What happened to the Royals?
-
This is not a gloating post. I watched Sox-Royals last night and saw two teams on the field that have fewer wins combined than 4 AL teams. Now the Sox have been scuffling since 2012, right about the time the Royals began their fabulous run.
Does this reveal how hard it is for small market teams to maintain their success? Or is it just a matter of putting all their eggs in one basket for the ultimate prize which they accomplished?
Looking at the box score for game 5 that year they won they played 4 guys who played last night. Looking at their pitching staff from that season, there aren’t many pieces left either.
So what happened to the Royals?
-
@wissox Back to the old ways of letting guys go they think they can’t afford, either by trading them for lower value players or just watching them walk.
They are all in on young pitchers right now.
-
It was in another thread but go back and look at their high draft picks the last 5 or so years. Just absolutely dreadful. When you are a small market team you have to hit on draft picks especially ones in the top 10. For all the praise Dayton gets his drafting has been sub par.
-
A lot of it plays into a teams farm system too. I can remember when KC had one of the better farms systems around> - -Like wasn’t their system pretty high pretty dam salty when Frank White was around? - - -A lot of factors play in.
-
Poor drafting and player development led to a bad farm system. The Royals are not able to maintain a top 5 payroll, even when near the top for TV ratings and getting strong attendance.
The key is to limit the down cycles. Spend 2 or 3 years building back up after 5 years of being competitive. That’s a decent trade off.
-
The draft was the Sox’ downfall for many years too. Sounds like most of you agree they have been poor in that area.
@Jayballer73, the Royals used to do a good job but that was a long time ago. They had a long period of sustained success. Baseball has changed a ton since then.
-
Draft picks have been laughable and the beginning of the end started with resigning Gordon for way too much money. They could’ve kept a good chunk of the WS team together had they not done that. I’m a fan of Gordon but he’s easily replaced IMO.
-
I like Gordon but no question he is way overpaid. I would have preferred keeping Zobrist instead.
-
Woodrow said:
It was in another thread but go back and look at their high draft picks the last 5 or so years. Just absolutely dreadful. When you are a small market team you have to hit on draft picks especially ones in the top 10. For all the praise Dayton gets his drafting has been sub par.
I’m not sure we can say one negative thing about Dayton. There was no hope before he arrived. Lets not forget the Glass family was running the Royals like they were a clearance aisle at Walmart until Dayton arrived.
Agree or disagree with Dayton’s drafting. Half the MLB would line up to ink Dayton to their team if he were to come on the open market.
-
Moore deserves lots of credit for drafting Moustakas, Hosmer, Duffy, Dyson, Holland, etc. and signing Perez, Herrera, Ventura, etc. That built the World Series teams.
But Moore’s picks since about 2012 have largely been failures.
I can praise Moore for nailing the 2007, 2008 and 2009 drafts while also recognizing that Moore has missed on his last several drafts.
If he gets back to the groove he had in 2007-2009, KC might be planning a parade, but if he stays on the current path, he won’t have a job in a few years.
-
@wissox , Whenever a post starts with “This is not a gloating post” - - - - it’s a gloating post. lol
-
Read a trailor last night while watching NY & the Mets last on MLB network - - -saying that the Royals were on pace for a 46-116 season. Worst in Major league history , that’s not good. – I’m ready for football believe it or not lol
-
Royals traded a pitching prospect for Brian Goodwin today. I’ll miss B Good. Good kid.
-
Trades like this happened
-
The KC Brewers…
-
-
Trade looks like a decent return. Still passed on $3M salary though… Probably could have gotten more if we had eaten it. But Royals will be Royals.
-
I have already set up my schedule to watch the Royals next World Series…in 2045…
-
Kcmatt7 said:
Trade looks like a decent return. Still passed on $3M salary though… Probably could have gotten more if we had eaten it. But Royals will be Royals.
This is the problem with the deals the Royals have made. They should have absorbed the rest of the salary for the Brewers if it meant getting a better return. Refusing to eat salary is shortsighted. You’re building for the future here.
-
@justanotherfan It’s a sad thing for the fans to see that, imo.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Just a year after the White Sox’ next!
-
I think the White Sox have to wait longer
-
@JayHawkFanToo No you wait longer because yours was in 2015, mine was in 2005.
-
I still don’t see it from the White Sox… not that I’m saying I see anything from the Royals lol
-
@Kcmatt7 Red Sox yankees Astro’s for the foreseeable future. Throw in the Dodgers as well. They are all very good and pretty young. We’re just going to have to deal with it. Lol
-
@dylans It will be a solid 5 years I think. No surprise though…
I’d actually lump the Braves in on the NL side. I expect them to get involved in FA this offseason will only have about 70M on the books headed into 2019. I could see them spending near 180M next season. Phillies may be in the same boat. The East division in both leagues look like they will be dog fights in the future.
