FBI...here we go
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@BeddieKU23 Girod and some lower level guys.
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“Code, Dawkins and Gatto are each charged with five felony counts related to wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud; Gatto faces a sixth felony related to a pay-for-play scheme involving Kansas recruits.”
Not great. Just have to hope nothing comes back to the school or Self.
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Witness lists just have names of everyone who could be called to testify; not all of those will be.
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BShark said:
“Code, Dawkins and Gatto are each charged with five felony counts related to wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud; Gatto faces a sixth felony related to a pay-for-play scheme involving Kansas recruits.”
Not great. Just have to hope nothing comes back to the school or Self.
The 6th charge definitely has my interest. I remain confident Self wouldn’t be preparing for the season if there was doubt
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@BShark if a robbery occurs at a Walmart, Walmart is involved, but aren’t the target. If an employee of Walmart is involved, then he gets charged, but they don’t hold Walmart responsible.
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The original indictment listed KU as one of the victims although I seriously doubt KU sees itself this way. Recruiting is like the proverbial “making sausages,” you might like the final product but you really don’t want to see how it is done. All programs are aware that top recruits might not be without baggage but I am sure they see it as the cost of doing business and there is always the chance something negative might come out. KU did not play Preston at all and the NCAA cleared Silvio so KU has a pretty strong and defensible case. I will guess that testimony by KU personnel would not help the prosecution case so I seriously doubt anyone from KU will testify and KU will be mentioned only as a potential victim.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
The original indictment listed KU as one of the victims although I seriously doubt KU sees itself this way. Recruiting is like the proverbial “making sausages,” you might like the final product but you really don’t want to see how it is done. All programs are aware that top recruits might not be without baggage but I am sure they see it as the cost of doing business and there is always the chance something negative might come out. KU did not play Preston at all and the NCAA cleared Silvio so KU has a pretty strong and defensible case. I will guess that testimony by KU personnel would not help the prosecution case so I seriously doubt anyone from KU will testify and KU will be mentioned only as a potential victim.
@JayHawkFanToo From your lips to God’s ears!
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Per Dan Wetzel who is covering the trial for Yahoo. During opening remarks Gatto’s attorney said that Oregon offered “an astronomical” amount of money to recruit Brian Bowen. The 100,000$ deal to attend Louisville was to “level the playing field”
Also Under Armor paid $20,000 to De Sousa to sign with Maryland and Arizona offered $150,000 for Nassir Little.
His main goal is to make all of college basketball look corrupt not just Adidas…
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If I am reading this correctly Gatto is admitting that he / Adidas paid Silvio 20,000$ to go to Kansas.
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Woodrow said:
Per Dan Wetzel who is covering the trial for Yahoo. During opening remarks Gatto’s attorney said that Oregon offered “an astronomical” amount of money to recruit Brian Bowen. The 100,000$ deal to attend Louisville was to “level the playing field”
Also Under Armor paid $20,000 to De Sousa to sign with Maryland and Arizona offered $150,000 for Nassir Little.
His main goal is to make all of college basketball look corrupt not just Adidas…
Well IF Under Armor paid 20,000 to De-Sousa , then that automatically takes Silvio’s amateur status away right off the bat doesn’t it? - -I don’t know - -seems like it would , which in the end run the NCAA would then make us forfeit any games that Silvio played in for us right? - - -ROCKCHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Woodrow said:
If I am reading this correctly Gatto is admitting that he / Adidas paid Silvio 20,000$ to go to Kansas.
Well Under Armour paid DE Sousa 20,00 to play for Maryland he said - - So did Under Armour and Adidas BOTH pay De-Sousa? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I am not going to pretend to understand how any of this plays out. Sounds like Gatto’s lawyer came out guns a blazing.
“NCAA rules were broken. We are not going to waste your time pretending these families did not get funds”
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jayballer73 said:
Woodrow said:
Per Dan Wetzel who is covering the trial for Yahoo. During opening remarks Gatto’s attorney said that Oregon offered “an astronomical” amount of money to recruit Brian Bowen. The 100,000$ deal to attend Louisville was to “level the playing field”
Also Under Armor paid $20,000 to De Sousa to sign with Maryland and Arizona offered $150,000 for Nassir Little.
