FBI...here we go
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@Woodrow I’m sure Zion’s parents were saving up!
@Kcmatt7 Internet rumor mill, but it probably isn’t wrong.
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@Woodrow Wouldn’t he have said something more directly on point? And couldn’t Adidas, willing to float hundreds of thousands of dollar, arrange for a car and job easily enough?
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@mayjay I am not going to pretend to understand how this business of recruiting works, but I would think ( and have heard) that it is usually the team that sets up housing and cars.
How many parents of players have moved to Lawrence, and found a nice apartment / house to live in. You think they are paying market value for those…??
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Woodrow said:
How many parents of players have moved to Lawrence, and found a nice apartment / house to live in. You think they are paying market value for those…??
And have nice new cars. Plus a cushy job that is completely legal and not directly attached to KU in most cases (Ronnie Chalmers an obvious exception here).
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Tyshawn’s mom worked at Hyvee, angel was an apt complex manager, cole’s dad worked here. None were cushy jobs.
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@Woodrow Thank you very much for sharing this article. It brings up a very very interesting question.
IF KU really truly offered Zion illegal benefits then how and why did he end up at Duke? He just really wanted to play at Cameron for the one year he is required to play before going pro? Something to think about.
I have personally always assumed that the major programs “cheated” to get the top guys, KU included. I have also always assumed that the major programs with the major players are what fans want to see and this is how the NCAA makes the most money. Based on this I highly doubt that the hammer is dropped on KU or Duke or Zona or anyone else involved in this current situation. Where would the investigation go from here? What about football? That is the more lucrative sport and there is simply no way that the top programs are “clean”.
It is an unfortunate reality as a fan but life is full of unfortunate realizations. I will personally watch every game this year as I always do. It may be a bit more tainted now that the veil has been pulled away but it is what it is. Real life is hard and I personally need the escape of college basketball.
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@Woodrow Incidentally, every single story I have seen on this conversation is based entirely on Dan Wetzel’s tweets. Since TV was prohibited from this trial, did Wetzel record the reading of the transcrpt on his phone? Try to transcribe it? I know how hard it is to accruately transcribe in real time–my hearings were tape-recorded and I often had to replay the tape to get it accurate.
Assuming Wetzel did not have a recording or access to the transcrpt itself, the quotes he tweeted might have been truncated to make KT sound worse. But that is only one possibility–the actual words could also have been much worse.
And the transcription could also have been inaccurate. Unlikely, but I had a military client who contended that his record of trial was inaccurate. I asked him how so, and he said that in the 45 pages covering his guilty plea, he had really said “no” every time the judge asked if he did something alleged in the indictment, and they just ignored him the whole time. He denied drawing the map showing his crime, he denied signing his confession, he denied agreeing to his plea bargain…
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@Woodrow Very good read and I agree with it. They have let Coach K and Dook do whatever they pleased for decades based off of his image. I don’t think the NCAA has the balls to take down a high profile coach like that.
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@kjayhawks Not only Coach K but Duke as a program. You take away all the blue bloods and the market for the game and tournament plummets. You know what else plummets… The money!
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@BShark That happens everywhere aswell IMO. Michael Beasleys mom went from rags to riches when he at KSU. She lived in a multi million dollars condo out by the country club, his former agent leaked a ton of info about this and the NCAA didn’t even care to look at it. Also Shaq, Charles Barkley and Jay Williams all have admitted to being paid in college for nothing to happen. Several football players have as well. The SMU death penalty is still laughable because they knew several other Texas schools were doing the same thing.
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@Woodrow Yep, they ain’t gonna bite the hands thats feeding them. They can say they are for the athletes or who ever but they are about money just like everyone else in this world, not limited but including our government.
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kjayhawks said:
@BShark That happens everywhere aswell IMO. Michael Beasleys mom went from rags to riches when he at KSU. She lived in a multi million dollars condo out by the country club, his former agent leaked a ton of info about this and the NCAA didn’t even care to look at it. Also Shaq, Charles Barkley and Jay Williams all have admitted to being paid in college for nothing to happen. Several football players have as well. The SMU death penalty is still laughable because they knew several other Texas schools were doing the same thing.
Absolutely. I didn’t mean to imply that it only goes on at KU. It is wide-spread.
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@BShark Is there a trickle down to the rest of the team? I can’t believe there wouldn’t be resentment and jealousy by lower-echelon players, even walk ons. You would expect some of the kids who get recruited over to anonymously blow the whistle to get someone booted and get back their PT.
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mayjay said:
@BShark Is there a trickle down to the rest of the team? I can’t believe there wouldn’t be resentment and jealousy by lower-echelon players, even walk ons. You would expect some of the kids who get recruited over to anonymously blow the whistle to get someone booted and get back their PT.
