New 2019 Recruiting
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@Crimsonorblue22 It doesn’t matter what Grimes would have done with the other two. It only matters what he has done under Self and the stigma that comes with it. Along with Cliff, Diallo, Selby, Henry and really just most of the OADs we’ve had. It is just the current perception, and it’s hard to argue with.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@Crimsonorblue22 It doesn’t matter what Grimes would have done with the other two. It only matters what he has done under Self and the stigma that comes with it. Along with Cliff, Diallo, Selby, Henry and really just most of the OADs we’ve had. It is just the current perception, and it’s hard to argue with.
Yeah, fair or not this is what the view is.
And there was an article today on the Athletic slobbering all over Calipari and how players improve massively under him.
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BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
Wish I could say I’m shocked by this. But I just think you look at what Self has done with potential OADs compared to K and Cal and he’s clearly in 3rd place. That makes the decision much easier.
I won’t be even a little bit surprised if Hurt ends up going elsewhere. The threat of a probation probably isn’t helping recruiting at all…
If I were a recruit I’d be worried about a post-season ban as well. Especially as a OAD where this may be your only chance at one.
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Kcmatt7 said:
BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
Wish I could say I’m shocked by this. But I just think you look at what Self has done with potential OADs compared to K and Cal and he’s clearly in 3rd place. That makes the decision much easier.
I won’t be even a little bit surprised if Hurt ends up going elsewhere. The threat of a probation probably isn’t helping recruiting at all…
If I were a recruit I’d be worried about a post-season ban as well. Especially as a OAD where this may be your only chance at one.
No doubt kids are worried about it. It’s the uncertainty that is a killer. Once all the dust actually settles I trust KU will get it rolling again.
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BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@Crimsonorblue22 It doesn’t matter what Grimes would have done with the other two. It only matters what he has done under Self and the stigma that comes with it. Along with Cliff, Diallo, Selby, Henry and really just most of the OADs we’ve had. It is just the current perception, and it’s hard to argue with.
Yeah, fair or not this is what the view is.
And there was an article today on the Athletic slobbering all over Calipari and how players improve massively under him.
I have not read the article, but I find that amusing. PJ Washington has been incredible this year and I would assume that is mainly what the article is about, but besides the Wall, AD, Cousins type players who has gone to UK and blown up and gotten so much better. I am sure there are a few, but what about the Harrison Twins, Dakari Johnson, Marcus Lee, Trey Lyles, Weynen Gabriel, Sasha Jones, etc…
I feel like Cal gets a pass because of all of the top end talent he gets that are going to be great no matter where they go.
Maybe that is just my perception. He has had a lot more bust then people realize I guess is my point.
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BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
Wish I could say I’m shocked by this. But I just think you look at what Self has done with potential OADs compared to K and Cal and he’s clearly in 3rd place. That makes the decision much easier.
I won’t be even a little bit surprised if Hurt ends up going elsewhere. The threat of a probation probably isn’t helping recruiting at all…
that’s EXACTLY what it is - -this FBI crap has kicked us right square in the nads - - - HARD
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Woodrow said:
BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@Crimsonorblue22 It doesn’t matter what Grimes would have done with the other two. It only matters what he has done under Self and the stigma that comes with it. Along with Cliff, Diallo, Selby, Henry and really just most of the OADs we’ve had. It is just the current perception, and it’s hard to argue with.
Yeah, fair or not this is what the view is.
And there was an article today on the Athletic slobbering all over Calipari and how players improve massively under him.
I have not read the article, but I find that amusing. PJ Washington has been incredible this year and I would assume that is mainly what the article is about, but besides the Wall, AD, Cousins type players who has gone to UK and blown up and gotten so much better. I am sure there are a few, but what about the Harrison Twins, Dakari Johnson, Marcus Lee, Trey Lyles, Weynen Gabriel, Sasha Jones, etc…
I feel like Cal gets a pass because of all of the top end talent he gets that are going to be great no matter where they go.
Maybe that is just my perception. He has had a lot more bust then people realize I guess is my point.
