Senior Night vs OU
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@Crimsonorblue22 Playin’ hooky huh?
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@cragarhawk It seems your perspective is overly black and white… What we do today predicates exactly what we do tomorrow, and so on. That seems pretty dismissive of hundreds of other elements that a more optimistic fan is willing to acknowledge exist.
It seems a pessimist can be characterized as holding an irrational belief in the predictive capacity of a data set that is too limited, while an optimist might be said to hold an irrational belief in his team’s abilities, knowing full well that he has not attempted to accommodate all available data into his perspective.
Both are faith based beliefs that are in direct conflict. So you see, it’s a holy war.
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@approxinfinity I just call it individuality. And I believe that in itself to be a positive thing. If it makes me the bad guy. I’ll be all too happy to be that. Theres one in every good story is there not? I don’t have to have a bad time doing anything just because I don’t agree with everyone present. Wrong or right. I believe acceptance of others opinions, thoughts, analysis, insight, and positivity or lack there of to be a good trait.
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@approxinfinity said:
So you see, it’s a holy war.
And it can be fun when people give information to support their thought. But, when two or more fans of opposite belief sets just ruin an entire thread for everybody by doing nothing else but sniping and name-calling, it is more of an a–holey war.
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@cragarhawk I agree, nothing wrong with being disappointed after we were out played for 35 minutes bye a 19 loss team in our own building. I was cussed out repeatedly my first week on this site 2 years ago for saying WSU would smoke us easily and they did. I’m realistic, we have to play better to go past the first weekend. News flash just about every team in the NCAA tournament will be better than OU and the game won’t be at AFH. I expect to lose games, some folks on here, god bless them, think we are going to stomp the living daylights outta every team we play. I’d be more concerned will them not taking the loss. Rather than someone that upset with playing poorly or getting out hustled.
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@kjayhawks no apparently you’re an a hole and have name called ppl by not agreeing with everything they say. Ya know it’s funny to me. The Truman show… Was a terrible, just awful picture in my honest opinion… but can you imagine how butt awful it would’ve been without Truman? Ppl are different. When did that become offensive. I guess it just comes down to an awful realization when a man has outlived his time
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@cragarhawk nothing wrong with different. I just don’t think you’re accounting for the fact it was senior night, or that this team has beaten plenty of good teams as well and are 27-3. You’re assuming that the only predictor of tourney success is destroying everyone we play. Look at some of the UConn or Syracuse teams that went deep in the last decade. You don’t have to blow everyone out to win it all.
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@approxinfinity @cragarhawk I always like to see peoples views on stuff, good or bad. No one individual or team is perfect. This team can be crazy good at times and crazy bad at times. It would boring to watch us play great all the time, which no one does or to be like fizzou and watch us play terrible all the time lol. I love the positive posts and topics but I also enjoy read about our flaws, to see if we can over come them.
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@globaljaybird took half day tmrw
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@approxinfinity I guess I don’t follow. My posts tonight we’re that maybe nerves getting to Mason early… can’t finish as of yet. Implying exactly what you said. Senior night. And “as of yet” meaning that will likely change. I said LL and JJ were suffering from the senior night/last game in AFH itis if you will. And that Frank was waking up. Which he decidedly did in my opinion. I suggested that a previous post I made on another thread was perhaps wrong considering a 4 win OU team can embarrass us in our building. I believe they more or less did for 30 minutes. And I suggested that we can’t play that way in the second round of the tourney against a quality fundamental team and expect to win. I think history has clearly shown that to be a favorable opinion. And it isn’t anything I described as fact. It’s simply and “IF THEN” statement. If we play that way. We likely lose. Doesn’t mean we will play that way nor lose. I think ppl take alot of what I say and try to make it black and white when that is not necessarily so. I’ve said multiple times if this team is within a bucket or two with a minute to go against anyone. I like our chances 9 out of 10. I think that’s a positive statement. And I also think it can’t be necessarily lumped to black or white. But I’ve been wrong before. And I’ll bet my sweet Irish ass I will be again
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@cragarhawk all the fans sitting around me have a damn good time, we’re not bland at all!
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@Crimsonorblue22 I have no doubt. We always have a great time as well!
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@cragarhawk alright. I guess I’m taking “if we do this in the tourney, we will lose” as meaning “because we are doing this now, we are likely to do this in the tournament and lose”. Isn’t it implicit in your statement that you believe there to be a correlation between the performance at hand and the likely performance in the tourney? If no causation, then why mention the correlation?
