Best Passer... EVER



  • Wow…high praise for Dedric from Coach Self. This is going to be a GREAT year:

    http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/oct/05/self-ku-forward-dedric-lawson-hes-best-passer-weve/



  • I’ve been beating this drum. He’s an all around special player. Haven’t had a forward as good as him in a hot minute. He is Simien/Marcus good.



  • @BShark haha, we haven’t even had a power forward the last two years!



  • @BShark Put him in the lineup with Grimes, Dotson, KJ, or Vick, and we’ll see some of the best passing we’ve seen since Roy was coach. My favorite element of Roy’s run and gun was the way they passed the ball. When Dedric goes out to the 3 point line, teams are not going to be able to defend us.



  • BShark said:

    I’ve been beating this drum. He’s an all around special player. Haven’t had a forward as good as him in a hot minute. He is Simien/Marcus good.

    just don’t beat it to hard , we need the drum to last for the entire year lol - – it’s like only 18 days till the start – we begin on the 25th of October right? - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @jayballer73 Exhibition game is then. Doesn’t count though of course. Open with Michigan State Nov 6th. You best believe I am watching every second of the exhibition games though. :D



  • BShark said:

    @jayballer73 Exhibition game is then. Doesn’t count though of course. Open with Michigan State Nov 6th. You best believe I am watching every second of the exhibition games though. :D

    you and me both buddy – -you and me both - -can’t wait. - - so ready - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY





  • @KUSTEVE Imagine being so wrong about the starting PG.



  • @KUSTEVE - – loaded - — -LOADED - - - - L o A d- E- d- - - LOAded - - - -loaded - – LOADED ! ! ! ! - there I think I’ve expressed how I feel and oh ya of course - - – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • BShark said:

    @KUSTEVE Imagine being so wrong about the starting PG. Hey everyone is entitled to ONE mistake - - -happened to me once – -when I thought I was wrong lol. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @BShark Dotson is definitely being sleighted by a whole bunch of folks in the media. 30 days from now, that won’t be the case. I don’t think they realize he is a 5 star recruit, and is a Frank clone. They seem to talk about everybody except him.



  • @KUSTEVE wondering when that video was cut, at end mentioned Cunliffe still there



  • @KUSTEVE

    I think Dotson is being “slighted” because a lot of people know that Self likely starts Moore at the beginning of the season. I tend to agree with that.

    However, I think Dotson takes over as the starting PG sometime in December and the team takes off from there. Dotson is just so good, and I think the has a chance to take the team to a different level on both ends, particularly defensively with his size and ability to switch on the perimeter to guard bigger guys.

    Once that happens, Self unleashes this team and they leave a path of destruction through the Big 12 a mile wide.



  • I believe Dotson should and will start. Team ceiling is higher with Dotson than with Moore. Need to go through the growing pains as early as possible. Waiting to start Dotson could be the difference between a sweet sixteen and a final four.



  • KirkIsMyHinrich said:

    I believe Dotson should and will start. Team ceiling is higher with Dotson than with Moore. Need to go through the growing pains as early as possible. Waiting to start Dotson could be the difference between a sweet sixteen and a final four.

    YES.

    Hopefully Bill has learned. :fingers_crossed:



  • @BShark Bill is saying they’re going to play Charlie and Dotson at the same time.

    http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/oct/08/dude-can-score-kus-charlie-moore-more-just-point-g/



  • @KUSTEVE I still think Charlie is going to give Bill palpitations and he will revert to old habits.



  • I can almost guarantee you will see them play together against Zones and probably both WVU games. But I wouldn’t expect to see it every game.



  • Kcmatt7 said:

    I can almost guarantee you will see them play together against Zones and probably both WVU games. But I wouldn’t expect to see it every game.

    Interesting topic.

    I’m not saying to sit Dotson against Baylor but his shot does need to improve. I think the go to line-up for zone busting would be…

    Moore

    Grimes

    Vick

    KJ

    Dedric



  • Against Michigan St I expect Self will start his freshman. It’s on National TV, its a recruiting thing. Everyone is watching.

    Unlike past years we don’t have a warm-up game before Sparty. Winston is a tough,tough matchup for a freshman off the bat but its exactly the situation you want to see how Devon responds.

