Perspective
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Doke had almost twice as many actual shot attempts as he made, but nearly half resulted in fouls so they don’t show up in the box score.
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mayjay said:
I am unhappy people are dissing Mitch so much. He was there, he played, he got blasted around, he was horribly outsized and overmatched, but he did make 2 nice plays that prevented easy inside UK baskets.
Plesse stop saying only 6 players. Or just give up the “team” concept entirely if you are so dismissive.
It is what it is he didn’t belong on the court against UK. He played 6 minutes, so my guess is Self felt the same way. I’m sure he will play more against South Dakota State. He is a great kid that loves KU but was put into an impossible situation last night.
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@mayjay Coach Self said basically 6 in post game.
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mayjay said:
I am unhappy people are dissing Mitch so much. He was there, he played, he got blasted around, he was horribly outsized and overmatched, but he did make 2 nice plays that prevented easy inside UK baskets.
Plesse stop saying only 6 players. Or just give up the “team” concept entirely if you are so dismissive.
He’s more apart of the team right now then our bench warmer wearing glasses
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@cragarhawk I saw that after my post. “Basically 6” means who got playing time, who is a cog for set plays, etc. “Only 6” means the 7th was nothing. Mitch wasn’t much, but he occupied a role and got beaten up for the team.
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cragarhawk said:
@mayjay Coach Self said basically 6 in post game. Thank you, you beat me o the punch. - -Coach Self even said that exact same thing - -it IS NOT a knock against Mitch it’s just a fact - -at this point he can’t compete against these kinds of teams - he needs major work with Hudy - just gets pushed aside. - Like was mentioned just as soon as Doke went out - Kentucky attacked Mitch - -took it right at him - Like B-shark says it is what it is - I like the kid I really do, but he is for sure our 3rd option and if De-souse gets he Mitch will be our 4th option. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay sorry. But that’s just taking exception to a few different letters of a couple of the same words. I think everyone understands the concept of why Self said 6 and why ppl here are saying 6. Whether it’s only or basically. Yes Mitch was there and yes he was on the floor. But also was very ineffective largely. Coach Self could have meant that very same thing in my opinion. Doesn’t have to mean anyone is slamming anyone. It can just be the truth in this case
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If Mitch had made that layup/dunk attempt he fumbled that would have been a nice play for him. He did have some active moments defensively I thought and we didn’t lose anything with him on the court. It’s not like we threw it in the post regularly anyway. Kid needs minutes just as much as anyone if he’s going to be expected to get rotation minutes when needed
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What really surprised me and there were some others I talked to and thought would happen - we talked before the game - thought we would see KU play some zone to avoid foul trouble - off set UK’S length. – NOT ONE SECOND OF ZONE - -WOW - -love it shows how much I know, - like we said ugly win but a win is a win - whether one point or 30 points all that matters is we had more point then that OTHER team lol - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Also, I’m a big fan Mitch Lightfoot. No question. Exactly the type of player I love to see. And I hope we all see him become very effective in the years to come.
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@cragarhawk And yet the coach didn’t say it the way y’all are, did he? So maybe the difference is important. I would think Mitch thinks he played and would not have appreciated a comment from HCBS that totally disregarded him.
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I bet you they haven’t practiced it.
That would be a very telling truth about where he thought his team was defensively if they were going to zone. He wants his kids to defend M2M. Conceding to a zone would all but tell you he thinks they stink
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@jayballer54 I think we played a 2-3 near the end for at least a few seconds.
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@mayjay you say y’all are as though I said it. I did not. I simply said that CS said it. And that I understand why. And am not the least bit upset about it.
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@cragarhawk I was addressing the people who were the subject of my first comment, to which you replied, thus the reply to you.
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@BeddieKU probably haven’t or not very much. - But that wouldn’t be what that meant at all. - when you have only 7 players and you need to protect an already thin front line - -means your trying to protect a very important piece of that seven - -not that you stink, it would of been a very logical decision, not a knock against the defense - you improvise - -like they say adapt and overcome. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU probably haven’t or not very much. - But that wouldn’t be what that meant at all. - when you have only 7 players and you need to protect an already thin front line - -means your trying to protect a very important piece of that seven - -not that you stink, it would of been a very logical decision, not a knock against the defense - you improvise - -like they say adapt and overcome. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yeah I get your point. With 7 guys it would make sense to have a defensive wrinkle.
They just had no time to plan for Preston being a repeat idiot. They found out last minute which didn’t give them any time to adapt what they already scouted and game planned.
Self knew the stakes coming in, 8 kids til December. I’m sure he didn’t plan on playing in November with 7 so I’m sure zone defense was not apart of the plans when we were practicing in pre-season.
My point was that I would take us playing zone this early as a sign that he didn’t think highly of his kids to defend the way he wants. If we are going forward with 7 for a while then I agree he should definitely be looking at practicing it because he’s foul trouble away from playing walk ons. There’s a give and take with zone’s especially if you don’t practice it. You can get lucky using it as Self has done over the years.
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So, perspective. It was a win. And, a win against UK is always welcome. We won ugly, which always appeals to HCBS. We won when we couldn’t hit the broad side of the barn. We won with a very short bench.
