Andrea Hudy is KU's secret weapon - "Jeff Withey" - Wall Street Journal
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BeddieKU23 said:
FIRE HUDY. she’s clearly causing injuries and is responsible for the shortfalls of this team.
And now her gender is causing dissension on this Board! See what happens when you let 'em out of the kitchen?
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The very valid point, that can of course be refuted with facts and info (as some have suggested above – albeit a bit snippy in some cases), is whether perhaps her gender (and being unique in being a female trainer of men) was a cause of her getting whatever recognition. It really is a harmless question and it is a legitimate question. Again, best refuted with facts and info as opposed to indignation. If someone thinks it’s sexist, so what?
@KUSTEVE Ok, the bull dyke thing is going to cause the PC crowd to implode. But I don’t know if anyone said she’s a token. I’m not sure anyone even implied it.
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HighEliteMajor said:
The very valid point, that can of course be refuted with facts and info … is whether perhaps her gender (and being unique in being a female trainer of men) was a cause of her getting whatever recognition.
Several things:
- It seems like the original question was not so much about recognition, but more about the results of her training while at KU, and whether she has brought a real competitive advantage.
- Do you know for a fact that she is the only female trainer of men?
- What proof would you accept? It would be extremely difficult to demonstrate that gender had absolutely no bearing on any recognition she has received.
Hudy has been very successful and nationally recognized. At this point, the burden of proof is more on those who would question the validity of her reputation.
Any facts or info to that effect?
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@HighEliteMajor The question is anything but harmless, and I am surprised you think asking a question that so devalues someone is a legitimate inquiry. Implying that someone has obtained recognition solely because of gender is no different than questioning if a promotion was simply because of race, or religion. It is insulting, and marginalizes all efforts to let everyone compete equally.
Turn it around–do you think you have gotten to your position in life solely due to factors other than your work? Wouldn’t you resent it if any time you achieved something your race and the advantages it brings with it were cited as the reason? Some people on the opposite end of the spectrum from you discount all comments from whites as being made from “privilege”–doesn’t that seem dumb? Why is this skepticism that Hudy’s recognition must be gender-related any different?
A woman should be able to be honored and lauded without being required to prove that she really deserves it. That is an anchor that won’t be cut loose until people lose that mindset that there is something fraudulent about a woman achieving in male-dominated professions.
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Here’s how much Kentucky BB thinks of their strength and conditioning coach: (didn’t bother getting photos uploaded, I guess):
Louisville strength and conditioning coach:
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@mayjay He did say “a cause”, not “the cause”.
It wouldn’t bother me if gender were a minor consideration in choosing Hudy for some award or other, as long as she was objectively deserving as well.
I have been “anti-PC” since 1970, but I try to be tolerant of harmless or minor PC tendencies. If we are all mutually intolerant all the time, we’ll never get along.
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@ParisHawk Not quite true. Here is what I am referring to, the immediate jump to gender speculation in his first post:
"i don’t really get what the hoopla is about Hudy? she’s a female??? is that it??? are our guys really that much stronger and athletic than the rest of the big 12? don’t need hudy to do that. but when compared the ncaa, not really. Oregon proved clearly otherwise.
“What exactly has she done that has given her this status? outside of her being a female in mens college bbal program?”
While he provides some discussion of reasons for not thinking she has done a good job, he only posits her being a woman as a reason for her “hoopla”.
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@ParisHawk I accept the info that she’s excellent. My main point is that the attacks on @elpoyo, as in the past, continue to be over the top. He’s a counter point. He says things others may not. But intolerance of his statements … and the denigrating “troll” stuff is simply seeking to silence his contributions.
@mayjay You and others are highly/overly sensitive. You refuse to discuss issue because the offend. You refuse to consider that gender, race, other issues that offend are part of decision making. There are always factors in one’s ascending to higher places that go beyond pure merit. Merit, by and large, is the greatest factor for success in this country. By a long way. That’s what can’t be ignored.
Hudy deserves everything she’s gotten.
However, in this day of anti-white man sentiment (the source of all evil on the planet), I think it is very relevant inquiring or asking of perhaps her gender contributed to her recognition.
Liberals do that. Liberals want to level what they perceive to be an un-level playing field, and thus they think like that. Merit isn’t the dictionary definition. Merit, to liberals, also entails what one has had to overcome, their supposed place in the society, as perceived by the liberal.
It’s affirmative action, right? That’s all. So when non-liberals like myself consider what has been done by others, I keep in mind that there might be some political motivation. Why? Because I’ve seen it in action. Many, many times.
