Now The Real Fun Begins: May Rotation Talk
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stoptheflop said:
Has Preston been cleared by the NCAA to play? Earlier, there were questions about his academic eligibility. Now, many posters already predict he will be a starter. When will we know if Preston is academically eligible? Does KU make an announcement or do we just keep predicting greatness until the NCAA urinates on his eligibility?
Will forward Billy Preston be KU’s next great freshman?
With the arrival of June, all eyes in the Kansas basketball world begin to shift to the incoming crop of new Jayhawks, many of whom will land in Lawrence this weekend, in time for Bill Self’s youth camps, summer workouts and whatever other welcome-to-college-basketball adjustments the powers that be at KU choose to throw at them.
For a program that has welcomed such high-profile players as Andrew Wiggins and Josh Jackson in the past four years, the incoming 2017 class lacks sparkle.
That’s not to say that forward Billy Preston, combo guard Marcus Garrett and four Division I transfers — only one of which will be eligible in October — will not add a lot and play important roles for the Jayhawks.
But while Garrett might wind up being the next Devonte’ Graham and William & Mary transfer Jack Whitman could follow in Tarik Black’s footsteps, human nature — particularly with KU fans — tends to take people’s attention to the highest-rated player on the board. In this case, that’s Preston, who finished his prep career at Oak Hill Academy ranked as the 10th best player in the Class of 2017 by Rivals.com.
Unlike Wiggins and Jackson, Preston does not carry with him the automatic assumption that he’ll be a one-and-done Jayhawk.
That mentality won’t fly at Kansas and no doubt will lead to much more bench time than court time for Preston.“Talent-wise, he could definitely be that,” KU assistant coach Kurtis Townsend recently told the Journal-World. “His issue’s always been, he’s switched so many schools and he’d never really had great coaching until he went with Steve Smith (at Oak Hill) so he’s never really been held accountable for how he plays. The ball sticks sometimes with him and it’s, ‘Let me see if I can go one-on-one.’ With coach (Self), if he gets the ball and he can’t shoot it, pass it or drive it, he’s gotta get rid of it. So that’s something he’ll have to learn and (who knows) how long it will take him to learn how to play.”
Townsend knows this. And Preston claims he does. The key question entering the summer will be how closely Preston’s expectations match up with the reality of the journey which he’s about to take.
“It just depends on how long of a learning curve there is for him and how well he takes coaching,” Townsend said. “I told him, ‘I’m interested to see how you react when coach (gets on you) the first time. Are you gonna quit and pout?’ And he said, ‘No, no, that’s why I came there. I need that.’ They say the right things but until it happens you just don’t know. The (Morris) twins said that too and they fought it or they could’ve gone (pro) earlier. They ended up being great players, but it took ’em three years to figure out, 'all right, we ain’t gonna fight him.’”
One of the things Self, Townsend and Rivals all liked about Preston were his physical gifts.
“He’s got an NBA body already,” Townsend said.
And that’s both a good and a bad thing for the incoming freshman, who, according to a source with knowledge of his status, should be good to go in terms of eligibility when he arrives on campus.
Good because his potential is off the charts and his versatility will be a luxury for Kansas that approaches the way Jackson was used last season.
Bad because it remains to be seen if the KU coaching staff’s high demands and expectations from Day 1 will be something the 6-foot-10 forward can handle or if it will inhibit the steady progress required to make a serious splash.
“With his body and his athleticism and his skill set, that kid, if he wanted to, could average a double-double,” Townsend said. “But I don’t know if he’ll do it because we’re gonna have to kick his butt to go to the glass every time. I would say to him (after high school games), ‘Dude, 6-10 and you had three rebounds? Go get 10 rebounds.’”
Regardless of how much talent Preston possesses, how long it takes him to figure everything out and what his overall impact on the 2017-18 team actually winds up being, Townsend made it clear that the Jayhawks were glad to have him.
“I think he’ll be OK,” Townsend said. “Could he be one-and-done? Yeah. Will he be? It just depends how long it takes him to figure it out. It could take ’til Christmas. The advantage he has, though, is we’re going on this trip to Italy (in early August). So he’ll be a little bit ahead of the game. But the second game of the year against Kentucky he might look lost. And people might say, ‘Oh, he wasn’t as good as you thought.’ But we’ll be able to tell by January, once league play starts, if he’ll be a guy who could (leave early).”
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Per a KU sports article.
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@Fightsongwriter or Slim.
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Here is who I think will end up being the starters: DG, Newman, Vick, Whitman, Doke. Svi is the 6th man, and he replaces Whitman. Preston comes in next. Whitman is what Self wants at the 4. Down to the T. He’s a rebounder, he’ll battle inside, he can post up, he is tailor made for the hi-lo. I will reference Bill Self as my source, as he said we didn’t have any more Josh Jacksons to run the 4 out.