His main goal is to make all of college basketball look corrupt not just Adidas…
Well IF Under Armor paid 20,000 to De-Sousa , then that automatically takes Silvio’s amateur status away right off the bat doesn’t it? - -I don’t know - -seems like it would , which in the end run the NCAA would then make us forfeit any games that Silvio played in for us right? - - -ROCKCHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
They didn’t pay De Sousa, they alledegly paid his guardian. And the FBI has told the NCAA to take a backseat until the trials go through. Silvio’s status can’t be touched
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@BeddieKU23 So then what did his guardian do with the money?
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As I understand it, supposedly Under Armour paid SDS’s guardian. The guardian had to reimburse UA when SDS decided to commit to Kansas and the guardian had to reimburse UA. Allegedly, that’s where Adidas stepped up and either reimbursed UA or the guardian for his payment back to UA. IMO.
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jayballer73 said:
@BeddieKU23 So then what did his guardian do with the money?
No idea, he’s denied ever receiving it.
If there is a paper trail that gets handed off to the NCAA once this whole trial is over, then that’s where Silvio’s eligibility could get looked at.
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BeddieKU23 said:
jayballer73 said:
@BeddieKU23 So then what did his guardian do with the money?
No idea, he’s denied ever receiving it.
If there is a paper trail that gets handed off to the NCAA once this whole trial is over, then that’s where Silvio’s eligibility could get looked at.
True , but come on , I know your not really saying you believe that are you? With so many dirty agents - -and there are PLENTY of Guardians the same way, you can’t really believe that he REALLY didn’t receive that money do you? I hope turns out that he DIDN’T receive any money , but I’m not holding my breathe. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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This tweet just about sums up my thoughts on the matter.
John Broward @ACCRecruitingXP
If Smith Sr was employed by Adidas as an AAU coach just like Bagley Jr @ Duke who cares? Obvious loop hole but everybody did it . UNC paid Tyler Hansbros mother $200,000 for a bogus job while she gave blowjobs on a University private plane . 12:53 PM - Oct 2, 2018
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I have no idea what actually happened. I’m waiting to see what happens here while hoping KU is not in the cross hairs, that everything KU has said publicly is in fact the truth.
All I know is the timeline for how Silvio got to Kansas was definitely not in the normal flow of how KU gets recruits in this day and age. All of us that followed that situation know things happened so fast we had no idea he was even on campus, committed and caused a stir for Maryland fans.
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Well, not looking good. So Gotto’s attorney asked and was told that yes Gotto paid somebody at the very least from De-Sousa’s camp 20,000 dollars to come to KU. Gotto this was done AFTER DeSousa or some body in De-Sousa camp received 20,000 from Under Armor - - for Silvio to play for Maryland. - -So Somewhere in the De-Sousa camp they received 40,000. 20.000 from Adidas - -20,00 from under Armor.
People on some other sites saying not good - -some talking about having to vacate our final four. - Myself I think Silvio is done. - Like someone else mentioned they don’t see how Coach Self could possibly play Silvio now. - -Could very easily have to forfeit any games he played in - -he receiving money there goes your Amateur status quick - -ROCK CHALK AL DAY LONG BABY
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Is Silvio’s guardian on the witness list?
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I’ve said all along that Nike is paying off athletes as well, and lo and behold, that was the opening statement by Gatto’s attorney. They claim they have proof that Bowen was offered 100K by Nike U:
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Gorilla72 said:
Is Silvio’s guardian on the witness list?
He is listed on “Other Relevant Individuals” as is Preston’s mother.
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@1JayhawkLifer Yep. Benny Falmagne for anyone wondering.
Nice to see you here, Lifer.
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Thanks, @1JayhawkLifer. It will be interesting to find out if there is a paper trail to SDS guardian that may implicate Maryland and/or KU.
