The Octagon of ? - Big Monday - 8 pm - ESPN
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Wade is 6’-10” so probably will be guarded by Doke and Mitch.
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@wrwlumpy I hope he gets a real long contract.
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@JayHawkFanToo Wade is 6-10, and the best option we have is likely Svi at 6-8. I just don’t know if Svi’s discipline would allow him to be very effective. Svi would have to play a smart defensive game, and it might also wear him out running around or into Wade.
The other option that might be the best is Garrett. His 6-4 frame, defensive skills, and length just might allow him to guard Wade, but switch when Wade goes inside. Either Doke or Mitch will have to shut him down in the lane and even double him when possible.
I hope DG has a better than average game. We are in a must win situation after the OU loss. The Purple Kittys are going to want some Crimson and Blue. I also think Squeaky is a bit too desperate at this point, much like Kruger. Once again, a win would be a nice resume piece at this point.
I hope the boyz are ready for a nasty game. The Octagon is going to be in rare form.
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Lets face it, its more fun when you have coaches to hate. We used to have Norm and Jonny Orr and Billy Tubbs. Now we have nameless guys in Lubbock. Huggy is a little hateable, but it is tempered by admiration. But Weber, easy to detest. I will donate to the keep Bruce in Manhattan campaign.
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Wade is a stretch forward that can go outside and hit the 3 and he is a very good shooter from there and he can also score from inside. I know Garret is a good defender but Wade would just go outside and shoot over him. Svi might be a better option but he might end up getting fouled up which is not a good thing and Lightfoot might be the better match up. In any case, Wade is a match up problem for KU.
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Wade killed us in the first game being guarded by Svi. We have no other option unfortunately. I would put Marcus on him when he comes in though, longer arms and just a better defender.
Wade is shooting 53% from 3 at home, have to guard him closely outside.
Devonte has to snap out of this funk he’s in. Missing way too many shots lately and I’m sure playing 40 minutes doesn’t help. We usually play well in Manhattan. Have to survive the first 4
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I’m going to prepare for the game today by asserting my dominance over anything that is purple. Let’s go Jayhawks.
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There are lots of KSU fans locally and none of them are big on Weber. Many want him gone, some just don’t care.
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Looking at the Big-12 games during the week tonight becomes a must win game. Everyone else contending has games they are expected to win going into Saturday. Going 2-0 this week is crucial.
If after Saturday KU could be 8-2…
Tech - 5-3 coming in, home vs Tech (likely win), @ TCU Saturday (toss up).
WVU- 5-3 coming in, @ Iowa St (likely win), home vs Kansas St Saturday
K-St - 5-3 coming in, home vs KU, @ WVU Saturday (can be 5-5 after Saturday and shatter Bruce’s dreams)
OU- 5-3 coming in, home vs Baylor, @ Texas Saturday (Toss up)
Can’t lose tonight
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Someone pointed this out, well probably put up a better fight playing away than we did on home court. Maybe they just need a little venom thrown their way to get that extra edge.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Wade killed us in the first game being guarded by Svi. We have no other option unfortunately. I would put Marcus on him when he comes in though, longer arms and just a better defender.
Wade is shooting 53% from 3 at home, have to guard him closely outside.
Devonte has to snap out of this funk he’s in. Missing way too many shots lately and I’m sure playing 40 minutes doesn’t help. We usually play well in Manhattan. Have to survive the first 4
Geez , thank a lot my friend lol. - -I know you’ve heard mention a zillon times when you have a really good free throw shooter at the line , the announcers mention as much and then he promptly misses? - - Well you just put the ol Jinx - -er - roo on us by saying how well we normally play in Squeaks place lmao - -Thanks lol.
Ya would be nice to see Devonte come out and have a really big game - -solid - were going to need everyone one board. - What a perfect time for us to have a COMPLETE solid game instead of one good half and then a blah 2nd half - -or a blah 1st half and then a really good 2nd half -how about a complete game for a first this season? - -tonight would be really sweet for that to happen.