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I do not doubt your insider info.
But I have watched Self appear to renege on enough of these insider info deals in order to make a team win the most it can that I am hopeful he can break down Malik and his Dad and yet again create the best “team” possible.
Sometimes Self appears to get cornered by players and their parents, but not often. He’s apparently a wily devil, when it comes to putting on the squeeze to get the scheme and rotation he wants. And I don’t think being wily as a coach is a bad thing. It seems like a virtue. Fans often seem to underestimate how much a coach can apparently covertly jerk players and parents to get what a coach apparently wants.
Coaches appear to do this often over a career.
Players and parents are either matching wits with him for the one and only time in their lives, or maybe the second time, if they had another son that was previously a top prospect…
To some extent, it’s not a fair fight, IMHO, thus in forecasting I tend to side with Self finding a way to get his way.
Similarly, if Self makes his preference for a player in a role known, I bet that’s how it often goes.
If Self has decided Malik were a better fit than Vick and Svi, then Malik would be the guy long term; that would be my guess.
But Vick is a helluva player IMHO and Self has appeared to tend to recognize great players regardless of hype coming in.
He apparently knew Diallo was a piece, not a great player from the start. Same with Cliff and Bragg and so on.
Any coach that could appear to outmaneuver Carl and Xavier Henry into Brady giving the glue, gun and defense 20 mpg, can probably maneuver Malik and dad this season.
I could be all wrong about Vick and Svi being better than Malik this season and the team being better with Malik off the bench as a 6th man for 30mpg. But if Self were to see it as I do, rest assured, I have confidence he could and would try to make it happen.
Again, Self appears a VERY HARD man.
But a good and decent coach, IMHO.
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KUSTEVE said:
Here is who I think will end up being the starters: DG, Newman, Vick, Whitman, Doke. Svi is the 6th man, and he replaces Whitman. Preston comes in next. Whitman is what Self wants at the 4. Down to the T. He’s a rebounder, he’ll battle inside, he can post up, he is tailor made for the hi-lo. I will reference Bill Self as my source, as he said we didn’t have any more Josh Jacksons to run the 4 out.
I bet Preston starts. Maybe not right away though.
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Preston will start. Hopefully right away.
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I actually hope you’re right. Townsend’s comments make me believe there will be growing pains, and Self will settle for the more experienced guy.
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This post is deleted!
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@BShark Nice post. Fun stuff to think about. I think with our guards, they all get a chance to play in the beginning. Coach Self wants them all molded and coached up ( the new ones anyways ) before conference season. Whoever fits the system best gets the minutes when the conference rolls around as per usual. I have no idea what to expect myself from the new guys. DG and Vick and Svi will all be taking major steps up in terms of their abilities. At least, I think they will. Newman sounds scary good to me right now. The other two I know even less about. All this makes me excited for Italy. I hope they televise the games or stream them online somewhere.
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@Fightsongwriter The Poet!
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@BShark Nice post! Dig the comments added in from KT. I wonder if The Star or LJW has them somewhere? Ive been busy lately, life moves fast. (tangent) OK back to it.
I really liked it when Coach Self said last year that “Josh Jackson unpacked his bags.” Josh is absolutely my favorite OAD of the Self era. That kid unpacked his bags and basically went about his life like he was going to be at KU for 4 years. Josh dug in and learned all he could from Coach Self and the rest and we could see it progress as the season went on! He came to KU as a super stud with Wiggins comparisons and IMO left KU even better than Wiggins did at the same stage.
Will Preston “unpack his bags?” I’m thinking he will but I cant honestly expect him to be like Josh. I’m hoping for just really dammed good from this kid at this point.
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Several knowledgeable sports writers have projected Malik as the conference POY based on reports of his progress during his off year. I just don’t see Malik not starting.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Several knowledgeable sports writers have projected Malik as the conference POY based on reports of his progress during his off year. I just don’t see Malik not starting.
Malik is a lock imo.
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KUSTEVE said:
I actually hope you’re right. Townsend’s comments make me believe there will be growing pains, and Self will settle for the more experienced guy.
There will definitely be growing pains.
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3 of the starting spots are locked down right now. Graham, Newman, and Azubuike will start. Vick/Svi will fight for the 3 and Whitman/Preston will fight for the 4.
I think Vick probably starts and Svi comes off the bench bench because of his versatility of being able to sub the 1-4 spots. Garrett is the 8th man early on and then Cunliffe likely supplants him in December.
I don’t see Lightfoot factoring into the rotation in any significant way and Garrett’s minutes diminishing as conference rolls around.
