Big 12 Suspensions
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I’m sure Self will stand by his players. However the AD, Board of Regents etc probably dont feel as much of a commitment when the product (KU) has yet again been run through the media mill. It doesnt look good.
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@jayballer73 Hard to dislike a coach who thinks and talks like this. Dude always says the right thing even if he may sometimes say too much.
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What I’m hearing from the student body after hearing about Case, is f u KSU!
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dylans said:
First, when the clock is running out in a blowout, let the clock run out. Don’t try for a steal. It is unnecessary. And, while the officials did a great job overall in dealing with the fight and did not make a mistake in this, I would consider calling a foul on the defender going for the steal. The offensive team was clearly trying to run out the clock. If you call the foul, you avoid a potential bad situation and discourage the same thing in the future.
This should be a point of emphasis for officials going forward.
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@bskeet Don’t think we should change the rules for the last few seconds of games only in blowouts. What qualifies as a blow out? How many seconds can a team “dribble out the clock”? If we change the end of games we need to go to the Elam ending. Completely takes stuff like this off the table. Every possession matters until the game is over. Every game has a game winning shot. Fouling to stop the clock becomes useless.
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@benshawks08 To be clear, it is not a rule change. A point of emphasis is an effort to enforce an existing rule to encourage behavior changes in the game.
(They’ve done this for flops, moving screens, etc. in the past)
I think it would be wise for the officials to watch closely. On replay, it’s not clear that the steal was clean.
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@bskeet If your saying call the game the same from start to finish I agree on that. But I don’t think blowouts and dribbling out the clock should have anything special or different from regular play. But I’m honestly not that upset about the steal or the block. Clock is running, game on. Does it make the KState player look foolish, sure but that’s for him to deal with.
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Decent coaches don’t let their players do it. Same as band directors etc!
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Self nailed it today.
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@BShark that’s my coach!
️
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BShark said:
Self nailed it today.
Yes he did
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Where’s Weber? I get that KU is a national brand and actually has to address issues, but K-State is acting just like what they are–a cling-on, always just hanging around in KU’s shadow. Man up, Weber. Your players got suspensions.
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@DanR man? Up lol How 'bout Coach up and get off the dang court! Guarantee our safety at your place! Maybe we should run up the score just to be safe.
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You all know me… and some of you know where I’m going now…
What will this do for our chip? Is it back?
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drgnslayr said:
You all know me… and some of you know where I’m going now…
What will this do for our chip? Is it back?
What kind of a chip ? lol - - - - a Doritto Chip a Nacho chip ? - - A potato Chip ? - -A Poker Chip ? lol - - -just playing trying to have some light hearted fun buddy no harm meant , I know what you mean.
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Haha… sometimes I wonder!
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benshawks08 said:
@bskeet If your saying call the game the same from start to finish I agree on that. But I don’t think blowouts and dribbling out the clock should have anything special or different from regular play. But I’m honestly not that upset about the steal or the block. Clock is running, game on. Does it make the KState player look foolish, sure but that’s for him to deal with.
I totally agree about the steal and the block and the impact on the KState player.
Regarding officiating, the reality is that the game is not called the same from start to finish, so I’m not actually saying that.
It is already standard practice to have so called "points of emphasis’. Likewise, it is standard practice to vary how strictly to enforce the rules throughout the game.
For instance, if there is an event where officials think things are getting chippy… they will tend to be less tolerant and call ‘touch’ fouls to maintain control of the game. Other times, the rules are less strictly enforced and they ‘let them play’. (some say the officials ‘swallow their whistle’)
It would be consistent with current practices if NCAA officiating crews formally institute the practice of strictly enforcing any contact on steals – specifically at the end of blowouts.
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I disagree about the block. If it had ended there, without the subsequent taunt, that would have been poetic. Block the shot and walk away. Sends the right message:
“Don’t be unsportsmanlike, young man. You can’t handle it.”
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@tundrahok I think you are saying the block was fair game, which is what @benshawks08 and I are also saying.
The block was a basketball play and, given the steal, completely legit.
The taunt was not a basketball play and was not ok. If only he had blocked it and walked away.
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Block the shot, help the guy up, and pat him on the shoulder and say good try little fella and wander off smiling. Done properly it’'s as effective as standing over a guy with none of the downside.
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Lil fella!
so great that we are grown up and wise now.
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@bskeet I meant I disagree with Bilas. He said the block was unnecessary. I thought it was awesome. At least, if had ended there.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Lil fella!
so great that we are grown up and wise now.It’s hard to refrain from a dig on a guard challenging a 6’10" guy.
I mean, it’s kind of classic: the guard can steal the ball, but can’t get the shot off over the big man, so it’s a stalemate.
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@Kubie Exactly.
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tundrahok said:
@bskeet I meant I disagree with Bilas. He said it was unnecessary. I thought it was awesome. At least, if had ended there.
Oh! I had not heard Bilas say that. I thought in his column earlier in the week, he was not critical of the block…
Anyway, I will give him credit for being very level-headed, thoughtful and balanced on this topic. But I will agree with you that the block itself was not the problem. I might even go so far as to say it was appropriate given the steal.
