Big 12 Tournament of tears
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Just read this…
Dave Tuley ESPN Staff Writer
Earlier, TCU beat No. 1 Kansas 85-82 in the Big 12 tournament. The ViewFromVegas is the Horned Frogs did it as 9-point underdogs and as high as +400 on the money line at the Westgate and MGM sports books. ESPN’s Joe Lunardi says Kansas will still be a No. 1 seed. If that’s the case, Handicapper Marc Lawrence passes on a tidbit that five No. 1 seeds lost in the first round of their conference tourneys (2011 Pittsburgh being the most recent) and none made the Final Four. Share 1h
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@mayjay said:
ESPN noted that the last two NCAA #1 seeds to lose in the opening round of their conference tourneys were UK in 2011-12 and UNC in 2008-09…
…both of which went on to win the NCAA title.
Buck up, Bucketeers! All we can do is try to cheer our guys on. Bitching and moaning afterwards never changed a loss into a victory, and being spiteful about guys who have been working their butts off for KU is just ugly, really ugly.
Actually, I think they were ranked #1 at the time that they lost in the their conference tourneys.
But, I don’t get why this is or has to be a black or white or pollyana-ish vs. bitching and moaning dichotomy. On the one hand, as reflected in the fun fact to know and tell, this loss doesn’t have a direct impact on what happens in the tourney. Yes, UK and UNC lost and went on to win it all. And, KU has done well in the tournament in instances where it didn’t when the B12 tourney.
But to say that the game today is wholly irrelevant is perhaps a bit delusional? I don’t think HCBS would agree that it was irrelevant - he was certainly fired up and had a pretty good perspective afterwards. I don’t think Frank thought it was irrelevant. The concern is what it revealed and what it augurs for the Big Dance. What is revealed about a fairly consistent pattern of pattern of performance.
To be clear, we lost to a team that had lost 7 consecutive games to end the regular season. We gave up 85 points to a team that had not scored more than 74 during its losing streak - that had only broken 70 points twice. We allowed easy baskets at the rim and wide-open 3s - as Self noted.
If we’re being honest with ourselves, do we really think that kind of defensive performance is likely to lead to a deep tournament run? And, this game wasn’t a one-off in that regard. It is simply a fact that no team in the past 15 years has won the national title with a Kenpom defensive efficiency rating at low as ours is now (30). Not saying it can be done; it would simply be unprecedented.
At least until today, we demonstrated the ability to tighten up and get stops at the end of games - but to allow way too many easy baskets before then - which allows teams to hang around and runs the real risk of a couple of breaks not going our way resulting in a L.
Don’t get me wrong - I like to watch this team. Frank is a warrior and easy to root for. JJ is a real alpha dog. I like the never say die attitude (excepting Morgantown). I love the fact that HCBS has been willing to depart from rigid adherence to his system to adapt to the talent and personnel he has. Of course, we will root for the Hawks through thick and thin.
At least I don’t mean to belittle or denigrate anyone by making observations about what I see on the court and how it compares and contrasts to other teams and what it might mean for our tournament prospects. IMHO, unless we are, as HCBS said after the game - able to “tighten up a few things” then a deep run would be a hope more than an expectation. Just one persons opinion. But, I will be watching and rooting (and undoubtedly getting a few more gray hairs along the way)…
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I said what I meant.
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So did I…
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Just clarifying since you seem to think you had a better idea of what I meant.
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@HighEliteMajor and hopefully it drives even greater motivation.
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No ill-will towards you or anything. I didn’t say to get back on your meds or something like that.
And I think even you would admit, you have a lot of silly crazy fun in those long posts you make.
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@approxinfinity said:
TCU deserves to dance. They played a hell of a game to beat us.
Does the fact that JJ didn’t play factor in?
I think it does.
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I would hope so since KU wins pretty easy with JJ IMO.
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@Lulufulu agreed. Svi foul was unfortunate but not too mad about it.
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@Big-Clyde52 said:
@BShark At this point in time, Bragg is definitely not skilled.
I think he’s not tough. Skilled- yes. Tough - not so much.
Can’t finish through contact consistently.
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@Bwag and what does it say to your dark side?
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@BShark said:
I would hope so since KU wins pretty easy with JJ IMO.
As I think @jayballer54 commented, JJ was good for 3+ points and a few RB and probably a block or steal or 2.
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@Bwag of course it does. Doesn’t mean that TCU isn’t a good team. But we’re the best team in the country with Josh.
Man. You guys are chippy tonight.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@Bwag and what does it say to your dark side?
I find the “eternal sunshine crew” somewhat annoying. We’re gonna blow out everyone. We’re gonna win every game regardless…and I find that they can be just as negative towards posters who are either more realistic in their appraisals or especially those who are more pessimistic in nature - the glass is only 48.5% full - types.
I like a person with dark humor. And I’ll pull for our team to win every game. I enjoy the give and take of argumentation as long as it doesn’t turn personal and nasty. I find that the E.S.C. Tend to attack other posters more which I find ironic.
We haven’t had much to debate this year:
Self adjusted like he never has before to our personnel
Our bench has been so thin there’s been no debate over who should play.
And we’ve witnessed our best OAD and a POY performances in recent history.
Been lots of sunshine but there have been clouds all along the way with tight games, but for the most part, clouds have parted and the sun came back out.