It’s funny when liberals, who profess one argument, use that argument as an “untruth” to try to attack another argument. Nice try, counsel. So you think I might fight against the idea of “white privilege”, so you use an argument you believe in to try to counter mine. All the while ignoring the fact that your belief in “white privilege” happens to disintegrate your response. Right?
There are always factors in one’s ascending to higher places that go beyond pure merit. Always. And sometimes that sex, race, whatever. That’s a much different issue than opportunity. Opportunity is what this country grants. For example, I’m not hiring someone with neck tattoos. I’m not hiring someone with pants hanging half way down. I’m not hiring someone that can’t enunciate the English language.
Tough darts. Does that make in harder on Hispanics who perhaps can’t speak English as well. Of course it does.
And Hudy’s ascension was clearly harder given Bill Self’s admitted thoughts.
Likewise, liberals in this country attach more merit to the achievements of the non-white man, all other things being equal.
@elpoyo’s question was well placed. But as noted, it can be answered to show Hudy deserves every accolade.
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But elpoyo IS a blatant troll. He doesn’t even actually make arguments or discuss, he simply posts a comment made to incite and leaves. Of course when anyone responds to him he gets what he wants, so I’ve just been ignoring him.
You could give him a meaningful and thought out answer, but he’s not going to read it so what’s the point?
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@HighEliteMajor liberals in this country attach more merit to the achievements of the non-white man, all other things being equal.
When have all other things ever been equal?
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Ugh, let’s not get this political.
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Andrea Hudy @A_Hudy · 20m20 minutes ago
[link text](link url) 2017-2018! Let’s go
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@wrwlumpy Perhaps you can tell me where there is not equal opportunity in America?
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@mayjay You are quoting elpoyo, I was referring to highelitemajor
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@ParisHawk Ah, I see. Everything I have written about the “question” was about the initial comment and his own follow-up. Not that it prevented HEM from unleashing on me for daring to question his logical fallacy.
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Oh dear, we’ve offended someone’s sensitivities again – that happens with some when they lose an argument.
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@dylans that was cool!
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@elpoyo Oregon proved exactly this:
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Lucas was a pedestrian, non-athlete, manning our post. Nothing Hudy could do.
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Big guards can shoot over little guards.
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Lady luck needed to advance in the Madness. We didnt get it with our 3%, nor with Ducks’ timeclock beating 3s.
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Frank Mason and Josh Jackson needed help, which they didnt get. (in that game)
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No matter who your team is, pivotal ref calls can indeed affect a game. Either for or against.
Hudy affects conditioning and physique, molding a player with specifics for his position in Self’s system. Guards get different workouts than bigs. But what can Hudy do about mindset and nature of a player? Very little.
Basically you are right OR wrong, depending on what aspect of KU basketball you are referring, based on if Hudy can impact that aspect or not.
But this is silly exercise, since a whole national organization decided she gets this award, not you or me or Bill Self. Hmm, why did they reach that consensus? Just because she’s a girl? Doubt it.
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All right. I promise not to start a thread about the success of Andrea Hudy anymore. If she was not a woman she would be a man and then we obviously would ignore his success.
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JhwkrRedLegs said:
@elpoyo Oregon proved exactly this:
- Lucas was a pedestrian, non-athlete, manning our post. Nothing Hudy could do.
guess he wasn’t “hudified”!
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@wrwlumpy And why do the opinions of the players matter, anyway? They obviously only extolled her because she is a woman.
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Hudy is very good at what she does. She ain’t perfect, but neither is any other strength and conditioning coach in the country.
She led groundbreaking research on the affects of stress on athletic performance a couple of years ago.
She has done some impressive things to get more explosion out of different players.
However, there’s also research out there that certain people, simply because of the way they are built, their frame can’t handle the extra explosiveness. That’s not really her fault, and I am sure she is working to guard against that, but that’s still an existing fact.
Does the fact that she’s a woman matter. Yes and no.
No, because she is skilled at her job. She’s just like anybody else.
But yes, it matters because in addition to being skilled and knowledgeable, Hudy has to convince 18-22 year old guys that they should listen to a woman about getting stronger, faster and more athletic. That’s not exactly an easy sell, and most certainly not a level playing field because she has to prove herself to be not only knowledgeable, but also gain the respect to get full buy in from the athletes themselves.
So Hudy, in addition to being a skilled strength and conditioning coach, must also be a superior communicator in order to achieve that buy in.
Does that make her better at her job than a man? No. But does she have to use more skill to get the same results? Yes.
