Texas Down, Four to Go Until Morgantown
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I agree on Sam. The kid is good, really good. We just have too many guards. Although, Coach might want to think about giving him some more minutes regardless so our 35+ minute guys can get a breather every now and again and maybe reduce their chances for getting “knicked up” towards the end of the season when we really need them on court.
Garrett over Newman. I doubt it’ll be a thing every game. Coach Self is probly just doing what he has always done. Bit of “toughening box” Newman is good, really good. I expect that he will start more often than not.
Their biggest problem, to my untrained eyes, against the press is getting it in bounds. It takes them longer to in bound it than to break the press down. We don’t have Frank anymore. I think they’ll get better at press breaking. They’ll have to!
Udoka IS a beast, that’s no stuff. But Bamba has him beat on quite a few things. I’m not trying to jump on the Texas band wagon. I’m just merely stating that Bamba is better than Dok at this point. I’m pretty sure Bamba is a top 3 lotto pick. Dok still has a bit more work to do.
I loved our zone against Texas, I loved our trey shooting. MY GOD SVI can really knock it down! I think he may have went unconscious a time or two.
I know I saw Udoka block AT LEAST one shot yet he did not get credit for it in the box score… WTF!?
We gotta win at WVU. Freekin Huggy bear just called OU the best team in the Big 12. I mean, he might be right, but still. Its insulting.
- “Frank Mason - I know, the Texas game is what I’m talking about. But he got his second start tonight. Best PG in KU history. Hang his jersey in the rafters now.”
Yep. Do it.
Rock Chalk!
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@Gunman that’s why the ASU game is so frustrating to me. He is a matchup advantage against everyone not named Bamba and Bagley and we barely used him in that game.
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@HighEliteMajor Thanks for expanding on press break and breaking strategies. Quite informative.
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HawkChamp said:
@Gunman that’s why the ASU game is so frustrating to me. He is a matchup advantage against everyone not named Bamba and Bagley and we barely used him in that game.
At least the team seems to be feeding Doke more lately.
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@BShark yes and it will make us a better team going forward. Then with Billy and Silvio…
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@RockChalkinTexas Loved your report. Hope all is well in Austin.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Has Newman made one play all season where you were like oh wow that’s nice? I watched him in particular last night and he picks and chooses where to exert effort. Some plays his defense is stellar, some plays offensively he makes the right read, pass etc but there is very little consistent effort in his game. If I was Self I’d be trying figure how to motivate him.
I had the same thought last night, so I started looking for it. There was a decent dunk in transition I appreciated. But it was the expected play. Between this thought and I think @cragarhawk throwing out the Langford comp and the knowledge that 2 top 10 guys are coming in next year I’m concerned Malik is smack dab in the middle of the triangle of stress, injury and despair, and is far far away from being what he could be. I think he might get be a really good player I just don’t know that it can happen at Kansas.
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I STILL have faith in Malik.
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@HawkChamp He’s not the same player.
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2 plays in particular stood out in the game in regards to Malik against Texas.
I’ll start with the bad, the play where he drove to the hoop and bamba swatted the ball into the 15th row of the stands, doke is standing there all alone for a dunk but Newman still decides to try and float a shot over him. Selfish play in my honest opinion. Thats not a player buying in to the team. He knows Bamba is going to block it but he does it anyway. That would have been a oh WOW play.
Now to the other play. Newman is guarding the pg at the top of the key. Bamba comes for a ball screen, malik fights through showing great lateral quickness, even though malik gets through the screen well our defender hedges in to stop penetration, at this point Roach is open for a 3, Newman correctly sprints to him instinctly to contest the shot and forces a bad miss that leads to a 3 pointer in transition at the other end. It was a great display of defense leading to offense that can be quickly forgotten if your not looking for that detail
Obviously he’s not playing great and there could be a bunch of reasons why. All we can hope is he finds a way to turn it around
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@BeddieKU23 There’s another Malik play that stands out to me. Tejas makes the bucket, and presses. Malik gets the inbound, and tries to dribble through a double team instead of passing to our wide open player standing near half court. He waits until the double team is closing in on him, then tries to pass over them, which gets blocked. As I recall, that was the only turnover their press created. If he handles the press the same way against WVU, we’ll get slaughtered.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
I STILL have faith in Malik.
I do too…he will shake this off. Maybe not all league…but he will be better. I love his smooth drives to the basket…he needs to do that more often.
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We need Malik healthy and playing closer to his potiental for ku to be a major threat. Heck, we need the entire team playing close to its potiental for six games to have a chance to win it all. One bad shooting nigh5 and it’s all over. This team doesn’t hang it’s hat on d.
