We've been here before, but after last year, it feels different.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@FarmerJayhawk did you say kind words about duke?
If I did please call the nearest psychiatric hospital immediately.
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I couldn’t find those words🥽
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I keep saying this… and it deserves repeating. D1 this coming year is not prepared for Silvio! He has unbelievable strength and that was barely seen in the short time we had him on the court. He’s only gotten stronger (thanks Andrea!) and he has never played “open throttle basketball” in a Jayhawk uniform. What we really need to hear from is the rest of our players… their comments on Silvio’s strength. Duke bigs are going to look like boys… because they will be boys.
We all know that Doke is an original weapon that few teams can stand up to. Silvio will be another original weapon opposing players won’t be able to handle. Mac will be a huge help, too!
Let’s just hope our backcourt will come together nicely to make us a more complete team! I feel plenty of confidence, and it has been a long time since I’ve been this confident of our upcoming team during tomato season!
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@justanotherfan Teams are going to pack the paint against KU because like last season, KU doesn’t have a lot of proven outside shooting. Moss is not a dead eye shooter so there will be nights where KU struggles from the outside and go through significant scoring droughts.
This team will be very similar offensively to last season before Doke’s injury and that team didn’t blow bad teams out of the water. They had a lot of scoring droughts and this team will as well.
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@justanotherfan Moss 42%. Dotson 36%. Agbaji - 30%. I don’t see a problem with our perimeter. No way Agbaji shoots less than 35% from 3.
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Moss is very streaky. He shot 42% from three, but he did that in a very streaky way. A sample:
Opens the season by going a combined 1-9 from the field in games against UMKC and Green Bay. Hits 7-12 threes in his next three games versus Oregon, UConn and Alabama State.
He followed that three game stretch up with a combined 1-8 from the field against Pitt and Wisconsin, then dropped an efficient 13 (4-8, 2-3) against Michigan State and a 20 piece (8-12, 4-5) in a rivalry game against Iowa State in back to back games.
A week after that Iowa State game he went 1-4 against Northern Iowa.
Or take this five game swing during conference play:
21 vs. Illinois on 7-12 shooting, including 5 threes
2 points against Michigan State on 1-7 shooting
23 at Minnesota on 8-14 shooting with 6 threes
Back to back goose eggs at Indiana and at home against Michigan on a combined 0-11 shooting.
Of course he would follow that up with 16 against Northwestern (6-12) and 17 against Rutgers (7-12).
My point is that Moss can score for sure. But he can also disappear.
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@justanotherfan He was hurt the first 7 or 8 games of last year, and played sparingly, and his shooting suffered. No doubt he’s had his erratic moments, but he isn’t the only shooter we have.
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@KUSTEVE yeah I don’t get what some are getting at - are they saying we couldn’t use a guy who shot 50% during conference play?? Even if he is streaky, I’d take it every day.
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@HawkChamp I could be wrong on that. I’ll calculate it tonight, and give you an update. But as I recall, he shot much better after he started playing more minutes.
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People keep saying how teams will pack it in the paint this year, which MAY happen but I think it’s pretty overblown. I don’t think there’s any way we are as bad of a shooting as last year. I don’t predict that will happen at all and that circumstance occurring is the only way teams will pack it in. I understand the concern but at this juncture in time it’s pretty unfounded.
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@KUSTEVE None of those players are consistent shooters, they’re all streaky shooters like Lagerald Vick and Elijah Johnson. Moss is a player that can hit 5/6 in a game and then make 2 total 3’s during the next 3 games. That’s what his career has been and there’s no reason to think that’ll change this year. Agbaji is also a streaky shooter and I don’t expect him to be much better than 35% this season and that’s if he’s healthy all year. Dotson is the only one with potential, he last year he was too scared to pull the trigger on a lot of open 3’s. This is going to be a marginally better shooting team that last year.
I kept saying last summer this was going to be a team that struggled to score because of a lack of outside shooting. I got crapped on by a lot of people for that position and when the season started and KU was a bad shooting team that went through a lot of scoring droughts, a lot of people were shocked even though I’d been saying it for months that it would happen. This season isn’t going to be much different in that area.
