Big 12 Suspensions
-
I guess fran said he thinks Self leaves for nba.
-
I pretty much agree with the Jay Bilas response. My exception is that the refs should step in and stop a last second steal. Yes, that would have stopped this event but it is an overreach for several reasons. First… it is a slippery slope and before you know it, refs may be getting involved in outcomes that are still marginally known outcomes. Second… we have the gambling lines and I know gamblers don’t want refs to be anywhere involved in what the final score will be.
Thinking back to the brawl… there was no bad blood all through the game. Nothing. You couldn’t even tell this was a rival game. So it is clear that the players weren’t really holding much hatred/anger inside before the event took place. Knowing that… the brawl was really a “perfect storm” in how it escalated to such a crazy level so quickly. The steal was the first taunt. The Silvio stand over was the second taunt. And then it went straight downhill. I’m thinking the real gas on this fire came from players on both sides who were holding built up anxiety completely unrelated to players on the other team. With Silvio, it is clear he hasn’t had the year anyone expected, including him, and he has received plenty of criticism based on crushed expectations. Love seems to have frustration about his situation and injury. Gordon… ? And Big Mac might have some frustration, too. He must feel like he has added pressure to his game or he will get pulled for a 4-guard lineup.
All these factors seemed to fuel the “perfect storm.”
-
@drgnslayr big Dave standing up for his brother. Same for Marcus.
-
@drgnslayr Add in the facts that it happened with the clock seeming to expire and on KSU’s end of the court. Pretty sure Silvio would have still blocked it (and taunted) if it happened with 20 seconds left, but there’s no way the KSU bench players run out there with time still on the clock or if it had happened all the way on the other end of the floor. Who knows for sure.
It also didn’t really help that Fran acted like he was calling the Hindenburg disaster while it was going on. Oh, the humanity.
-
With the chair as the lasting image from this event it may not be up to Self whether Silvio is on the roster after this season.
-
Lost in the Sauce:
Illinois Alan Griffin gets suspended two games for stepping on the chest of a Purdue player during their game Tuesday.
Something was in the water on Tuesday.
-
Kcmatt7 said:
I totally forgot Saturday is College Gameday in Lawrence…
The timing of this fight couldn’t have been worse lol. It’s going to be all they talk about in the lead up to our game.
I’ll bet that the next KU/K-State game won’t be shown on ESPN+… Ka-Ching! “Hey, do you want to air a commercial during the next KU/K-State game? Remember, they had that big fight last time. Everybody will be watching!”
-
Kcmatt7 said:
I totally forgot Saturday is College Gameday in Lawrence…
The timing of this fight couldn’t have been worse lol. It’s going to be all they talk about in the lead up to our game.
Oh you know I would almost bet that will be their opening commentary and w will have to go all through the whole dam scenario all over again. Then they will talk about how KU has been Centerstage with not such good thing as of late - - per the NCAA Scandal among other things you can take it to the bank – I mean it’s ESPN - - THEY SUCK oh hell I’ve already said that lol.
-
dylans said:
Dick Vitale has doubled down on his position that Silvio should be banned for the season. Hopefully that means he is so disappointed/disgusted in KU he never announces another one of our games!!!
lol , hell there is a better chance of me becoming the Pope tomorrow then Dicky not broadcasting another KU game lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
Self is already hearing a loud message from the student body and administration: CLEAN UP BASKETBALL!
But I will hand it to Self and he has always been a players’ coach and he will stand up for Silvio if he believes Silvio will reform. JMO
-
And then there is Big Dave.
I feel like his saving grace was the lack of video footage on his feet during the fight. It sure looked like he may have got in some kicks, though it is also possible he was shuffling because there was a Wildcat at his feet. Who knows…
I do know that if a camera was down low and showed Big Dave kicking, his suspension would have been much higher, as well it should.
-
Sorry, but I have to love this statement from him on Silvio he said : I can be mad at him ( Silvio ) or say things to him in a private setting that the media won’t be privy to , BUT if my Son or Daughter made a bad emotional decision in the heat of the moment - -I don’t stop loving them. He’s ours and I’m proud that he is.
Well Said coach. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
I probably shouldn’t have… but I chuckled on your image. It might as well be us exploiting the use of the chair though I know we will be seeing it all over Kittyland when we face them in Manhattan.
I’ve already heard some things about that…
Fans have been planning how to show the chair and they can’t bring in chairs. So they want to do big posters of chairs. From what I gather, KSU administration isn’t too hip on any additional buildup of the brawl so they will ban free speech involving chairs for the game.
Anyone else have inside info from Kittyland?
-
We can all wear casts
-
@Crimsonorblue22 that will imply that we lost the fight and are broken. We are anything but.
-
@drgnslayr Don’t get me wrong - I HATE the incident that happened Tuesday. In fact, I saw the first few seconds (to process what was going on) and then I turned the channel.
But Kansas being told to CLEAN UP BASKETBALL !! ?? I don’t think there’s anything to clean up. It’s not like we’re a prison league team that brawls with everybody we play and spits on their cheerleaders. It was an isolated incident that really should have been between one KU player and one KSU player and it got out of hand.
