Can Bruce help us out again?
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What is it that you have against Young? You have been ragging on him since day one. OK, he had a bad game, so what? Does it make him a bad player? No, it just makes him young, inexperienced and human and your comments sound petty and increasingly redundant.
Young is currently the hottest player is college basketball, last game notwithstanding. If the vote for POY takes place today, he might get some competition form Ayton or Bagley or maybe Ferguson but my guess is that he wins going away; hard not to when he is leading Division 1 in scoring and assist while playing in the toughest conference in the country…think about it. Without him, OU is a marginal top 25 team, with him, OU is a legitimate top 10 team. Any one with an appreciation of basketball would value what this kid does, in my personal opinion, of course
Sit back, relax and enjoy watching him play and maybe you will see something you don’t see so far.
This is nothing personal and not intended to start an argument, just an observation and my last words on the subject.
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HawkChamp said:
@JayHawkFanToo he was very inefficient and took bad shot a on multiple occassions. He did not have a good game by any stretch.
It was one of those game for TRAE , like I’ve said there are going to be games a lot of games that he will single handlely win - -other nights like last night he will play a huge part for the reason of them losing - that’s the way it is - some just don’t ever want to acknowledge that though - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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JayHawkFanToo said:
What is it that you have against Young? You have been ragging on him since day one. OK, he had a bad game, so what? Does it make him a bad player? No, it just makes him young, inexperienced and human and your comments sound petty and increasingly redundant.
Young is currently the hottest player is college basketball, last game notwithstanding. If the vote for POY takes place today, he might get some competition form Ayton or Bagley or maybe Ferguson but my guess is that he wins going away; hard not to when he is leading Division 1 in scoring and assist while playing in the toughest conference in the country…think about it. Without him, OU is a marginal top 25 team, with him, OU is a legitimate top 10 team. Any one with an appreciation of basketball would value what this kid does, in my personal opinion, of course
Sit back, relax and enjoy watching him play and maybe you will see something you don’t see so far.
This is nothing personal and not intended to start an argument, just an observation and my last words on the subject.
YOU have NO CLUE - - NO IDEA clueless, I have said over and over - - multiple multiple times about he being a very good player -I just ain’t sucking his nutts like some. - YOU and some others the way you talk about him on the other side of the fence is like he is a GOD - take that crap out of here And when he has good games - -SO WHAT? - and what when I keep hearing over and over about how great he is reduntant. - -see there you go again about ready to orgasm over his OFENSIVE stats, -you play basketball? - -IF you did - -was you like TRAE where you just worried about the offensive end of the court? - - sad man - -just sad.
Don’t try and use the excuse about this being the toughest team in the land either
- come on you can’t seriously wanna try and make people believe that do you? - we all have seen how that turns out - people want to try and play it up saying were the toughest conference then come NCAA time - -other teams beat us in the tourney like taking candy from a baby - nope that doesn’t hold squat thanks.
You gave an outstanding observation - -not buying it - -but outstanding - I have mine - and I will tell you just what you said to me - maybe you can sit back and observe and see things you haven’t seen like oh I don’t no - - -DEFENSE - and now that’s the last I will say about that. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Jayballer54 Don’t forget our own heroes: freshman Chalmers had 5 turnovers in our embarrassing Bradley game, then in the E8 game against UCLA soph Chalmers had 7 TOs while shooting 1 for 8. Back to the freshman year: we started 3 wins 4 losses, and as I recall 5 star Chalmers had something to do with it, including 7 TOs against Az in Hawaii. There were major rumblings that our latest McD AA couldn’t handle PG.
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@JayHawkFanToo Do you look at efficiency too? Because he shot 38% from the field, 20% from 3, and 50% from the line. He also had a 0.5 assist-to-turnover ratio and only collected 2 rebounds. I’m not sure how any sane person would consider that a good stat line, but do your thing.
That being said, I’m not condemning a freshman for having a bad game. He would still get my vote for NPOY right now.