There’s a credibility bias that women, young people, and minorities face within the workplace. It’s assumed that they just aren’t as skilled, as knowledgeable or as hard working, which requires them to do even more to prove themselves. As a minority myself, I can speak to that bias. You have to first prove that you are worthy of consideration before you can prove that you are skilled. We wouldn’t even be having this conversation about whether or not Hudy was good at her job if she were a man. Her track record would speak for itself.
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@wrwlumpy most of us appreciated it!
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This place descends to pathetic many times. And is specifically because of mischaracterizations, misquotes, and misstatements, and blatantly dishonest attempts to create a narrative.
THE FACT IS NO ONE EVER SAID THAT HUDY GOT THE ACCOLADES BECAUSE SHE WAS A WOMAN. NO ONE.
But that doesn’t stop the dishonesty. It’s literally as if what folks say doesn’t matter. When it’s a little hot button issue that offends, accuracy doesn’t matter.
@elpoyo said – “but i don’t really get what the hoopla is about Hudy? she’s a female??? is that it???”
But that undeniable fact doesn’t matter. He never said it was because of her gender, and neither did I.
Pathetic.
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@HighEliteMajor Sorry, snowflake, for offending you by pointing out that questioning someone’s accomplishments literally means suggesting that the recipient is not worthy. Ask any woman with professional achievements if she agrees with you, or with us. I’ll wait.
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@mayjay Right … me, a snowflake. There’s a first. But it’s your style. You take your posture (as the offended snowflake) and now send it my way.
Of course, I have not stated nor suggested that I’m offended by anything. I have pointed out your (continued) intellectual dishonesty. And your last point admitted it – “suggesting” is now the word you use. Sure.
By your dishonest approach, anyone that asks a question or posits a theory is “suggesting” the question or theory to be true. That’s the box you’re in now.
That’s checkmate, counsel.
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HighEliteMajor said:
THE FACT IS NO ONE EVER SAID THAT HUDY GOT THE ACCOLADES BECAUSE SHE WAS A WOMAN. NO ONE.
Then you quote @elpoyo
@elpoyo said – “but i don’t really get what the hoopla is about Hudy? she’s a female??? is that it???”
Then @HighEliteMajor says this.
But that undeniable fact doesn’t matter. He never said it was because of her gender, and neither did I.
Let’s go backto @elpoyo for a second.
“But I don’t really get what the hoopla is about Hudy?”
That statement seems to question why Hudy is such a big deal, or why we talk about her so much, or something along those lines.
He then says she’s a female??? is that it (empahsis mine, obviously).
That at least implies that the only reason for Hudy getting “hoopla” (his word, not mine) is because she’s a female.
You quote the very sentence that says what you claim was never said, then say that no one said it.
Am I the only one that sees that?
We can agree or disagree about the existence of bias. That’s a reasonable conversation to have. We can dispute the weight that bias plays into things. That’s also very reasonable.
We can’t say that this quote doesn’t question Hudy’s accomplishments based on gender. That’s ignoring the actual words that were written.
@elpoyo goes on to question what Hudy has done beside be a female in a men’s D1 program. It’s all there in the comment.
How else is that supposed to be interpreted when that’s exactly what’s written.
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@justanotherfan HEM refuses to notice that he is not just arguing with me. That stalwart liberal @JayHawkFanToo carefully delineated what was sexist about the elpoyo questioning early in this thread, but HEM wants to believe it is an argument he can bully into submission with his rants against liberals, and me in particular. In fact, he has never acknowledged the existence of any of the numerous posts that have attempted to discuss the merits, including your own direct rebuttals to his assertions. And now I am dishonest?
Which reminds me, I need to find a brick wall to see if I can keep beating my head against it longer than I can keep up this frustrating education self-torture.
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@mayjay No, I noticed. And replied purposefully and deliberately.
@justanotherfan You do see where @elpoyo said, “is that it?” It’s a question. And as I’ve mentioned, one that can be refuted. And I’ve explained why it is a relevant inquiry.
In fact, your prior post leads one down that path, which was the point of my main reply. You say in reference to women and minorities -
“It’s assumed that they just aren’t as skilled, as knowledgeable or as hard working, which requires them to do even more to prove themselves.”
So, not as skilled, knowledgeable or hard working as what? Ah, the dreaded white male again. Because you’ve identified everyone on the planet except the white male, that’s all that’s left. Do you make these assumptions?
And one wonders why one might question whether someone of the leftist persuasion might seek to heap accolades on “a woman persevering in a job usually held by a man”, or something like that. That is no stretch at all, particularly when many seem to think they have to work harder to get where they are. You apparently (in a self serving fashion) attach more merit to the accomplishments of all non-white males, right?