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@approxinfinity He was simply stating a fact, which sounded like a depressingly negative prediction when it was really just a conditional “if…then.” Not necessarily predictive, just sort of morose analysis perhaps.
Of course, you can reply in kind from a more optimistic perspective: “If we play the entire tourney like we did in the last ten minutes, we will never lose.” Also a fact!
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@approxinfinity I believe it’s definitely a correlation. Am I wrong? If we do that in the tourney a rationalization based on history and atleast in my mind, common sense suggests that to be a true statement largely. It does not mean we will do that it. It doesn’t even imply we will. Simply a realistic statement to my view. In the same manner that a person might say. If we’re within a bucket or two of any team in this country with a minute to go. We likely win. “likely”. Meaning best chance is… doesn’t mean we will definitively win any game against anyone with the said criteria. I mean if that’s not gray… Rather than black and white. Idk if I know the meaning. It basically suggests that this team is in fact the master of its own destiny this season. Hell idk if I’d want it any other way
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@mayjay precisely. So I then ask… Is the negative mind the one that takes it there? Or the one the says what you so beautifully explained?
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The coolest thing about the entire night was seeing how both our offense and defensive efforts fed into and reinforced each other.
Astounding defensive play by Mason on his steal of the inbounds pass leads to a step back 3 by DG–shades of Sherron '08 (except SC got the ball back and made the 3 himself).
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@cragarhawk Both of those mind-halves are taking me off to bed! Nite!
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I’m watching the game… seeing JJ make those passes ahead to Bragg… in transition ya know… Awe… Another turnover… and I’m thinking that’s okay son. You keep on trying that. Cause although they were slightly misplaced passes. Bragg is a lil green on game minutes right now. You keep working that. In the next ten games that could become such beautiful ball
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@Bwag yes we did, they couldn’t hear
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@cragarhawk
We ripped a good but young OU team to shreds in the last 7, a team that wanted this signature win badly to hang their hat on. Yes there was AFH. But damn if we aren’t lethal. I agree with you that some of our wins have been nail biters. And that we dont want to let good teams hang around. But we won this one by 10, it wasn’t close to a 1 possession game by the end. That with everything that went wrong and OU playing better than their age. So that’s 3 in a row double digit wins isn’t it?
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@approxinfinity after JJ’s vicious dunk with about 8 to go in the first half. I told my family. Now watch this team go to work. They can score points in droves like nothing I’ve ever seen we will score 20 more in the next 8 you watch. Of course that didn’t happen then… Cragar was wrong again… but it did happen. And as always. You just sit and watch in awe… it’s a thing of beauty. Those three 3 balls straight by Devonte? That’ll make a grown man cry… specificly Lon Kruger…
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@cragarhawk lol. Those 3 treys were amazing!
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I gotta go to bed. Work in am. Night man.
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@approxinfinity I was thinking that tonight after that. Which I’ve thought it before during this season as well. Need an icy cold clutch shot at the end of the game? If it’s wide open. FM all day long. Never think twice. But heavily guarded? Devonte is my man every time
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Lon Kruger did not get the win tonight, but he showed his kids that they could play toe-to-toe with us in AFH – until the 6th man kicked in and we awoke from our ceremony-induced coma. OU, young and inexperienced, lost composure. Next year, they may be a bit tougher to knock out.
If OU ends our streak next year, we may look back to this game as the source of evidence that Lon could refer to over and over for lessons of what to do to keep a great team on its heals, and what not to do when a lion bites back.
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Sounds like Self shares my PoV concerning, Flip the switch mentality.
“I told our guys, ‘We’re running out of time,’” said KU coach Bill Self after the emotional night. “These guys are confident, but I think they think that, whatever the situation, they can flip the switch, which is a bad trait. You get behind like this in a game that really matters and you may not and probably can’t…”
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@Bwag two things about that quote.
A. same sentiment well as what we were discussing: can’t play like this in tourney and win. B. acknowledgement that this game did not really matter ("…In a game that really matters")
Trial combat is not real combat. I believe this team will win the war.
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McDuffie is WSU’s best player. Looks like he can play in the NBA tbh.
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Yea, I was thinking that too… OU is going to be tough next year. But i still wouldn’t bet on them winning at AFH
Not too excited about the conference tourney (as usual), but man, I am stoked for the Dance this year. These kids know how to win, and just never give up!
It’s good to be a Jayhawk these days.
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@BShark Why do you watch Wichita? Life is too short.
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McDuff reminds of Cleanthony Early
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@BShark I see. I like KU basketball.
