Poor Silvio
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@kjayhawks You’re right, he did inherit this. We just don’t know how he steered the ship, or his role, after arriving. We only know what we hear.
@KUSTEVE One thing to consider. In legal proceedings, there is a process for a Motion to Dismiss. That is at an early stage. But to get the dismissal, you have to assume the allegations of the other side to be true, and thus the judge would rule that the case cannot proceed even on the alleged facts. That may be a bit of what’s going on here. KU wanted a resolution. So to do so, they had to accept the concept of Gassnola being a booster. Essentially, assuming the worst case fact scenario, can we get him reinstated? If Gassnola is really a booster?
That an attempt to provide a possible explanation.
That aside, you don’t do that when the adversary can use the admission against you, just as it appears that they did. That is very hard for me to fathom. Now, what I don’t know for sure is if the NCAA used that “admission” against us, or if they made that independent determination.
If they did use the admission against us, I’m not quite sure what to say at this point.
Why would we have to make such an admission if it could be the dagger that delivers the death shot?
Long called a it hypothetical. It’s not a hypothetical if the “admission” is used against you.
Again, this is just spit ballin’ a bit.
When this first came out and read the NCAA statement, I didn’t comprehend that Gassnola and the “booster” were one in the same.
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@HighEliteMajor i will surprised if we don’t have an avalanche of consequences, from vacated wins, titles, FF, to probation in the future. It might turn out to be the single most idiotic response to an NCAA investigation in the history of the NCAA.
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@KUSTEVE I mentioned the word “foreboding” the other day. It does feel that way. I will be surprised if the penalty is less than 1) Vacate FF and wins that DeSousa participated in, 2) No tourney in 2019-20, and 3) a loss of a scholarship or two.
And I know you were a bit upset with me when I said this a while back, but this path is why I have feared that our coach might leave. I wonder if the NCAA comes after Self, what they may know, and what Self’s reaction might be. Regardless of any of that, a normal person might say he can enjoy life better away from such hassles.
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@HighEliteMajor It makes me wonder if this isn’t Long’s way of pushing him out. Maybe Long has another buddy that coaches basketball.
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@KUSTEVE no way
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@KUSTEVE You truly never know the motives of individuals. The insecurities. Or what is in their head.
This also goes back a bit to one of my thoughts – if the NCAA hits our program hard, we should burn it down. Name names, give info, let everyone know where the bodies are buried. We certainly know what Zion got. I’m sure we know quite a bit. I’m sure we can make everyone very uncomfortable. Maybe we tell the NCAA that if they come at us hard, we’re not going to roll over and take it.
Of course, I really don’t know how this leverage game works internally. KU, NCAA, etc. There may be other things going on that make this implausible.
But I do wonder …
@Crimsonorblue22 He’s spit ballin’ too. Just theorizing. I would seriously doubt it. But you never know. It’s worth considering. What do you think about the fact that Long benefits from NCAA sanctions?
I think that contract provision is just ridiculous. You allow an employee to gain more compensation for a negative result? A result that he has his hands on, management wise?
Again, I trust his integrity I guess. But folks have done far worse for more money.
And I think @kjayhawks is right. Attorneys have their hands all over this.
But are these the same attorneys that let Self go out and give that silly statement after the trial verdict? That was not written by a (competent) lawyer.
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I suggested from the first evidence in 2017 that if the Adidas rep was involved in steering recruits to KU he could possibly be held to be a booster. Maybe that is why I have not been as surprised at what has transpired since. Booster basically means (IIRC) anyone with whom the university has a formal or informal relationship who helps recruit for, raise funds for, or promotes the school with the school’s knowledge. Schools are generally held responsible for supervising the conduct of boosters.
Here, there is in my mind no question based on the evidence from trial that the NCAA has a strong case on which to find the rep was a booster upon whom KU relied extensively for contact and influence in recruiting. I think our only arguable defense is that the booster was engaged in unforeseeable criminal conduct.
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@mayjay With that, how quickly do dots get connected to the top of the food chain? How could Self be ignorant of all of this if that’s really the narrative? I keep thinking of his statement after the verdict.
And I know you’ll remember me mentioning this – I have felt from the start of the prosecution that the real target is the big fish, the pristine leader, Bil Self. Prosecutors love bringing such folks down. The higher the mountain, the harder the fall.
How this would all work between the FBI and NCAA and KU, I don’t know. But the former seem to be working together a bit, and much to our detriment.