    If Moore is in the game it sounds like another ball handler will be in as well. Expect either Devon or Q to be playing primarily with Charlie at all times



  • I think Dotson needs to play zone because he will attack the middle of it instead of trying to shoot over it. Someone in your zone busting lineup has to get the defense collapsing.



  • I keep seeing the header and thinking it’s an overreaction to Mahomes. Then I realize @KUSteve posted it and is a Texans fan…and it’s about KU basketball.



  • @BShark If Silvio isn’t able to play, it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Lawsons playing the front line almost every game for portions of the game… I thot it was telling they used KJ as a big in late night, and he played exceptionally well. He has really bulked up, and looks almost as big as MM.



  • The Lawson bros definitely have that Morrii synergy thing going on. Any line-up with them as the two post players is a hell of a “small” line-up w/ a lot of length and rebounding.



  • BShark said:

    The Lawson bros definitely have that Morrii synergy thing going on. Any line-up with them as the two post players is a hell of a “small” line-up w/ a lot of length and rebounding.

    Also, tons of athleticism with that as a small lineup. Potentially unguardable.



  • At this point, Bill could put all 12 scholarship players names in a hat, draw out 5 names, and it would be a capable lineup lol.



  • @justanotherfan Agree. I hope we see it a fair bit.

    @Kcmatt7 REAL TALK: would bill win the B12 with Moore, Garrett, Agbaji, Mitch, Dave? And some kind of bench presumably.



  • @BShark haha I wouldn’t bet against it happening, that’s for sure. Ridiculously loaded right now.



  • BShark said:

    @justanotherfan Agree. I hope we see it a fair bit.

    @Kcmatt7 REAL TALK: would bill win the B12 with Moore, Garrett, Agbaji, Mitch, Dave? And some kind of bench presumably.

    I don’t know that he could win it with that group, but I bet he could finish top 3. You would have to hope Big Dave could average 12 and 8 because I don’t know where the scoring would come from on that team. Moore would be in double figures, but efficiency would probably suffer. Garrett would have to score more. I guess Agbaji could be a scorer, but that seems a year too soon.

    They would have to be tough defensively because they would struggle on the offensive end.

    But I still think they would finish third in the League because Self would figure it out.



  • The only thing that sucks is I know Bill will never have someone besides Dotson or Moore at PG. Which really ruins several of my fantasy lineups where we don’t have a player on the floor under 6’4 lol



  • @Kcmatt7 grimes played pt a lot for him



  • I once saw Danny M throw a full length bounce pass that basically was thrown diagonally from the right side of the lane, where I was sitting, to a fast breaker who caught the ball on the left side of the opposite lane. From my unique vantage point I could see the precision needed for such a pass to work as it split two defenders. Glad my brain has hung onto the video of that play. If Mr. Lawson can throw passes like that I’ll call him the best passer ever too!



  • Funny to me to hear people here, (not on this discussion today) but in general to be not very high on Charlie Moore. This kid is really very good and I think will be a key performer, probably off the bench.



  • KUSTEVE said:

    @BShark If Silvio isn’t able to play, it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Lawsons playing the front line almost every game for portions of the game… I thot it was telling they used KJ as a big in late night, and he played exceptionally well. He has really bulked up, and looks almost as big as MM.

    MM as in Mark Mangino? Boy, that is really BIG!!! :smiley:



  • Kcmatt7 said:

    The only thing that sucks is I know Bill will never have someone besides Dotson or Moore at PG. Which really ruins several of my fantasy lineups where we don’t have a player on the floor under 6’4 lol

    Grimes played PG for the USA team coached by Bil Self at the Under 18 Tournament and he did great, MVP of the Tournament.



  • wissox said:

    Funny to me to hear people here, (not on this discussion today) but in general to be not very high on Charlie Moore. This kid is really very good and I think will be a key performer, probably off the bench.

    Did you see him play at Cal at all?



  • @wissox

    In General, I’ve seen the KU fanbase on both ends of the spectrum regarding Charlie.

    You have those that think he’ll start the season because of his experience both at Cal and his 1 year with the KU program. He has seniority over Devon, something that we’ve seen play out in his favor in the past.

    I’ve seen those who think he won’t amount to much here based on anything from his size, his HS ranking, his shooting metrics at Cal etc.

    In his favor at the minimum, Self took him into the program without hesitation. Everything we’ve heard about his character and work ethic has been A++. The Lawson’s might be here only a year but Charlie most likely ends his career a Hawk 3 years from now. Will be exciting to watch his development here



  • BeddieKU23 said:

    Did you see him play at Cal at all?

