trying to go about it the right way. But I do think immigrants are the backbone of the country. So, I’m torn.
I read a comment by someone today and it really had me thinking. It was roughly “If someone can walk across the desert to get here, they must have one hell of a work ethic. I’d hire one of these people in a heart beat.”
We definitely need reform. We need to find a way to let good hard working people in to come here and prosper. And pay taxes and their fair share along with that. I don’t have the answer, but I would find it tough to not let these people in the country who were so desperate to get here. Those are the type of people we want in the United States.
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@Kcmatt7 Yes, I have a coworker that came here legally that I’ve worked with for about 8 years and he absolutely hates illegals because he says they make him look bad. He is a good dude and worker. He actually says he enjoyed living in Mexico but his dad just couldn’t find a steady source of income while they was there.
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kjayhawks said:
@Kcmatt7 Yes, I have a coworker that came here legally that I’ve worked with for about 8 years and he absolutely hates illegals because he says they make him look bad. He is a good dude and worker. He actually says he enjoyed living in Mexico but his dad just couldn’t find a steady source of income while they was there.
I worked with a bunch of legals/illegals over a summer. Probably the hardest workers I’ve ever seen in my life. And FUNNIEST coworkers I’ve ever had. They made weed eating sand into my own face all day seem fun.
99% are good people just trying to make a living. It is the 1% everyone is fighting over. And I don’t know how to weed them out. We never have been able to with immigrants. The Irish Mob. The Italian Mafia. The Russian Mob. The Cartels. We will never be able to weed it out. So thinking stopping people from coming here is definitely not the issue.
I think the biggest issue is not having a plan for them in our current economy. We don’t have the same type of jobs to offer immigrants that we used to. We have moved from an industrial economy to a service economy and adding unskilled labor to the labor pool creates a big problem. There are really a finite number of unskilled labor jobs that exist in modern day America and immigrants are willing to take less than American citizens for these sucky jobs. Which is lowering the floor for income. Which lowers it for most everyone else.
So, of course I have no idea how to fix it. But I do know that is the major reason for people not liking immigrants in the U.S. It all has to do with protecting their own livelihood.
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@kjayhawks This is a followup to my above post. But you can see why the uneducated lean Republican and conservative on this issue. It is because immigration effects them the most. Of course someone with a college degree making a decent living is going to say “let them all in!” It is much easier to feel compassion when the thing you are deciding on doesn’t effect you.
Edited
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@Kcmatt7 -
. Large amount of opinion there.
Why in the world do you say “uneducated lean Republican and conservative”? Unsupported statement.
“Republicans make significantly less than seems and are less likely to be college educated”?
Wow. Just - wow.
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@Gorilla72 https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/22/democrats-more-educated-republicans-pew-research-c/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/03/21/as-americans-become-more-educated-the-gop-is-moving-in-the-opposite-direction/ https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/22/politics/democrat-republican-education-poll-women-pew-research-trnd/index.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/political-party-household-income/
I’ll edit the part I will agree was incorrect on. The make significantly less. Not true. You are right.
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@Gorilla72 Fwiw, I do know those are all referencing the same thing.
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@kcmatt7 - your statements and supporting references are elitist and condescending to those without a college degree. It effectively calls everyone who is conservative or without a college degree “uneducated” and infers they are fearful and unable to think for themselves. Immigration effects all of us through taxes, not jobs. It takes away money from deserving US homeless, military and blue collar. I’m quite disappointed you believe that way. So what if a conservative doesn’t have a college degree? Don’t you think they are largely hard-working and contributing to the economy? They may be, for all you know, secure in their jobs and not afraid an illegal immigrant will usurp their work. You may be unaffected in your high paying upper echelon job, but the rest of us aren’t!
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My impression is that a lot of the jobs that are being taken by illegal immigrants are jobs citizens don’t want, at rates citizens don’t want to work for. Also, that we do get about 11 billion in taxes from illegal immigrants, and they are far less likely to seek out public programs for aid because they are scared to. And while theres some accuracy to Trump’s claims (that were exaggerated numbers, his MO) about the outright cost of illegal immigrants, this doesn’t account for our economic dependence on the low skill, low pay work they provide. Also, their second generation is very good about paying their taxes.
Anyway, point being, I’m curious what jobs you or anyone around you have competed for against illegal immigrants? How has their presence personally impacted you? I do think there’s truth to saying that “uneducated” Republicans live are “fearful” @Gorilla72. The Republican position has been to aggregate wedge issues to retain a Republican majority at least since 1994, when Newt Gingrich flipped the house Republican for the first time in 40 years. Wedge issues are often based on fear, and ignorance, and absolutism. Donald Trump is a walking talking wedge issue.