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Gorilla72 said:
Thanks, @1JayhawkLifer. It will be interesting to find out if there is a paper trail to SDS guardian that may implicate Maryland and/or KU.
very well could implicate them both – One thing for sure is and I reckon you can’t blame him I would be the same way - -very obvious that ol Jimmy Gatt out to try and save as much of his bacon as possible
NOW he doesn’t give a dam. - -I have a feeling and I’m not necessarily taking huge - -but now I’m getting this feeling that because of the way things are looking up in the air and if you noticed - - De-Sousa and KU was one of the 1st things - -1st day - -just got this feeling that YES it just might have some influence - no matter what size portion - -but really feel that this just might be enough to push a couple of people the other way , quite possibly Hurt - - maybe even JRE - -you can take it to the bank GOOD OL ROY BOY and crew will be running this with wildfire - -things gonna get interesting/maybe ugly. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Thanks @BShark ! Just found this site this year and have mainly been lurking, but appreciate any and all info regarding KU.
Your’re welcome @Gorilla72 . This whole court case just strikes me as a very bizarre use of FBI resources, taxpayer money and our court system. Have to agree with the defense lawyer, what the hell are we doing here? It isn’t illegal to break NCAA rules.
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Did everyone see the most recent news?
Im sure you did. Fabulous, right?
Dammit, looks like we might have to vacate wins and or let Silvio go pro. Wonderful. I just hope NONE of the coaches new anything about this.
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@Lulufulu I hate the whole deal. Hope something good comes of it.
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Everything is going to be okay.
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We all know Jeff is a looney bin but he’s not wrong here either, at least so far.
Important to note on those Silvio De Sousa/Under Armour/Maryland allegations: there’s been no evidence or mentions of this happening except for claims by Jim Gatto, former Adidas exec who’s admitting paying players and attempting to paint everyone as doing it.
— Jeff Ermann (@Jeff_Ermann) October 2, 2018
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I agree. I have said for a long time that as long as the income is declared and the government gets its cut no laws are broken. Yes, lots of NCAA rules were broken but no crime committed by the mere act of giving and/or taking money. Now, if the money used for the payments was acquired by non legit means and taxes were not paid then that could be an issue;remember they got Al Capone for tax evasion and not for all the other crimes he committed.
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The creation of fake documents certainly does not help any of their cases. They also have a responsibility to file 1099s for anyone they paid that is not a Corporation or a 501C(3) so that the government know that there is income to collect from the individuals.
It’s really funny, because if they didn’t hide any of this, I’m sure they don’t get caught and nothing is illegal.
But both parties (the parents and the coaches/Gatto) all committed tax fraud. I’m almost 100% certain. But only half of those people are getting charged…
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I hate it when lazy reporters keep writing that money was paid to Silvio when there is zero evidence of that having happened. The money was allegedly paid/given to his guardian, Fenny Falmagne, and there is no evidence that I know that Silvio knew about it. Likely scenario is that Silvio indicated he wanted to attend Kansas which had been his first choice and at that time his guardian told him…we might have a problem since I have told Maryland you would be going there st which time Silvio said fix it and Falmagne went to Adidas.
The question is do you penalize the kid for the dealings of the guardian? More importantly, do you penalize KU who apparently did not know anything about it?
Preston’s case is different insofar as the entire family knew about the payment and publicly, and I will guess privately as well, denied it. KU cannot be penalized for something it did not know…and Billy never played an official game for KU. Maybe MU will demand the exhibition game is forfeited to them because Billy played…
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The question is do you penalize the kid for the dealings of the guardian?
Likely, yes. The NCAA has usually penalized the kid in the end. The Cam Newton rule no longer applies. Look no further then Cliff Alexander as well. In broad terms yes I think Silvio could lose his eligibility if the paper trail is proven to lead to his guardian.
However I have the opinion the middle man Corey Dawkins kept the cash he was supposed to distribute. There hasn’t been any evidence presented showing a paper trail leading back to anyone. I’ll await to see whether that is true or not.
More importantly, do you penalize KU who apparently did not know anything about it?
It would be hard to see that happening without the NCAA having evidence to support the school/ coaches helping facilitate this whole situation. The Billy Preston situation helps KU actually, they found an issue and reported it. That shows a school willing to follow the rules. KU can use other players over the years as well showing a pattern of consistency following compliance. It’s certainly not a lack of oversight issue. KU will have a strong case to support itself if the NCAA tried to give them some sort of violation(s).
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Like couldn’t they have just “hired” Billy’s mom or Silvio’s Guardian to an “AAU Coach” position? This just seems so incredibly dumb to me. And a ton of unnecessary effort on Adidas’ part.