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Every person is entitled to speak their mind. After all this is America regardless of who you voted for. Yet what is misleading? Though you have a right to speak your mind doesn’t mean nobody can respond to what you wanted to say.
Yes KU played like crap. Yet instead of saying they stink. Try to understand why? From you’re posts I’m getting the feeling you’re all but guaranteeing a early tournament loss? You want to focus on the 33 minutes of bad play. Yet you don’t want to give any props that KU out scored OU 31-9 in in what 7 to 8 minutes.
You may want to say it’s luck but KU has done it all year long. It’s just the way this team is built, and have to play. They are short handed on the bench. So they have to play it safe for most of the game as to not foul out key players before the game really counts. It’s only in those later moments are they allowed to play with the fury we see time and time again. What good does it to play great for 33 minutes, yet then lose it in the end because 2 or 3 of your best players are sitting on the bench, because they fouled out of the game?
I’m fine with criticism, yet at least try to understand what you’re criticizing. I may have to disagree with you again? Coach seems not to get hard on this team. In fact he goes out of is way to defend his team’s play. Either way he isn’t criticizing them.
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@autohawk Always
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@DanR Yeah…I’d look out for KU too, just sayin’
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@BeddieKU23 did he get shot w/a hooker?
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@DoubleDD yes. You can bank that. If they play that way against “insert tournament teams name” here for 33 minutes. I will gaurantee a loss. No that doesn’t mean they will. And no it doesn’t mean I said they will. Best thing to do is probably read all information rather than picking parts of it that only supports what you think my opinion is. I’m largely fond of this team. And if you can’t see that. Then you haven’t seen enough of my posts to make an objective reply. Either way. I couldn’t care less if you agree with my opinion. Whether you feel it to be backed up with data and info or not. I respect your opinion. You can do the same with mine or ya can’t. Really doesn’t affect me. I’m not changing my train of thought for you or anyone. And id expect nothing less than the same from you. Hey. I love your positivity. And I sincerely hope you and others keep it coming. I also hope negative opinions keep coming. I also hope realistic opinions keep coming. I love it all. This board is where it’s at. And it will continue to be as long as the individuals that make it what it is continue to do what they do. It’s all great. It’s all part of it
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It’s not about whether I agree or disagree with your opinion. It’s I don’t understand your logic. I’ve explained why I think the way I do about this team. You have yet to do so. I’ve read many of your posts. It’s pretty much KU sucks and then well KU dodged another bullet.
So if KU cuts down the nets does KU still suck? I know you say you’re quite fond of this team. Yet I have to wonder with some of your posts. Hey all I can do is read and draw conclusions.
I have to question some of your logic. In one of your previous post you make a claim that Coach is just ripping this team during timeouts. Like a jockey going to the whip way to much. However every thing I read and see. Coach is quite fond of this current team. Do you have a link where Coach is pissed off at this team and he has to brow beat them every time out? Pretty sure Coach has said this is his toughest team. So why are you right and Coach is wrong?
I guess I don’t know what is driving you? KU is number one in the nation, continued the conference winning streak, 4-0 against top 10 teams and is likely the overall number seed in the tournament. At this point in the season what more do you want?
Are you an expert on what it takes to win a National Championship? I mean KU has had the great teams you so desire and they bowed out of the tournament early. So what gives?
Anyways by all means criticize, as for me I going to enjoy the ride. Even if they play like crap for 33 minutes, then blow off the doors of the opponent.
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Well let me ask this, if our current comeback style is one that inspires belief, what about the ISU game at Allen?
There is no doubt that our “style” is a risky one.
What makes our style even more risky is that we don’t have AFH on our side in the NCAA tourney. We’ll have, most likely, a partially hostile arena (as the fans of all other teams will be rooting against the #1 seed).
We have to really win three games to get to the final four since the first one is a gimmee.
Coach Self’s quote, as noted by @Bwag, is right on point, and think goes to what @cragarhawk’s concerns … “These guys are confident, but I think they think that, whatever the situation, they can flip the switch, which is a bad trait. You get behind like this in a game that really matters and you may not and probably can’t…”
That says it all. Self knows our style is very risky in one loss and out tourney format.
Of course, our toughness is a great asset.
We’ve had all sorts of teams lose short of the final four under coach Self. Until we get there, I don’t expect that we will. It has not been the pattern for whatever reason. The pattern has been finding some way to lose, short of the final four.
All we can hope for is that this unique toughness that Self describes will be the x-factor this season.
I also think that the “good guard” theory is on our side, too. And we have one, POY Frank Mason, that can lead us to the title like so many other PGs have done for their teams. That, in my opinion, is our greatest weapon.