Well it’s not just the elite players getting paid.
The walk-ons are a different animal though. One could even say, they have the opposite role of the scholarship players.
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Question: If everyone does it, and if everyone knows it, why hasn’t the NCAA changed its rules to simply allow more compensation and level the playing field? The periodic scandals do not do the sport any good.
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mayjay said:
Question: If everyone does it, and if everyone knows it, why hasn’t the NCAA changed its rules to simply allow more compensation and level the playing field? The periodic scandals do not do the sport any good.
I would say they want it in the dark to maintain the facade of amateur athletics. More people stay happy this way and the players still get paid if they want to.
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@mayjay More compensation from whom? The NCAA is not going to compensate anyone and hurt their bottom line. People have been beating this drum forever, and they have taken a lot of heat the past couple of years and have not really budged.
If you are talking about other entities like shoe companies I think it is as simple as they want people to believe the sports are amateur and pure.
I mean just on this board there are people that still believe that so I guess it is working…
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As a follow-up on the walk-on thing. The walk-ons are part of the team, and live in the same area as the rest of the players. Elijah Elliott’s dad has a ton of money, and his kid, a walk-on, took visits to KU, Arizona and UK. It certainly never hurts to have walk-ons with wealthy parents. Those kids are going to have lots of money, and, you know, probably spend it with their friends.
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The NCAA is like a woman who marries a really rich guy(the top colleges). She basically with a wink and nod gives him permission to cheat on her but he better not flaunt it, be seen in public, or get caught. She is all about the lifestyle he gives her but still wants the mirage of a perfect marriage to brag about to her friends and family. Now if the jackass breaks one of the previously mentioned rules then “Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned”.
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On the trial itself the jury is hearing closing arguments today.
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@Woodrow I am so glad not to have to listen to that stuff. Many people think judges’ instructions just confuse the hell out of everybody, at least those who can stay awake!
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@mayjay From everything I have read the judge does not seem to be thrilled to be hearing this case.
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@BigBad oh brother!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Is that from Barnes? Lol if so.
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@BShark yes
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark yes
Yeah, that’s a bit silly coming from him considering Durant and the recruiting hauls Tennessee is getting lately.
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@Crimsonorblue22 and??
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@BShark I could totally see a scenario where Rick Barnes is like actually a boy scout. But like so naive (or maybe its ignorance) that things are going on behind his back he thinks he’s clean lol.
I mean imagine what Texas boosters were doing behind his back for him. And Nike. But he probably thinks he didn’t have recruits put in his pocket lol.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark I could totally see a scenario where Rick Barnes is like actually a boy scout. But like so naive (or maybe its ignorance) that things are going on behind his back he thinks he’s clean lol.
I mean imagine what Texas boosters were doing behind his back for him. And Nike. But he probably thinks he didn’t have recruits put in his pocket lol.
Hmm, I could buy that. Texas definitely pays though, I have zero doubt about that.
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@BShark I know UT pays. I just think Barnes may be about as clean as you can be. While still getting players who were paid on your team lol
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Just for the sake of discussion, let’s say this trial ends in an “innocent” verdict. Does the FBI move on to try the remaining assistant coaches? Or is their entire case not worth pursuing (assuming it’s still about defrauding)?
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@Gorilla72 I’d think not.
I also think the worst thing that could happen is this going through the appeals process and dragging all of this out longer
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@Gorilla72 That might depend on what they learn from the jurors.
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Maybe I have an incorrect definition of “defrauded”, but it seems like the teams who were “in play” for player but lost out due to, shall we say, better offers - aren’t those the the teams defrauded? Of course, that assumes a player would have definitely attended a different school if it weren’t for “the offer”. (All those 90%+ guys on Crystal Ball that suddenly and oddly picked a different school, for instance, at the last minute.)
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Adam Zagoria Verified account @AdamZagoria
‘Kansas’ Head coach knew of and asked for a payment to be made to Silvio de Sousa’s handler.
‘Coach Self and Coach Townsend knew of and asked Adidas to make this payment to Fenny.’
-Michael Schacter, Jim Gatto’s attorney 11:47 AM - 18 Oct 2018 from Manhattan, NY
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That’s part of the closing argument. Witnesses said differently under oath obviously.
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Imagine being the new AD… And finding out the football team is not your biggest problem after all. That has to suck
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Self has more power than Long. A lot more.
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Can’t argue that at all. That has to be true.
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cragarhawk said:
Can’t argue that at all. That has to be true.
I’m honestly not sure Long has complete power over the football program. We will find out after the season. If Bowen is retained, Long is a sock puppet.
