Question: What do YOU want KU to do?
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So there are quite a few people on this board that have stated their disappointment in all of this FBI case as it pertains to Coach Self and the program. So my question to you is: What exactly do you Chancellor Girod and AD Jeff Long to do??
Fire Self? Fire Townsend? External Investigation?
This isn’t meant to be rude or anything I am honestly curious as to what people want their school to do?
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I believe they will almost certainly have to do an external investigation if for no other reason than to save face. I still like to believe in the good in ppl. So I kind of hope that happens and it turns up that our guys didn’t do anything wrong. That’s the first best outcome in my opinion as of today. But I admit I hold out little hope for that. It very much does at least appear that we weren’t above board.
Beyond that I think it’s still too early for any of those decisions. I think I’d want to see the investigations findings, and any NCAA rulings on violations/punishments etc. Before saying anyone should be fired and so forth.
Excellent question and topic. It’s definitely food for thought
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Keep fielding a competitive basketball team.
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BOTH WILL STILL BE AT KU
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Idk at this point that anything happens outside of an investigation, alot of it probably depends what else the FBI has on KU because I’m not sure this is enough to do a whole heck of a lot. The current case ruling may play a factor, if found guilty that means the court believes Self and the university is believed to have no knowledge of the payments made from Adidas. If found not guilty it means the court thinks there is enough evidence to believe the staff did know it was happening and the schools weren’t victims of anything.
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At this point there is nothing really that needs to be done other than perhaps an internal investigation to make sure all rules are followed.
At this time there is zero evidence, other than an off-the-cuff statement by an attorney at closing and not under oath that Coach Self might have known about the $2,500 payment to DeSousa. Even the KT phone conversation does not indicate an intent, indication or desire to pay money but only to do what ever possible to get Zion to KU; hopefully without breaking rules and or laws; obviously KU or Adidas did not pay and Zion, who at one time was a KU lean, ended up at Duke. Duke has the serious problem not KU.
All testimony offered under oath by people that had zero incentive to lie, indicated that KU personnel was not aware of any of the financial dealings.
So, unless someone can come up with some solid and verifiable information of corruption the presumption of innocence should still apply.
Keep in mind that I am the one that posted the Casablanca clip and the analogy of recruiting to making law and sausages so it is not like I don’t believe that payments happen all the time, they do. I am just not that naive to think that some elite programs don’t do it, they all do it to one extent or another and seems a little sanctimonious to pile up on Coach Self when he is likely one of the cleaner coaches while Coach K gets a pass because his self-professed innocence…give me an effin’ break, look at his recent recruiting classes and tell me Duke is not paying…the Zion case alone is an indictment of Coach K and Duke…there is just no way that Zion/family that wanted $100K+ suddenly decide to go to Duke because of the education, even when he will not even be there 2 full semesters.
This is not boy scout land, this is the real world and things don’t alwasys work they way we wish they would or should; they work the way they do and it is sink or swim.
Watch the NCAA have a limited, one time amnesty and move on as if nothing happened. Welcome to the real world.
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Sue Preston for his tuition and whatever compensation KU provided.
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@DanR I like that idea! Moms a piece!
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@DanR And the cost of KU’s investigation.
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They say KU’s attorneys have been at the trial.
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Here is what we do…
We will be on the receiving end of every opponents’ jeers… Great!
Can we NOW start (finally) listening to me and bring a chip into every season, every game, every second and start kicking the snit out of every living soul that thinks they want to challenge us to a game designed by our very own Dr. Naismith!
Here is a little clue… it is friggin’ lonely at the top! But guess what… it’s lonely at the bottom, too!
Rock Chalk, Jayhawk!
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I want the truth.
Why? Because I CAN handle the truth.
I want a commitment from KU that we will NOT cheat, that we will NOT be complicit in cheating on our behalf by third parties, and that KU will FIRE cheaters.
I want KU then to privately posture to the NCAA that if any punishment is leveled at KU that KU will expose everything it knows about everyone, and burn the house down.
I want KU to demand an NCAA statement that implicates everyone, or we will expose everything we know about everyone, and burn the house down.
Why? Because KU was the one caught up in a prosecution that could have nailed any larger program. So we aren’t taking one for the team. We will burn it down.
Then I want the NCAA (and schools) to turn the ship around, be hard ass regarding enforcement, and demand compliance. Never pay players. If you don’t like the product and what is offered, don’t play. Be very clear that those that want money need to go somewhere else to earn it. And let the chips fall where they may.
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As far as the program, nothing. Everyone is complicit in the current environment.