There’s only going to be 2 new players in KU’s rotation this year, Moss and Silvio. This is strictly on court, but Moss isn’t an upgrade over Vick. He’s a push at best. Off the court, obviously there’s no comparison as Vick was probably the second biggest locker room cancer of a play Self has had after CJ Henry. Silvio is a down grade from Dedric on the offensive end of the floor. Silvio is a better rebounder than Dedric, but Dedric was far superior to Silvio in regards to scoring. Experience is the reason for that, but that’s reality. On defense, it remains to be seen what kind of development Silvio has made. Until proven otherwise, I would consider Silvio a down grade from Lawson.
As for replacing Grimes, it really comes down to whether or not Agbaji’s shin issues are chronic or not. I suspect it will still be an issue because Agbaji is still growing and maturing physically, he may end up similar to Wayne Selden and have to modify his game to account for leg issues.
With Marcus Garrett, a two post player system is the worst fit for his offensive game. His best work came right after the Doke injury and KU was running the 4 guard offense again and Garrett had room to drive. A two post player offense takes that element of Garrett away which is where his value on offense comes from if he’s not running point. I think Garrett ends up being the back up point once the rotation is finalized.
This is why I keep harping on Silvio having to have a consistent mid range or outside shot. If Silvio doesn’t have a consistent mid range or outside shot, the offense will take a step back this year because teams are going to pack the paint and force KU to beat them from deep just like last year. I fully expect teams to pack the paint, sit in the passing lanes, and take away the drive which hurts Dotson, Agbaji, and Garrett because driving is the biggest strength offensively for each of those players.
KU shot 35% from 3 last year, I genuinely don’t expect much improvement this year, if any. I’m calling it now, KU is going to play bully ball which is going to result in a lot of lower scoring games for KU this year.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 no, at the end of the year Dedric was turning into a detriment on the offensive end of the floor, needed a ton of shots to get twenty points and was shooting a low percentage from three. Apparently you missed how good Silvio was in the March run in 2018 and how quickly he progressed after just joining the team. He was great against Konate in the championship game and held his own against Bagley and Carter and was key in the final four run. I’ll take the potential I saw in Silvio, his on court results and assumed improvements over what we saw out of Dedric at the end of the year.
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@HawkChamp oh the slander! We needed Dedric, he was one of the only guys on the team last year that could create for himself and others. Remove him and all else stays the same and KU likely missed the tournament.
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@BShark I know that, I’m mostly referring to how I would prefer a player like Silvio over Dedric. Even in his short time playing, Silvio made several plays, like the half court ally oop against Clemson or the alley oop to end the first half against West Virginia that Dedric could never make. Silvio has more potential, more strength, more athleticism and more efficiency, hence my reply to why Silvio is a better option imo.
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@HawkChamp I didn’t miss it, I just don’t overhype his performance because of one good game. His limited minutes are getting overhyped the way Cole Aldrich as a freshmen frequently gets overhyped because of what Cole did against UNC. Silvio has a lot of potential, but until he shows he can do that consistently with extended minutes, it’s still just potential for Silvio. He won’t be what he was against WVU in the B12 tournament every game. That was an A+ game and you get A+ every game. Most games you get a C and Silvio’s C game this year is probably lower than Dedric’s C game was last season at least on offense.
Silvio played more than 15 minutes 3 times and only reached double digits in points two times. Most of his offense was limited to put backs off of misses or teams doubling Doke off of him.
The reason Dedric became less efficient as the year went on was because he was the sole focus of the offense after Doke’s injury. When you put have one guy who’s not afraid to take a shot, his numbers were going to get worse as the year went because he was wearing down because he didn’t have any help.
Don’t forget that in the NCAA Tournament, Silvio played 10, 4, 13, 26, and 10 minutes in those games. He didn’t exactly follow up that WVU game with more great games.
His NCAA performance is why I’m pumping the brakes on the Silvio hype train. Do not forget that in his 22 games, Silvio played a grand total of 175 minutes.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I know all that, I watched every game and have watched replays. Similarly, you should not forget that he was what, two months removed from high school? To do what he did in that short amount of time is a testament to his potential and learning capability.
