FBI...here we go
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mayjay said:
@BShark Is there a trickle down to the rest of the team? I can’t believe there wouldn’t be resentment and jealousy by lower-echelon players, even walk ons. You would expect some of the kids who get recruited over to anonymously blow the whistle to get someone booted and get back their PT.
Well it’s not just the elite players getting paid.
The walk-ons are a different animal though. One could even say, they have the opposite role of the scholarship players.
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Question: If everyone does it, and if everyone knows it, why hasn’t the NCAA changed its rules to simply allow more compensation and level the playing field? The periodic scandals do not do the sport any good.
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mayjay said:
Question: If everyone does it, and if everyone knows it, why hasn’t the NCAA changed its rules to simply allow more compensation and level the playing field? The periodic scandals do not do the sport any good.
I would say they want it in the dark to maintain the facade of amateur athletics. More people stay happy this way and the players still get paid if they want to.
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@mayjay More compensation from whom? The NCAA is not going to compensate anyone and hurt their bottom line. People have been beating this drum forever, and they have taken a lot of heat the past couple of years and have not really budged.
If you are talking about other entities like shoe companies I think it is as simple as they want people to believe the sports are amateur and pure.
I mean just on this board there are people that still believe that so I guess it is working…
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As a follow-up on the walk-on thing. The walk-ons are part of the team, and live in the same area as the rest of the players. Elijah Elliott’s dad has a ton of money, and his kid, a walk-on, took visits to KU, Arizona and UK. It certainly never hurts to have walk-ons with wealthy parents. Those kids are going to have lots of money, and, you know, probably spend it with their friends.
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The NCAA is like a woman who marries a really rich guy(the top colleges). She basically with a wink and nod gives him permission to cheat on her but he better not flaunt it, be seen in public, or get caught. She is all about the lifestyle he gives her but still wants the mirage of a perfect marriage to brag about to her friends and family. Now if the jackass breaks one of the previously mentioned rules then “Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned”.
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On the trial itself the jury is hearing closing arguments today.
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@Woodrow I am so glad not to have to listen to that stuff. Many people think judges’ instructions just confuse the hell out of everybody, at least those who can stay awake!
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@mayjay From everything I have read the judge does not seem to be thrilled to be hearing this case.
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@BigBad oh brother!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Is that from Barnes? Lol if so.
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@BShark yes
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark yes
Yeah, that’s a bit silly coming from him considering Durant and the recruiting hauls Tennessee is getting lately.
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@Crimsonorblue22 and??
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@BShark I could totally see a scenario where Rick Barnes is like actually a boy scout. But like so naive (or maybe its ignorance) that things are going on behind his back he thinks he’s clean lol.
I mean imagine what Texas boosters were doing behind his back for him. And Nike. But he probably thinks he didn’t have recruits put in his pocket lol.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark I could totally see a scenario where Rick Barnes is like actually a boy scout. But like so naive (or maybe its ignorance) that things are going on behind his back he thinks he’s clean lol.
I mean imagine what Texas boosters were doing behind his back for him. And Nike. But he probably thinks he didn’t have recruits put in his pocket lol.
Hmm, I could buy that. Texas definitely pays though, I have zero doubt about that.
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@BShark I know UT pays. I just think Barnes may be about as clean as you can be. While still getting players who were paid on your team lol
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Just for the sake of discussion, let’s say this trial ends in an “innocent” verdict. Does the FBI move on to try the remaining assistant coaches? Or is their entire case not worth pursuing (assuming it’s still about defrauding)?
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@Gorilla72 I’d think not.
I also think the worst thing that could happen is this going through the appeals process and dragging all of this out longer
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@Gorilla72 That might depend on what they learn from the jurors.
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Maybe I have an incorrect definition of “defrauded”, but it seems like the teams who were “in play” for player but lost out due to, shall we say, better offers - aren’t those the the teams defrauded? Of course, that assumes a player would have definitely attended a different school if it weren’t for “the offer”. (All those 90%+ guys on Crystal Ball that suddenly and oddly picked a different school, for instance, at the last minute.)
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Adam Zagoria Verified account @AdamZagoria
‘Kansas’ Head coach knew of and asked for a payment to be made to Silvio de Sousa’s handler.
‘Coach Self and Coach Townsend knew of and asked Adidas to make this payment to Fenny.’
-Michael Schacter, Jim Gatto’s attorney 11:47 AM - 18 Oct 2018 from Manhattan, NY
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That’s part of the closing argument. Witnesses said differently under oath obviously.
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Imagine being the new AD… And finding out the football team is not your biggest problem after all. That has to suck
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Self has more power than Long. A lot more.