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@Gorilla72 I’m sorry you feel I was condescending. I’ll just leave it at that and not reply any further.
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@approxinfinity On the jobs issue, I do think the existence of a shadow work force like illegals contributes to lower wages overall. To say that only illegals will take those lower paying jobs is to admit that the employers are both exploiting their status and keeping wages lower. If the illegal labor market dried up, especially with the low unemp rates now, wages would have to increase. So, people who might get those jobs at higher rates may well end up staying unemployed. Right now, a PT job at McD’s and another at Walmart might pay more overall than the types of FT jobs illegals take at lower wages.
I have read some economic studies that say the SS and Medicare systems are being kept afloat largely due to “contributions” by illegals that are withheld by employers but which will never be collected. I think that may be bogus since I would bet many employers just falsify pay records showing withholdings but keep the money.
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@mayjay I agree that the SS Medicare myth of it being kept afloat is completely bogus. I would bet a overwhelming majority of employers are withholding the money and just pocketing it.
People that are in favor of just letting people in ( anyone) do you just not care that it cost you and everyone else more money in taxes, health care premiums, etc… ?
I was with a group of guys the other night and this topic somehow came up and those were two of the main talking points. When illegals come in and have to go to the doctor or hospital without insurance and can’t pay the bills who do you think pays it?
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@Woodrow I totally agree that immigration needs reformed and taxes need to be paid. And as @mayjay said, they are lowering the floor for wages in part because of this.
The problem is not immigrants themselves. It is that we aren’t even trying to keep track of them and we aren’t punishing their employers anywhere near harsh enough to deter the behavior.
I’d be in favor of a mass registration period where we hand out work visas to the majority here. With the expectation that they will now have to pay taxes and that we know who the employers are and we can collect taxes from them as well.
But the economic benefit of them is still better than not having them overall. Sure it costs you some money now, but what is their economic benefit of being here. If you were paying twice as much for food as you are now, would that be more or less than you would save in health care and taxes? These are just generic questions. I do not know the answer to them.
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@Kcmatt7 I hate being labeled. Not all of us fit in the conservative or liberal side. I sure don’t! Stats or not, I thought it was mean.
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@dylans probably knows this better than me, but s central and all of western ks depend heavily on documented immigrants. They pay taxes and the ones I know work extremely hard. The farm communities are experiencing hard times due to the tariffs, those guys, small time farmers, the ones that keep schools and towns thriving don’t want the government handouts. The big corporations are getting most of those. My point is they are vital to those communities. I know a lot of people in north east ks have no idea what goes on, south or west of Topeka.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Farm work is really hard. My dad had over 300 acres, most worked on by a couple different groups. It wasn’t turning the profit I would want so I ended up just selling the land.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Sorry mom, I’ll be nicer.
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Our country is being overthrown, as are every democratically elected government in the world. It is unfolding right before our eyes. They are in the process of crashing the stock market. Both republicans and democrats are deeply involved. Immigration is involved. The middle east wars were designed to create massive migration. Recently in Sweden, immigrants coordinated a firebomb attack simultaneously in 4 different cities. So, mixed in with people wanting a better life are people wanting to destroy the country they migrated to. My belief is Maduro is making life so terrible, he is trying to displace people to cause migration. Some force is manipulating a whole slew of South American economies, which is causing economic turmoil all over the continent, which will, in turn cause massive migration. If they build the wall, they’ll simply figure out a new system for entry in the country. This process is inevitable - they will destroy the nation state.
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Welp
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@BShark If you don’t want to take the red pill now, it’s ok. But it won’t be long now where there won’t be a choice.
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Suspect in custody:
Seems to be quite the dedicated Trump supporter.
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@approxinfinity - Personal impact by illegals? Yes. I live in SoCal where we have a true melting pot. And, yes I have a degree from Pittsburg State in accounting and finance. I’m a CPA and have been in management positions all my working life.
- Rented a property to an illegal family based on false documents from them and the county. As a result it took me 3 months and $4K to remove them.
- Schools here are heavily populated with Latinos who speak no English, yet are placed in classes K-12. My grandchildren are faced with a slower pace of learning, Hispanic cliques and bullying. They can’t wear American flag symbols on their clothing because it creates animosity among other races. I have relatives and friends who teach at the high school level. It is common for classes to be disrupted, as well as the aforementioned learning, clique and bullying issues. Mexican flags, for whatever reason, are common. I know several teachers who quit over these issues because administration would not support them. Minorities cannot be failed without significant review – district policy.