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There’s no doubt young has talent, my question is he allowing Lon to coach him? It was painful to watch. I’m not sure it was so much kstates D or just young out of control. Thoughts? KSU’s offense was clicking.
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He had 20 points, 6 assist which translates to anywhere between 12 and 18 points and 3 steal, which again translates to anywhere between 0-9 point depending on the outcome. So he directly contributed at least 32 and as many as 47 of OU’s 69 total points or 46% to 68% of all of OU’s scoring, you can’t really ignore this.
Compared to what he has been doing, no doubt this was his worst outing of the season, but in context, it is not as bad as it appears at first sight. The kid has huge talent.
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@JayHawkFanToo I don’t care how many points he has if he shoots 38/20/50 percent to get it. And I don’t care that he has 6 assists or 3 steals if he turns the ball over 12 times. He had a bad game, which is okay. But to say it was anything other than a bad game is laughable.
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I think KSU defense had a lot to do with it and once he stared to miss plays and turn the ball over, it snowballed on him and inexperience showed. I will guess Kruger thought it was best to let him play through the slump and hope he would snap out of it but Weber had a good game plan, one that other conference teams will try to emulate when playing OU; I am sure Kruger will work on that.
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See my post just above yours.
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@JayHawkFanToo I looked at it. Wasn’t impressed.
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Not surprised.
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I"m hearing that Trae is wearing down. We know what that is like. I remember Frank being worn down by March. Heck, Frank was built to push it harder than Trae, too.
I try to watch OU when I have the chance. Trae is showing signs of wear.
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“How can you criticize Trae? He had a double-double.” The sarcasm font was being used on that great statement by @gunman. Too bad it was missed by some people.
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@JayHawkFanToo Trae Young flat out had a bad game. 20 points in 21 shots is not a good line.
You want to mention how points he was responsible for, but by that same logic, he also cost OU up to 72 points with those 12 TO’s. Those 12 TO’s are points OU didn’t even get a chance to score so that’s potentially 36 points and had KSU maxed out those TO’s, that’s 36 points for them they could have scored.
OU is a one man team and when that one man has a bad game, OU gets their butt handed to them like we saw last night.
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@JayHawkFanToo so what did Bruce do differently, do you think? On defense. Looked like he switched, but most everyone does that. A lot of his to’s were unforced.
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@JayHawkFanToo “…in context, it is not as bad as it appears at first sight. The kid has huge talent.”
Well, yes, it was just as bad as it looked. But yes, the kid has huge talent. As @Crimsonorblue22 asked, will he allow Kruger to coach him? Which also means, will this be his epiphany in learning how to be brilliant without bullheaded disregard of overly risky ball-handling? And his passing needs to understand his teammates’ skills and tendencies while they learn how to play with the wunderkind–I wonder how many TOs Nate Archibald had before the Kings learned how to anticipate those spectacular assists? (I could not find TO stats for KC years, not until he was with Celtics).
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Honestly think Graham is better to have than Young, Young is good averaging 29.5 points a game but he’s averaging 20 shots to get that. While Graham is averaging 18 off of 12 shots. There FG % is similar with Young a slight bit ahead from 2 and Graham a slight bit ahead from 3. I think Young is great no question, he averages 2 more assists than Graham as well but he averages almost twice as many turnovers. If I was doing a fantasy draft in this league I’d take Graham or Carter before Young, maybe even Brown. Young hasn’t played great since conference play began and I’d look for his numbers to continue to dip down as the season wears on being a freshman and playing in tougher games.
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I did not have access to the game so I did not see the entire game only a number of video clips; Sports Center had a bunch of them. Young likes to have space to operate and even to drive, this is why he takes those long NBA-range 3s with defender farther away. Looks like KSU defense was on his grill and he was also double teamed forcing him to make bad passes under pressure.
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@kjayhawks Graham has a better supporting cast. But, all those shots by Young would not be as big a negative if OU rebounded them for 2nd chance points. Unfortunately, they rank 228th in offensive rebs.