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@mayjay what about the way they presented it to us? Kinda underhanded?
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@HighEliteMajor I still don’t think that suspicion is correct, and nothing leads me to suspect Self would be a target of the FBI.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I think our strategy has been designed to allow us to continue asserting innocence without subjecting ourselves to a “lack of cooperation” finding. A tightrope indeed, and one we may find is not well anchored.
Edit: innocence and ignorance both
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@mayjay so what can we do to help Silvio w/ not hurting ku?
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@Crimsonorblue22 I have wondered something that is connected to your question: Can Silvio stay at KU on schollie while being ruled ineligible?
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That said he could, and practice, hopefully travel w/them
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@mayjay Another “target” I had thought of was the NCAA model. A political motivation. I just can’t imagine though that this sort of prosecution is solely designed to prosecute a few underlings in this swamp.
@Crimsonorblue22 This was underhanded I think. I have never seen anything (nor every heard of anything) that requires an admission such as this. To admit that the employee of a third party (a shoe company in this case) was acting as a booster, and not as focusing on his duties as employee of Adidas, is outrageous to me. He was acting for Adidas. He could not care less if it was KU or Cal Poly Tech. Insert the name. It was a college that promoted Adidas best. That is much different than a booster – the guy that donates to the program, etc.
DeSousa remains on scholarship. We can give scholarships to ineligible players. So this talk about this only hurting the player and others skating is baloney. DeSousa can’t play basketball. KU can’t have him play basketball. Both are hurt. But DeSousa still gets the free education if he wants it (at least this season).
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@Crimsonorblue22 Then we should make a big deal about all of our efforts to keep him here long enough to get a degree. Include details of how he worked extra hard to enroll early, what his program is, our work to help this maligned kid in school, his grades, etc.
Basically show that we care more about him as a student athlete than the NCAA does when that is their alleged goal. And dispel any notion in the minds of potential recruits that KU would not stay committed to our own.
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@mayjay I don’t think that would be a problem! KU fans and support staff love those kids. Ever listen to the senior speeches? The number of fans that stay. That’s what KU is all about! I read scot pollards twitter today and he said he came to Kansas because of the tradition, he could have gone where there was
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@HighEliteMajor I was thinking the same thing. Burn that sucker down.
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STEVE and HEM are in agreement.
The end is nigh.
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I’ll give it to you guys. Firing Long is the dumbest idea I’ve heard in 2019. Well done! You set a high bar.
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If I’m Self while I was recruiting this past year I was wearing wire. So if John Doe said Coach K is give me a car and 50k, I want more to go to kansas. I tell the NCAA, I got your poster boy, your move folks. I still said we need to drop Adidas right now and go with NIKE, the NCAA obviously is getting a monster check from Phil Knight at this point.
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@HighEliteMajor I think you are right. I think our FF gets vacated. Scholarship or two…probably. The one I can’t quite decide on is tourney ban. I also agree…burn it down. I don’t like being one of the few programs they make an example of…and others get off scot free.
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They aren’t going to vacate anything. They already over-reached and they know it.
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@DanR I hope you are right. But I think the NCAA wants to pound on their chest and pretend they’re being tough.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I was being facetious. I’m still at a loss how Long thought declaring the representative from Adidas a "booster"was a good idea, or declaring Silvio ineligible was a good idea. It wasn’t like we were playing Silvio. If they take away’s Devonte and company’s FF, I’m gonna be pissed.
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@FarmerJayhawk Hyperbole. Knee jerk reaction. Emotional outburst. Over the top. i grant you most of that. However, the dumbest idea of 2019, imo, was to declare a guy under federal indictment a "booster’, and declaring a player who wasn’t playing “ineligible”, so it would give the NCAA grounds to vacate half our season. When the penalties start flying, I think my point will come into focus a bit more.
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Anyone notice that ESPN announcers basically agreed with the decision? Fran saying that “most coaches agreed” is pure crap, imo. Both Frannie and Dickie V only complained about the length of time to reach a decision, and never actually voiced any dissent about the harshest decision I can ever remember. Sounds like they were given scripts what to say. That’s why I keep saying that ESPN is not our friend.
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Swoosh reasons
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FarmerJayhawk said:
FWIW, Seth Davis thinks Silvio plays Saturday. Would be a terrific development.