I was thinking the same thing also - probably Garrett would be the best shot we have to guard Wade - but to bad Garrett isn’t better on the offensive end , kind of a liability - that’s where we have to have SVI on the floor the majority of the time, he just has to player better D - his D has lacked a lot of the times , let’s hope SVI can bring a better game defensively tonight.
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@truehawk93 Regarding Svi guarding Wade, I thought Svi’s defense against A&M was his best defensive game ever. I finally saw him getting after it on defense. I hope that continues.
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I think Graham will play well tonight. Normally these are the type of situations he comes through in.
I like the matchup on offense for Garrett against Wade if that happens. Marcus can get by him, same with Svi. But if we can’t guard him on the other end its not going to matter much what advantage we may have against him
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Silvio will get 4 minutes!!!
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@jaybate-1.0 I think Mitch might get some ‘4’ minutes as a better match-up for Wade.
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@stoptheflop It better improve for tonight, Svi i believe has guarded Wade the the last 3 games and let up over 20 everytime.
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@Jayballer54 No, he put the jinxeroo on Wade by talking about what a high percentage shooter he is at home!
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Rebounding will be huge, I like our chances if we can win that battle.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Silvio will get 4 minutes!!!
you mean GOD can work miracles lol - - would be nice
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mayjay said:
@Jayballer54 No, he put the jinxeroo on Wade by talking about what a high percentage shooter he is at home!
Cool, hope it works for us. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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mayjay said:
@Jayballer54 No, he put the jinxeroo on Wade by talking about what a high percentage shooter he is at home!
That’s what I was going for, glad someone caught on!
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BeddieKU23 said:
Looking at the Big-12 games during the week tonight becomes a must win game. Everyone else contending has games they are expected to win going into Saturday. Going 2-0 this week is crucial.
If after Saturday KU could be 8-2…
Tech - 5-3 coming in, home vs Tech (likely win), @ TCU Saturday (toss up).
WVU- 5-3 coming in, @ Iowa St (likely win), home vs Kansas St Saturday
K-St - 5-3 coming in, home vs KU, @ WVU Saturday (can be 5-5 after Saturday and shatter Bruce’s dreams)
OU- 5-3 coming in, home vs Baylor, @ Texas Saturday (Toss up)
Can’t lose tonight
Nice work there. This is huge. I’ll be interested in the environment there tonight. Word is there’s a pretty stiff directive from General Dick about the F KU chant. If the band hears it, they’re supposed to stop playing. No Sandstorm allowed either. And Snyder has a video pregame to ask the student body not to do it. Could just make the grapes angrier.
I like this matchup other than Wade. We’re going to need a good night from Devonte and Malik. And Doke can’t get into foul trouble. So really, it’s our formula for success all year. We’re the better team, just show up and take care of business.
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The grapes also aren’t very good defensively, only in the mid 90’s on KenPom. We should be able to put up plenty of points.
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I thought they defended us better then any team has all season in the first matchup. Either we made them look better then they are defensively or it was just one of those games they “got up” for.
This should be a game Doke dominates unless he’s in foul trouble. They have nothing to guard him with. The OU game though has changed the entire complexion of how he’ll be guarded going forward. Guys are being instructed to foul as hard as they can or intentionally prevent him from shooting.
Hopefully we’ll have a better idea on how to guard Diarra 2nd time around. He was a big reason K-St was in it at Allen. With some additional film on him now hopefully guys are smarter on how they guard him.
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Barney said:
@jaybate-1.0 I think Mitch might get some ‘4’ minutes as a better match-up for Wade.
First, I think you are right about the match up issue, but…
Question: do you want to play WVU again with Silvio having been cryo-iced for many games, or do you want to keep getting Silvio some game work against some bigs before Thuggy Bear goes to work on Azubuike?