My position remains the same - we will be a better team at the end of the year with a long, strong and athletic player like Silvio over a player like Dedric. Don’t get me wrong, I like Dedric as a player but he doesn’t raise the ceiling of a team to the extent that Silvio does.
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@HawkChamp Your key term is potential. I will not argue about the higher ceiling because Silvio absolutely has the higher ceiling. KU is not getting a 4th year Silvio with a refined game. They’re getting a Silvio with less than 200 of game time that’s likely still very raw offensively. That consistency is why I’d rather take a 4th year Dedric over the version of Silvio we’ll get this year that will likely still struggle with consistency.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 that May happen, it may not. Who knows how “refined” his game is. All I care about is progression through the year and it doesn’t sound illogical to assume Silvio will do just that. He has final four experience and a year to learn about Selfs system and practice with the team. I mean, it’s not like he was chilling on the sidelines and doing nothing but eat Snickers and listen to Kanye the whole time. Sure, he needs more game experience but he’ll get plenty of that during the season and be primed to go in March.
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@HawkChamp The E8 win against Duke in that run, Silvio played 26 minutes and scored 4 points. That’s why he won’t be Dedric Lawson. He will develop, but that takes time and there is no substitute for that. Lawson got to where he was because of on court experience. Silvio DeSousa lacks that.
Lawson was entering his junior season just like Silvio will be this year. Silvio has played 175 minutes of college basketball entering his junior season. Dedric Lawson had played 2,166 minutes of college basketball entering his junior season.
As far as practicing, yeah Silvio practiced last season, but he was scout team all year. He wasn’t running the KU offense at all in practice, he was running the other team’s offense. This matters as well because he doesn’t have the reps in the Self offense.
I think you’re getting way ahead of yourself about what Silvio will be this year because of a few good moments sprinkled in with a lot more bad moments.
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@HawkChamp Ok, I was wrong. Moss shot 33 of 67 from 3 in B10 play, which is only 49%…not 50%.
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https://twitter.com/silviodesousa5/status/1152338079484710913?s=21
On a side not Silvio looks to be in shape
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Just getting ready to post that! So dang happy for him!
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Woodrow said:
https://twitter.com/silviodesousa5/status/1152338079484710913?s=21
On a side not Silvio looks to be in shape
Mercy - - that’s like a brick shithouse without a brick missing
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@Texas-Hawk-10 And I think you’re ignoring important facts about when Silvio played.
First, with Svi, Devonte, Malik and Vick being the terrific perimeter players and shooters they were, the offense was never going to go through a freshman Silvio, nor should it have.
Secondly, you discuss point numbers yet conveniently leave out his rebounding numbers and overall low post presence, which is what we were desperately needing at the time. In the Big 12 tournament, here are his numbers -
OSU - 6 points, 8 rebounds
KSU - 8 points, 11 rebounds
WVU - 16 points, 10 rebounds
I’ll give it to you that he didn’t do much against Penn or Seton Hall, but here are his numbers against Clemson and Duke -
Clemson - 9 points, 6 rebounds
Duke - 4 points, 10 rebounds
To me, those are all really solid numbers and absolutely took care of the need. If he posted numbers like that in that short amount of time, I’m confident that he has potential to do more. I’m not sure why this is something that would even be brought up for debate by anyone who paid attention to the games at the time.
Thirdly, you say that there were plenty of bad moments - uh, duh, he was two months removed from high school and joined during conference season! Yeah, he was on a steep learning curve that was a very unique situation and yet he improved a lot and played great for us on the way to the Big 12 tournament championship and a final four run.
Given on court time, Silvio WILL get there and impact the team in more diverse ways than Dedric ever did. Remember, scoring is important but there is more to it than that. There is a reason dragonslayr has been talking a lot about the physicality of our frontcourt with Dok, Dave and Silvio. Did we have that last year with no Dok and Silvio? Absolutely not. It was soft as a kitten’s fur in that department, which is part of what Dedric does not contribute. I know Silvio will likely not score as many points as Dedric per game, but it’s the other facets of his game that this year’s team will reap the benefits of.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I think Silvio gets 20 minutes a game, max…simply because of what silvio lacks- a mid-range game. They interviewed Coach Self a few weeks ago, and asked him who had made the biggest improvements of anyone on the team this summer, and he said…hands down it was Dave. He said there is absolutely no question that Dave was our best big shooter by far. Dave could make the Silvio worry moot. And I think he will. Now, you’ll probably fire back that Dave is not all that and a bag of chips, but you won’t convince me otherwise. In fact, I think you’re going to be surprised how good Silvio looks, too.
