UCLA record goes down
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Hawk8086 said:
@jayballer73 I hear what you are saying, but some people would say that Dedric is the best player on the team this year.
We’d have maybe two losses if Dedric could play this year. I say this with confidence.
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KU will ha a lot of experience coming back plus a monster class. Dedrick has already played 2 years and has been at KU for an extra year so he is technically a senior and conference POY candidate. K.J. had a medical red shirt in his first year, played one year and has been at KU for another year so he will be a college senior. A good player is a good player regardless of conference.
You also forgot Charlie Moore who will be a college Junior with one year of good play in a major conference and another year in the KU program.
That is a lot of experience from the red shirt players alone. You also have returning players Garret, Lightfoot, De Sousa and Cunlife for sure, likely Udoka and potentially Vick and/or Newman and it is a very good returning core. Add Grimes, Dotson, McCormack and Agbaji and you have arguably the strongest team in Coach Self’s tenure at KU. It does not even include potential player Langford.
Next season might be the easiest conference title KU will get while this season might be the hardest. KU will be a legitimate national title contender. I would be extremely surprised if KU does not win the conference next season. I just don’t see it that KU will not have experience.
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@jayballer73 2 huge holes to fill!
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@JayHawkFanToo those new guys aren’t just going to walk on the court and replace dg and svi. Practice or Memphis isn’t the same.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Yes they are. I like Svi but Dedric is a better all around player than Svi. Dedric has been working hard on his outside shot too, he knows it is his ticket to the league. And sure Memphis is a slightly different level of play (I’d argue the American isn’t that far off of the Big 12…) but we are talking about averaging 19 and 10 a game. There are THREE players this year that managed that. Bagley, Ayton and Jock Landale (a SR for and excellent St Marys team).
I don’t think an individual player replaces Graham but the burden will be on multiple players and the team will be structured differently next year (more inside shots imo).
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The return of the high/low seems inevitable.
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@BShark Are the Lawsons fast?
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JayHawkFanToo said:
KU will ha a lot of experience coming back plus a monster class. Dedrick has already played 2 years and has been at KU for an extra year so he is technically a senior and conference POY candidate. K.J. had a medical red shirt in his first year, played one year and has been at KU for another year so he will be a college senior. A good player is a good player regardless of conference.
You also forgot Charlie Moore who will be a college Junior with one year of good play in a major conference and another year in the KU program.
That is a lot of experience from the red shirt players alone. You also have returning players Garret, Lightfoot, De Sousa and Cunlife for sure, likely Udoka and potentially Vick and/or Newman and it is a very good returning core. Add Grimes, Dotson, McCormack and Agbaji and you have arguably the strongest team in Coach Self’s tenure at KU. It does not even include potential player Langford.
Next season might be the easiest conference title KU will get while this season might be the hardest. KU will be a legitimate national title contender. I would be extremely surprised if KU does not win the conference next season. I just don’t see it that KU will not have experience.
I think you have to much confidence thinking Newman is coming back - -Vick is coming back. - - Newman I would be willing to bet Ready or not whether it be NBA or oversea’s is a much much better bet then on him returning. - -Vick again whether ready is not will declare - very well end up D league but you just sit back and watch.
True our frontcourt will be strong - - and yes Lawson is good really good but still he is stepping up major going from Memphis to competing against the type /quality players he will face in the Big 12 - a lot of difference in practicing and sitting a year then actual court game time against high profile players - it’s going to take time for him just like any other player.
Really mis guided you think next year will be the easiest year = =that’s just insane to think that I mean your talking about a monster class coming in. - - -AND? - -Ya true we do - -talented - -BUT their STILL FRESHMAN - -no experience at the College level and going to take time - - Trae is a Freshman - you see what’s happened with him --how he has went through struggles - you think these guys won’t be any different - you trying to say that these kids are better then Trae is? - -Sorry if you do then I have to call straight out BS. - -sure their good but other teams Coaches will adapt to their play - -adjust make changes just like teams have with Trae. – -Big difference being able to dominate in High School and to think they are going todo the same from the start in Major College ball. - Those moves they got away with in High School? - well guess what - they try those sames moves in College and a lot of times see what happens - they get matched against other very talented players that isn’t going to work on.