I’m not sure I want to face WVU again with only Mitch having recent meaningful game experience. It kind of defeats the purpose of lengthening the bench with Silvio not to get him some work. Azubuike’s fouling seems to spike, whenever we play physical opponents. If we played no more physical opponents on our schedule on the back 9, then I would be cool with icing Silvio and playing Mitch. But TCU and WVU are the looming Bougainville and New Britain in the path of our Solomons Campaign.
We need serious preparations for rugged terrain, beastly conditions, and smoldering volcanoes with broad shoulders.
Its not that I think Silvio can do much.
Its that I think he is going to have to do something.
And Helmet Hair coaches his guys to play physical, even when they aren’t, so the Octagon of animal pathogen warfare Research is a good place to get him some more exposure to D1 grade combat, so long as desperate Wildcat researchers do not release bugs pathogens engineered to take out Jayhawks as their sole means of winning.
4 minutes is all I’m asking for here.
I think TCU and WVU are going to really work Doke over. One, or maybe both games, Doke will quickly be fouled up.
Doke and Devonte, without credible backups, remain the Achilles Heels of the team.
We can’t do more than Self has been doing for Devonte. Self is giving LaCobra and Malik a decent number to trips bringing the ball up each game, while betting the 14th Consecutive title run on Devonte for 40 mpg.
Silvio needs 4.
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@jaybate-1.0 I think if Mitch gets a few minutes at the 4 that allows a couple more for Silvio for Doke.
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That seems the dynamic when Silvio sees some time.
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Diarra and Brown have played well lately and both can score at times, particularly Brown and they have decent size. If KU can contain them and particularly Wade, the rest should fall in place. Georgia limited them by keeping the score low but I believe this game will be in the 70s.
I am curious if the measures in place will limit the chant. It seemed to be by now a tradition and students are young and stupid and don’t realize or care how poorly it reflects on the school. I imagine it will happen although not as large or intense; best way to kill it is getting a big lead and building on it.
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I was searching for a key player that KU could limit. Wade would be the easy target seems how he’s in the midst of a 5 game stretch of over 20 a game and he always plays well against KU. He’s probably going to get his with the matchup he has, unless we hard double him a lot I see him scoring.
Brown, has averaged 20 at home in conference play. Most of it fueled by one game where he had 38. Georgia held him to 9 Saturday so maybe there’s hope we catch him on another off game.
Diarra is the key IMO. Averaging almost 13 a game at home since he became the starter. We didn’t guard him worth a lick in the first matchup. You take away that 3rd scorer and K-St will have a hard time scoring to keep up (in theory).
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@jaybate-1.0 “It kind of defeats the purpose of lengthening the bench with Silvio not to get him some work”
Bingo!!
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Game experience for Silvio is obviously the best medicine to help him get up to speed. But seriously, he’s looked worse than any player Self has left on the bench in recent memory. Diallo had many a time where he looked very good. When Diallo got more than 10 minutes in a game, he averaged 9 points and 5.4 rebounds (5 games, in 16, 18, 21, 13, and 13 minutes). He only had four games all year with more than 1 turnover. And he was deemed incompetent for further action. We had the anti-Diallo crowd, who suggested his inability to actually play the game. And he never looked half as bad as Silvio has looked.
That said, the thought process is correct I would suggest. Let him practice, get game minutes, and watch him progress. We need an able body down low.
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KSU = Dusty Dinkleman. Look it up.
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@HighEliteMajor 3 straight turnovers against OU (2 walks & an offensive foul on a screen) is not a good recipe for playing time. You don’t have to have positive plays as a backup, just no negative plays.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Barney said:
@jaybate-1.0 I think Mitch might get some ‘4’ minutes as a better match-up for Wade.
First, I think you are right about the match up issue, but…
Question: do you want to play WVU again with Silvio having been cryo-iced for many games, or do you want to keep getting Silvio some game work against some bigs before Thuggy Bear goes to work on Azubuike?