You compared Moss to Vick, and then missed the boat on the most important difference between Vick and Moss: Moss ain’t gonna quit on the team. Advantage Moss.
Saying 3 point shooters are streaky is like saying that water is wet. We could say that about Devonte, Malik, and Svi. One would have a good game while the rest couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn that night. Very few times did all three just murder it in a game. My point is that we have guys that can make 3s. Moss will never be as open as he is in our offense. In the Iowa offense, he had to create every shot. He’s going to die and go to heaven being fed the ball being completely wide open. Maybe Ochai is injury prone, and never gets there. But, maybe he manages better this year with full awareness of the symptoms, and knows when to back off better than he did the first time it happened. Maybe he manages 25-30 minutes. I’m betting 35% or better from 3 because he can flat shoot. I like JW too. McBride…Braun are no slouches…and one of these days, Marcus is going to put it together. Then you add the best basketball coach in college, and you have a formula for a deep run.
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@KUSTEVE Dave isn’t going to be playing alongside Doke much, if at all, he’s going to be the back up for Doke which means him and Silvio likely play together quite a bit as well. I do think the spacing will be better with Dave and Silvio together because of Dave’s mid range ability. My big concern with Dave is his rebounding ability because it was awful last year. That has to get better for him to see a significant uptick in his minutes.
You also need to go back and re-read my Vick/Moss comparison because I specifically said on the court, I did not mention off the court because I’ve already called Vick the second biggest cancer KU has had under Self. I wasn’t a big fan of bringing Vick back last year because of his baggage.
Saying a 3 point shooter streaky is like saying water is wet is not a good analogy. There is a difference in the type of outside shooter players like Vick and Moss are compared to what Svi, Graham, and Mason were as shooters. A bit streak for a streaky shooter may be something like hitting 60 or 70% over a 2-3 game stretch like we saw with Vick early last season. A cold streak for a streaky shooter is going to be hitting about 20% over a several game stretch.
Consistent shooters like Svi, Graham, and Mason don’t tend to spike as much either way during hot or cold stretches. That’s the difference between a streaky shooter and a consistent shooter.
Wilson, McBride, and Braun can shoot, but they won’t be factors in the rotation so they don’t add much this year. In a couple of seasons, those guys will probably challenge the '17 and '18 teams for made 3’s, but they aren’t ready yet.
As for Garrett he’s never going to be a good shooter. Just look as his FT% and tell me why we should expect him to ever find a consistent shot. His ceiling is about 33% as a deep shooter. Garrett is a slasher, not a shooter.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Hope your wrong but that’s a strong take. I have the same concerns.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@KUSTEVE Dave isn’t going to be playing alongside Doke much, if at all, he’s going to be the back up for Doke which means him and Silvio likely play together quite a bit as well. I do think the spacing will be better with Dave and Silvio together because of Dave’s mid range ability. My big concern with Dave is his rebounding ability because it was awful last year. That has to get better for him to see a significant uptick in his minutes.
You also need to go back and re-read my Vick/Moss comparison because I specifically said on the court, I did not mention off the court because I’ve already called Vick the second biggest cancer KU has had under Self. I wasn’t a big fan of bringing Vick back last year because of his baggage.
Saying a 3 point shooter streaky is like saying water is wet is not a good analogy. There is a difference in the type of outside shooter players like Vick and Moss are compared to what Svi, Graham, and Mason were as shooters. A bit streak for a streaky shooter may be something like hitting 60 or 70% over a 2-3 game stretch like we saw with Vick early last season. A cold streak for a streaky shooter is going to be hitting about 20% over a several game stretch.
Consistent shooters like Svi, Graham, and Mason don’t tend to spike as much either way during hot or cold stretches. That’s the difference between a streaky shooter and a consistent shooter.