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dylans said:
We need Malik healthy and playing closer to his potiental for ku to be a major threat. Heck, we need the entire team playing close to its potiental for six games to have a chance to win it all. One bad shooting nigh5 and it’s all over. This team doesn’t hang it’s hat on d.
It’s kind of amazing the record is as good as it is with Malik being close to a non-factor. He was supposed to be one of our top 3 players.
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@BShark @dylans Malik hasn’t been great but he hasn’t been that bad, averages 10.4 ppg (5th on team) and 4.8 rpg (4th on team) all while shooting a sub par 44% from the field and 36% from 3. But he his shooting 94% from the line, he needs to work on his shot and knowing when to pass for a better (averaging just .5 assists per game) shot. Most of his issues are correctable, he’s probably not ever gonna be the top 5 recruit he was rated but he is a very important player for this team going forward. I think you’ll see him start to play better here as the season keeps going. Having an ankle issue and a concussion definitely hasn’t helped, his worse game was after his concussion vs Nebraska but we don’t beat UK without him and Texas would’ve been tougher without him.
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Garrett is starting again, idk if that has been posted yet.
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@BShark figured he would, coach Self said Doke and Newman both wouldn’t practice today. If Garrett gets his shot figured out he would probably always start but shoot 41% from the floor, 19% from 3 and 58% from the line are what’s hurting his minutes. He can guard and pass good but the defense doesn’t have to respect his shot at all.
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I mentioned that in another post that malik could be the type that is a turnover machine against press virginia
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What is malik’s potential? If he’s not a different malik by the end of the of the Xmas break he is who he is. Garrett starting now says Self is clearly trying to motivate him by playing a freshman over him
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@BeddieKU23 I’ve been in the Garrett camp as far as starting him over Newman for a while now (no secret there). Given our four out/one in scheme, the ability of the other three guards to score, and the luxury then of having Newman off the bench, I’d have Garrett as the starter. Makes perfect sensse.
Garrett works in a lot of lineup contructions – but let’s fast forward to next season, playing conventionally (3 out/2 in). Let’s say we don’t get Langford. Doke and Vick turn pro. We start Lawson/DeSousa down low. I would have to really think about starting Garrett with Dotson and Grimes. If the other choice is Newman or Cunliffe (assuming he might score better), I’d likely go with Newman or Cunliffe. Another way Garrett might work in is if we are a bad a**, defense first, possession valuing team – what we might say is a real Bill Self team*. I think Garrett has a higher upside than Releford, but it’s a possible comparison. I expect Garrett to be one of our best players by his junior season.
However, as we saw last game, Newman was in late. Game situations will dictate. Newman’s a much better free throw shooter than Garrett. And he seems to handle the ball better, at least from my eye.
Another thing to note – Garrett’s PER has continued to go down. But his box score +/- is still high, and solidly higher than Newman.
*Did anyone see the quotes from after the Texas game? Self saying we might shoot 40 3 pointers; DG saying Self is telling them to shoot anytime they are open? Who is this Bill Self, anyway, and what did he do with the real Bill Self?
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 I’ve been in the Garrett camp as far as starting him over Newman for a while now (no secret there). Given our four out/one in scheme, the ability of the other three guards to score, and the luxury then of having Newman off the bench, I’d have Garrett as the starter. Makes perfect sensse.
Garrett works in a lot of lineup contructions – but let’s fast forward to next season, playing conventionally (3 out/2 in). Let’s say we don’t get Langford. Doke and Vick turn pro. We start Lawson/DeSousa down low. I would have to really think about starting Garrett with Dotson and Grimes. If the other choice is Newman or Cunliffe (assuming he might score better), I’d likely go with Newman or Cunliffe. Another way Garrett might work in is if we are a bad a**, defense first, possession valuing team – what we might say is a real Bill Self team*. I think Garrett has a higher upside than Releford, but it’s a possible comparison. I expect Garrett to be one of our best players by his junior season.
However, as we saw last game, Newman was in late. Game situations will dictate. Newman’s a much better free throw shooter than Garrett. And he seems to handle the ball better, at least from my eye.
Another thing to note – Garrett’s PER has continued to go down. But his box score +/- is still high, and solidly higher than Newman.
*Did anyone see the quotes from after the Texas game? Self saying we might shoot 40 3 pointers; DG saying Self is telling them to shoot anytime they are open? Who is this Bill Self, anyway, and what did he do with the real Bill Self?
Been in the same camp as far as Garrett starting he has the intangibles that Newman doesn’t possess besides an occasional 3 BALL.
Do you think his PER has gone down because of his lack of scoring?