To say next year will probably be the easiest - - -come on be real - get serious that’s just insane - might be the easiest? - - Ok we will see - I hope you right- -but I think I’ll hold judgement till I see the proof. - -these other Big 12 teams just gonna fall down? - -Say oh ok let’s just not play cause we know you had a monster recruiting class so we will just let you name the score - -thanks for stopping by - -lmao - - mercy
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@jayballer73 Just one thing: Trae has no surrounding excellent players to pick up when he is down. We have excellent players coming back, becoming eligible, or entering. All are capable of picking up slack. No comparison.
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@mayjay I actually think there are a few good players on the Trae young team. Krueger is doing them a huge disservice in my opinion.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Good, but not capable of carrying a team that Trae is driving.
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mayjay said:
@BShark Are the Lawsons fast?
Yes. Reports are overwhelmingly positive. I think Dedric is going to be a legit NPOY threat.
Peak Marcus averaged 17 and 7.5. TRob 17 and 12. SR Simien 20 and 11. That’s literally the list of post players under Self at KU to come close to what Dedric did at Memphis, and he has had a year to work on his game and body. I’ve said to pump the brakes a bit on Silvio, Dave and a little bit on Grimes. Dedric though? FULL SPEED AHEAD.
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Charlie Moore has apparently been flying well below the radar. At 5’11”, he may be undersized as a PG and has definitely been recruited over.
Does anyone have information on his red-shirt development year? What about expectations for him during 2018-2019?
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Here is an interesting statistical analysis: If KU’s odds of winning the B12 every year were assumed to be as high as 50%, say, there would have been something on the order of 6 thousandths of a percent chance (.0061%) of winning 14 in a row. If we assumed that there are enough good teams that we only had a 33% every year, the figure is a .00000181% chance of 14 in a row.
The calculation is extraordinarily unscientific since the chances in any year cannot be calculated at all. Team strength varies, the league membership varied over this time, etc. But figuring KU in any given year has an equal chance as the rest of the league combined is a huge assumption favoring KU, and even that calculaton gets only that .0061%, a miniscule possibility.
Our achievement seems only a little more impressive than flipping a coin twice in a row for heads both times (25%) if we are assumed to have had a 90% chance (absurdly high) each year–22.8%.
Again, this is based purely on the stats, not the teams. If all the teams had an equal possibility every year (adopting for simplicity’s sake a number of ten teams every year), that would be 10% to the 14th power, or .0000000000001% chance.
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Gorilla72 said:
Charlie Moore has apparently been flying well below the radar. At 5’11”, he may be undersized as a PG and has definitely been recruited over.
Does anyone have information on his red-shirt development year? What about expectations for him during 2018-2019?
I haven’t heard or read much buzz. My opinion is that like Cunliffe he isn’t a great fit and ideally he never starts. Also like Cunliffe he was taken after mega whiffing in the 2017 class. I’m not sure if taking him was better than taking a flier on a player like Jermaine Couisnard (took a prep year, committed to South Carolina in the 2018 class), Chris Giles (on OU this year) or Jordon Myers (I think he ended up at a KS JUCO, same HS as K Freeze). All of these players would have likely redshirted. Myers might have been a partial qualifier even, but he is talented. The staff obviously opted for Moore instead. I think Dotson and Grimes are MUCH better fits for Self.
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@BShark He chose Kansas thanks to discussions with Sherron. I don’t think Self would get steered wrong by his “best ever guard recruit”.
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mayjay said:
@BShark He chose Kansas thanks to discussions with Sherron. I don’t think Self would get steered wrong by his “best ever guard recruit”.
Sherron has delivered us two guards recently and he isn’t even on the coaching staff yet.
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Sherron = SnacksJr?
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Just a thought… Maybe a way to properly honor the B12 championships is to give it a banner all to itself.
FROM THIS:
TO THIS:
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I understand the red shirt players and backups have already beaten the starters in practice so we know they are capable players with one year of no pressure practice learning the system.
We did not think a single player could replace Frank Mason either and yet Devonté has done a heck of a good job and peaking at the right time. If you don’t think freshmen can play look at the top 3 POY candidates, Ayton, Bagley and Young…all 3 of them freshmen.