Anyone criticizing the block should remember this simple equation: No steal = No block.
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It can be BOTH unnecessary AND legitimate. Think for a moment what would have happened if Silvio’s aim on the block had been off by 6 inches and he totally creamed the guy trying to shoot, or if he had fallen and gotten injured. How many of us would say that result would have been worth the risk?
Legitimate because he accomplished it without injury to either player. I called my wife in to watch it on replay–we were laughing!–but then on the 2nd playing the aftermath became apparent.
Unnecessary because letting it go would have had no effect.
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I’ve watched the video several times. I paid close attention to Silvio lifting up the chair over his head.
I’m convinced he never intended to hit anyone with that chair. He was posturing. It’s a cultural thing because he’s actually a chilled out guy coming from a chilled out culture.
If his intention was violence, he had time before the chair to really beat on some people. He was backing up and even though Silvio may be the strongest guy on our team I think he is harmless and has no concept of how to fight. I doubt if he has ever been in a fight before.
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bskeet said:
tundrahok said:
@bskeet I meant I disagree with Bilas. He said it was unnecessary. I thought it was awesome. At least, if had ended there.
Oh! I had not heard Bilas say that. I thought in his column earlier in the week, he was not critical of the block…
Anyway, I will give him credit for being very level-headed, thoughtful and balanced on this topic. But I will agree with you that the block itself was not the problem. I might even go so far as to say it was appropriate given the steal.
Anyone criticizing the block should remember this simple equation: No steal = No block.
The block was never the issue. If Silvio still makes that block, lets out a yell while walking away, nothing else happens. Standing over Gordon is what sparked everything else that followed. We can blame Love for coming off the bench and he definitely deserves his fair share of blame for that, but it doesn’t mean Silvio wasn’t in the wrong standing over Gordon and taunting him as well.
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Yes Silvio’s actions where those of a jerk, but that doesn’t make it ok to hit him. Jeez I tell my four year old this crap, you’d think adults would have it figured out.
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@dylans No one has said that it made it “ok to hit him.” Can you find one person here who said that? The first punch being thrown was stupidity. “Ok” isn’t the discussion.
I quite sure that you teach your four year old that if you take certain actions, then certain unfortunate consequences may follow. That doesn’t make those consequences “ok.” But in life, there are experiences that tell us that consequences, “ok” or not, may follow.
What would be your reaction to the unprovoked thug-like response by Silvio to stand over him? Would you calmly look up at his junk and let the moment pass? If you were the KSU player’s teammates, would you stand by and just observe? We’ve seen folks very complimentary (and correctly so in my opinion) of KU players coming to Silvio’s side. That’s what the KSU players did in the face of Silvio thug-like response.
The punches thrown were not “ok”. But a physical confrontation after Silvio poor behavior is an expected response as would be a little pushing and shoving as part of that.
If I’m in line at the store and a woman and man in front of me are going slow, and I scream, “Come on, would you f-ing hurry up?” And the man reacts and turns and pushes me really hard in the chest, knocking me down, is that “ok.” Should he have have done that? Probably not. But is it within the realm of expected responses? Absolutely. My conduct was akin to Silvio’s in the context of the situation. A reasonable response might be the man turning, confronting me, and suggesting I shut my mouth. That’s seems about what the initial response of the KSU players was. The first punch was much, much different, much like the guy in the line at the store becoming violent and knocking me down (in the example).
There is nothing about stealing the ball and going in for a layup that would cause one to expect Silvio’s thug-like response. Nothing. Not even close to reasonable. Steals, layups and swats happen all the time.
However, when someone is standing over someone like a thug while the other is laying on the ground, it is quite expected that a confrontation may occur. Who wouldn’t expect that?
There were three events that occurred here that were completely unreasonable and completely out of the realm of reason … 1) Silvio standing over him like a thug, 2) the first punch thrown, and 3) Silvio picking up the chair.
The first act in that sequence was Silvio. The suspensions and assessment of blame that goes with that seems about perfect.
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Can some folks read or listen to this piece please about the word “thug”? It’s a solid academic take on language and race and how those things work together and against each other. It’s not very long nor do I think it’s political in nature. Words matter.
https://www.npr.org/2015/04/30/403362626/the-racially-charged-meaning-behind-the-word-thug
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@benshawks08 when white supremacists use the word thug I cringe. Many times people become racist without realizing it. I’ve got a video I need to post about this later when I’m home.
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@HighEliteMajor By your logic (and as you’ve mentioned before) taunting happens all the time too but fighting and brawls don’t. We all agree the taunt was wrong but it is entirely possible To be tainted and then not fight. I would argue that is the manlier response, to have enough pride and self respect to not let someone else define your masculinity. Get up and walk away. Master your emotions. That’s what we need to be praising boys and young men for if we want to prevent things like this from happening again.
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BShark said:
@benshawks08 when white supremacists use the word thug I cringe. Many times people become racist without realizing it. I’ve got a video I need to post about this later when I’m home.
Right, it’s might be different if the guy didn’t overtly advertise how racist he is in about every third post. At what point is enough enough with this crap? Go post that crap on stormfront or breitbart, ya know?
