Light at the end of the tunnel....
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One last added thing about Doke.
I think we tend to focus on his weaknesses a little too much. I’m guilty as well. His bully ball game in the post is definitely a throw back to past generations. Self will incorporate the lob back into some regular set plays with him back. After his injury we lacked a real above the rim threat in the worst way. Nobody was throwing D Law a lob with his jumping ability (or lack of). The guards now have the ability to just throw it up.
Azubuike is a guy that can get his own shot. While he’s dependent on a post entry he will be used a lot when we need points. A guy that can make 70% of his shots. I don’t think we could put Charlie Moore’s, Quentin Grimes & Marcus Garrett %'s together and get 70% shooting. That part of his game is so underappreciated. I never would have thought when he came to KU he’d be this efficient at what he does.
Having said all that its Self’s job to fit the pieces around him. It’s his job to sign some kids that can create floor spacing and stretch the court. He has a 1st team PG and 1st team C and everything in between needs to be planned to fit and compliment those two players. If he wants Azubuike’s impact to max out he needs to bring guys in that will maximize that opportunity
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@BeddieKU23 Dave was still an All-American. I’m not sold that he’s thinking he’s a 4 year player. Hope so.
I definitely focus on Doke’s weaknesses, but I’m trying this year to be realistic about where we stand, relying somewhat on others to speak of the positives re: Doke
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4 guards and Doke. Let him smoother with screens and run to the rim. Backside cuts, flares, and lobs with the other guards. David would fit this role as well. I’m not sure how I’d feel about them both on the floor. Clog city.
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@BigBad You can run a sparkling offense with two back to the basket bigs. Conscious of spacing, angles, etc. The dilemma for defenses is that if you sag and help toward the other big, a big can take two or three steps and post up, choosing his own angle. That’s a major threat you can’t concede. It’s much different than having a 4, for example, that is not a true threat to post up. Our example might be Traylor. Zero shooting ability. He was a true clogger because the way to guard him was to sag off … because his threat was driving. Teams killed us sagging off of Traylor. I think defenses welcomed any of his attempts to post up. He was no threat there.
Sure, I’d rather have flex out 4 that can post and shoot. But we don’t have that. And I’d rather have Dave on the floor as second big, than Garrett as a fourth perimeter player.
Self won’t do it. Self is way too married to his man–to-man, and he doesn’t have the fortitude to force teams to match up with him. This can work with a 3-2 zone (and our perimeter defense would be better – I guess it can’t get worse).
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We probably do put too much emphasis on KU’s weaknesses (I know I do), but that is because that’s what will end our season. You can focus quite a bit on strengths when you have a team that you don’t expect a national title out of. You know you are going to take some losses, but can enjoy the rest. When you have championship aspirations, those marginal things matter.
Think about the Royals for a second. Their bullpen is awful, and the starting pitching is pretty suspect. The lineup probably isn’t productive enough in the lower third. But because this is, at best, a 70 win team, the fact that they may win 5 or 10 fewer games because of those specific weaknesses is kind of irrelevant. You can just enjoy Gordon being a savant in left, Mondesi’s speed, Soler’s power, etc. This isn’t a playoff team, so blowing games here and there doesn’t matter as much.
If the Royals were a contender, any one of the flaws I listed above would be all we could talk about because the starting pitching, bullpen or weak lower third of the lineup could be the team’s ultimate undoing. But this team isn’t good enough for those flaws to derail them because they don’t have enough strengths yet. We bemoaned Yost’s tactical mistakes in 2013-2015 because that was something that could have cost a really talented team a chance at the mountaintop.
That’s where KU is, except it’s an every year thing. We have a chance at the mountaintop, which highlights flaws rather than emphasizing strengths.
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Adidas deal being finalized can’t hurt, just saying.
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approxinfinity said:
@BeddieKU23 Dave was still an All-American. I’m not sold that he’s thinking he’s a 4 year player. Hope so.
I definitely focus on Doke’s weaknesses, but I’m trying this year to be realistic about where we stand, relying somewhat on others to speak of the positives re: Doke
I feel confident saying Dave is a different type of All-American that had different expectations coming in. He wasn’t always a top recruit and it wasn’t until he changed his body, won a championship on his AAU squad and played on a loaded Oak-Hill team did he get recognition that some carry their entire HS career. This is a high character kid that comes from a good family and values his education. My expectation is he stays all 4 years and leaves a beloved Hawk
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@BeddieKU23 Yes, he can - bigtime! An absolute inside/outside monster.
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BeddieKU23 said:
approxinfinity said:
@BeddieKU23 Dave was still an All-American. I’m not sold that he’s thinking he’s a 4 year player. Hope so.
I definitely focus on Doke’s weaknesses, but I’m trying this year to be realistic about where we stand, relying somewhat on others to speak of the positives re: Doke
I feel confident saying Dave is a different type of All-American that had different expectations coming in. He wasn’t always a top recruit and it wasn’t until he changed his body, won a championship on his AAU squad and played on a loaded Oak-Hill team did he get recognition that some carry their entire HS career. This is a high character kid that comes from a good family and values his education. My expectation is he stays all 4 years and leaves a beloved Hawk
Part of the reason that Big Dave wasn’t an elite recruit until very late in his career is that he was never an elite athlete and, until late in his HS career, wasn’t all that refined as an interior player. That meant that he wasn’t on a lot of radars until much later on. Big Dave was just another big kid until he worked on his body and refined his skills inside. He’s not an athletic freak. That, along with the changing pro game, means he’s probably here for three years, if not four anyway.
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Also true, his game picked up as he lost weight and shaped his body. His hard work and determination has him on the right path still. He was sitting around the Top 100 before his transformation really kicked in at Oak Hill. By the end of his Jr year on AAU he was up into the Top 50. Had a strong AAU season, won an Adidas title. Oak Hill probably helped him make the burger game in a down recruiting year. Wasn’t a deep position group either.