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@DoubleDD while I recognize that I could be wrong… cause I have been before and certainly will be again. I don’t believe I’ve said this team sucks. I don’t believe I’ve said that Coach is having to “go to the whip” too much. I don’t believe I’ve said they have no shot at winning an NC. I don’t even think I’ve said they dodged another bullet… but I will tell you I believe they have dodged some bullets. I don’t think I’m alone in that theory. I think you’ve decided to view me and everything I say as negative and that is okay. But that doesn’t make it so. And yes I am very fond of this team. I have said in agreeance with others that I like the way CS has handled this team. FM is in my top 3 of players all time of not number 1. I think Devonte is as clutch as any guard I’ve seen. JJ is far and away my favorite one and done. I’m not at all sorry that I refuse to find fault within myself for hoping they all still improve at some things down the stretch. I’m not saying a thing that I haven’t heard Coach say honestly. Promise you he thinks they can still get better at some things as well. So this idea that you have that I think I know better than he does is unfortunately just simply a fabrication of sorts. Very much in conclusion on this topic… I am enjoying this team and “the ride” probably more so than I have since 2012 and I don’t really feel I need anyone to police that for me.
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@HighEliteMajor Yep. Toughness factor and Frank.
Remember though, Tulsa for the first 2 games. Not that far away. Should have a good KU fan turn out. Then, hopefully in KC for the next two games. Basically home court advantage. Granted, its not AFH but its very close.
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@Lulufulu @HighEliteMajor I’ve kind of had a theory on this team for while now… Have not spoken it out loud as of yet. There’s no doubt they have huge grit… We all know what AFH is to every team. Every year. It’s phenomenal. Hands down in my opinion the greatest home court. But I find myself asking if this team is actually a better road/neutral team. Or maybe they can just recognize they have to turn it up a lil more sometimes to compensate the lack of the Phog. I do realize that the game in Morgantown would not support this theory. Personally I throw away the Honolulu game for multiple reasons. Other than that I think there’s much evidence to support this idea. The eye test is definitely a big part of it I won’t lie. And of course the feeling that this team could very much be quite special. If so being great away from home probably is one of the requirements. The Saturday game could be an indicator or it could be nothing. It’s really not for anything at this point other than some pride. Pride we would all happily sacrifice I’d think if it meant a run to or thru Phoenix.
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If we win 1 game (as the first is a gimmee) we’ll be playing in front of a packed house full of KU fans in the Sprint Center for a chance at Phoenix… Can’t think of a bigger advantage for any team going into March.
The ISU game and how it unfolded is definitely a concern going forward, 18 3’s is exactly the recipe for beating a Bill Self squad. At least recently in the past 4 games KU’s 3 point defense has improved a good bit 29% and the points per game allowed has dropped a good amount into the 60’s. Are we seeing defensive improvement over longer stretches of time or just playing offensively challenged teams? And as I understand, 3 point defense is largely a statistic that defenses have no control over but the overall amount of points we give up has been decreasing as we get closer to tournament time which could be a positive sign?
I agree fully that our style is risky, and history suggests in the NCAA tourney a Bill Self team gets tight in situations where they are facing a deficit. I don’t know if there is a correlation to this but KU has found ways to do it on the road (not just at home in front of an imposing home court advantage) overcoming deficits @ Rupp, and @ Baylor.
At least as you’ve pointed out we have a player tough as nails with the ability to proverbially “put the team on his back”. Heck we might have 3 of those types on this squad.
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@BeddieKU23 I have to imagine the overall amount of points were scoring has come down some recently as well. I feel like that happens every year to an extent on both ends. Second half of the conference season. Playing teams for the second time. I believe it’s somewhat a by product of that. However, I will say I think this team has improved it’s defense quite a bit from the start of conference. There’s still room to do it more often… but they’ve shown they can lock down when they want to. For some long stretches too if need be.
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I have often looked at how KU has played on the road as the true “eye test” as far as March is concerned. In years past we’ve seen a Jekyll/Hyde type team on the road. This year the team has shown unbelievable poise/toughness on the road besides the one dude in Morgantown.
And while we lost to Indiana in a neutral setting we played well enough to win, we played great in MSG against Duke, we won the CBE while facing average competition. There’s plenty of evidence to suggest this team brings its game wherever it plays. I think a large part of that is the experience Mason/Graham/Lucas bring to the table. It’s something I think helps this team going into March
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I don’t know this KU team seems to play a more complete game on the road.
, yes he’s weird