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Well feeling somewhat better. - - - read an article that was talking about the 1st day of the trial and trying to make sense from it:
It states , that the Feds are trying to prove that the Adidas officials including Gatto are trying to defraud Universities , stripping players of their amateur status by paying them with out the Universities knowledge. ( if they get this done that HAS to benefit us for sure right? ) The Article says Gatto has to come up with evidence other then hear say. - -The jury will look at him as a partial witness as he has to much to lose - - ( his freedom ) - what he trying to do is throw his business partners - Coach’s under the bus to save his bacon.
They write is this article - - they wrote so - - -Will the wire taps reveal Coach’s were orchestrating the payments? - - - A prosecutor’s friend says the prosecutor says his guess is NO. He says IF that were the case one of two things likely would of happened. Either the Coach’s would of been listed as Co- conspirators , defrauding the very University for which they work for OR the Feds would realize the schools weren’t being defrauded because the schools knew about the payments and the feds would choose not to proceed with the case. - - – Interesting , man hope this all works out
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Is there precedent of vacated seasons due to ineligibility of students even though it was unknown to the university?
Even so, if it turns out that KU had no knowledge and that the charge is defrauding universities, then would the NCAA enforce a further penalty (vacated season) to a defrauded university? I would assume not as it would be a terrible PR move.
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@chriz Duke didn’t have to vacate anything for Maggette lol
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Time to hear from Nike? Lace ‘em up…
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@JayHawkFanToo Lol @ MU trying to get KU to vacate the exhibition game!!
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If we have to vacate anything, can they wipe our memories of watching the losses, too?
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mayjay said:
If we have to vacate anything, can they wipe our memories of watching the losses, too?
Or, better yet, give us the death penalty–in football?
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Saw this in a Topeka CJ online article about the trial.
“KU’s Silvio De Sousa is one of the players who was involved in such wars, according to Casey Donnelly, Gatto’s attorney. Donnelly said Gatto paid $20,000 to steer the prized forward to KU after “Under Armour had paid for De Sousa to [commit] to the University of Maryland,” according to a Yahoo Sports report.
Donnelly vowed to provide evidence showing Gatto’s payments were made with the knowledge of some highly paid coaches, Yahoo Sports reported.
With regard to De Sousa, Donnelly said Gatto was asked to match the Under Armour offer so De Sousa “could go to Kansas,” but she didn’t specify who asked for the offer to be matched.
De Sousa’s name previously had been connected to the corruption probe, but Donnelly’s statement marked the first time Gatto admitted paying for the 6-foot-9 Angolan to come to KU.”
Every other article I’ve seen said the payment to his guardian for “reimbursement to UA”.
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Barring a much more substantial paper trail, I can’t see the NCAA coming down on anyone. If they do, everyone’s going down with us.
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I would just find it hard to believe KU’s staff, after years of prophylactic suspensions of players where something suspicious came to light (Alexander, Preston), would cavalierly throw caution to the winds and get involved in a double pay-for-play scenario ($ to Silvio or guardian, $ also to reimbuse UA).
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If you get a chance like Mat Tait said , if you get a chance go to Yahoo sports College podcast. - talks about this FBI thing, with Dan Wentzel - - -Pat Forde and some dude named Pete somebody , who the hell knows - -anyways they said or Wenztel as - The defense is coming all out with it they say
They are admitting everything yes we did this BUT - NCAA rules are not in the laws of the Country/ throwing it out that they did nothing wrong. Like Adidas saying HEY we were using Adidas money , trying to get the kid to an Adidas school. The defense is thought or possibly trying to express that is how am I hurting a school by getting them a good player.
Wentzel says if the Feds are trying to win this case based upon by talking about the love of NCAA rules - he thinks the defense has a good shot at winning this case. He almost makes it sound like since this trial is being heard in NY sits up a lot better for the defense then if it was being held in Indiana
They said people just don’t care about a lot of this. They said the fallout of this isn’t gonna be whether Dawkins gets a year in some minimum security prison - -It’s gonna be about the banners forfeited - - Coach’s fired - -wins vacated.
Prosecution brought out in a one line statement how Billy Preston was paid or agreed to be paid 90,000 dollars to come to the University of Kansas. - -Mercy what a mess. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