    I think I watched a little once. However, I did see him in person once as well. It was at a holiday tournament in Chicago and while I had no knowledge of anyone on the floor at the time, immediately as the game began his skill became very clear. He stood out and was playing in a game on a team that would win state in Illinois that year.



  • @BeddieKU23

    I am pretty high on Moore. He will be the starting PG but Dotson will likely take over somewhere in the season but no doubt Moore will see substantial playing time. Nice to have a PG that can step in at any time with little or no drop in team performance.



  • @BShark We said the same thing about Frank after his freshman year. If Charlie starts to play ME-BALL, he’ll get pulled real quick.



  • wissox said:

    BeddieKU23 said:

    Did you see him play at Cal at all?

    I think I watched a little once. However, I did see him in person once as well. It was at a holiday tournament in Chicago and while I had no knowledge of anyone on the floor at the time, immediately as the game began his skill became very clear. He stood out and was playing in a game on a team that would win state in Illinois that year.

    Must have been cool to reflect now on him now that he’s a Hawk.

    I watched a handful of Cal games his freshman year. A few of them Charlie was very good, on a bad team. His role at KU will be completely different then what he had at Cal so it will be interesting to see how he’s adjusted to life under Bill Self. I expect we’ll see some good flashes from him.



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    Did you see Self’s comments yesterday about Charlie?

    “The thing about Charlie that people might not understand is people equate him to being a point guard just because he’s not very tall,” KU coach Bill Self recently told the Journal-World. “But the bottom line is this dude can score. He’ll play some point for us, but he’ll probably play every bit as much off the ball. He can play point guard, but I still think he’d be better if he had a point guard in the game with him.”



  • @BeddieKU23

    Frank Mason was a SG in HS and a volume scorer but his role changed at KU and worked out great for him.



  • BeddieKU23 said:

    He can play point guard, but I still think he’d be better if he had a point guard in the game with him.”

    That is why I don’t think he will get much time. Are we better with Charlie on the court wtih Dotson. Or Dotson with Garrett/Vick/KJ/Grimes combo? That group is just so long and talented that I can’t see Moore playing much.



  • BeddieKU23 said:

    @wissox

    In General, I’ve seen the KU fanbase on both ends of the spectrum regarding Charlie.

    You have those that think he’ll start the season because of his experience both at Cal and his 1 year with the KU program. He has seniority over Devon, something that we’ve seen play out in his favor in the past.

    I’ve seen those who think he won’t amount to much here based on anything from his size, his HS ranking, his shooting metrics at Cal etc.

    In his favor at the minimum, Self took him into the program without hesitation. Everything we’ve heard about his character and work ethic has been A++. The Lawson’s might be here only a year but Charlie most likely ends his career a Hawk 3 years from now. Will be exciting to watch his development here

    I’m actually worried Moore ends up transferring again. Might be completely unfounded though. Can’t wait for the season to get here and see how Self goes with minutes.



  • @BeddieKU23 That same tournament is when I saw future and now former Hawk Markese Jacobs play and met Jerrance Howard. It’s a great tournament which has so many future college and pro stars play.



  • JayHawkFanToo said:

    @BeddieKU23

    Frank Mason was a SG in HS and a volume scorer but his role changed at KU and worked out great for him.

    If Charlie is on a similar career arc to Mason then I find it unlikely that he’s KU’s starting PG this year. Self’s comments all but said he’s not focused on him as the primary PG on this team.

    Let’s not forget Frank took years to transition his role into the scoring/facilitating machine he was as a Sr.

    Whoever wins the gig is a win/win for KU and its fans. We have depth at the position and the competition for the spot should benefit everyone



  • Kcmatt7 said:

    BeddieKU23 said:

    He can play point guard, but I still think he’d be better if he had a point guard in the game with him.”

    That is why I don’t think he will get much time. Are we better with Charlie on the court wtih Dotson. Or Dotson with Garrett/Vick/KJ/Grimes combo? That group is just so long and talented that I can’t see Moore playing much.

    I agree although I do think Charlie plays somewhere in the 12-18 minute range. His scoring ability should get him on the court, I view his role similar to Vick’s two seasons ago when Self used him off the bench.



  • I don’t see any Frank in Moore. Frank was a lot more athletic.


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