I am on record as saying I don’t think Newman comes back and I still think this is the case but it is more likely that Vick and Doke come back and if this happens look at the front line of Doke, Dedrick, De Sousa, K.J., Lightfoot and McCormack and a back court/wings of Dotson, Grimes, Garret, Vick, Ochai and Cunliffe can you think of any other team with that depth? Certainly not in the Conference. The only other conference team that will be improved next season is ISU. TTU loses 6 senior that played at least 20 mpg including candidate POY Evans. WVU loses Carter, Miles and probably Konate and neither team has anything close coming in to replace them. Texas and Baylor will continue to be what they are and squander talent. OU will lose a Young and will drop, KSU, OSU and TCU will stay basically the same or not as good.
In short, the Conference will not be as good as it is this seasonbut KU will be much improved, ergo an easier path to the title than this season.
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mayjay said:
@jayballer73 Just one thing: Trae has no surrounding excellent players to pick up when he is down. We have excellent players coming back, becoming eligible, or entering. All are capable of picking up slack. No comparison.
Only one little problem with that.-- - McCormack - -Grimes - -Dotson - - STILL Freshmen - - you can twist this anyway you want a Freshmen is a Freshmen - -is a Freshmen period. - -Again they can all be the man in High School doesn’t necessarily translate to College - it takes time to adjust to the College game. - -I’m not saying we won’t win the Conference - good chance we do - BUT to try and insinuate that it possibly be our easisest - I just can’t agree with Sorry. - Desousa although some experience - will still be pretty in experienced. - -only experience coming in will be Garett - -Lightfoot - -Lawson’s although they have yet to encounter Big 12 basketball - just practice.
Hey it’s ok though I’m not trying to start conflict - just opinions- all they are. - I just think it’s a little off base–mistake to say that could be the easisest of any years that’s all. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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JayHawkFanToo said:
I understand the red shirt players and backups have already beaten the starters in practice so we know they are capable players with one year of no pressure practice learning the system.
We did not think a single player could replace Frank Mason either and yet Devonté has done a heck of a good job and peaking at the right time. If you don’t think freshmen can play look at the top 3 POY candidates, Ayton, Bagley and Young…all 3 of them freshmen.
I am on record as saying I don’t think Newman comes back and I still think this is the case but it is more likely that Vick and Doke come back and if this happens look at the front line of Doke, Dedrick, De Sousa, K.J., Lightfoot and McCormack and a back court/wings of Dotson, Grimes, Garret, Vick, Ochai and Cunliffe can you think of any other team with that depth? Certainly not in the Conference. The only other conference team that will be improved next season is ISU. TTU loses 6 senior that played at least 20 mpg including candidate POY Evans. WVU loses Carter, Miles and probably Konate and neither team has anything close coming in to replace them. Texas and Baylor will continue to be what they are and squander talent. OU will lose a Young and will drop, KSU, OSU and TCU will stay basically the same or not as good.
In short, the Conference will not be as good as it is this seasonbut KU will be much improved, ergo an easier path to the title than this season.
valid points I agree although saying K-state will be the same I think is off a tad - -only going to be better - probably our challenger next year for sure as they have a legit chance of third maybe 2nd this year if it ends right - better chance at 3rd. - -However they lose no one and will all have another year of experience under their belt they have played us tough and some of the games they have lost this year as they haven’t lost to any of the bottom half but haven’t won against any of the top three - the chances are that won’t happen next year odds are anyways.
But hey America is about Dreams and doesn’t hurt to dream - if that’s a dream of yours and think it can be easy then good for you and I’m not trying to come across as a smart ass I’m just saying that’s your vison - -your dream - then good - you hold onto that - -I just don’t happen to agree that’s all- - Nothing is that easy and won’t be that’s my vison - I feel it will be another dog fight that’s all. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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That would be the first time Squeaky has not lost players in the off-season.
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@JayHawkFanToo - - TRUE - -TRUE. - -was reading that he is in good standing and one reason they only recruiting the one player - everyone coming back -Ol Squeaky has outdone himself lol - even with the year they have had - - people still want him gone lol - doesn’t bother me one way or another - hrll keep him so we can keep whuppin that butt lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo If all come back at KSU, it will be a good test for Brucey…does he make the team better next year? I think he will. I think KSU will be pretty darn good.