- Until I retired, I managed a million sq ft distribution center in LA. We hired people who later turned out to have fraudulent SSN’s, false I-9’s and also clique issues. Often, termination was required for these violations and it was frustrating spending training time these people (then terminating), researching drug sales (then terminating) and arbitrating issues among various groups. There was quite a bit of animosity. I’ve been accused of racism for terminating guilty parties.
- I live in a medium sized town where almost all retail, common maintenance and other unskilled labor is performed by Hispanics. Generally, they do good work. Conversely, the area is becoming much less safe as indicated by Sheriff’s reports, drugs and violence is rampant based upon such reports and news articles. ICE and the Border Patrol are fairly active here. In short, living in “socialist” California is no longer pleasant. If this is the future of America, I’m worried. Perhaps your world is populated by a majority of white people but mine isn’t. Values are changing quickly here and I’m expected to accept it. SOOO glad I’m retired. Maybe I should move back to Kansas or maybe Texas….
Done ranting…… I won’t read the political section of KU Buckets any more.
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@Gorilla72 They can’t wear American flag symbols?! What a joke. Sad thing is liberals and Dems are OK with that, and more worried about the illegals.
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@Woodrow I love it when I am told what I think! Thanks for that!
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I am waiting for you Limbaugh woofers to try to justify the baseless accusations that the bombs were sent by a liberal. Must have been a really deep plant to be willing to have stickers with Dems in crosshairs.
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@bcjayhawk I saw that. Democrats shoot people at softball games, and republicans send pipe bombs. That’s why I’m neither.
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@KUSTEVE There is no equivalency here. Let’s see, one Republican was shot, and a few have gotten shouted at. On the other side, a democrat was shot in AZ, a right winger attacked a DC pizzaria accused by unhinged RWers of being a Clinton pedophilia center, a RWer killed a peaceful marcher in Charlottesville, anti-abortion RWers have bombed clinics and killed doctors and nurses, the President praises a campaign staffer for criminal assault on a journalist while the world stands horrified by a journalist’s assassination, and he has also encouraged police brutality in arrests during a time of horrible upheaval due to police killings of unarmed suspects and even innocent people in their own houses. And that is just part of it. When you notice you are on the side of the guys carrying Nazi flags, it might be time to step back and examine what in the hell you are doing.
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@Gorilla72 Thank you for sharing the issues as you see them with specific details. We are so bad at talking in this country, and this sort of explanation is very valuable. Why would you be done with the political section after you shared a detailed explanation of your stance in I think pretty reasonable terms? In my mind, this is the exact kind of honest detail that should bring us closer to a place of resolution and compromise. Thanks man.
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@mayjay The situation has deteriorated to where they are shooting people at softball games, and they are sending pipe bombs through the mail. This is all by design. You can’t overthrow a government without pure rage, and both sides are driving people crazy…They are agitating for a civil war, and this is what it looks like. It’s alot easier to overthrow a country when they are at war with themselves.
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@Gorilla72 I’m really sorry! It’s nothing like that where I live.
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KUSTEVE said:
@BShark If you don’t want to take the red pill now, it’s ok. But it won’t be long now where there won’t be a choice.
Yeah I’m not big on conspiracies. US corporations have long controlled Central and South America though, if we are being honest.
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@mayjay That pretty much makes my point. I’m sure they have a list, too. We’re comparing lists to condemn and marginalize the other side as the evil ones, when in reality, none of the crazies ever represent the vast majority of their party. These are the true believers, who have swallowed whole the rhetoric that each side spew on an everyday basis. Both sides want you to think the other side is just like that terrorist that tried to blow people up, or shoot them. The Borg is itching to have as much conflict and turmoil as possible. This division is a planned event. Everybody is in on it except us, and we’re the unwitting fools walking straight into our own demise. I don’t think we have the capacity to fully understand how bad it will be.
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The Chinese are all over Latin America and America companies don’t have the influence they once did.
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bcjayhawk said:
Suspect in custody:
Seems to be quite the dedicated Trump supporter.
You mean like the shooter that was A Bernie supporter that unloaded and shot a Republican representative at a base ball game? You mean like that kind of supporter?
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mayjay said:
@KUSTEVE There is no equivalency here. Let’s see, one Republican was shot, and a few have gotten shouted at. On the other side, a democrat was shot in AZ, a right winger attacked a DC pizzaria accused by unhinged RWers of being a Clinton pedophilia center, a RWer killed a peaceful marcher in Charlottesville, anti-abortion RWers have bombed clinics and killed doctors and nurses, the President praises a campaign staffer for criminal assault on a journalist while the world stands horrified by a journalist’s assassination, and he has also encouraged police brutality in arrests during a time of horrible upheaval due to police killings of unarmed suspects and even innocent people in their own houses. And that is just part of it. When you notice you are on the side of the guys carrying Nazi flags, it might be time to step back and examine what in the hell you are doing.