But KU should dump Adidas. In the end this is all about money for both sides. There’s a lot of money on the line. I just can’t believe they would stick with them after this. It’s pitiful, PITIFUL Gassnola was allowed to be around the program. The bad apple in the bag and there is a lot of apples out there doing everything he was doing without begging for someone to blow the whistle on him.
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@Woodrow Drop Adidas, and get Nike. Hire Jeff Capel as recruiting coordinator. This will eliminate all FBI investigations, and allow us to be given Top 5 talent every year.
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Here is my guess as to what happens next. The lawyers convene with self and staff to determine if there is any hard evidence out there to prove self knew of payments. I for one can’t believe they would be so stupid as to leave any trail. If lawyers think there is no proof, KU will issue a statement they they take this situation extremely seriously, and we may see self emphatically claim he or his staff had absolutely zero knowledge of adidas paying players to steer them here. Townsend also may have to publicly explain himself and also state that he never meant KU would actually come up with paying Zion. Good luck on that ( good news is that now EVERYONE thinks Nike ponyed up cash for Zion to go to Duke )
I agree on dumping adidas - very hard to see how we can continue this relationship now - Regardless of our past good vibes with adidas, I think both parties should understand this is best to part ways.
The NCAA is obviously going to feel pressured to do something - rather that open Pandora’s box, they may make a token gesture of punishing some of the schools involved. I think some sort of punishment to KU would actually be a good thing in the long run. We need to take it and shut up, and get back to building back up a reputation as a top tier corruption- free beacon of basketball.
If anything I hope that the top one and dones Go to Nike schools at least for a while . F ‘em - Nike can pay them and they can burden some other program. I’ve never felt they are worth the troubke and we can win without them
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If KU dumps ADIDAS now it will look guilt as sin as the recruiting pipeline shuts down. KU would be a low Nike priority, they aren’t courting the Jayhawks and would get sent the recruits left after Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc…if we are to believe all the recruits are bought by the shoecos.
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Why should KU dump Adidas?
First, no other shoeco will pay what Adidas pays.
Second, it would be a de facto admission of guilt.
Third, if KU gets NIke or Under Armour we are just trading one crooked firm for another. Would you rather have World Wide Wes instead of Gassnola? They are all the same except, much like the mafia, Nike pays for protection from prosecution and mostly stays above the fray until an Elliot Ness like prosecutor comes along and takes them down.
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Bosthawk said:
If anything I hope that the top one and dones Go to Nike schools at least for a while . F ‘em - Nike can pay them and they can burden some other program. I’ve never felt they are worth the troubke and we can win without them
Nike is paying guys that are not one and done’s. That’s just an FYI in case you think its only the top tier talent that’s being influenced.
I can share through chat if you would like the specifics of one such case I’m well aware of
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Why should KU dump Adidas?
First, no other shoeco will pay what Adidas pays.
Second, it would be a de facto admission of guilt.
Third, if KU gets NIke or Under Armour we are just trading one crooked firm for another. Would you rather have World Wide Wes instead of Gassnola? They are all the same except, much like the mafia, Nike pays for protection from prosecution and mostly stays above the fray until an Elliot Ness like prosecutor comes along and takes them down.
- Why dump Adidas?
Because its business. This trial is bad business.
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There are always deals to be made. Why does KU need 191 million from a shoe company over 10 years? How did College Sports get so convoluted with shoe company money that it would be a deal “too good to walk away from”. I understand this deal supports ALL KU athletics but Adidas (and some of its employee’s) have created bad business.
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Something we agree on. Maybe the NCAA will remove shoe companies from the equation, or make one single company the provider for all. That’s a pipedream. I’m open to hearing suggestions of what exactly would solve the problem KU is deep in the mud in
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@BeddieKU23 Thanks - yes that I figured as much, and guess that wouldn’t change anything, it’s just all the great players we love were 3 - 4 year guys … I personally don’t really care about any of our one-and-dones. all KU players may have been compensated, but the ones who stick around seem to grow really connected to the school in all the right ways, just like we are.
But yep they most likely were all incentivized in some not-kosher way to come here.
Still not sure how we proceed with adidas though
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@JayHawkFanToo Because it will become stunningly obvious that Nike has bought a federal investigation to eliminate all their competition when absolutely nothing is done about the information that came out about Zion and Dook. To stay with Adidas is to be regularly investigated, castigated, and sullied to the point we won’t be able to recruit anyone.
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Barefoot basketball. It’s the only solution.
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@tis4tim Get sponsored by Dr Scholl’s!
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@BeddieKU23 I think right now, publicly KU is in a no-win situation. Which is why for now I would keep Adidas. No new deal could be leveraged from a position of strength.