Wilson, McBride, and Braun can shoot, but they won’t be factors in the rotation so they don’t add much this year. In a couple of seasons, those guys will probably challenge the '17 and '18 teams for made 3’s, but they aren’t ready yet.
As for Garrett he’s never going to be a good shooter. Just look as his FT% and tell me why we should expect him to ever find a consistent shot. His ceiling is about 33% as a deep shooter. Garrett is a slasher, not a shooter.
I think your just flat grossly mis stating fact if you think Wilson won’t be a factor - your WAY under estimating Wilson
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@jayballer73 Where are his minutes going to come from? This is the type of team where Self typically has a very short leash with freshmen.
Just about every scouting report on Wilson talks about him being a better scorer than shooter at this point so I wouldn’t expect him to light world in fire with his shooting right away. He was also described as a good athlete which means he’s a step slow compared to the top recruits where you would see the term great or elite athlete.
There’s a reason he was ranked 50ish in a weak recruiting class. He’s nowhere near a polished product and he’s going to need time to get to where he can be which I think is somewhere between Marcus Morris and Perry Ellis. Those players needed time as well to become what they became at KU.
Best case for Jalen Wilson this year is the 4th big man which historically means 7-8 mpg because he isn’t jumping Doke, Silvio, or Dave in the rotation barring injury. If Lightfoot doesn’t redshirt, then Wilson is a non factor this year in the rotation and would only see spot minutes in mop up time because he wouldn’t be ahead of Lightfoot either.
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@jayballer73 We know historically that Self prefers a 7 or 8 man rotation once he trims the rotation for B12 play. Injuries can mess that rotation up obviously, but this is assuming no injuries.
KU has a full 13 man roster of scholarship players so that means 5 or 6 scholarship players will not be in that rotation. We also know redshsirting is a possibility, but we won’t know who actually does or doesn’t until much later so I’m ignoring that right now. Just so everyone is clear, the 3 redshirt possibilities this season would be Lightfoot, Braun, and Harris.
I think only of the starting spots are guaranteed at this point and that’s Dotson and Doke. The other two perimeter spots will be between Agbaji, Garrett, and Moss and the other post spot will be between Silvio and McCormack.
I think the best line up for KU would be Dotson, Moss, Agbaji, Silvio, and Doke. I say this because Marcus Garrett can play 1-4 so he can sub for anyone if KU wanted to go 4 guards. I would have Dave off the bench because he can sub for either post position.
That’s 7 players right there, that means there’s maybe 1 more rotation spot available. Depending on how Self uses Garrett, that 8th rotation spot is likely the back up PG spot. That’s a battle between McBride and Harris for that role.
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@KUSTEVE I agree, and people are saying that defenses are going to pack it in. Pack it in with who and against whom? Our frontcourt is made of men and deep, and we will have shooters waiting outside.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Dave has a ways to go as a big. But, when I hear Coach Self raving about him the way he did this summer, it tells me something is happening enough for the coach to say “hands down” the most growth in the summer. Maybe some shooting range, maybe some improved ball skills, maybe some better rebounding. These players aren’t stationary bicycles- they grow…they improve.
I think you’ve been crooning over Dedric’s 19ppg so much, you aren’t realizing that his points will be replaced. They are always replaced. Might not be one guy picking up the slack, but I guarantee you Bill’s offense will always score what they normally score. In fact, because we have to make up for one big scoring guy, that makes our offense more diverse, and harder to defend. After Perry graduated, we all said where are the points going to come from now that Perry is gone, and we managed. We wonder every year where the points are going to come from ( unless we have returning top scorers), and every year, Bill manages to figure it out. It is why he is in the Hall of Fame.
Maybe it’s a hodgepodge of 3 point shooters that carry us when we need it. Maybe it’s Moss one night, Dotson the next time, and Agbaji the next. Maybe our frontline allows to us play more aggressively, and we pick up some cheapies off our defense. Cheapies we weren’t getting last year because our defense sucked so badly. Maybe the improved rebounding allows us to have more possessions than last year, and so the “live and die by the 3 when they pack in the lane and we shoot badly” meme doesn’t hold as much water. Maybe the question isn’t “how is KU going to score” as relevant as “how are we going to score on KU”??? . Remember, there’s more than one way to skin a wildcat.