Hopefully he isn’t deterred by Azubuike’s return. These are the type of situations soft kids tend to run away from
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In a good class Dave is somewhere around 60-80. Honestly he is the kind of program big that I think we want/need.
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Watching biggus davus, he looks like a bull in a china shop… he throws himself around with hyper-abandon, and looks very raw in his skills. To me he doesn’t look athletically refined at all and I wonder how much of that is improvable in 3 remaining years he would have here. obviously lots of drills and repetitive practice should hone his moves and touch, but I personally wouldn’t be surprised if his offensive skills top out a bit above the the Landen Lucas level
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A few thoughts after reading through all of these comments. Great stuff from everyone by the way!
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Doke being back is the best news I have heard from a potential loss to pro sports since Devonte said he was coming back. Devonte is obviously the far more dynamic player and leader but Doke is a unique talent and his senior year will be special if he stays healthy. I’m excited to see him dunk on people. His dunks are as powerful as you will see at the college level.
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I love Big Dave and what he brings. I actually think there will be odd times where he is in the game at the same time as Doke. That will be a big and lumbering group but we have seen it work in recent years. The UNC vs. Zaga final a couple of years ago comes to mind. It won’t happen often but it will happen. I plan to be talking about Big Dave a lot all season long.
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Devon is back. Let’s be honest. He is not on any draft boards. He is going to come back and be the BMOC at KU. How do you do anything other than stay at KU and improve your stock? He could be one of the top 5 PG’s in the country next year. Maybe work his way into a 1st round guy. Control the tempo of the game. Play great D. Improve your 3 point shot. Throw oops to Doke. Draft stock will go way up.
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Speaking of coming back. Is there any chance Grimes is back? Who drafts this kid? He has zero NBA level skills. He might be our biggest OAD dud ever. At least one who played. Throw the guys who sat the bench due to NCAA rules out of the equation. Maybe Selby was more of a bust? It really is hard to imagine how he makes a pro roster even if it is outside of the NBA.
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@joeloveshawks I know little of basketball strategy, but advanced stats suggest Garrett was actually better than Grimes. Addition by subtraction possibly.
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@dylans Well said. I am not even sure I would want Grimes back now that you mention it. At least Garrett is a lock down defender when healthy. He might be the only top 10 kid we have ever had that I literally forgot was on our team half the time. I would be an hour into a game and think to myself “who is that guy” and then say “oh, it’s Grimes, man he sucks” somewhat often. Passive on offense. Can’t dribble. Can’t take it to the hoop. Very streaky shooter. Occasionally missing from the stat sheet. Maybe we should just move on. Sad that his one stop on the way to playing professional ball (wherever that may be) didn’t do anyone any good, including himself.
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@joeloveshawks All jokes aside, I did that myself! Caught myself on several occasions saying, “damn, is Grimes finally waking up?,” only to realize - after he had burnt the red shirt - that it was Agbaji. I called it early on, Grimes as a complete bust. He plays heavy, has no true basketball quickness and does not have a good handle. His midrange game is non-existant, and his three point shot needs alot of work. His defense? Hardly none, doesn’t move his feet fast enough and looks heavy. His skill set was vastly overrated by the prognosticators. Does he think that the NBA is going to draft him and let him work on his game for several years from the comforts of his own driveway while getting paid to ride the pine? I don’t get it, but am glad that he is leaving.
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I’m thinking if Big Mac hustles in practice like he hustles in games… he will show considerable improvement every year he comes back!
I’d like to see him in dance lessons. He mostly needs footwork.
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My biggest hope for Dave this season is the game slows down for him. He was always in hyper active mode. Even a simple post entry he’d make difficult. You can’t question his effort out there. Sitting behind Doke another season doesn’t accelerate the hopes I have though. We’ll see. He’ll provide quality depth which we need desperately
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@drgnslayr Interesting take, dance lessons. That would probably work.
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Dance lessons are definitely the best tool for anyone needing help with footwork since it completely focuses on footwork.
I think many would be surprised about this next comment… the NFL has been onto this for decades! People don’t realize how footwork is so vital to that sport. The league has recognized dance as a key training component.
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Dotson
Hampton
Garrett (for me Agbaji would start but idk with Billy)
Silvio or Holyfield
Udoka
Immediate bench
Agbaji
McCormack
Lightfoot
Development bench
Enaruna
Braun
McBride
Is probably getting back to winning the B12 and would definitely be a FF threat.
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@BShark One important item — we have to sign someone first.
Starting Garrett over Agbaji would be a sick joke. But Ned plays Chris Owings and Lucas Duda, so there are sicker things.
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@BShark What do you think? Personally, I think I’d prefer Holyfield over De Sousa.
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So, first the Bulls rumor was squelched.
Now: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26634254/popovich-negotiating-new-contract-spurs
Not that I think the Spurs would turn to Self but obviously that will always be a rumor due to Buford.
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Everyone is talking about us getting both Hampton and Walker. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren’t they both PGs? I don’t think that we’ll get both. Do think that we will land Hampton or Walker (whoever commits first and I think it will be Hampton) and Tucker, though.
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Marco said:
Everyone is talking about us getting both Hampton and Walker. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren’t they both PGs? I don’t think that we’ll get both. Do think that we will land Hampton or Walker (whoever commits first and I think it will be Hampton) and Tucker, though.
Walker isn’t really an actual PG. He’s a BIG power guard.
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He’s a PG in the same way Wayne Selden was a PG. Definitely more a 3 than 1.
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Won’t hurt to have a guard that can facilitate as well. Position less Basketball