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The only shoeco that will pay KU big bucks is Adidas since it is pretty much its flagship program. Nike already has big (football >>>>basketball) programs in the Mid West and KU would be just another of the bunch and would not get nearly as much as it gets from Adidas.
Right now, Nike and Duke are starting to feel the heat and it could get a lot hotter for them. Same with Under Armour, remember it was them or intermediaries that allegedly paid Falmagne $60K.
There are not shoecos that are not up to their necks in the same quick sand and one prosecutor away from being in the same situation as Adidas.
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 I think right now, publicly KU is in a no-win situation. Which is why for now I would keep Adidas. No new deal could be leveraged from a position of strength.
I agree and I assume that’s the position they have taken by not signing.
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Idk. The Nike/Arizona/Ayton thing just kinda went completely away it seems. They played the athlete and the coach sat what? 1 game.
Maybe Nike has more of a stake in all this than anything else. How do we know that Nike isn’t in some negotiation to become the only shoeco and have a monopoly thru the NCAA. The multibillion dollar Giants gets more of the only thing it cares about $$$, and Nike gets all the exposure and sales. Why not? Stick to Adidas and under armour publicly thru the court system with these bs indictments and pave the way for this deal to take place.
I wouldn’t put anything past anyone anymore.
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mayjay said:
@tis4tim Get sponsored by Dr Scholl’s!
Ha! I know that comment was meant to be pithy and humorous, and mine was certainly tongue-in-cheek, but sadly that’s probably what would happen if the NCAA banned shoes. The void would be filled by some entity with deep pockets. Perhaps Sharpie would pay kids to draw a “swoosh” or stripes on their feet in lieu of footwear. Or some tattoo parlor would simply tattoo a pair of Nikes on some player’s feet to gain brand exposure.
By the way, my response is brought to you by Quaker Oats.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Right now, Nike and Duke are starting to feel the heat and it could get a lot hotter for them.
Am I a bad person for thinking that I might be okay with KU forfeiting a few wins or a couple of scholarships as punishment if it ends up taking Duke down?
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KU not getting Zion and not playing Preston when it found out about potential irregularities goes a long ways to show KU’s desire to follow the rules. Even if SDS’s guardian is found to have received $2,500, based on previous cases it is a 2 or 3 game suspension for Silvio at most.
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@cragarhawk I think we should be looking at this from a different perspective. One taught by the President over the past 3 years: there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Maybe we will get more and better recruits from this whole thing. The top ones will convince themselves they will cash in at KU, and they will see the total lack of promises or even mentions of money as the staff just being coy. So, they fool themselves (and they could never admit that) and we stay clean while getting top players.
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You nothing until all the trials are over and you take stock of everything. You definitely can’t drop Adidas when Nike is much worse, and you’d be leaving millions on the table as the AD. The key is to play the long game with the NCAA. Dare them to look at everyone and not just a bad actor here or there. Get them to admit it’s a systemic problem and treat it like baseball’s steroid era. Everyone was doing it so it’s either accept that and move on or pretend like the last 6 decades of college sports just didn’t happen.
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That’s one of my biggest questions at this point, Do they have Miller talking about paying Ayton the 100k or not?
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You know whether in the end if we are penalized for anything or not - - this type of thing is still frustrating.
what the hell has happened to the game? - -over the last few seasons - -seems like always something. - We have had Alexander - - - - We have had Problems with Diallo - - Then Preston - - then we have Desousa - -missing one - who was it the one that transferred to Arizona State and left there. - just seems like EVERY DAM year anymore always something. Whatever happened to just looking forward to KU kickin ass and taking names on the floor – miss those days - just frustrating. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Woodrow I want the AD to fire the football coach.
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@mayjay without picking a side cause I
- Don’t really belong to one, and
- Don’t really believe there should be sides to begin with.
I’ll reply this…
I dare say the current president was definitely not the one or at least not the first to teach that “lesson”. Which is more of an actual shift in culture than I’d say a lesson so to speak.
That’s been going on for for decades as well. Andy Kauffman was really good at it. I’m sure there were others before him.
Rap music in the early ninety’s and so on and so forth down the rabbit hole. Until now. If you watch closely, which incidentally I don’t anymore because it is this way…
It’s gone past the point of any publicity being good publicity straight to only bad publicity is good publicity. Every media outlet in the world has caught onto that. Sin sells if you will…
If you look at how UK took off recruiting wise after their newly hired coach, who had just left a program under a shadow of vacated wins and such. I’d say you’re probably spot on. Now we should technically start getting 4 of the top 5 guys year in and year out after this. Sadly, that adds up.
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@wissox literally laughed outloud.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Why should KU dump Adidas?
First, no other shoeco will pay what Adidas pays.