I don’t think we need to clean up basketball. Just inform these young men that if they want to brawl, they’ll pay the price.
Just my opinion.
-
I’m sure Self will stand by his players. However the AD, Board of Regents etc probably dont feel as much of a commitment when the product (KU) has yet again been run through the media mill. It doesnt look good.
-
@jayballer73 Hard to dislike a coach who thinks and talks like this. Dude always says the right thing even if he may sometimes say too much.
-
What I’m hearing from the student body after hearing about Case, is f u KSU!
-
dylans said:
First, when the clock is running out in a blowout, let the clock run out. Don’t try for a steal. It is unnecessary. And, while the officials did a great job overall in dealing with the fight and did not make a mistake in this, I would consider calling a foul on the defender going for the steal. The offensive team was clearly trying to run out the clock. If you call the foul, you avoid a potential bad situation and discourage the same thing in the future.
This should be a point of emphasis for officials going forward.
-
@bskeet Don’t think we should change the rules for the last few seconds of games only in blowouts. What qualifies as a blow out? How many seconds can a team “dribble out the clock”? If we change the end of games we need to go to the Elam ending. Completely takes stuff like this off the table. Every possession matters until the game is over. Every game has a game winning shot. Fouling to stop the clock becomes useless.
-
@benshawks08 To be clear, it is not a rule change. A point of emphasis is an effort to enforce an existing rule to encourage behavior changes in the game.
(They’ve done this for flops, moving screens, etc. in the past)
I think it would be wise for the officials to watch closely. On replay, it’s not clear that the steal was clean.
-
@bskeet If your saying call the game the same from start to finish I agree on that. But I don’t think blowouts and dribbling out the clock should have anything special or different from regular play. But I’m honestly not that upset about the steal or the block. Clock is running, game on. Does it make the KState player look foolish, sure but that’s for him to deal with.
-
Decent coaches don’t let their players do it. Same as band directors etc!
-
Self nailed it today.
-
@BShark that’s my coach!
️
-
BShark said:
Self nailed it today.
Yes he did
-
Where’s Weber? I get that KU is a national brand and actually has to address issues, but K-State is acting just like what they are–a cling-on, always just hanging around in KU’s shadow. Man up, Weber. Your players got suspensions.
-
@DanR man? Up lol How 'bout Coach up and get off the dang court! Guarantee our safety at your place! Maybe we should run up the score just to be safe.
-
You all know me… and some of you know where I’m going now…
What will this do for our chip? Is it back?
-
drgnslayr said:
You all know me… and some of you know where I’m going now…
What will this do for our chip? Is it back?
What kind of a chip ? lol - - - - a Doritto Chip a Nacho chip ? - - A potato Chip ? - -A Poker Chip ? lol - - -just playing trying to have some light hearted fun buddy no harm meant , I know what you mean.
-
Haha… sometimes I wonder!
-
-
benshawks08 said:
@bskeet If your saying call the game the same from start to finish I agree on that. But I don’t think blowouts and dribbling out the clock should have anything special or different from regular play. But I’m honestly not that upset about the steal or the block. Clock is running, game on. Does it make the KState player look foolish, sure but that’s for him to deal with.
I totally agree about the steal and the block and the impact on the KState player.
Regarding officiating, the reality is that the game is not called the same from start to finish, so I’m not actually saying that.
It is already standard practice to have so called "points of emphasis’. Likewise, it is standard practice to vary how strictly to enforce the rules throughout the game.
For instance, if there is an event where officials think things are getting chippy… they will tend to be less tolerant and call ‘touch’ fouls to maintain control of the game. Other times, the rules are less strictly enforced and they ‘let them play’. (some say the officials ‘swallow their whistle’)
It would be consistent with current practices if NCAA officiating crews formally institute the practice of strictly enforcing any contact on steals – specifically at the end of blowouts.
-
I disagree about the block. If it had ended there, without the subsequent taunt, that would have been poetic. Block the shot and walk away. Sends the right message:
“Don’t be unsportsmanlike, young man. You can’t handle it.”
-
@tundrahok I think you are saying the block was fair game, which is what @benshawks08 and I are also saying.
The block was a basketball play and, given the steal, completely legit.
The taunt was not a basketball play and was not ok. If only he had blocked it and walked away.
-
Block the shot, help the guy up, and pat him on the shoulder and say good try little fella and wander off smiling. Done properly it’'s as effective as standing over a guy with none of the downside.
-
Lil fella!
so great that we are grown up and wise now.
-
@bskeet I meant I disagree with Bilas. He said the block was unnecessary. I thought it was awesome. At least, if had ended there.
-
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Lil fella!
so great that we are grown up and wise now.It’s hard to refrain from a dig on a guard challenging a 6’10" guy.
I mean, it’s kind of classic: the guard can steal the ball, but can’t get the shot off over the big man, so it’s a stalemate.
-
@Kubie Exactly.
-
tundrahok said:
@bskeet I meant I disagree with Bilas. He said it was unnecessary. I thought it was awesome. At least, if had ended there.