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Dedrick was pretty good and KU would’ve been up the creek without him. But don’t forget a “refined” Dedrick dropped a couple goose eggs as the focal point in the post. Silvio and his positive energy will be a nice change.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 Where are his minutes going to come from? This is the type of team where Self typically has a very short leash with freshmen.
Just about every scouting report on Wilson talks about him being a better scorer than shooter at this point so I wouldn’t expect him to light world in fire with his shooting right away. He was also described as a good athlete which means he’s a step slow compared to the top recruits where you would see the term great or elite athlete.
There’s a reason he was ranked 50ish in a weak recruiting class. He’s nowhere near a polished product and he’s going to need time to get to where he can be which I think is somewhere between Marcus Morris and Perry Ellis. Those players needed time as well to become what they became at KU.
Best case for Jalen Wilson this year is the 4th big man which historically means 7-8 mpg because he isn’t jumping Doke, Silvio, or Dave in the rotation barring injury. If Lightfoot doesn’t redshirt, then Wilson is a non factor this year in the rotation and would only see spot minutes in mop up time because he wouldn’t be ahead of Lightfoot either.
Well he and Doke play totally different positions - Dave and him play totally different positions so that eliminates him - - Silvio gonna be playing the 4 if not the 5 - - Jalen gonna be seeing more then enough time between the 2 and the 3 - – Jalen has a nice stroke and yes he IS a scorer. - -Evan Daniels said multiple times that Jalen was a very overlooked rated player saying he should of been rated at least 10 higher
sit back and watch he gonna be much more playing factor then what your talking about. - He gonna between the two/three will be getting 13-14 minutes a game - -just watch. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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If Jalen Wilson plays a meaningful second at the 2 I will buy you a whole case of beer brother.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 We know historically that Self prefers a 7 or 8 man rotation once he trims the rotation for B12 play. Injuries can mess that rotation up obviously, but this is assuming no injuries.
KU has a full 13 man roster of scholarship players so that means 5 or 6 scholarship players will not be in that rotation. We also know redshsirting is a possibility, but we won’t know who actually does or doesn’t until much later so I’m ignoring that right now. Just so everyone is clear, the 3 redshirt possibilities this season would be Lightfoot, Braun, and Harris.
I think only of the starting spots are guaranteed at this point and that’s Dotson and Doke. The other two perimeter spots will be between Agbaji, Garrett, and Moss and the other post spot will be between Silvio and McCormack.
I think the best line up for KU would be Dotson, Moss, Agbaji, Silvio, and Doke. I say this because Marcus Garrett can play 1-4 so he can sub for anyone if KU wanted to go 4 guards. I would have Dave off the bench because he can sub for either post position.
That’s 7 players right there, that means there’s maybe 1 more rotation spot available. Depending on how Self uses Garrett, that 8th rotation spot is likely the back up PG spot. That’s a battle between McBride and Harris for that role.
I agree with Devon and Doke for the starting. - I think your gonna see a lot of Devon - - - and Doke - - - -Moss - - - - - -Silvio - -& Jalen combinations. - - -
I feel that chances are we will see Marcus actually getting the start a lot of times at the 3 - and then relieving Devon when he needs a spot rest at the 1 - -don’t see Marcus playing anytime at the 4 - -I think we will see Agbaji backing Moss or visa versa at the 2 - -and even Jalen getting some at the 2 - -I think Jalen will see quality minutes at the 3 - -and Dave backing Doke at the 5 and Mitch backing Silvio at the 4 - or you can adjust according with the bigs between the 4 and 5. - -With Mitch playing some 5 - - - your not gonna see Jalen playing any 5 you can take that to the bank in College. Jalen is gonna get his minutes. - -A big reason Coach has only played 7 or 8 is he hasn’t had a full compliment of quality players like this coming year.