What is the success rate compared to Self though. Of course they both have had their busts. But Self OADs do not seem to have much staying power in the League. And had Self landed some of the guys Cal got, of course it probably changes perception. But these are the results:
- Josh Jackson - Bust - Soon to be wash out
- Selby - Bust - Washed out
- Diallo - Bust - I find it hard to believe he ever makes it
- Alexander - Bust - Washed out
- Preston - Bust (Whether fair or not) - Washed out
- Henry - Bust - Washed out
- Wiggins - Underacheiving
- Embiid - Stud
- Selden - Bust - Will wash out
- Bragg - Bust
- Grimes - Bust
- B-Mac - Bust - About to wash out
- Oubre - Not a bust but not a hit
Cal
- Kat - Hit
- Cousins - Hit
- Monk - Hit
- Booker - Hit
- Wall - Hit
- Bledsoe - Hit
- Rose - Hit (Still falls under Cal)
- Fox - Hit
- SGA - Hit
- MKG - Hit
- AD - Hit
- Knight - Hit
- Knox - Seems like a hit
- Kanter - Hit
- Murray - Hit
- Randle - Hit
- Diallo - Hit
- Noel - Underachieved - Still in the league though
- Skal - Underachieved - Still in the league though
- Bam - Seems like he’ll stick
Add in all the misses from transfers and what not, but that is still one hell of a track record.
K
- Ingram - Hit
- Giles - Meh. Underacheive but still in the league
- Kyrie - Hit
- Bagley - Hit
- Tyus - Hit
- Parker - Hit (Knee injury derailed)
- Jahlil - Underachieve
- Rivers - Hit
- Winslow - Hit
- Trent - Miss - Will wash out
- Duval - Miss - Will wash out
- Carter JR - Hit
- Jackson - Miss - Will wash out
Still, a better track record than Self. Not near as good as Cal, but still better.
Just how I see it at least.
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I think it’s safe to say Giles was derailed by injuries too.
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I’d even say Oubre was a hit, but I don’t believe Self had anything to do with it. Seemed more like he botched that situation than is the reason Oubre has had a decent career.
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@Kcmatt7 Why is Josh a bust and MKG a "hit. Go look at their stats. Then Oubre being a hit has nothing to do with Self? You are trying WAY too hard to make your point.
Also, I am not arguing that Self is on par with K and Cal just that Cal’s record is overstated because he landed can’t miss guys.
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@Woodrow Josh is a bust because he’s definitely not getting a 2nd contract. Kidd Gilchrist will have made $60M in 7 seasons by the time he washes out. IF he washes out. MKG is better from advanced stats metrics as well. Josh will be lucky to ever have a PER as good as MKG’s worst.
Sure, Oubre was successful because of Self. I can concede that point and still think my point is correct. The reason I don’t attribute it to Self is because Self barely played him to start the season and he struggled mightily his first two years in the league.
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LOL @ Josh not getting a second contract. Come on.
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Sure was fun beating duke last year! Great coaching job!
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@Woodrow The Suns will not be giving JJ a 2nd contract. It’s almost guaranteed at this point.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@Woodrow The Suns will not be giving JJ a 2nd contract. It’s almost guaranteed at this point.
You said he would not be getting a second contract. Insinuating he will be out of the league when his first one runs out. The Suns might not sign him and if he was smart he wouldn’t resign with that dumpster fire, but he will sign a second contract with a team.
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@Woodrow Ok, we’ll see. He is not that far from washing out. His PER is ranked 300th out of 388 players who have played in 20 or more games so far this season. He is 226th out of 266 players who have played 750 or more minutes this season. He is 250th out of those same 266 players in True Shooting Percentage. He is a 3 and D wing with no 3. I very much see him ending up overseas without improvement.
But whatever, it doesn’t matter. He was the 4th pick in the draft and he is unlikely to get meaningful minutes anywhere after his stint with the Suns. And even if I count him as a “hit,” it’s semantics at this point. It barely changes the list. All I was trying to do was put this out there visually. We can nitpick my list all we want, but Bill has not had the success that the other two have had with guys who had OAD potential coming into college. It is the perception, even if the recruits we have landed aren’t the same caliber as some of these others for Duke or UK.
All I’m trying to say, I can see why a recruit and their family would pick UK or Duke over KU if their child has a shot at being a OAD player.