Today though shows that a piece of the puzzle is out of place, you don’t get to see it to the end.
Upcoming tournament can deal that out of alignment situation very easily:
Hot shooting team, uneven or even biased reffing, injury. We’re dancing on a razors edge from here on out. I’m hoping we skate into the winners circle on that edge.
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Since you brought it up, can you cite one serious post or poster that said…We’re gonna blow out everyone…? I woul guess the consensus is that KU wins close games with a small margin of error.
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Wow, did I get that wrong on UNC and UK! Oh, well, the sunshine was too bright so I must have read it wrong! Good thing we will blow everybody out from here on!!!
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@JayHawkFanToo I’m not gonna name names. That would go against what I’m complaining about.
But, feel free to go read the opening comments of many a game thread. I think some names might begin to reveal themselves.
But I can read past those posts AND DO. What I find annoying is that some of these same sunshine crew will jump personally the comments and posters that don’t share their eternal optimism.
That’s really the gist of my comment. The irony of extreme negativity rained down upon the heads of the less optimistic.
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Btw, enjoying the posting that I missed before, during and after the game.
I’m not at all sad, no, strike “sad” and insert, mad at this loss.
I’m glad for the added rest and hopefully greater motivation for the big dance.
Wouldn’t be upset if we scrapped the post season Big 12 tourney except that I enjoy watching the games and it does provide more opportunity for that.
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@HighEliteMajor I am with you - I don’t give a flip about the conference tourney. It really is a waste of time. The loss today was a great reminder for our guys that they need to play good defense to win. Can’t just hope the other team misses.
If they make it to the final four, no one will remember or care. If not, well then plenty of discussion will arise.
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In this or any forum all we can do is offer opinions and as such the are not right or wrong; however, you are attributing statements to the less negative fans that have not been made.
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@JayHawkFanToo you’re baiting me to prove it, but I’m swimming on by.
There’s an old preacher’s saying that when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, only the one hit yelps.
Not saying that’s you, but I’m content to make the statement and let it stand. I really do enjoy the give and take and the varied PoV’s.
I personally don’t think I’m always right and am willing to learn and adapt to a better argument.
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Swim away…
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WVU handles Texas, Baylor playing terrible and down to KSU in the second.
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Looks like KSU is gonna beat Baylor and get in the dance rather easily. Just made the day a little crappier. Semi finals- ISU vs TCU and KSU vs WVU.
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@kjayhawks we get to keep bruce.
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@Crimsonorblue22 ya doubt the new ad would fire him right away to start with.
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Baylor looks like us sleep walk til the final few minutes, hopefully our guys are watching to see again that don’t work.
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I always try to mix business with pleasure, if that’s what you mean.
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@approxinfinity I don’t care much about TCU overall. I am more concerned of how this loss to #9 will impact our overall entry into the DANCE. If your logic were taken into consideration with the committee @approxinfinity, I wouldn’t have a problem at all. However, the committee is under extreme pressure from bball fans to reward and penalize teams. KU is always the whipping boy, and scapegoat for them. KU is always pretty much the team under the gun to suffer in the eyes of the committee. Just read Lunardi’s logic. Right or wrong, he does have his finger on the committee’s pulse. He obviously isn’t the final decision maker at all, but his thinking is pretty much consistent with most people. They will throw KU’s entire season out and reward some team they all want to advance for some reason. They can afford to impose some “loss” justification and satisfy the whine bags that demand teams get what they want.
This is going to be an interesting bracket year. You have four top teams: Nova, Zags, KU, and UNC. I just hope the boyz show up and play.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@kjayhawks we get to keep bruce.
I think so too. If KSU wins against WVU or…the Big12 tournament somehow then he 100% stays.
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@Bwag The “eternal sunshine crew” – pretty funny.
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Any chance these guys don’t play Friday / Sunday?
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I don’t think so, we are locked into the Mid-West bracket which is that friday/sunday schedule
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Espn has KSU as the last team in so if they dont win today, they have to sweat sunday and see what happens with other teams.
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@kjayhawks said:
Espn has KSU as the last team in so if they dont win today, they have to sweat sunday and see what happens with other teams.
Go BRuce
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So if TCU beats KSU in the b12 pseudo championship game will there be 7 Big12 teams dancing?!?
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@dylans I would say so. If KSU and TCU lose tonight, which I’m betting on I bet we only get 5. KSU is the last team in currently, if Indiana, TCU, California or Houston win I could see them getting bounced out or with Illinois State sitting second team out jumping ahead with KSU losing because they are 22 spots higher in RPI. KSU to me doesn’t deserve the bid unless they win tonight, why reward mid major non conference schedule.
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tcu getting routed no SURPRISE
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Really putting the loss in perspective. It was bad
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Watching North Carolina right now. Honestly, the crispness,speed and intelligence that they play with is what I hoped our guys would do. They look like what I expect from a veteran team.
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@BeddieKU23 correct. Anyone that thinks it wasn’t terrible is fooling themselves.
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Seton Hall has dominated nova but won’t last. Hall starting to choke
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Did Kansas play any zone yesterday ? If not, why not ?
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@Blown yes
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Also when is last time Kansas played Zone?
Trying to keep it hidden from NCAA foes?
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@Crimsonorblue22 really? I was watching game intermittently with work and didn’t see them in zone. Was it only on a few possessions?