He has had 1-2 super studs on the roster but he has actually 13 quality players 3-4 yr players well except for Doke who is a Senior and Devon who will be gone after this year. - -I really feel he is going to use his depth more this year - -he could actually go 2 deep over the entire line up - - -not that he will obviously , I just think your gonna see more then the 7 players I think you will see him going more or leaning more towards 9 this year
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BShark said:
If Jalen Wilson plays a meaningful second at the 2 I will buy you a whole case of beer brother.
lmao - - - BUD LITE PLEASE lol - - ya - -Most of Jalen’s minutes will be at the 3 - -but HE WILL get minutes - - more then 8-9 a game - even if you have to combine the two positions. - - BUD LITE - - BUD LITE - and very cold please - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I like the confidence! I think he will mostly play at the 4, possibly get some time at the wing later. But with his athleticism he is more of a 4 in Bill’s system. But the kind that draws away from the basket with a face up game like Perry and Marcus.
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@jayballer73 Yeah, definitely ice cold. No lukewarm beer, please.
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@KUSTEVE KU only scored 75 ppg last season. This is not some elite scoring team KU is returning. Considering this team is made up of mostly the same group as last season expect for two players (the two leading scorers), one of whom is not an offensive upgrade, wondering about points is a valid concern since it was a struggle last season at times.
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@jayballer73 How much video on Wilson have you watched? He is not athletic enough to guard on the perimeter. Jalen Wilson will not see a single minute at the 2 during his time at KU.
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Marco said:
@jayballer73 Yeah, definitely ice cold. No lukewarm beer, please.
oh ya - -ICE COLD - -goes down really nice on really hot days - and after that 1st one on hot days - - look out lol
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 How much video on Wilson have you watched? He is not athletic enough to guard on the perimeter. Jalen Wilson will not see a single minute at the 2 during his time at KU.
we shall see - - but I have seen enough to stick with what I said - -Jalen will FOR SURE get more minutes then what you project. - -Bshark - saying he thinks he plays at the 4 spot - -so even if he doesn’t see a minute at the 2 like you say - which actually I’ve NEVER seen him playing there either that much - -but very strong about him playing the 3 - - so even I he plays mostly at the 3 - -then backs Silvio at the 4 he STILL getting more minutes. - -Jalen gonna see ALOT of time at the 3
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@jayballer73 Whoever doesn’t start among Garrett, Agbaji, and Moss is getting the back up minutes on the wing. Jalen Wilson isn’t playing nearly as many minutes as you think he will this season. He’s a solid prospect, but there’s a reason he’s ranked as low as he was in a weak class. He’ll be a nice player in years 2 and beyond, but he won’t average more than 7-8 minutes this year and that’s only if Lightfoot redshirts. If Lightfoot doesn’t redshirt, Wilson will average less than 5 mpg.
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If I’m not mistaken, Moss is a 40+% shooter from trey. Yes… he can be inconsistent. Every player is from trey. I watch Steph Curry go 2 for 12, then go net 8 in a row. It’s the nature of trey shooting… hot, cold, hot. What counts is the %.
You are putting up a solid argument. But you don’t account for the positive unknowns. Mostly… we have a HOFr coach. It’s his job to tweak the offense to make things work.
I definitely see Moss as an improvement over Vick and Q. Moss has many offensive weapons. Vick was only a trey shooter. Vick’s shot stopped falling because teams would scout him. Really easy… get in his grill on the trey line and he’s done. He wouldn’t drive on those opportunities because he became a very non-aggressive player. Q wasn’t a threat from trey or to drive. Zero! Surely Moss will play with more aggression.
I don’t want to bag on Vick… I still like Vick a lot. But we were a better team without him. That speaks volumes. And though our depth chart fell… I felt like we would have been a much better team without Q. Total liability.
Watch the clip on Moss scoring all those points in like a minute and a half. He surely has some alpha dog in him to do that… something no other D1 player has ever done.
I like your commentary on many of the new guys and trying to throttle down immediate expectations. Wise. We never know if one or more of those guys can end up giving us a solid contribution in year 1, but we just can’t count on that. I know I don’t, but I’m still extremely optimistic about this team!
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@drgnslayr Isaiah Moss had a PER of 14 last season. That’s the same as Mitch Lightfoot last season. Moss shot a pathetic 38% from 2 point range last season.