I’d say Seth was a tad off…
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Bwag said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
FWIW, Seth Davis thinks Silvio plays Saturday. Would be a terrific development.
I’d say Seth was a tad off…
He was at every step of the way. Not surprising
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kjayhawks said:
@HighEliteMajor The trouble is for me is that several Nike schools were listed reports including Dook. They have tapped conversations of what Zion wanted and his mom is in a huge house all the sudden. But the neither the FBI or NCAA has the balls to take on Coach K or Nike. That much seems blatantly obvious at this point. At this point we need to drop Adidas and go with Nike that way we can get the classes that UK and Dook do every year.
Where is your info on Zion W’s mom’s new, big house coming from?
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KUSTEVE said:
@FarmerJayhawk Hyperbole. Knee jerk reaction. Emotional outburst. Over the top. i grant you most of that. However, the dumbest idea of 2019, imo, was to declare a guy under federal indictment a "booster’, and declaring a player who wasn’t playing “ineligible”, so it would give the NCAA grounds to vacate half our season. When the penalties start flying, I think my point will come into focus a bit more.
Good. Because KU can’t fire Long because of this. It’s literally in his contract. So have fun coming up with the millions he’s owed. The NCAA didn’t need us to admit it to find that on their own. If they determine he meets the definition they can do whatever they want no matter what KU says.
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KUSTEVE said:
Anyone notice that ESPN announcers basically agreed with the decision? Fran saying that “most coaches agreed” is pure crap, imo. Both Frannie and Dickie V only complained about the length of time to reach a decision, and never actually voiced any dissent about the harshest decision I can ever remember. Sounds like they were given scripts what to say. That’s why I keep saying that ESPN is not our friend.
I noticed Bilas and most of the studio guys thought it was insane.
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Fran spins his own narrative all the time. Don’t listen to that old fool.
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@dylans he likes to throw others under the bus
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@FarmerJayhawk so did Chris beard
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I did not hear what Vitale said on air but he tweeted out that it was unfair to Silvio:
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Also CBS’s Matt Norlander didn’t agree with the punishment"
CJ Moore of the Athletic (pay site) also believed it was way too harsh: https://theathletic.com/796969/2019/02/02/moore-ncaa-should-have-shown-compassion-toward-silvio-de-sousa/
In fact, most of what I saw from the media and their reaction was the unfairness and blatant disregard for the student-athlete the NCAA continues to show.
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@FarmerJayhawk Baloney. We’ll agree to disagree. If the NCAA had tried to claim that a felon ( the Adidas rep ) was not actually working on behalf of Adidas but was a “booster” for KU, they would’ve been laughed off the national stage. Furthermore, the NCAA had all the salient facts for almost a year, yet they didn’t decide anything at all until after we had declared Silvio “ineligible”. If they had all this ammo that your ego is telling you they had, why did they wait until after that? The reason is simple…according to the FBI investigation, we were the victims of a fraud…which is why the only way we could be penalized is if we both declared Silvio ineligible, and that the Adidas rep was not actually a rep, but actually a booster. Now, the NCAA could nail us to the wall, which they did. I don’t want to keep going back and forth with you, since you aren’t even considering what I’m saying. Like I said…we’ll agree to disagree.
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@Bwag Just 180 degrees off.
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@KUSTEVE I think it is very conceivable that the NCAA told Long you have to do A, B, C ,and once we did they used A, B, and C to stab the knife in deep. I’d guess that is why he and Bill reacted so strongly. My hope is there is a way to sue the NCAA in some way and form a new precedent. But I fear that will not save Silvio.
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Usually we don’t see CS make a statement that boldly. Especially against any NCAA decision. I don’t believe we’ve heard the worst of this yet. And I stand with others who agree… Burn it all down. Don’t leave 1 piece of evidence that the NCAA ever existed once it’s over.
If we’re really dirty, and everyone else is too. Take them all down. Take it all down
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FWIW another agreement by a sports media person that the punishment does not fit the “crime”
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Anybody who assists in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes is a booster, according to the NCAA definition. Doesn’t matter what their job is, or if their company profits from that decision. Pretty straightforward.
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Fran did not say he approved, only that coaches were not surprised. I think coaches have no illusions about how unfair the NCAA is to athletes.