It’s at least a reasonable question (how gender might impact something) to consider given what we get shoved in our faces every single day on every “evil white male” topic possible. And when the left makes everything about race and gender. Why wouldn’t one assume that bleeds into how they might assess or evaluate success?
Again, this is easy. Way too easy.
Further, it’s funny and sad all in one, your comment – that oh, the woman and the minority have to prove themselves unlike the mean old privileged white man. What a load of tripe. It’s the narrative some – some – women and minorities would like to create to make themselves feel better, and demean the accomplishments of white men (in their minds), who they view as an impediment to their achievement.
But your narrative also gives one the built in excuse for failure. And that’s what your assertion is about as much as anything. When you fail, it can always be someone else’s fault. Convenient.
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@elpoyo I’m sure Hudy tried everything with Lucas. But some kids are fast-twitch athletes, and some are not. At this point, simply judge 6’10 Lucas like any pro-scout would judge him, and thats the point I’m making. Cant make someone explosive if they werent to begin with.
Lucas’ job in Self’s scheme was to box out, set screens, seal off his man, and get garbage put-backs, lob dunks, and hit FTs. He can be productive (in college), but in a blue collar way. Everytime he tried to push the offensive scoring envelope, he became very unreliable. Yet another description would be that he had the offensive mentality, but not the physical ability or scoring touch.
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Getting pretty silly in here. Amazing how one inciteful comment can set off a thread. Seems both sides have dug in. It’s time to stick to talking about KU basketball, Hudy and her accolades/downfalls and not boardrats. Let’s not stoop.
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JhwkrRedLegs said:
@elpoyo I’m sure Hudy tried everything with Lucas. But some kids are fast-twitch athletes, and some are not. At this point, simply judge 6’10 Lucas like any pro-scout would judge him, and thats the point I’m making. Cant make someone explosive if they werent to begin with.
Lucas’ job in Self’s scheme was to box out, set screens, seal off his man, and get garbage put-backs, lob dunks, and hit FTs. He can be productive (in college), but in a blue collar way. Everytime he tried to push the offensive scoring envelope, he became very unreliable. Yet another description would be that he had the offensive mentality, but not the physical ability or scoring touch.
Yep. Lucas, god bless him, did all he could to maximize himself. He was limited however by his athleticism and skill level.
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I’m a lawyer. I’m also black. Because of the way business works these days, I often do business either by phone or email with people that I have never met. As I relayed in a comment last summer that was unfortunately lost in the reboot, I have had a situation where a guy I worked with for over three years (but had never met in person) walked past me and shook hands with another person in our office, assuming that person was me (even going so far as to address that person by my name). The person he shook hands with - a white male. In his mind he had an image of a business lawyer and that image was not a young, black man. He had seen my work. He had talked to me on the phone. And yet the image in his mind was not me - it was of a 40ish year old white man.
That doesn’t make him mean. It doesn’t make my colleague that he went to mean. But the implication is clear. He expected and assumed that he had been dealing with a white male the entire time and was surprised to discover that wasn’t the case. I had proven my talent by then - we had successfully negotiated two major deals by that point - but in proving that he assumed that I was white.
That’s not an excuse for failure. I’ve succeeded professionally by any measure you can generate - I’ve made good money, I’ve done things that were ground breaking, I’ve trained proteges that have gone and had their own success, I’ve been invited to speak at various events, etc. - but it speaks volume that my level of success suggests to some that I must be white, as if being black should be some sort of impediment.
And that is the bias that I am talking about. It’s simply assumed that I can’t be the same person that is this good at my job because I don’t look like I can be this good. Andrea Hudy faces that same challenge because people automatically associate her job (strength coach) with a big, strong guy. And that’s not just white men - that’s all people. If you asked a group of people to pick out the strength coach and put head shots of these people, I doubt many would pick Hudy as the strength coach:
That’s not because anybody is evil. It’s just that society assigns certain jobs to genders (nurses and elementary school teachers as women, police officers and firefighters as men, etc.) Pointing that out doesn’t make white men evil. It doesn’t make anyone evil. It means that society has established certain arbitrary roles and subconsciously we all place people in those roles based on appearance, etc.
That’s why lots of people doubt that Jeremy Lin is an NBA player even though he’s 6-5. That’s why many people doubted David Eckstein was a pro athlete when he wasn’t in uniform.