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You listed juts 3 bigs, Doke, Preston and Whitman as taking all the minutes for the 4 and 5 position? I am not sure that is correct, you need more than 3 players for these 2 position and this is where Lightfoot might grab minutes…unless you go back to a pure 4 and 1 with the 3 bigs you mentioned fighting for the one position.
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Here’s a sheet I’ve been keeping track of the Big-12.
The orange marks scholarships used for 2018-19 players.
West Virginia’s top 100 recruit Culver is rumored to be possibly ineligible. We’ll see what happens there.
Oklahoma got a visit from Mkyle McIntosh. Also visted Oregon. Could easily end up in either spot.
Baylor might be getting a transfer (sit-out) in Vance Jackson (former Top 60 kid) who played at Uconn as a freshman.
Iowa St might want to add another guard if possible with the McNeill transfer
Something will have to give at TCU with 14 scholarship players. Maybe the Rafus grade rumors become true and he’s the defection.
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@BeddieKU23 Rafus will probably end up at a JUCO.
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@JayHawkFanToo I think he is assuming we play 4 guards instead of playing Lightfoot. Which I would assume myself. I hope Mitch proves me wrong. But today, Svi could play in the post as well as Lightfoot.
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I’m looking at these rosters, and I’m not sure who is even good besides KU. Should be interesting!
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@BShark I think Tech is the dark horse. 5 seniors. Added a couple of play now JUCO guys. Could be experienced and deep.
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My post spring Big-12 rankings
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KU- obvious with Svi back
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West Virginia- Losing Macon and possibly their best recruit hurts them but its hard to bet against Huggins and the style of play. The development of West/Konate in the post is paramount for them. They will need Bolden/Bender and something from their other 4 recruits to be rotation pieces to hold onto this spot.
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TCU- Lots of positive momentum for this team. Picked up a useful grad transfer in Hamdy from VCU. Big body that can rebound and solidified their #3 spot for now. Dixon has made a lot of waves in a short amount of time.
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Oklahoma- Maybe a little ambitious placing them here but the addition of Trae Young plus expected improvements from their returning players makes this a potential pick in the top half. Kruger’s teams are never down for long. If they land McIntosh they will be a tough team.
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Baylor- 4 seniors still makes them a tough out. They are weak at SG and post depth. They will need Vital (redshirt) and Clark to make an impact as freshman in the post. Motley was the difference between 2nd and 5th IMO
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Texas Tech- Could start 5 seniors and have 5 more upperclassmen in the rotation. Evans & Zach Smith could be 1st team Big-12 performers this year.
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Texas- Bamba raises them from last. Getting any kind of stability from Coleman at the PG position will help them. Jones/Bamba are NBA players but what else scares anyone. I don’t trust Smart enough to make them good.
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Kansas St- 3 starters back and 2 rotation pieces for delusional Webby. No idea what they will get from the numerous unranked players they signed.
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Iowa St- Biggest fall of them all. Iowa St didn’t have a good spring. Numerous players left, they missed on targets and picked up what they could to fill out the roster. Wigginton is an absolute stud but he can only do so much as a Freshman.
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Oklahoma St- Finally Forte is gone. Evans went pro. Carroll returning gives them some hope. They could be better then Iowa St but this is a team that will rely so much on Carroll on offense.
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Yup, although the loss of Brangers (one of the top 5 JUCO’s) in the land hurt them. He was going to provide perimeter shooting which they still lack outside of Evans. They still lack post depth if Odiase isn’t healthy and I don’t see anyone on the roster to rest Zach Smith much but this is possibly the best Tech team in a long time.
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@BeddieKU23 Yea was sad to see Brangers leave. Perfect guy to bring off the bench when the team is struggling to score. Instant offense.
That Western Kentucky team could be decent this year…
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TCU had a JUCO player committed to them “opt to turn pro”. I believe that solves their scholarship situation
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TTU landed one time brief KU target and non-qualifer (that year) Deshawn Corprew as well as stud Italian PG Davide Moretti. UConn and Indiana were sniffing around Moretti. Kid can hoop. TTU might be pretty interesting this year after all.
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I saw Corphew was joining in 2018.
Moretti looks like a solid pickup and looks like he’ll be somewhere in the Top 200 players.
Going to be interesting to see how they mesh 9 new players in
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BeddieKU23 said:
I saw Corphew was joining in 2018.
Moretti looks like a solid pickup and looks like he’ll be somewhere in the Top 200 players.
Going to be interesting to see how they mesh 9 new players in
Yep, big learning curve.
I have Moretti around Svi level but obviously he is a guard/smaller. So, he should be a good multi-year contributor.
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That’s what I was thinking as well or the Italian guard that just left St Johns after 2 years as a good comp
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Bruce just kicked their possible starting center off the team. Tough times in kitten land.