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@Fightsongwriter That’s exactly what happened. Remember that last year they approved him with the same set of facts. I guess my question is…our AD last year navigated the same slope, and got him approved, and our new NCAA “guru” got the same player suspended for 2 years, and put our results from last year in jeopardy. I understand he brought us Les Miles- no doubt that was a huge get. I just can’t for the life of me understand the lack of common sense when the NCAA asks you to declare the kid ineligible, and asks you to declare a felon incorrectly as a booster, and no alarm bells go off. That would be a guy I want to play poker against. That’s easy money. It’s not like the NCAA could turn around, and declare Silvio ineligible because none of the facts of the case had changed. The only way they could come after him or us is if we had declared him ineligible. And the booster declaration was just absurd. What a steaming pile of stupid that was. No doubt…shame on them for being corrupt liars…but shame on us for being totally ignorant. i have to think that Zenger would’ve smelled that one out from a mile away. Not old Jeff, though.
I like to watch the show " Live PD" because my neighbors to the north ( Pasco County ) are always prominently featured. One of the famous lines you hear again and again is when the cop says " you know, you can really help yourself here by telling me…". Then the suspect always proceeds to bury themselves by rolling over, and telling the cop a whole bunch of incriminating stuff. Jeff reminds me of a Pasco County crack rat after he just incriminated himself.
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KUSTEVE said:
@FarmerJayhawk Baloney. We’ll agree to disagree. If the NCAA had tried to claim that a felon ( the Adidas rep ) was not actually working on behalf of Adidas but was a “booster” for KU, they would’ve been laughed off the national stage. Furthermore, the NCAA had all the salient facts for almost a year, yet they didn’t decide anything at all until after we had declared Silvio “ineligible”. If they had all this ammo that your ego is telling you they had, why did they wait until after that? The reason is simple…according to the FBI investigation, we were the victims of a fraud…which is why the only way we could be penalized is if we both declared Silvio ineligible, and that the Adidas rep was not actually a rep, but actually a booster. Now, the NCAA could nail us to the wall, which they did. I don’t want to keep going back and forth with you, since you aren’t even considering what I’m saying. Like I said…we’ll agree to disagree.
You’re right. I’m not considering it because it’s not accurate. The NCAA has a definition of a booster (https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Booster Guidelines with definitions.pdf if you’re interested) and they could determine with or without KU’s cooperation (see Self’s texts to Gassnola) that Gassnola was a. known to KU and b. influenced and/or facilitated Silvio coming to KU. In which case KU’s cooperation is completely irrelevant. KU had to declare Silvio ineligible in order for him to play this year. Full stop.
An enforcement investigation is a different matter from the NCAA’s point of view than an eligibility investigation. Hence Silvio was free and clear last year, not this year, and KU is probably ok since they explicitly did NOT admit Gassnola was a booster for the purposes of an enforcement matter, just the eligibility review, which are conducted by totally different people. If you’re saying KU should’ve just cut Silvio loose when they found out something could possibly be amiss that’s one thing.
KU also was not aware of the shady stuff with Silvio’s guardian when he was cleared last year. Otherwise the NCAA would’ve never cleared him. I for one want an AD that goes to bat for its student-athletes, especially when the NCAA is obviously so far from reality. If they want to vacate half our last season for playing a player the NCAA and we determined was eligible, fine. They’d better be prepared to vacate half of teams seasons going back to John MF’ing Wooden.
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@FarmerJayhawk Great post. I’m probably barking up the wrong tree then, if the NCAA could’ve done this at any time. I was thinking Long’s actions were the lightening bolt that caused it. I just can’t figure out why the NCAA would ask us to declare Silvio ineligible, and the Adidas bag man a booster in the first place. Isn’t that walking us to the slaughterhouse?
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KUSTEVE said:
@FarmerJayhawk Great post. I’m probably barking up the wrong tree then, if the NCAA could’ve done this at any time. I was thinking Long’s actions were the lightening bolt that caused it. I just can’t figure out why the NCAA would ask us to declare Silvio ineligible, and the Adidas bag man a booster in the first place. Isn’t that walking us to the slaughterhouse?
Never work with the NCAA is the answer.
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The NCAA is traveling a slippery slope at this point with coming down hard on some while ignoring other obvious infractions. Over half of the Billions that they take in each year is made in the NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament. If it turns into a who can rat whom out fest, there won’t many teams able to play in it. A former D1 assistant was on ESPN radio a few years back, guy had worked his way up from small schools and D2 to a Mid major D1 program. He said that if any coach said there was “free” recruit he was flat out a liar.