On the other hand, we were playing a team that started 5 freshmen - plus next two top minutes guys were a frosh and sophomore. A team that struggled to win in its first two games, including barely escaping at home (against an admittedly really solid Vermont team. A team that doesn’t really have a quality point guard and that doesn’t shoot well from outside. Others may have a different point of view, but I don’t think anyone played particularly well for the Hawks and a couple of the guys had really bad games. Looking at the big picture, what was most distressing was the seeming absence of veteran leadership - way too many longgg contested and quick 3 pointers and way too many one one or one on three drives. A number of comments that most of the 3s were open shots - well, if you define a quick trigger from 23 feet with the defender a couple of feet in front of you, then I guess that’s an open shoot. Newman’s 3 at the end was open and were a couple from the wing, but there weren’t many others that were actually open from 20 feet and squared up resulting from quick passing around the perimeter or kicking out on drives. As to each of our guys: Doke deserves credit for hanging in there for 34 minutes while gassed and not fouling out. 5 dunks which were the official shot attempts. But, UK missed 32 shots - how many did Doke snare - 3! He’s by far the biggest guy out there and that’s not going to get it done. As others noted, he’s not well positioned for many rebounds and he doesn’t use his body or arms well. Hopefully, he will learn, because there’s no reason that he shouldn’t be in double digit rebounds most games (as LL was often last year). Graham - really bad game overall and it goes beyond not making shots. Too many of them were bad shots and not within the flow of the offense. Several bad, lazy turnovers. His inability to penetrate and create his own shot resulted in a shot clock violation at crucial point down the stretch. We need better from a player of the year candidate. Newman - made the critical 3 at the end and two clutch FTs, and rebounded well, but other than that…Shot selection was awful - one on a bunch types of drives and quick 3s.
Svi - led in scoring, but it definitely wasn’t efficient. 3-10 from deep. Of his other four buckets, he clearly walked on the breakaway pass from Vick and a couple of his “floaters” kind of bricked in. And, for the second tallest guy out there for us, just 3 RBs. Not a bad game, but not a particularly good one. Vick - the most solid overall, but didn’t shoot well and missed a wide-open layup. Would have to look at the game again to better understand what was happening on the defensive end - supposedly our best defender, but Knox lit him up. Garrett - only 19 minutes - nothing particularly remarkable, good or bad. Other than Dokes’ official 5-5 from the field, the rest of the guys were 19-63. Less than 30% from field and 3 point line. I don’t care how long and athletic UK is, that’s not going to get it done against most teams. A win is a win, but it would be great to see some actual execution of the offense down the road…
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3 starters had to be replaced. I’m confident things will improve from an execution standpoint.
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I certainly got the feeling that guys were more worried about the people watching them play and impressing then taking full advantage of how to win as a team. We saw too many countless instances of careless shots, passes, turnovers. But as our offensive identity has evolved Self has given guys lots of green lights. I can’t imagine he thought they would shoot that poorly and still win.
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They were also worried about not fouling on defense.
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@BeddieKU23 Your right about Billy. He needs to get his head out of his ass. - Time to put the big boy britches on, he has to realize not only hurting himself - BUT hurting his team mates as well. - We just got to make it trough the middle of December - sounds like help might be on the way, with De-Sousa hopefully sounds like it though.
Plus even though not counting on a lot but when Sam becomes eligible at least another body/ depth - who knows might be able to give a little something . - -I just hope this Vehicle thing with Billy isn’t more serious - not getting a good feeling on this though. They saying not sure when he might be back. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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It’s too little too late already in my opinion with Billy. I know that sounds a little early to be jumping ship but what’s the point in hoping for anything to change. Marcus doesn’t have a problem off-the-court, he gets it.
You get suspended for one game, that should be all the teaching you have to do. You get suspended again for a different incident well now its a problem that has no easy fix. While this last incident isn’t officially a suspension, his actions have cost him the ability to play so there really isn’t a difference. Especially after last year there really shouldn’t be much tolerance for anything.
Cut em loose, let him get his education for the year and he can decide what’s best for him after
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@BeddieKU23 maybe we should find out exactly what happened first.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BeddieKU23 maybe we should find out exactly what happened first.
we know enough that he’s missed 2 games. One for suspension, one for compliance issues. Seems like a path that has no good ending
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BeddieKU23 maybe we should find out exactly what happened first.
Excellent idea, but seemingly a lost art in this US of A.
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Doke was a nice surprise last night. It was good for him to be put on the spot by not having Billy and sort of being on his own to face a tall, athletic UK team.
I like how he seems to step up for big games. Let’s hope that continues!
Svi, Vick and Malik also made some key plays.
It seems like this tournament needs to happen a couple weeks later, after teams start playing better.
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Next yr its rumored to be the opening games of the year. Going in reverse I guess…
Your boy Doke looks so much smoother out there. If only he could make a FT
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Remember that Bragg also has to sit a game for something we found out later he did not do. He is still innocent until proven guilty, at least on the second game; the first game benching was fully earned.
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Doke was taken out of the game at the end because UK would have gone full Poke-a-Doke and send him to the line where he is a liability. If he can get his FT shooting in the 70s, it changes everything.