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If everybody clicks/gels in time there is no reason this KU team can’t go undefeated in conference play next year. 16-2 would be most likely though, accounting for a couple random toe stubbings.
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Hawk8086 said:
@JayHawkFanToo If all come back at KSU, it will be a good test for Brucey…does he make the team better next year? I think he will. I think KSU will be pretty darn good.
Bruce’s worst nightmare: no excuses.
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“Geez, I can’t believe any real fan is willing to settle for any losses. “Satisfied” with losing? The real standard is undefeated seasons, set by UCLA and Indiana. We are a blue blood and we shouldn’t accept anything less than an undefeated season.”
Okay, now that I have facetiously purged the Perfectionist Fan from my system, reality sets in. I am really looking forward to next year. We might have growing pains, but these guys are all alphas and the staff is legendary at making gears mesh. What a great combination. It will especially be fun getting to watch all the guys whom we have heard about for a couple years, and becoming familiar with their games.
I think it will be exhilarating and extraordinarily rewarding!
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I am not sure we will ever see a season when a team goes undefeated anymore, way too much parity and quality players all over for that to happen. Even the best team money can buy could not do it at UK.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
I am not sure we will ever see a season when a team goes undefeated anymore, way too much parity and quality players all over for that to happen. Even the best team money can buy could not do it at UK.
I see what you did there!
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It’s just hard to say how useful our “experienced players” will be next year compared to our experienced players today who have gained their experience in actual games.
This game is so complicated. Always difficult to guess how players will mesh. We can’t assess that on paper.
We don’t know how new players will react to things like shooting slumps, etc. Just look at Vick. He was looking like a first round NBA draft player before conference play started. It looks like his confidence level moves quickly along with whether he drops a shot or two… or doesn’t.
I remain hopeful for next year for #15. My ultimate trust is in Bill Self and our staff!
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#15 will be hard to attain just because of the roster. The Big-12 will be down, especially if K-St is our legitimate competition.
We really need at least 1 of - Doke, Newman & Vick to return, in that order. 2 of 3 would be basically the situation we ended up in last off-season waiting on Svi & Devonte. If we can get 2 starters to return we have a tremendous amount of talent for next season.
I would really like to see Newman return after the turnaround we have seen from him. I started thinking he didn’t fit here but he’s proving me wrong. Having seen what Frank did last year on the sidelines and now playing alongside Graham I see no reason why Malik wouldn’t consider wanting to do the same next season leading a young but talented bunch. If Malik wanted to get back to being a leader and being the man this is his chance to do so and in my opinion is the only way he’s going to play himself into a NBA contract.
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@BeddieKU23 I expect Doke will be back at this point.
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 I expect Doke will be back at this point.
I hope so, I’ve voiced my reservations on that but the Dedric/Doke bash brother tandem would be something we haven’t seen in years at KU
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The front court is going to be insane next year. KJ would start this year at the 4 and he’s gonna be like the third or fourth guy depending on how Silvio progresses.
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BShark said:
The front court is going to be insane next year. KJ would start this year at the 4 and he’s gonna be like the third or fourth guy depending on how Silvio progresses.
I really like Silvio and he’d start just about anywhere next year. Crazy depth we’ll have
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I wish Silvio had got a bit more run last night. He was solid in the 4 minutes he was out there and UT didn’t have much to offer inside.
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This might have been covered in the game chat but I wasn’t on: The crowd was drowning out a few words, but it sounded like Dickie V said the Streak is in the same category as Joe D’s hitting streak. Apparently to him it is not “just a footnote to history forgotten by everyone except KU fans.”
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This is all a scam. It is not possible that we won the Big 12 title without BP - aka the “savior”. Ask his mommy.
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@JayHawkFanToo You need to add Moore to that back court list, and hopefully fit Langford in there somehow. Either way, that is a loaded roster.
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Good catch…I did have him on my original post…
“You also forgot Charlie Moore who will be a college Junior with one year of good play in a major conference and another year in the KU program.”