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The biggest stat not listed is that Dook and Uks classes are better than KUs almost every single year.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@Woodrow Ok, we’ll see. He is not that far from washing out. His PER is ranked 300th out of 388 players who have played in 20 or more games so far this season. He is 226th out of 266 players who have played 750 or more minutes this season. He is 250th out of those same 266 players in True Shooting Percentage. He is a 3 and D wing with no 3. I very much see him ending up overseas without improvement.
But whatever, it doesn’t matter. He was the 4th pick in the draft and he is unlikely to get meaningful minutes anywhere after his stint with the Suns. And even if I count him as a “hit,” it’s semantics at this point. It barely changes the list. All I was trying to do was put this out there visually. We can nitpick my list all we want, but Bill has not had the success that the other two have had with guys who had OAD potential coming into college. It is the perception, even if the recruits we have landed aren’t the same caliber as some of these others for Duke or UK.
All I’m trying to say, I can see why a recruit and their family would pick UK or Duke over KU if their child has a shot at being a OAD player.
I agree with that! I was never arguing that Self is even close when it comes to those other two programs when it comes to OAD.
I was simply saying that Cal gets the benefit of the doubt most of the time because of the Wall, Cousins, AD, of the world. He doesn’t have very many TRob, Withey, Tyshawn, Frank, Graham players.
He isn’t some world beater when it comes to developing players.
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Anyways, sorry to derail the thread.
Precious is in town so let’s hope we get a W tonight and Self knocks it out of the park with him.
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@Woodrow I wholeheartedly agree. Self, to me, is the far superior player developer if given multiple seasons. Which is why it has always been funny to me that he’d even go after the players he goes after.
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Woodrow said:
Anyways, sorry to derail the thread.
Precious is in town so let’s hope we get a W tonight and Self knocks it out of the park with him.
WE ARE GONING TOWIN
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Woodrow said:
LOL @ Josh not getting a second contract. Come on.
Agree for sure Woodrow - - - Josh will for sure be getting a 2nd contract - -plain and simple
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Woodrow said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@Woodrow The Suns will not be giving JJ a 2nd contract. It’s almost guaranteed at this point.
You said he would not be getting a second contract. Insinuating he will be out of the league when his first one runs out. The Suns might not sign him and if he was smart he wouldn’t resign with that dumpster fire, but he will sign a second contract with a team.
it may not be with that pit hole but ya Josh will get a 2nd contract. - - Phoenix has a lot of more problems then Josh - place is a dam dumpster fire - Josh would do really well to get the hell out of there. - -He is NOT their main reason for their situation
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Well something must of leaked - - got out or something. – - -6 picks on Matthew Hurt today - -and it looks like Duke is yet going to get Hurt - - SOB - this FBI thing is just killing us - - We are now a 59% - -and Duke is at 29 % – Man we are in a world of hurt. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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More follow the leader than anything. Literally 3 days ago Evan said he didn’t know jack. Bossi over at Rivals still likes KU.
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If I’m Precious right now AFH looks mighty fine
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FarmerJayhawk said:
If I’m Precious right now AFH looks mighty fine
you would think - -the phog was insane tonight - - solid - - solid showing for the guys tonight. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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we played very well, and got a much needed win. now, let’s finish strong!
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@FarmerJayhawk saw him sitting by Wayne, 100 miles away
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How were announcers? Saw marlins man in ku hat
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@FarmerJayhawk he’s much taller than wayne
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@BShark @Crimsonandblue12 Precious is enormous. Wayne is probably 6’7 or so and Precious makes him look small. Honestly he’s big enough to play some 5.
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@FarmerJayhawk Would be a dream to land him. Wouldn’t even care if Hurt went to Duke. Though right now Hurt is the better offensive player.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
How were announcers? Saw marlins man in ku hat
pretty decent – Jay Bilas was one of them
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BShark said:
@FarmerJayhawk Would be a dream to land him. Wouldn’t even care if Hurt went to Duke. Though right now Hurt is the better offensive player.
Either one. The perimeter is going to be salty.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
BShark said:
@FarmerJayhawk Would be a dream to land him. Wouldn’t even care if Hurt went to Duke. Though right now Hurt is the better offensive player.