I’m not sure I want to face WVU again with only Mitch having recent meaningful game experience. It kind of defeats the purpose of lengthening the bench with Silvio not to get him some work. Azubuike’s fouling seems to spike, whenever we play physical opponents. If we played no more physical opponents on our schedule on the back 9, then I would be cool with icing Silvio and playing Mitch. But TCU and WVU are the looming Bougainville and New Britain in the path of our Solomons Campaign.
We need serious preparations for rugged terrain, beastly conditions, and smoldering volcanoes with broad shoulders.
Its not that I think Silvio can do much.
Its that I think he is going to have to do something.
And Helmet Hair coaches his guys to play physical, even when they aren’t, so the Octagon of animal pathogen warfare Research is a good place to get him some more exposure to D1 grade combat, so long as desperate Wildcat researchers do not release bugs pathogens engineered to take out Jayhawks as their sole means of winning.
4 minutes is all I’m asking for here.
I think TCU and WVU are going to really work Doke over. One, or maybe both games, Doke will quickly be fouled up.
Doke and Devonte, without credible backups, remain the Achilles Heels of the team.
We can’t do more than Self has been doing for Devonte. Self is giving LaCobra and Malik a decent number to trips bringing the ball up each game, while betting the 14th Consecutive title run on Devonte for 40 mpg.
Silvio needs 4.
Exactly, but yet for some say that we play him four minutes is like throwing the game. - -Umm no throwing the game is more like leaving Doke in in a late game situation when it is in doubt and a Coach refuses to take him out after getting hacked intentional for the 2nd or third time - -that is more like throwing a game - -and being throwed by the Coach/- Playing De-Sousa for 2-3 more minutes on top of the two he has managed right now over the course of the entire game - - -the entire game , not a half is not throwing a game right? - 5 minutes of playing time for a game? - -come on - -how can a player grow with 2 minutes of floor time?
People trying to say practice is where he grows - don’t come at me and try to say practice time compared to game time are close to the same – not even close - -5 minutes of game time isn’t going to decide a game from this guy - -but 2 minutes sure the hell isn’t going to allow him any improvement in his game. I agree 100 % with you 4-5 minutes a game come on he needs this time. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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StLJhawk said:
@jaybate-1.0 “It kind of defeats the purpose of lengthening the bench with Silvio not to get him some work”
Bingo!!
Exactly , couldn’t of said it any better. -the reason he re-classified in the 1st place was to try and help add depth to our roster - -people were all for that - -Coach was all for it, well our roster hasn’t lengthened a lick – Preston - -GONE - - -Walk on also came aboard to try and deepen roster for depth even in clean up time – -not touching the floor - - Sam is non exhistant - never touching the floor - - -Silvio plays TWO minutes - that’s lengthening the bench, he has to be able to see some time - again 4-5 minutes for an entire game - -you think we asking to moVe mountains - -I agree with you for sure. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY-
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@HighEliteMajor YA, I just feel in order to get better you have to play in game conditions to get better not practice - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I wonder if the Doke free throw backlash has Self spooked a little bit. He was making a concerted effort to prepare for the future at the expense of the present and he got hammered for it. Sacrificing a chance at a win to better prepare for the future has never been a part of Self’s style. He tried it once, we lost and he gets a ton of crap both locally and nationally. Human nature says he regresses a little bit into what he knows. Get the win first then worry about the future. That A&M game was closer than any of us are willing to admit. We were only ever a handful of possessions ahead. Even with Graham in for 40 and Silvio barely getting a peak, they got it kinda close down the stretch. I bet we see some more Silvio as time goes by and Self is able to distance himself from the OU fiasco and he feels more comfortable and confident looking ahead.
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Everybody except
@Jayballer54Practice is where you learn to play the game and follow the playbook, game time is where you put that knowledge to practical use. Silvio is just starting to feel what playing with big boys is like and has not even began to grasp the play book.