Off the court and character wise, Moss is an upgrade over Vick, there’s no arguing that part of the equation and that’s why Moss is a net upgrade over Vick. As far as actually basketball ability goes however, Moss is not a better player than Vick. Moss had 14 games last season where failed to make a 3 pointer. 8 of those 0-fer games were in Iowa’s last 16 games of the season. 4 of those 16 games, he didn’t make a single FG the entire game. Go look at the game logs for Moss and you will see a picture of inconsistency on offense.
Moss does not drive well or take many shots inside the arc. Moss took 162 FGA last season, 114 of those were from 3 point range. I’ll be honest, if someone gave me the choice between Lagerald Vick without the baggage or Isaiah Moss, I’d take Vick every time.
There will be moments this season where people are wondering why the hell did Self bring him in, just be ready for it.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 well that is depressing!
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Man TexasHawk is certainly on a mission this summer to crush any hope of optimism or positivity that we all are craving after the debacle that was last season. How dare we be excited and hopeful that things are better. Shame on us!
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drgnslayr said:
If I’m not mistaken, Moss is a 40+% shooter from trey. Yes… he can be inconsistent. Every player is from trey. I watch Steph Curry go 2 for 12, then go net 8 in a row. It’s the nature of trey shooting… hot, cold, hot. What counts is the %.
You are putting up a solid argument. But you don’t account for the positive unknowns. Mostly… we have a HOFr coach. It’s his job to tweak the offense to make things work.
I definitely see Moss as an improvement over Vick and Q. Moss has many offensive weapons. Vick was only a trey shooter. Vick’s shot stopped falling because teams would scout him. Really easy… get in his grill on the trey line and he’s done. He wouldn’t drive on those opportunities because he became a very non-aggressive player. Q wasn’t a threat from trey or to drive. Zero! Surely Moss will play with more aggression.
I don’t want to bag on Vick… I still like Vick a lot. But we were a better team without him. That speaks volumes. And though our depth chart fell… I felt like we would have been a much better team without Q. Total liability.
Watch the clip on Moss scoring all those points in like a minute and a half. He surely has some alpha dog in him to do that… something no other D1 player has ever done.
I like your commentary on many of the new guys and trying to throttle down immediate expectations. Wise. We never know if one or more of those guys can end up giving us a solid contribution in year 1, but we just can’t count on that. I know I don’t, but I’m still extremely optimistic about this team!
This +100. How some people (not mentioning any names lol) forget that Vick was often a liability on defense, something that Moss is known for being good at. I would take solid D and the percentage he shot last year in conference play, however inconsistent, every day of the week. To me, this is a no-brainer.
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KUSTEVE said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Dave has a ways to go as a big. But, when I hear Coach Self raving about him the way he did this summer, it tells me something is happening enough for the coach to say “hands down” the most growth in the summer. Maybe some shooting range, maybe some improved ball skills, maybe some better rebounding. These players aren’t stationary bicycles- they grow…they improve.
I think you’ve been crooning over Dedric’s 19ppg so much, you aren’t realizing that his points will be replaced. They are always replaced. Might not be one guy picking up the slack, but I guarantee you Bill’s offense will always score what they normally score. In fact, because we have to make up for one big scoring guy, that makes our offense more diverse, and harder to defend. After Perry graduated, we all said where are the points going to come from now that Perry is gone, and we managed. We wonder every year where the points are going to come from ( unless we have returning top scorers), and every year, Bill manages to figure it out. It is why he is in the Hall of Fame.
Maybe it’s a hodgepodge of 3 point shooters that carry us when we need it. Maybe it’s Moss one night, Dotson the next time, and Agbaji the next. Maybe our frontline allows to us play more aggressively, and we pick up some cheapies off our defense. Cheapies we weren’t getting last year because our defense sucked so badly. Maybe the improved rebounding allows us to have more possessions than last year, and so the “live and die by the 3 when they pack in the lane and we shoot badly” meme doesn’t hold as much water. Maybe the question isn’t “how is KU going to score” as relevant as “how are we going to score on KU”??? . Remember, there’s more than one way to skin a wildcat.
This man gets it. Well said @KUSTEVE