Either one. The perimeter is going to be salty.
Agree. With or without Grimes. I hope it’s with though.
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BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
BShark said:
@FarmerJayhawk Would be a dream to land him. Wouldn’t even care if Hurt went to Duke. Though right now Hurt is the better offensive player.
Either one. The perimeter is going to be salty.
Agree. With or without Grimes. I hope it’s with though.
Should be. At this point the staff isn’t recruiting any guards other than Stanley. Who honestly would be a nice bench piece.
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Simien? Precious makes Simien look small? That’s a big high schooler!
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FarmerJayhawk said:
BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
BShark said:
@FarmerJayhawk Would be a dream to land him. Wouldn’t even care if Hurt went to Duke. Though right now Hurt is the better offensive player.
Either one. The perimeter is going to be salty.
Agree. With or without Grimes. I hope it’s with though.
Should be. At this point the staff isn’t recruiting any guards other than Stanley. Who honestly would be a nice bench piece.
I THINK GRIMES IS NOT GONING ANYWERE
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@JAYHAWKFAN214 he looked good and looked like he was having fun.
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His shot didn’t look so rushed yesterday. He made better passes (and got lucky a few found friendly hands). He had a couple of nice hustle plays. And he played 36 minutes in an ass whooping. He was a good player yesterday.
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Best defense I saw out of him all year. The effort was there and it wasn’t inconsistent. He saw a few shots go in which probably helped him out big time.
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@BeddieKU23 Just everything about him yesterday was more aggressive. He seemed to use his 6’5 200lb frame a little bit yesterday too, which was nice to see.
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Definitely. Making shots just seemed to make a difference for him last night. Loved his effort overall and I wish we could bottle it up.
He still has a long ways to go to showing that consistently but we got a glimpse last night of the player we expected out of HS
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Bossi says Hurt could announce on his birthday April 20th. This from his dad. If this was already reported my apologies
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Was just reading a post of another site about Precious from another person on the phog. - he stated that Precious has a Mentor , name of OZ Cross. - that OZ Cross worked under Coach Roberts when he was at St Johns - - - said that KU kept in contact with I guess precious for a long time - - - and saying with this Cross working under Roberts while at St Johns that thinks it could help us now.
So my question is - - does this send up a red flag? – dealing with another Mentor or what the hell ever you wanna call these guys.? - -It just seems I’m starting to think- -anytime there is a mentor or whatever - there come baggage - -issues - -problems if that’s the case - -w sure the hell DONT NEED anymore. - I dunno IF this is the case I myself would be really leary after all the junk that has been coming on.
So I have another question. So basically we are now down for any hope for any recruit for 2019 - -we either have Hurt - - -Precious - - OR Stanley right? - -That’s it?
Seems like we are losing Hurt to Duke more likely then not now Precious? – just don’t know - -think our chances are pretty slim with him anyways - -Stanley who knows? - haven’t heard ANYTHING with him for some time. - - Last I knew thought had heard we were sitting in a fairly good spot with him - -just so quiet- anyone heard anything more - seems like this year is COMPLETE BUST. - Anybody got any other fairly remote chance of us landing? - -GOD I hope so. - -ROCK CHALKALL DAY LONG BABY
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Absolutely a concern. I’ll just leave it at that
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KU is said to be recruiting Harlond Beverly and Tristan Enaruna as well.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2019/harlond-beverly-199133
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2019/tristan-enaruna-233305
If and when Miller gets fired at Zona there will be a free for all on their #1 ranked recruiting class as well.
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Woodrow said:
KU is said to be recruiting Harlond Beverly and Tristan Enaruna as well.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2019/harlond-beverly-199133
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2019/tristan-enaruna-233305
If and when Miller gets fired at Zona there will be a free for all on their #1 ranked recruiting class as well.
Not sure how hard KU is going after Beverly (and I don’t think he would move the needle on next year’s squad) but Enaruna is really good. He’d be a really nice get if Hurt ends up at Duke.
Agree on Arizona and I think Nnaji could end up at KU.
RE Precious: pretty sure it’s basically known info that he is going to the highest bidder.