There’s a thing called implicit bias, where we associate certain stereotypes to appearances and other factors. It’s why people with southern accents are considered less intelligent, while people wearing glasses are considered more intelligent, even though your accent or sight has no correlation to intelligence.
Denying implicit bias does not make it untrue. It just makes you blind to it.
Oh, and those pictures - Try to guess the professions (or you could just do a Google photo lookup and see).
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@justanotherfan
Your patience is a marvel.To your own experience, I would add the numerous studies of hiring practices that revealed, despite presenting identical resumes, people with “black-sounding” names were offered interviews dramatically less often than “white-sounding” or “neutral” names. The same has occurred with online loan applications. Similarly, Consumer Reports’ current issue reports that “redlining” is still practiced in auto insurance: people living in heavily minority communities are charged higher rates than drivers in nearby white-majority communities even when the risks are demonstrably higher in the latter.
I don’t ascribe to the theory that is ranted about by HEM (white males are the source of all evil), but one undeniable fact stands out to me: the system wasn’t created by women or minorities, and it wasn’t minorities closing schools in the 50’s to avoid other races, or trying to prevent other people from voting from the 60’s through today, or lynching Emmitt Till and thousands of others, or framing the Scotsboro kids, or any of a zillion other examples of violent or legal efforts to preserve a racial hierarchy.
But now we are hearing the sobs of anguish over the plight of the alleged victims of efforts to guarantee equal rights. Oh, brother… How many whites would trade their kids’ race?
Keep up the good fight.
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@justanotherfan Another Award for Hudy:
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@KUSTEVE same award?
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Bump
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Look, all of the above aside, while undoubtedly helping our teams she was the strength and conditioning coach - can and will be replaced. Isn’t America great? So many qualified people.
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I think it will be tough to replace Andrea with someone of a similar caliber. I’ve seen very few (if any) other schools capable of building basketball players to the level she does. She has completely transformed players before our eyes.
I think her exclamation point will be Doke this year. Someone needs to take video footage from his first days in Lawrence and mesh it with video taken this year.
I am still in shock that we are losing Andrea.
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@drgnslayr I’m sure she has an assistant. The beauty of having someone wonderful like Hudy is that all the hard work has already been done. Now they probably won’t be as cute or as personable at Andrea, but I’m sure they’ll do a good job.
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KUSTEVE said:
@drgnslayr I’m sure she has an assistant. The beauty of having someone wonderful like Hudy is that all the hard work has already been done. Now they probably won’t be as cute or as personable at Andrea, but I’m sure they’ll do a good job.
@KUSTEVE Ok, in another thread you questioned Marilu Henner and you just called Hudy “cute”?
I don’t know what to say to that …
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@HighEliteMajor I don’t think he was questioning Henners cuteness…
I know I was confused and disoriented when the word cute was used for Andrea. Shes not unattractive. I might more expect words like “Strong”, “sharp-looking”, “female”? You might say that “we are unlikely to get another conditioning coach that is as female as Andrea”. It is a spectrum these days
I’m trolling.
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@approxinfinity I’ve now made the choice to abstain from further commenting now that the term “spectrum” and “Hudy” have been used in the same comment.
@KUSTEVE Cool that my other four were acceptable. You’ve made a strong, strong suggestion … zero disagreement. Comin’ back at you with Heather Locklear and Jayne Seymour.
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@HighEliteMajor When it comes down to politics, I avoid the subject, not because I fear to offend, it’s simply because it is a waste of time and there are better formats elsewhere.
That being said, you are right on target. Hudy has earned her rep, not because of any bias but maybe in spite of being a woman.
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@jhawk7782 I was kind of kidding around with @approxinfinity on the “spectrum” thing. He knows I was likely to jump both feet into offending …
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@HighEliteMajor haha
in fairness, as my wife has observed, it seems Hudy has softened her image the last few years. I was just giving @KUSTEVE a hard time.In some pics I could see how some might use a descriptor of “pretty”, or if handsome weren’t construed as an insult, definitely handsome.
This is probably all terribly unfair; I’d readily admit that I’m applying a celebrity scale here. And I have no basis of daily interactions with Andrea to assess a potential cuteness in her personality. I come from a place of joking ignorance. I am assuming by her badass, ripped, highly-successful grown-ass woman professional gymrat aura that there is very little room for cuteness in her personality.
Cute is soft. Hudy is hard.
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@KUSTEVE Angie Dickinson
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@KUSTEVE Jaclyn Smith, Erin Gray, Catherine Bach … you cannot top this.
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@HighEliteMajor @KUSTEVE Carrie Underwood Faith Hill? Top that