Trae ranks 7th on his team in effective fg %age, which may indicate that he is making his teammates better shooters than he is himself.
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@mayjay I think OU has talent but isn’t being coached the correct way to maximize it.
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@kjayhawks And that is what the downside is of giving a freshman the keys. OADs are expected to be polished and great and championship worthy right off the bat.
Teams used to develop talent, and everyone realized that it takes time. Now, coaches are letting talent develop the team. When the talent has rough edges, it is a rough process.
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@kjayhawks @mayjay Regarding OADs, some coaches are more OAD friendly. I know some here were very adamant that Self is fine with OADs. But the real issue is whether the coach is more system oriented, or if the coach permits more freedom. Great OADs, ones that have it all, can adapt and excel. JJ is the perfect one. Others can’t. Others don’t fit the system. Diallo is one. Diallo might have been fine somewhere else, and should have been fine here, but the threshold of acceptability was not achieved. That threshold is certainly impacted by other options. Cliff was another that struggled to meet Self’s bar. It’s really all coach related, and whether a coach can stomach, or needs, to play the player. Self, I’m confident in saying, values more a player that is less talented but does what he wants, over a high ceiling player that deviates too much from what he expects. This, I think, has always forged the debate. Accept more mistakes now, and have a better player in March. No doubt in my mind that would have been the case with Diallo. Self flat abandoned Diallo. Always a lively discussion.
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If I remember correctly, didn’t the players themselves chose Lucas over Diallo?
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@HighEliteMajor Simply put, Self wanted OADs but has not always treated them as OADs. Some, like JJ and Wiggins, were talented enough that playing them from the beginning was better than the alternative. But they both played a position where more freedom seems to be acceptable, and their roles included both driving and ranging outside, gambling on D for steals, enhancing ball movement side to side, etc. Diallo and Bragg were expected to play that 4/5 spot that for Bill requires precision and understanding of the high/low, setting picks, defending the rim, etc. If they didn’t fulfill that role, he did not want them out there because he did not plan for them contributing any other way, and he believed the team did better when someone who “bought in” was in there.
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Oubre was not a starter at the beginning of the season, became one, had a solid but unspectacular season, was drafted and he is doing rather well in the League. Just sayin’…
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Brooks went to see NO play awhile back and he said diallo was still wandering around, looking lost. I know cheick thinks highly of Self because he was at his HOF induction and I saw a pic of him at AFH this year. Kid just needed more time in school. Wish they would change the rules on handlers!
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Agreed. He is just getting occasional garbage time and not getting better; he might be better off getting more playing time in the G-League.
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@mayjay My preference is that we not take OADs that are risks of not fitting what Self wants. Seriously, though, why would a player pick Kansas if that player did not have an intention of doing what Self wanted? It’s not a secret. And recruiting is not an exact science, of course. Diallo was a late spring signing … no other real options. But the only harm is the OAD drama and internal impact on the team, to the extent that is detrimental. It could have been zero internally. Externally, of course, the OAD stuff is too much. Everything is child’s play next to the Wiggins over-hype. Give me a JJ every so often. It will cool my whining about OADs a little.
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drgnslayr said:
I"m hearing that Trae is wearing down. We know what that is like. I remember Frank being worn down by March. Heck, Frank was built to push it harder than Trae, too.
I try to watch OU when I have the chance. Trae is showing signs of wear.
Just a hunch but 3 days before his bad game against KSU he played 40 of 45 minutes in their overtime win against TCU. Have to think maybe that effort took something out of him as well as his young/inexperienced teammates. Watching last nights game looked like a typical team that struggled in a tough environment on the road, Trae pressed to make plays and that made things even worse for him and his team. KSU looked hungry to put their loss to KU behind them. They definitely seemed to have the momentum on their side.
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The two teams that have slowed Trae down have been able to play physical defense against him. Carter of WV did a great job on him weeks back and last night K-St had a great gameplan which they executed. K-St defended KU on Saturday as well as any team has all season so I don’t find it surprising they were able to force Trae into a bad game.