Really? You have Liberals running around dressed up as ninjas with pack packs full of batteries disturbing those that disagree with them? OH but they are peace free speech loving people. And when was the last time a Liberal was banned from a college from speaking? Shall I go on. When have you seen a Liberal been attacked while they are trying to eat a peaceful dinner?
Oh you want to bring up Nazi flags. Um do some homework your Dem party was the party of slavery. Your party could care less about the black Americans of this country. Just as long as the vote Dem. OH see Trump lowest black unemployment in the history of this country? Yet no ok maybe he not a racist? Nope. Spare me your Nazi talk. See above about free speech. It isn’t Conservatives that are blocking free speech.
All you have is some crazy fuck that mailed a bunch bombs than had no chance of going off.
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Noticed how this terrorist that did this went from facing 68 years in prison to 58 to now 48 years? What’s going on. I wouldn’t be surprised if this douche bad walks free.
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@DoubleDD language!
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Yea @mayjay That is Steve Scalise shot by a crazy Bernie Sanders Lib.
Not one Rep/conservative blamed Bernie Sanders or the Dem party. Yet here we are now and Trump and his voters are getting blamed for a crazy person that sent out a bunch of so called bombs.
Oh please tell me again how we need to check ourselves? Maybe I just need to drink the koolade your drinking?
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@DoubleDD language!
Why? This guy was a douche bag. Lets call it for what it is.
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@DoubleDD So, either your memory is as bad as your logic, or you are purposely lying, or you just simply let yourself believe whatever crap your fearless leaders feed you. Republicans jumped all over Democrats for the Scalise shooting. Here is a summary of some:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/after-shooting-some-gop-blame-incitement-democrats-n772586
Since you probably won’t read that because it comes from an MSM source, try Googling “Republicans blame Democrats for shooting” or put it into any search engine you want.
Amazing what people do to avoid thinking on their own.
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That van feels like it almost has to be fake. Like…what in the world…
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I apologize as I think you really wanted to have a honest debate.
This guy is crap and deserves the death penalty in my thoughts.
@mayjay you still didn’t answer the question? Why can’t you give props when they are deserved? Black unemployment is the lowest in the history of this country. Under Trumps watch. Why can’t you be happy about it? Why because it wasn’t your party and your leaders? I"m so tired of people like you throwing around Nazism and KKK when it comes to the Republican party. What about the Dem party? Wasn’t Communist backing the Dem party and their flavor? What you forget old Uncle Joe? The man that killed more people than Hitler. Does not history show that the Dem party was the party of slavery? Did we not see Hillary your parties girl have so much respect for a KKK leader? Yea you like to dish it out but you don’t like to take it. Do you need to go to that safe place?
Show me one link where Obama got blamed for Steve Scalise. And don’t come up with some way crazy web link. Try to stay main stream. Can you do that?
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@DoubleDD good gosh you are crazy!
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@DoubleDD good gosh you are crazy!
OH and your of a sound mind? Now just do what your told.
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@DoubleDD Your little group of extremists includes Nazis NOW. If you want to go back to the Dems in the 1800’s and the 30’s enjoy the trip.
You posted originally: “Not one Rep/conservative blamed Bernie Sanders or the Dem party.” So the NBC article, which isn’t mainstream enough for you, refutes that. Just admit you forgot, or just keep embarrassing yourself. I am done with anyone who cannot see all those Trump stickers on the MAGAbomber’s van.
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mayjay said:
@DoubleDD Your little group of extremists includes Nazis NOW. If you want to go back to the Dems in the 1800’s and the 30’s enjoy the trip.
You posted originally: “Not one Rep/conservative blamed Bernie Sanders or the Dem party.” So the NBC article, which isn’t mainstream enough for you, refutes that. Just admit you forgot, or just keep embarrassing yourself. I am done with anyone who cannot see all those Trump stickers on the MAGAbomber’s van.
Oh I see your still avoiding the question? Ok I’ll start. I love that Obama Care brought about that Insurances companies can’t preclude those with preexisting conditions. A worthy and noble fight that should be considered when voting.
Now your turn? Yea that’s what I thought. If you and your Dem party cared so much about the Black Americans of this country why can’t you just be happy that we finally have a president that has lowered the unemployment rate of Black Americans to the lowest rate in the history of this country?
Still no go? Yea that’s what I thought.
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@BShark @approxinfinity Somebody please, dear God, close this thread. It is just painful.
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Trump has used stirring up hate and divisiveness as his platform, so I do think it is fair to say he played a role in some of the recent events. You can’t shake up a soda can and then say oh it’s not my fault when it sprays everywhere.