Telling that he prefers Newman in late but it’s nothing new for self with regards to an upperclassmen to a freshman
The more minutes Marcus gets the better for next season
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@BeddieKU23 “I said before the game, ‘We’re going to shoot 35 threes.’ First it was 40, then I said, ‘No that’s too many. Don’t shoot 40.’ I said we’d shoot 35 threes,” Self repeated after the Jayhawks knocked down 17 threes (most ever by a KU team in a conference game) in 35 attempts in a 92-86 victory over the Longhorns before a crowd of 15,082.
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Jesus? First Mitch now Newman. Is there any KU player worthy of playing this years team?
Newman’s problem? He was taught from a very young age that he was the man. Sure fire NBA player. He’s finding out there is no sure fire thing. Work and more work is what is needed.
He’ll be alright.
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Damn Graham you just don’t finish at the rim like Mason. Maybe you need to sit on the bench? Maybe you need to red shirt?
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@BeddieKU23 I think you’re right. It seems that the decrease in rebounding and steals, possession changers, may be big contributors, plus shooting %/scoring decreasing. He should be a 16-17 PER guy by the end of the season. I liked hearing DG talking about how he was encouraging him to be aggressive. But I also appreciate the freshman taking on a complimentary role.
It is interesting that Garrett starts and Cunliffe plays zero minutes.
@DoubleDD What is “alright” to you when it comes to Newman? What you’ve seen so far?
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Last game he went after his missed shots. He knew He missed his shots. This kid is the only kid we have that can get to rim when ever he wants. He just has to learn to finish. And that is a fact.
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DoubleDD said:
Last game he went after his missed shots. He knew He missed his shots. This kid is the only kid we have that can get to rim when ever he wants. He just has to learn to finish. And that is a fact.
Finishing will come more consistently when he isn’t thinking about a hurt foot. That comes with more experience of learning to play with it, and hopefully as it gets better, too. He still has less than one season actually playing in a system as demanding as Self’s. I see improvement in game after game, and I believe we will see him as equivalent to, say, Jr-year Selden by the end of the year.
The problem for most of us as fans, I believe, is that we are always tempted to make final predictions and conclusions based on small sample sizes–usually just the last game. The season needs to play out. There is little reason to give up on anyone or think we have seen anything near full capability by this limited point.
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Thanks!! GREAT stream of consciousness game eyewitness report- awesome
Can you go to all the games and report? (There must be some Buckets petty cash to help you with expenses
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@Bosthawk Maybe @jaybate-1-0 can get a shoe company to sponsor me and I would gladly go to all games and give a first-person account. Get working @jaybate-1-0!
Happy New Year
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Rock Chalk!!
(Note: all fiction. No malice!)
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@mayjay I know what you’re saying – be patient. I agree. But I don’t think the recent hurt foot has anything to do with what we’ve learned from Newman so far. What we have with Newman is one year at MSU, a full year to practice and assimilate within Self’s system, and nearly half a season playing games in Self’s system. Newman has not had a hurt foot all season. This was just an issue.
And more importantly, what Self has learned – and Self has chosen to start a freshman over a guy that has nearly 2 1/2 seasons in college ball. Whether its temporary, or permanent, I think that tells us something.
Does Newman performance warrant this change? Maybe not. But I suspect the word “selfish”, or some derivation, is a discussion point. Or, perhaps, it’s completely benign and it’s all about Garrett’s defense. But I doubt it. Selden’s Jr. season is a reasonable expectation, but I don’t see a guy on par with that, at the same point in the year. But there is lots of time to go. He could of course break-out at any time.
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@HighEliteMajor Kansas should’ve been N. Champs that year. The team has been in decline since. However, i look for a big resurgence beginning next season.
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@HighEliteMajor Newman gets the rebound, and races down court. He has Devonte ahead on his right, Vick on his left, and three Raiders waiting in the middle. He keeps the ball himself, puts up a prayer 5 feet away from the basket, gets blocked, and looked exactly like Tyshawn at his worst. I think it’s time to free Sam.
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@KUSTEVE I was not super optimistic on Cunliffe coming in, but I really like what I see. In fact, I think he’s hustled and done well on defense. He has a very nice outside shot, and has some bounce. I hesitate to appear this critical in a question, but does Newman look like a Bill Self player on the court? I don’t see it at the moment. I see a guy itching to “get mine”, to quote the former point guard you refer to.
Newman has had zero assists in the last two games combined.
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@HighEliteMajor I think Newman is a selfish player because that’s what he had to be at Mississippi St. He was also far and away the best player on scout team last year so he’s had a lot of experience being a ball dominant player his first two years in college. Now he’s in an off ball role with a lot of talent around him and he hasn’t made the switch mentally that he doesn’t have to do everything and that he needs to defer to other players.