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Can’t argue that at all. That has to be true.
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cragarhawk said:
Can’t argue that at all. That has to be true.
I’m honestly not sure Long has complete power over the football program. We will find out after the season. If Bowen is retained, Long is a sock puppet.
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https://twitter.com/tsnmike/status/1053002776849108992
Gets a bit nippy here. But yeah, this stuff was NOT presented during trial. The lawyer for Gatto is making inferences in his closing argument here. Are they somewhat reasonable? Perhaps but this is far from testimony even. In fact the testimony from Gassnola said the opposite.
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I love Zagoria getting mad when the tone and intent of his first tweet on the matter were so very clear.
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Guys I know some of you – a lot of you might not agree on this , and that’s ok but I’ve thought about this and Matt Tait made some good points about this. He thoughts were and I’ve wondered on this at times but I’m kind of worried and whether you agree or not - whether you like it or not - -it is a possibility , I think if your a realist and look at it objectively you have to at least say it’s always a possibility.
That is ,with this FBI/Basketball scandal just makes you wonder like Matt said does this increase the chance of Coach Self making decision to leave to experiment with the pro game - and or retirement?
Looking at it this way: - Coach Self has not denied that he might like to dabble into Coaching in the NBA. - there has always been SOME talk about when Coach Pop from the Spurs decides to hang it up - -THAT might be the one NBA team that Coach Self would have some serious interest in. he has some connections there , look at it this way we know recruiting gets really tiring - - -Coach has even talked about things such as that. - - - If you look at it like with the Scandal , the tireless recruiting just all the Bs you put up with the rules and recruitment this scandal just might be enough for him to just say the heck with it. - -Check out Matt’s article in the LJW pretty good piece - -at least I think , think he makes a valid argument. He also said Coach Self has mentioned he doesn’t really wanna Coach late in his 60’s - Matt talks about he has pretty much ALREADY obtained what a lot of College Coach’s inspire to have: - - He has won a National title , -He is already in the Hall of fame , he for sure isn’t hurting for money - -just read the article guys - -I can’t really put it like Matt did - just makes some solid points.
Ya sure Nobody want’s it to happen - but like it or not - it IS a possibility - -maybe not immediately but just may have pushed up the time table on things - -check it out.
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I think Self was probably pretty upfront with Long during the hiring process. Remember Self sought out Long for the AD job and met with him. I don’t think this totally blindsided Long. Also Long was the AD at Arkansas. You don’t think he knows the name of the game?? He was in charge of a SEC football team for crying out loud!
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I was just talking to some people today that this has to be annoying / frustrating for Self and I absolutely think it could change his career path. I am still not convinced he is a NBA guy, but he has always said he doesn’t want to coach forever I would think this ups the timeline on his retirement date.
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Read somewhere where a former NCAA guy that dealt with rules said actually doesn’t think that in the end KU will get a whole lot handed to them. He said with as many big time schools 15-20 that is in this mess, he just doesn’t think that the NCAA will do a lot- bottom line is do they REALLY wanna mess with what makes money for them? - If they were to penalize all these schools the NCAA tourney would take a major hit -it’s just a dam mess
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Woodrow said:
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I think Self was probably pretty upfront with Long during the hiring process. Remember Self sought out Long for the AD job and met with him. I don’t think this totally blindsided Long. Also Long was the AD at Arkansas. You don’t think he knows the name of the game?? He was in charge of a SEC football team for crying out loud!
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I was just talking to some people today that this has to be annoying / frustrating for Self and I absolutely think it could change his career path. I am still not convinced he is a NBA guy, but he has always said he doesn’t want to coach forever I would think this ups the timeline on his retirement date.
your words about changing Coach Self’s career is just what I was addressing and upping the timeline Matt Tait has a pretty solid piece on this check it out - -I have to agree with you - -only the thing I might differ on is he has mentioned about how he might would like to try and give the NBA a shot. - Like you say I think it just might change the timing of his timeline to what degree - -we just don’t know
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Either way all of this is almost certainly a black eye in the court of public opinion. No matter how valid. That’s the world we live in. Whats it do as far as tarnishing self’s legacy here? Maybe it’s still too early to tell.
If the NCAA sweeps it under the rug for monetary reasons. Which I do now firmly believe they have done in the past with other programs. How will we personally look at the legacy. And again the court of public opinion. I’m sure we’ve all heard or read the ole “Dollar Bill” thing and such from other fan bases. Ya know… Coach K ratface, Calipari Slimeball. It’s all out there. Just not sure how I’d respond now to that.