Until he gets a basic understanding of those two and learns how to execute in real time he CANNOT be effective at game time. His stat line at OU, 1 minute, 3 TOs and 1 PF, that has to be a record. He looks like the proverbial deer in the headlights and he is constantly out of postilion and the team cannot run standard plays when he is in limiting its effectiveness. At this time, other than a couple of early minutes I just don’t see him playing anymore than that. KU has won its conference games by a n average margin of 4 points, think about it…4 POINTS, the margin of error is razor thin and Silvio makes it thinner.
I really like Silvio and I think that down the road he will be a stud, but at this time he is more of a liability than an asset. This is not a knock on him, a few week ago he was playing with HS boys and now he is facing college basketball elite men; unfair to expect him to step in and contribute right away.
Preston would have been in the ideal position to contribute since he had the Summer and pre-season to prepare but obviously that was not meant to be. He would have been the perfect player to guard Wade,
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For your enjoyment…looks like we get Fraschilla tonight…
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I’m glad you brought up this aspect of Diallo, which we both noted at the time, but which I have tended to overlook in my remarks about Diallo.
Diallo was NOT a worthless recruit. He had great physical abilities and it was amazing he was a productive as he was with as few fundamentals as he possessed. Had Diallo stayed a couple years, he would likely have been a lottery pick IMO.
But the season he was with KU, his advisors saw only a fee from being drafted in terms of present worth being greater than discounted future worth.
Thus, KU was getting not only a talented guy that was sushi fundamentally, but apparently also a guy that had advisors that could not buy into the team agenda and the role Self outlined for him. Self needed defense and rebounding. His advisor Luc Mbah-Amoute, if I recall correctly, seemed to think scoring was necessary for branding.
Self quickly found himself with a player that wouldn’t stick around to become the kind of player his advisors wanted to market, and he didn’t really want to play the role of rebounder and rim protector Self crafted for his limited fundies and the team’s needs.
Another thing: Self was still smarting a little from Embiid taking an early powder, so Self might have been a little stricter about what he put up with from Diallo.
Anyway, the point of this digression is to say: Diallo was a large talent, just not a developed OAD 5-star like Duke, or UK, sign and ride to final fours, or rings. Diallo would likely have had to become a TAD to have a big impact on a team at that stage.
We will never know for sure, but given the career that ensued for Diallo, it seems reasonable to think there were issues we still do not understand that constrained development of his sizable talent.
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Silvio has had to join the team without benefit of lengthy fall personal workouts and pickup games with other players. Then he missed Boot Camp and a month of practice before games started.
Graduates HS, had to immediately try to learn team plays, condition, enroll, get used to college, and jump into playing at a level of competition he had never seen before. And in-season practices are much more limited than fall practice, so he is trying to catch up while hampered by fewer chances to do so than a fall starter.
Expecting him to grow into his role quickly without playing is as unrealistic as expecting him to make major contributions while playing at all. Self is obviously thinking long-term by bringing him along slowly and limiting him from being completely overwhelmed. If Silvio can provide a few minutes contributions by March, that is all that can be hoped for.
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Fran knows he has to ride a winner for eyeballs and clicks, whether his son got snubbed as a walk on by Self, or not.
But if KSU opens up a 10 point lead, look for Fran to spit purple hair balls and luxuriate in KU’s problems, as usual.