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I use the word thug purposefully and with intention. The meltdown is always entertaining. The glorification of the thug demands recognition of the thug. Perhaps if it wasn’t glorified some might not associate the conduct with the word.
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@HighEliteMajor Purposefully and intentionally racist. Got it. Glad your ok with that. I won’t be.
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“I use the word thug purposefully and with intention. The meltdown is always entertaining.”
Wikepedia: “In internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll’s amusement or a specific gain.”
Astounding. I have never seen anyone admit being one so aptly! I wonder if the entry can be edited to provide a link to that admission.
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@mayjay I just wish I could read about basketball without having to confront white supremacy every other day. Not sure how a person of color could stand to be on this site.
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@benshawks08 some have left.
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mayjay said:
“I use the word thug purposefully and with intention. The meltdown is always entertaining.”
Wikepedia: “In internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll’s amusement or a specific gain.”
Astounding. I have never seen anyone admit being one so aptly! I wonder if the entry can be edited to provide a link to that admission.
lmao, al I can say is Dammmmmmm , Score. - very solid, ol wikepedia CAN be useful after all. -couldn’t of been said better.
Now , that incident was last Tuesday , that all is in the past, the past is the past, you can’t change the past all you can do is look ahead - -today for today lie I said the past is the past , live today for today because tomorrow is never promised. Time to drop this , even though there are some that will still try to continue to stir the pot - -nothing can be changed & I agree 100 % with your post – some just keep wanting to go on & on & on - -I think the definition of a troll pretty well says it all -perfect example some people that’s just who they are they want to see if they can get people worked up ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG ABBY
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benshawks08 said:
Can some folks read or listen to this piece please about the word “thug”? It’s a solid academic take on language and race and how those things work together and against each other. It’s not very long nor do I think it’s political in nature. Words matter.
https://www.npr.org/2015/04/30/403362626/the-racially-charged-meaning-behind-the-word-thug
Good find.
I used the term ‘punks’ as well as ‘thugs’ because I think they describe similar behavior but have acquired racially-specific connotations over time.
Too bad there isn’t a word like ‘pungs’ or ‘thunks’ that could neutralize the racial aspects and allow us to focus on the behavior.
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“Jerk” is a good word. Or for aggressive people, “pugilistic.”
Silvio looked all pugilistic at Gordon!
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@bskeet I think the key is to just describe the behavior instead of trying to then come up with a name to call a person. It’s hard to do and often takes more words and significantly more thought, two things I don’t always have. But I think it’s worth it to try.
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@mayjay pugilist is a very underused word!
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Of course, my entire point on all of this is preservation of life. I have tried to highlight that urban areas and the violence is ignored. It’s sickening. Black lives taken in mass numbers and all folks do is blame guns and racism and whatever else is convenient to ignore the truth. Meanwhile, while their protectors and enablers wring their hands, more die. This is a great example of why things don’t change.
It doesn’t matter the logic, or the stats, or the crime maps, or proof. It doesn’t matter what we see with our own eyes and how, for example, behavior by athletes has noticeably shifted in the last 20-25 years and the me first, pound the chest, screaming, gyrating, etc. None of it matters.
None of it matters because folks don’t have the guts to discuss all options.
Done.
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@HighEliteMajor Yeah when one person says they know THE TRUTH and aren’t just saying they are friends with paul pierce I’m going to be critical. There is never ONE reason or factor to such a massive issue like the broad issue you call inner city violence. You tell people that they are ignoring what is right in front of them but do no self reflection on what you might not be able to see from your perspective. Try learning something instead of preaching for a change.
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@benshawks08 Well, I never said that. I never said one reason. I’ve fully explained my position. On the other hand, you have spent much effort suggesting my position has zero merit. Hell, when we began this a while back you were surprised at the out of wedlock birthrates I quoted, which is the core factor, in my opinion.
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@HighEliteMajor Positions that start with racism are in my book without merit so you got me there. You didn’t talk just about out of wedlock births. They were specifically black single moms that were the problem. Or was it the black men who weren’t around who were the problem? It’s hard to keep track of which black person is your problem at any given moment.
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We live in strange times.
I have to say that I really don’t like how our society hijacks words and phrases… applying some kind of definitive current, popular trend.
Thinking about “thug”… I’ve used that word (sometimes) throughout my life. It never ONCE was meant to be some sort of secret code for the “n-word.” I applied the word meaning rough people who attempt to control a situation with violence or brute force. That brute force can be non-violent. I mentioned examples in my previous post.
The constant addition of meanings to language can create problems as much as help identify problems. For example… some may now think I’m a racist because I used the word “thug.”
Look at our country right now. It’s building powder keg over stuff like this. I doubt there are many people who want to be tagged “racist.” And though they may have done something or made a statement that falls into this new prejudgment system pointing to being labeled “racist” the prejudgment in itself is the same potential “character flaw” that goes with the definition of “racist.”
My perspective is to give people the benefit of the doubt and think positively about them. It’s worked for me my entire life and I am truly blessed with many friends from all walks of life.
I hope we can move past making judgments of each other and focus on our love for Jayhawk basketball.