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https://twitter.com/tsnmike/status/1053002776849108992
Gets a bit nippy here. But yeah, this stuff was NOT presented during trial. The lawyer for Gatto is making inferences in his closing argument here. Are they somewhat reasonable? Perhaps but this is far from testimony even. In fact the testimony from Gassnola said the opposite.
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I love Zagoria getting mad when the tone and intent of his first tweet on the matter were so very clear.
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Guys I know some of you – a lot of you might not agree on this , and that’s ok but I’ve thought about this and Matt Tait made some good points about this. He thoughts were and I’ve wondered on this at times but I’m kind of worried and whether you agree or not - whether you like it or not - -it is a possibility , I think if your a realist and look at it objectively you have to at least say it’s always a possibility.
That is ,with this FBI/Basketball scandal just makes you wonder like Matt said does this increase the chance of Coach Self making decision to leave to experiment with the pro game - and or retirement?
Looking at it this way: - Coach Self has not denied that he might like to dabble into Coaching in the NBA. - there has always been SOME talk about when Coach Pop from the Spurs decides to hang it up - -THAT might be the one NBA team that Coach Self would have some serious interest in. he has some connections there , look at it this way we know recruiting gets really tiring - - -Coach has even talked about things such as that. - - - If you look at it like with the Scandal , the tireless recruiting just all the Bs you put up with the rules and recruitment this scandal just might be enough for him to just say the heck with it. - -Check out Matt’s article in the LJW pretty good piece - -at least I think , think he makes a valid argument. He also said Coach Self has mentioned he doesn’t really wanna Coach late in his 60’s - Matt talks about he has pretty much ALREADY obtained what a lot of College Coach’s inspire to have: - - He has won a National title , -He is already in the Hall of fame , he for sure isn’t hurting for money - -just read the article guys - -I can’t really put it like Matt did - just makes some solid points.
Ya sure Nobody want’s it to happen - but like it or not - it IS a possibility - -maybe not immediately but just may have pushed up the time table on things - -check it out.
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I think Self was probably pretty upfront with Long during the hiring process. Remember Self sought out Long for the AD job and met with him. I don’t think this totally blindsided Long. Also Long was the AD at Arkansas. You don’t think he knows the name of the game?? He was in charge of a SEC football team for crying out loud!
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I was just talking to some people today that this has to be annoying / frustrating for Self and I absolutely think it could change his career path. I am still not convinced he is a NBA guy, but he has always said he doesn’t want to coach forever I would think this ups the timeline on his retirement date.
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Read somewhere where a former NCAA guy that dealt with rules said actually doesn’t think that in the end KU will get a whole lot handed to them. He said with as many big time schools 15-20 that is in this mess, he just doesn’t think that the NCAA will do a lot- bottom line is do they REALLY wanna mess with what makes money for them? - If they were to penalize all these schools the NCAA tourney would take a major hit -it’s just a dam mess
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Woodrow said:
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I think Self was probably pretty upfront with Long during the hiring process. Remember Self sought out Long for the AD job and met with him. I don’t think this totally blindsided Long. Also Long was the AD at Arkansas. You don’t think he knows the name of the game?? He was in charge of a SEC football team for crying out loud!
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I was just talking to some people today that this has to be annoying / frustrating for Self and I absolutely think it could change his career path. I am still not convinced he is a NBA guy, but he has always said he doesn’t want to coach forever I would think this ups the timeline on his retirement date.
your words about changing Coach Self’s career is just what I was addressing and upping the timeline Matt Tait has a pretty solid piece on this check it out - -I have to agree with you - -only the thing I might differ on is he has mentioned about how he might would like to try and give the NBA a shot. - Like you say I think it just might change the timing of his timeline to what degree - -we just don’t know
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Either way all of this is almost certainly a black eye in the court of public opinion. No matter how valid. That’s the world we live in. Whats it do as far as tarnishing self’s legacy here? Maybe it’s still too early to tell.
If the NCAA sweeps it under the rug for monetary reasons. Which I do now firmly believe they have done in the past with other programs. How will we personally look at the legacy. And again the court of public opinion. I’m sure we’ve all heard or read the ole “Dollar Bill” thing and such from other fan bases. Ya know… Coach K ratface, Calipari Slimeball. It’s all out there. Just not sure how I’d respond now to that.
Missing on some big time recruits and sitting some guys over reasonable doubt about violations in the past was at least some ammunition to refute such claims even if you thought “eh, it could be going on everywhere”
Now what will I say… What will we say to the “dollar Bill the slimeball cheater” phrase when we are certainly sure to hear it. Ya ya, but he’s our slimeball!!! Idk
What a mess