Oh! I had not heard Bilas say that. I thought in his column earlier in the week, he was not critical of the block…
Anyway, I will give him credit for being very level-headed, thoughtful and balanced on this topic. But I will agree with you that the block itself was not the problem. I might even go so far as to say it was appropriate given the steal.
Anyone criticizing the block should remember this simple equation: No steal = No block.
-
It can be BOTH unnecessary AND legitimate. Think for a moment what would have happened if Silvio’s aim on the block had been off by 6 inches and he totally creamed the guy trying to shoot, or if he had fallen and gotten injured. How many of us would say that result would have been worth the risk?
Legitimate because he accomplished it without injury to either player. I called my wife in to watch it on replay–we were laughing!–but then on the 2nd playing the aftermath became apparent.
Unnecessary because letting it go would have had no effect.
-
I’ve watched the video several times. I paid close attention to Silvio lifting up the chair over his head.
I’m convinced he never intended to hit anyone with that chair. He was posturing. It’s a cultural thing because he’s actually a chilled out guy coming from a chilled out culture.
If his intention was violence, he had time before the chair to really beat on some people. He was backing up and even though Silvio may be the strongest guy on our team I think he is harmless and has no concept of how to fight. I doubt if he has ever been in a fight before.
-
bskeet said:
tundrahok said:
@bskeet I meant I disagree with Bilas. He said it was unnecessary. I thought it was awesome. At least, if had ended there.
Oh! I had not heard Bilas say that. I thought in his column earlier in the week, he was not critical of the block…
Anyway, I will give him credit for being very level-headed, thoughtful and balanced on this topic. But I will agree with you that the block itself was not the problem. I might even go so far as to say it was appropriate given the steal.
Anyone criticizing the block should remember this simple equation: No steal = No block.
The block was never the issue. If Silvio still makes that block, lets out a yell while walking away, nothing else happens. Standing over Gordon is what sparked everything else that followed. We can blame Love for coming off the bench and he definitely deserves his fair share of blame for that, but it doesn’t mean Silvio wasn’t in the wrong standing over Gordon and taunting him as well.
-
Yes Silvio’s actions where those of a jerk, but that doesn’t make it ok to hit him. Jeez I tell my four year old this crap, you’d think adults would have it figured out.
-
@dylans No one has said that it made it “ok to hit him.” Can you find one person here who said that? The first punch being thrown was stupidity. “Ok” isn’t the discussion.
I quite sure that you teach your four year old that if you take certain actions, then certain unfortunate consequences may follow. That doesn’t make those consequences “ok.” But in life, there are experiences that tell us that consequences, “ok” or not, may follow.
What would be your reaction to the unprovoked thug-like response by Silvio to stand over him? Would you calmly look up at his junk and let the moment pass? If you were the KSU player’s teammates, would you stand by and just observe? We’ve seen folks very complimentary (and correctly so in my opinion) of KU players coming to Silvio’s side. That’s what the KSU players did in the face of Silvio thug-like response.
The punches thrown were not “ok”. But a physical confrontation after Silvio poor behavior is an expected response as would be a little pushing and shoving as part of that.
If I’m in line at the store and a woman and man in front of me are going slow, and I scream, “Come on, would you f-ing hurry up?” And the man reacts and turns and pushes me really hard in the chest, knocking me down, is that “ok.” Should he have have done that? Probably not. But is it within the realm of expected responses? Absolutely. My conduct was akin to Silvio’s in the context of the situation. A reasonable response might be the man turning, confronting me, and suggesting I shut my mouth. That’s seems about what the initial response of the KSU players was. The first punch was much, much different, much like the guy in the line at the store becoming violent and knocking me down (in the example).
There is nothing about stealing the ball and going in for a layup that would cause one to expect Silvio’s thug-like response. Nothing. Not even close to reasonable. Steals, layups and swats happen all the time.
However, when someone is standing over someone like a thug while the other is laying on the ground, it is quite expected that a confrontation may occur. Who wouldn’t expect that?
There were three events that occurred here that were completely unreasonable and completely out of the realm of reason … 1) Silvio standing over him like a thug, 2) the first punch thrown, and 3) Silvio picking up the chair.
The first act in that sequence was Silvio. The suspensions and assessment of blame that goes with that seems about perfect.
-
Can some folks read or listen to this piece please about the word “thug”? It’s a solid academic take on language and race and how those things work together and against each other. It’s not very long nor do I think it’s political in nature. Words matter.
https://www.npr.org/2015/04/30/403362626/the-racially-charged-meaning-behind-the-word-thug
-
@benshawks08 when white supremacists use the word thug I cringe. Many times people become racist without realizing it. I’ve got a video I need to post about this later when I’m home.
-
@HighEliteMajor By your logic (and as you’ve mentioned before) taunting happens all the time too but fighting and brawls don’t. We all agree the taunt was wrong but it is entirely possible To be tainted and then not fight. I would argue that is the manlier response, to have enough pride and self respect to not let someone else define your masculinity. Get up and walk away. Master your emotions. That’s what we need to be praising boys and young men for if we want to prevent things like this from happening again.