Second, it would be a de facto admission of guilt.
Third, if KU gets NIke or Under Armour we are just trading one crooked firm for another. Would you rather have World Wide Wes instead of Gassnola? They are all the same except, much like the mafia, Nike pays for protection from prosecution and mostly stays above the fray until an Elliot Ness like prosecutor comes along and takes them down.
I don’t necessarily mind your 2nd and 3rds. But the first kind of rubs me wrong. This whole mess is about money. “For the love of money is the root of all evil” is what the good book says. Should we care if Adidas pays more? Can we compete without a shoe contract? Does the NCAA need to regulate this more to put an end to this sham of a business arrangement that puts every major college team in the crosshairs?
Someone said would they be willing to see us get a wrist slap if it meant Duke gets some punishment? I don’t. Why really would we want to see Duke go down? They’re one of our rivals. We’ve actually had the upper hand in that rivalry for the best part of a decade now. I dislike them as much as the next KU fan, but not sure seeing all of our blue blood rivals get nailed is good for us or for the game.
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Give them a lifetime contract and a raise.
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Oh and get out of the Big 12. Texas and Kstate suck
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So if Bill Self played it straight, played by the rules. Then lost a lot more games and disappointed even more in the tournament. None of you of would be like yea but HCBS plays by the rules. No everybody would be screaming it’s time to go. What do you expect? What are you expectations?
Hey HCBS you need to get five kids from the wheat fields of Kansas and go win a NC. Crazy?
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DoubleDD said:
So if Bill Self played it straight, played by the rules. Then lost a lot more games and disappointed even more in the tournament. None of you of would be like yea but HCBS plays by the rules. No everybody would be screaming it’s time to go. What do you expect? What are you expectations?
Hey HCBS you need to get five kids from the wheat fields of Kansas and go win a NC. Crazy?
Probably would have missed the tournament by now. Don’t worry I’ve been beating this drum lol.
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Ya one of the problems I have with that is this…
Nobody was saying that before all this. If someone said we were cheating on any board you read in the country I’m sure the answer was more like. We’re KU, the most tradition rich program in history and always will be. We don’t have to pay players to come here. Bill Self is clean, he sits players whenever there’s any doubt. You should look at you’re own dirty guy… Coach ratface or Calimari…
I have zero doubt that or something similar has been the defense to such claims.
Suddenly now the narrative has changed to this current stance of “everyone else is doing it”, “we have to do it too in order to be competitive”, “what do you expect us to do” “this has been going on everywhere for decades” and so on…
If it’s really okay with you and you really believe it’s that way everywhere that’s fine. But where was that narrative prior?
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@cragarhawk I was saying this before, particularly to jaybate when he insinuated that things were stacked against KU.
I was one of the few though, and one time when I brought the subject up on the phog (quite awhile ago, under a different name) I got a beatdown which looks hilarious in retrospect.
And of course obviously it would have been reaaaaaally awesome if KU had been doing it w/o cheating but there has always been too much smoke, imo.
Wright, Rush, Arthur, Collins, Selby etc…
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@BShark okay. So I probably generalized there. If you were or if anyone okay… Was saying that same thing prior. Then I say kudos to ya. And even, hey, well done for being ahead of it when clearly i myself wasn’t.
But you do see the point then? By in large that has not been the consensus narrative prior to this all coming out. Correct?
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@cragarhawk Agree. Many appear to be blindsided by it.
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@BShark I definitely would and have been one of those that would have defended the program for clean. And I think most would have. I saw as you said very few before hand that believed or at least admitted maybe… to this what I call new narrative
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I still think HCBS is Clean? Why not? If it’s what it takes to be the best? If there was indeed wrong doing on his part. The narrative hasn’t really changed.
The only thing that has changed is the KU fan base mindset. So many are starting to see what it takes to stay at the top.
Not one KU fan would defend HCBS if he couldn’t win the Big 12 Conference more than once in a three year period. Or even worse didn’t even make the tournament.
No one KU fan would be like yea but he runs a clean program. Not one.
The evidence that is being put out isn’t a KU thing. It’s a College Basketball thing. So why bash a great Coach for doing what all us KU fans want. A winner.
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It’s because you don’t go around and say, “yeah we’re totally cheating lol” on a public forum when there’s no concrete information otherwise.
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@DoubleDD ya that’s completely not the point. I didn’t see you nor anyone else saying that type of thing before. Even though I admit there were probably a few that were saying the same then as now. Largely… Meaning for most fans. The narrative has suddenly changed. Plain and simple.
And you cant count me as 1 fan who will still be in support if we lose and are
above board while most others aren’t. There may not be alot. But there’s for damn sure 1.