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BShark said:
Bruce just kicked their possible starting center off the team. Tough times in kitten land.
couldn’t happen to a better person!
huge loss
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@BeddieKU23 Yes Dixon has made a difference already. - -I knew when TCU hired him he was gonna be a nice get for them. - -I have always liked him - -I just think it just makes this league just that much more competitive - -I think he may make some noise - -can’t wait for the season seeking another title - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Bruce might be looking at the bottom of the league. I know he’s a “good coach” because people keep repeating it so he might be able to avoid it. Their roster is really bad though, this will be a true test. Post defense could be a real issue. They have bodies inside, but none stand out on that end. Dean Wade is the only one we know is decent offensively, and even then, the Dean Wade that hero balls against KU is not the one that shows up in most other games. Stokes, Brown, Sneed and Wade are all okay players, but after that it kind of falls off a cliff, and that’s not even a full starting line-up.
We will know a lot more about KSU once they actually start playing games, since the four I mentioned are their only four returners that will see much pt.
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I’m happy they will suck so they can give him an extension
They still have the reincarnation of Larry Bird according to their delusional fanbase. LB Jr will take over both positions and dominate. Definite All American and top 10 pick next year. hahaha.
Oh I’m also looking forward to the annual our players are better then KU’s comparison
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Well they were right about one thing. LB JR will have a better KSU career than Bragg at KU.
And yeah…they will have to reach more than usual this year.
Stokes/Brown vs Graham/Newman
Sneed vs Svi/Vick
LB JR vs Preston
Talk about mental gymnastics to make that favour KSU.
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Baylor picked up a big transfer in Mario Kegler for 2018. A likely starter at SF or small ball 4…
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BeddieKU23 said:
Baylor picked up a big transfer in Mario Kegler for 2018. A likely starter at SF or small ball 4…
They also have a really weird situation with Makai Mason.
He’s going to play for Yale this upcoming season, and then grad transfer to Baylor.
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Definitely, I still think there a lot that will happen between now and Mason going to Baylor. With the Ivy league not allowing his type of situation he’ll either try and make the NBA after this year or as he’s saying go somewhere else for his final year.
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If he is a graduate transfer, there is nothing the Ivy League can do since he will have graduated and gone from Yale, right?
I believe he SEC used to have some restriction accepting graduate transfers but did away with them a while back.
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The Ivy league does not allow graduate transfers to play. Mason after sitting out last season with an injury is going to graduate after this year and look to transfer. It was odd in that he apparently already decided on which school even though he’s still playing for Yale.
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Tilmon arrested. Per an MUPD arrest report, Jeremiah Tilmon was arrested at 1:42 a.m. Friday for a minor in possession after a routine traffic stop.
His Missouri career is off to a resounding start!
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But he is not a graduate transfer right now, right so far? He is just an athlete with two years left of eligibility and after he graduates at the end of the season he will still have one year left. He will be a graduate transfer AFTER he graduates from Yale and at that time there is nothing Yale or the Ivy League can do, right? What part do I have wrong?
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JayHawkFanToo said:
But he is not a graduate transfer right now, right so far? He is just an athlete with two years left of eligibility and after he graduates at the end of the season he will still have one year left. He will be a graduate transfer AFTER he graduates from Yale and at that time there is nothing Yale or the Ivy League can do, right? What part do I have wrong?
Your correct he’s not a grad transfer yet. Mason has kind of jumped the gun per say in saying he’s going to be a grad transfer after next season and also by naming Baylor as the team he will transfer too. Because he can’t stay with Yale if he graduates in the spring he’d have to transfer somewhere else. I expect he’ll be one of the most sought after transfers if he sticks to what he’s saying
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@BeddieKU23 Not a big deal or a surprise. Lawrence PD is just nice enough to not mess with the BBall players unless they absolutely have to.
BG should have gotten a DUI like his first week in Lawrence if I recall correctly. Got lucky to get away with only a hit and run charge.
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This bit about who comes off the bench, Malik or LaGerald, I think Self will get a good read on this by January and that he will play it to the optimum result in terms of team unity and individual prodding. If both are healthy they are each headed for 26+ minutes, regardless. As is Svi. And they all are eventually headed to the NBA as probable first round selections, sooner or later. The Whitman/Preston debate: who knows? Gotta see these guys work, within the framework of Doke and our fine speedy guards. Two very different types of 4 men…which is a real gem for the coaching staff, by way of throwing change-ups. Bill Self moves forward incrementally as an NCAA change-up artist. He did some super stuff with Jackson last season. Josh might indeed owe some of his future millions to the program which guided him to such noteworthy versatility. Individually, there are some under radar players now vying for minutes in the Jayhawk program. IF they evolve into unified unselfish team players this squad can make some huge noise by March. And a bunch of these guys will be recognized nationally.
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I see our main competition as WVU, OU and TCU. The common thread is a great coach.
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Newman will start.