Missing on some big time recruits and sitting some guys over reasonable doubt about violations in the past was at least some ammunition to refute such claims even if you thought “eh, it could be going on everywhere”
Now what will I say… What will we say to the “dollar Bill the slimeball cheater” phrase when we are certainly sure to hear it. Ya ya, but he’s our slimeball!!! Idk
What a mess
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Woodrow said:
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I think Self was probably pretty upfront with Long during the hiring process. Remember Self sought out Long for the AD job and met with him. I don’t think this totally blindsided Long. Also Long was the AD at Arkansas. You don’t think he knows the name of the game?? He was in charge of a SEC football team for crying out loud!
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I was just talking to some people today that this has to be annoying / frustrating for Self and I absolutely think it could change his career path. I am still not convinced he is a NBA guy, but he has always said he doesn’t want to coach forever I would think this ups the timeline on his retirement date.
Agree on the first one. Hope you are wrong about the 2nd but I could see it.
@jayballer73 Not sure what article you are talking about? I went to kusports and checked Tait’s articles and didn’t see this particular one. Checked his twitter as well. If you could post a link for me, that would be great.
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@jayballer73 Nvm, found it.
Link
http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/oct/17/the-5-most-pressing-questions-kansas-fan/
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- Long knows.
- I was just thinking this. This entire process makes me think he has to be contemplating retiring more now than ever. And I can’t blame him. Either you play the game and get screwed. Or you don’t play the game and get screwed. Pretty much a lose-lose situation.
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BShark said:
Woodrow said:
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I think Self was probably pretty upfront with Long during the hiring process. Remember Self sought out Long for the AD job and met with him. I don’t think this totally blindsided Long. Also Long was the AD at Arkansas. You don’t think he knows the name of the game?? He was in charge of a SEC football team for crying out loud!
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I was just talking to some people today that this has to be annoying / frustrating for Self and I absolutely think it could change his career path. I am still not convinced he is a NBA guy, but he has always said he doesn’t want to coach forever I would think this ups the timeline on his retirement date.
Agree on the first one. Hope you are wrong about the 2nd but I could see it.
@jayballer73 Not sure what article you are talking about? I went to kusports and checked Tait’s articles and didn’t see this particular one. Checked his twitter as well. If you could post a link for me, that would be great.
sorry my friend I STILL haven’t figured out how to share links. I know you all have tried to help me but I guess I’m just thick doesn’t sink in , but gald you found it anyways. - So what DID YOU think about it - -I mean he does raise some valid points guy
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Imagine if Bill Self turned KU into Indiana or UCLA instead of winning at the unprecedented rate he has. But he did it “clean” (whatever people think that means). They’d want his f*ing head for tarnishing KU’s good name in basketball.
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Imagine if the FF banner comes down. Imagine if the 14th lil 10 title is stripped. Imagine if there’s a post season ban. Then we will get to say damn that was a great run of tourney appearances in between those violations and sanctions. It’s easy to see the response from those who think rules aren’t for them cause they don’t like the rules…
The NCAA screwed us. They punished us and let others get away with it. It’s a bunch of crap. Right?
For all the convos over the years. A prevalent one has been. Would you trade any big12 titles for just one more NC, 2 more, etc. Would you miss the tourney one year for just 1 more NC etc. And of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion on all of it.
I’m capable of holding things in perspective. So here it is. And I know… Ppl arent commonly good with “IF, THEN” statements here…
If everyone else is cheating, and if that is an undeniable fact. And we are not. And that is an undeniable fact. Then… I don’t care if the program is as successful as it is now.
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@cragarhawk But you do care that it is successful, correct?
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What level of success is ok, as long as we are “clean”?
Really, what is the worst you are willing to be as long as it means staying “clean”?
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I don’t have a set standard on it. That really would be no better.
If you’re willing to trade dirt for wins, what’s a lil more dirt for a few more wins and another NC or 2 while we’re at it.
Clean is clean, and I’ll live with the record it produces. I’m not gonna stop loving Ku basketball if they lose.
I’d honestly rather hear that my team sucks and be able to say ya you’re right they aren’t very good this year, but we absolutely aren’t cheating, which is the right message for the kids we’re sending out into the world. Than to hear, 15 straight bought and paid for big 12 titles huh Mr jayhawk fan… and have to say… Ya you’re right, we bought better recruits and paid more money then you did losers…
And yes I know it’s 2018 and I don’t fit in for having that mentality. And that’s okay. My opinion doesn’t require anyone’s validation
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@cragarhawk You watch KU Football games?
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@cragarhawk You a Royals fan?
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Under the assumption that most players are getting paid, it still boils down to identifying players that fit your system, talent evaluation and coaching.