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@JayHawkFanToo Thank you for addressing to me - -appreciated. - -not sure if you seen the others who are in agreeance with my feel my read but just felt the need to bring it to my attention - -appreciated. - you can talk to the wind all you want your not changing my views , as I’m seeing others the same - - you can talk till your blue in the face and if your gonna try and tell me that 2-3 more minutes over the entire game is gonna to destroy this team cost us games -I can bring you so many counter points about other members on this roster that would cost us the game with their preformances during the game it will make your head spin. - -I don’t buy it for one split second that playing Silvio 2-3 more minutes in a game will cost us games you can take that somewhere else cause you trying to point him out for those 2-3 minutes - you best check the other 6 players and see what they did in a 2-3 minutes stretch that cost us games - -sell that theory somewhere else thanks - -'m not buying. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay Also, not sure if anyone has any idea of his class schedule. I know players have to average 12 hours per semester in order to qualify as full time students but most athletes load up on summer classes, and freshmen in the first semester before prime time hoops comes along. I think this is another big reason we see players take that next step after break. Less school pressure means more ballin. Anyone know if Silvio is in 12 hours right now? Can he push some of those hours and bank on taking summer classes?
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Jayballer54 said:
@JayHawkFanToo Thank you for addressing to me - -appreciated. - -not sure if you seen the others who are in agreeance with my feel my read but just felt the need to bring it to my attention - -appreciated. - you can talk to the wind all you want your not changing my views , as I’m seeing others the same - - you can talk till your blue in the face and if your gonna try and tell me that 2-3 more minutes over the entire game is gonna to destroy this team cost us games -I can bring you so many counter points about other members on this roster that would cost us the game with their preformances during the game it will make your head spin. - -I don’t buy it for one split second that playing Silvio 2-3 more minutes in a game will cost us games you can take that somewhere else cause you trying to point him out for those 2-3 minutes - you best check the other 6 players and see what they did in a 2-3 minutes stretch that cost us games - -sell that theory somewhere else thanks - -'m not buying. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I simply addressed some specific points you brought up, repeatedly, but it it makes you feel better and not picked on, I would be happy to change my post and remove your name.
Why is it if a reply to one of your post stating my “OPINION” you get all out of shape? You state you “OPINION” all the the time including many with which I don’t agree and I don’t take it personally. This is a forum where we all exchange ideas and sometimes we agree and sometimes we don’t…it is the nature of every sports forum.
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@JayHawkFanToo @Jayballer54 The development of a player of course takes both, practice and game conditions. I see practice as forging the knife, but the game action as sharpening it. A player has to get the core foundation, but to really progress, he needs the pressure and speed of true game action. I think we’re all saying the same thing here.
My guess is that DeSousa would not have even seen the court early but for our desperate need for a body (heck, we likely would not even have him here but for the Preston mirage). He is being completely rushed solely out of necessity. It’s a very difficult balance. Self has to balance this in his development because we may likely need him to survive in March. I think @mayjay is right on point here. It’s unrealistic to hope for too much. Just progress.
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@JayHawkFanToo yuck! I sure enjoyed the guys from the big 10! I also heard Coach Fox complained sat that this wasn’t Lawrence! Dumba$$ Fran started that.
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I agree and it is pretty much what I was saying. Expecting him to contribute immediately was and still is an unrealistic expectation.
Considering how thin KU’s margin of error is I can see why Coach Self is not playing him more. Had he gotten here in the Summer, I could see him playing a much larger role but as it is, I just don’t, at least not right now.
I see your knife analogy but before you can sharpen a knife, you have to give the raw metal it at least the semblance of a shape with an edge, otherwise you are trying to hone a piece of metal and just wearing out your sharpening tools with no hope of near term progress. Coach Self put that chunk of raw steel (Silvio) to the grinding wheel (game) and saw sparks fly (TOs, Pfs) and no sharp edge in sight only a worn out wheel (team); he decided to go back to the forge (gym) and pound a shape with an edge under fire (practice) before trying to sharpen it again…makes sense?
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Were those the guys that did the Stanford game? I really liked them, they manage to have a long interview with Frank Mason without taking anything from the game in progress and without constantly trying to promote themselves or brag how smart they were.
Was it Dickitch that had split screens with unrelated videos that made it unwatchable?
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Looks like Doke has listened to Coach Self. His form, at least in practice, is not perfect but it is night and day compared to the previous.