What we are seeing with OU is the outcome of the games they play is so reliant on how well Trae plays. It’s not surprising seems how this was an 11 win team last season without Young and Manek (who’s quickly become their 2nd best player). His average game can win them games, his elite games have given them big wins but the games he struggles the rest of the team seems to suffer tremendously because of that. Given his high usage and being the focal part of the team that does explain a big part of it.
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@kjayhawks Trae Young doesn’t have nearly the supporting cast that Graham has. Put Young with a group as talented as what Graham has around him and Young probably averages 3 or 4 more assists per game and 2 or 3 less TO’s per game. He is a great player, but when you’re the only good player on a team, it will wear you down because your team is dependent on you to do everything.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 are we sure he’s the only good player? They gave us a heck of a game last year. I think Kruger could do much better by including the “team”
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Latin started on the FF team, tho they never even attempt to get him the ball. James is a returning starter that is shooting better than both Vick and Newman while have more steals. Manek their other freshman is averaging more in every column than Newman and Garret besides assist. They are plenty talented enough IMO. They don’t have a Doke but other than that they can match up really well with us.
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@BeddieKU23 I think the prior game just made him try too hard. Too much in hero mode.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Not the only good player, but he would be better if he shot less and passed more, learning to move without the ball to facilitate and not just to shoot if it should come to him.
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@kjayhawks OU won 11 games last year without Heild or Young and finished 9th out of 10 teams. Trae Young’s supporting cast is not that good no matter how much you try and spin and justify their other players.
OU ignores Lattin for the same reason KU ignored Lucas last year, they’re not good offensive players.
Their on court results speaks for itself, Trae Young is their only good player. The rest of their supporting cast won 11 games abd finished 9th, that’s what you’re trying to defend as a good supporting cast.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 So a young team as they were a year ago that barely lost to us twice by the way, can’t get better? Both Manik and James would get minutes, maybe even start for Newman on this team.We have had several guys not be great as Freshmen and grown into good players. I’d say that most players get better every year in our sport.
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I swear we all talked how much better OU would be this year, being so young and getting better last year.
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@Jayballer54 just heard the WSU SMU game will not have announcers at game. ESPNu at 6. Marsha not happy!
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@Jayballer54 just heard the WSU SMU game will not have announcers at game. ESPNu at 6. Marsha not happy!
hmmm, that is kind of what it was like last night at the K-State game. - I mean they were announcing but yet it just didn’t sound right you know what I mean?
The background noise and different things were odd. - -I had heard in the past that sometimes they do this but not be actually at the game - -kind of weird lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@kjayhawks They’ve improved from garbage to bad. Take Young off that team and they’re still near the bottom of the Big 12.
KU would’ve likely played them close even without Young because of the nature of KU this year. KSU and ISU are go ing to finish bottom third of the league and KU barely beat each of them at home.
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@Crimsonorblue22 agree with you. It would serve Lon well to shorten the leash on Young and play more team oriented ball. Hoping he doesn’t figure that out til we’re done with them though.
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@Jayballer54 Gotta hand it to you! Apparently ESPN has been doing it for several years. Their ombudsman wrote a column in 2016 complaining about the fact that they do not tell the audience when the announcers are remote. Read it–it goes through all the considerations and compares how it works for different sports.
We get on site announcers all the time, from what I can tell. Fran, Jay, Dick, etc. Helps to be a blueblood and in the mix every season!
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Apparently it is a very small number of events and likely none involving ranked or blue blood teams or major conferences.
I am surprised why they just don’t pick up the audio feed of the local broadcast team, a small fee and the publicity probably would do it.
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@JayHawkFanToo WSU game
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@JayHawkFanToo WSU game
It was that way at the K-State - - Ou game too. I don’t think they were actually there. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Not blue bloods, not a major conference and Marshall cancels out ranked…