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Newman looks like he is still thinking out there. A guy Self would sit at this point in Big 12 play. Some like this have come back strong(Oubre), others have faded away.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I’d be good with him being “selfish” if he was any good. If Andrew Wiggins had been selfish, we would have won the NC. Or Josh Jackson.
But selfish when you’re “meh” is just stupid. He should be riding the bench.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I think that is a very friendly spin. He’s had over a year in Self’s system. That seems like enough time to purge – unless we have DNA issues.
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@HighEliteMajor Do you think a year on the scout team is the same as live games? He is less than 15 games into real games under Self.
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I know your question was directed at HEM but I wanted to chime in.
Are we being too critical of him just 15 games into his KU career? I thought that but then when I watch him play I don’t see the guy he was acclaimed to be. I don’t see where it changes with him. I don’t really think the next 15 games will be much different then what we’re getting currently.
Newman was probably the most coveted transfer last year. We heard a lot of good things about him from players and Self during the season on his progress. He seemed to say all the right things in interviews etc about maturing and becoming a better player. He did really well in Italy, showed out well at camps etc. So what gives? We get the most coveted transfer with a year of D-1 ball under his belt, tons of HS accolades, reputation as a scorer etc and 13 games into the season he loses his starting spot. So what gives? Has he checked out? Is he playing with another injury that’s derailing his potential? This is all from a guy we expected to be OAD here, was expected to be OAD at his first stop. I see a lot of “me” ball from him, the same mentality he had growing up. Maybe he was just overrated all this time. It’s certainly starting to look that way… Just my 2 cents
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Yes I think he was obviously overrated. He looks eerily similar to Elijah Johnson, minus explosive hops, and I dont know how he was considered so high coming out of high school. The thing is if he doesn’t act like an idiot and stays for two more seasons he can develop into a solid player. We just need to lower our expectations and look at him like the sophomore that he is.
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@nuleafjhawk The selfish thing that you’re referring to is the guy that’s selfish because it benefits the team. Not deferring. I JJ passing, and creating, and never had one hint that he was not a team player.
@BigBad Do I think practice action is akin to game action? Kind of funny you ask me that. The guys who may recall prior debates would chuckle. So no, I don’t. I do understand your point. Games forge a player where practice cannot. No doubt. But Newman’s issues are mental, his thought process, his approach. This I think is more controlled by conscious decision making. It’s not a comfort thing. It’s not a “get used to the environment” thing. It’s not a speed of the game thing. It’s not a “crazy crowd, big arena” thing. He’s already played an entire season as a starter. His is quite simple it appears. He wants to be “the man” but his production is much less than the normal “the man.”
He has had zero assists in the last two games combined. Let this sink in … 2.2 assists per game as the second ball handler. DG was 4.4 last season. Josh, as the 4, was 3.0. Good grief, Svi is at 2.6.
And if you think the 2.2 is an aberration, based on a new environment, guess again. His assists per game at MSU? 2.2.
But I have absolutely NOT given up on the guy. Things can change. We need him.
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@HighEliteMajor I would argue he’s actually spent much less than a year in Self’s system. He was running the scout team during his transfer year, he wasn’t running KU sets, he was running opponent plays on both ends of the floor. He also likely was running the point on scout team instead of playing off the ball like he is now.
Preparing for the Italy trip would’ve been the first time Newman was really running KU sets with the first team outside of watching some film study sessions.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 He’s spent a whole lot more time at KU than Trae Young has spent at OU, and he seems to have figured stuff out pretty quickly. Newman is not the b-ball player that he was hyped up to be.
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@nuleafjhawk And yet, playing with the 1st team, they’ve played about the same amount at their current schools.
I’m not saying Newman is going to end up living up to his hype, but I think it’s also be underestimated how little time he’s actually spent running Self’s system which everyone can agree is a fairly sophisticated system which is why we don’t see many freshmen or new players have an immediate impact for Self.
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@HighEliteMajor He can’t get past trying to out-athletic players, and trying to do it all himself. Worked in high school. It doesn’t work now. He is not a cerebral player. It doesn’t mean he can’t get better, perhaps much better. I don’t think the word selfish fits as much as confused…perhaps baffled. Right now, he is simply not grasping the college game. IMO, Frank had similar problems at times early in his career, and that turned out very nice. Cunliffe can defend, and can shoot. Our margin of error is so razor thin, I don’t see why we don’t simply give Cunliffe a real shot. 2nd half Svi took a dump last game. Vick was M.I.A. Put in Sam, Coach.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 That’s a really good point. Can you imagine what a Josh Jackson, Andrew Wiggins - even Selby would have done in a program like OU’s ? Don’t get me wrong, I hate Oklahoma in all sports, just using that as an example because of Young, Hield and many others they’ve had - even Bigger Mouthfield in football - they do a much better marketing job on the big names that they land in their respective sports.