-
Didn’t the White Sox waited 88 years between championships? You should expect the next one in 2093. The Royals waited only 30 years so we should expect the next one in 2045.
-
@Kcmatt7 White Sox have the 3rd ranked farm system in the majors and boatloads of money to spend. They’re following the blueprint of the Astros and I hate to say, Cubs. Remember the Astros lost over 100 games 3 years in a row during their rebuild.
@JayHawkFanToo We’re not waiting another 88 years! I need more than one WS in my lifetime.
-
You might want to consider following a different team if you want more championships.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Sox gonna be really good in about 2 years. No guarantees that hot prospects work out, but good days are coming.
-
AL Central is down now because Chicago, Detroit and Kansas City are all in the midst of a rebuild. Chicago is the furthest along on their rebuild, so they should start winning in two years, around the time that Cleveland starts to fall off. Detroit and Kansas City are about three years behind that, with their best minor league talent still down in A ball, so they are about 5 years from being truly in contention, around the time that Cleveland is starting their full rebuild and Chicago is peaking.
Minnesota is in the worst shape, to be honest. They aren’t really rebuilding at this point, but they also haven’t really peaked. I don’t see them surpassing Cleveland now or Chicago in two or three years, so their best chance may already be behind them (2017 Wild Card loss).
That’s the tough thing about small markets. You have a relatively short window to win in. The Royals maximized their window the most (2 World Series, one title). Tampa, Oakland and Pittsburgh all had longer windows, but only Tampa made it to the World Series, and none of them won a title. Once that window opens, you really have to push everything into one or two years because that chance may be gone quicker than you think.
That’s why I like what Milwaukee has done this year. They realize that this may be their best shot at the playoffs and potentially the World Series either this year or next year. Now, maybe they don’t win it, but its smart to focus on the next year or two rather than extending the window long into the future, with no guarantee of payoff.
-
@justanotherfan I’m not smart enough to figure how this would all work, but the NFL has a genius plan in my opinion. No one ever talks small market in the NFL. Frequent Super Bowl winners Pittsburgh and GB are far from major markets. But their parity ideals means teams like them can compete at the highest level.
Baseball hasn’t figured that out. St. Louis is probably the most successful small market team in MLB. A lot contributes to this but it’s tiresome year after year to see the hottest free agents go to LA, NY, and Boston. It’s also tiresome to see teams that develop talent to lose them when they reach free agency. For a long time, teams like Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, and KC were basically farm systems for the large market teams. Not a good way to run your sport. Especially when you consider all of those places have very loyal fanbases that will support the team when they’re successful.
-
@wissox NFL has a hard Salary Cap and a weak Players Union.
-
As @Kcmatt7 said, it all has to do with salary caps, revenue sharing, and those things.
MLB does not have a salary cap. As a result, the MLB has team salaries ranging from Boston at $228M and Tampa Bay at a little under $70M.
In the NFL, the salary cap is about $177M, with teams spending about that much - there is some complex accounting that goes into cap hits, etc., but the Giants can’t spend three times what the Jaguars can.
In the NBA, there is both a salary cap and a salary floor. The NFL has a cap, but no floor, but probably has the best revenue sharing plan of all the major sports (in large part because the television deals are all national deals).
The reason basketball and football can do this is revenue sharing. In those leagues, the money goes into the same pot, so as the pot grows larger, everyone gets an equal piece of an ever growing pie.
Baseball is not like that. They have only limited revenue sharing, which means that a team like the Yankees, operating in the largest market, can capture a much larger payout from its television deal than teams like Tampa, KC and Milwaukee can. The NBA dealt with this problem by tying TV money into BRI (basketball related income) and making that a part of their revenue sharing plan. Since only a percentage of BRI goes to player salaries, the NBA basically guarantees profitability.
To really make things fair, you have to have revenue sharing, a salary cap and a salary floor. The NBA does this best, tying the cap and floor to BRI. As that income goes up, the players share in the increased profits. The NFL has the best revenue sharing, but doesn’t share that revenue with the players (why the NFLPA is incredibly weak compared to MLBPA and NBPA).
Baseball probably won’t get a cap until they get comprehensive revenue sharing to ensure that a team like Tampa Bay won’t get buried by the cap, but they also need a floor to make sure an owner won’t just pocket the revenue instead of spending it on salary.
-
@Kcmatt7 Also, the MLB has no real cap and weak owners.
-
@HighEliteMajor A lot of factors to it, but the MLB players union is pretty much always financially prepared for a holdout.
The NFL Union is not.
-
It’s hard for guys with such a short window of a pro career (nfl players avg 5 years) to hold out. Especially if they haven’t gotten the big contract yet.
-
Tomorrow is the final installment of the scintillating Sox Royals rivalry of 2018 in the race for the bottom.
-
@wissox Baltimore is streaking in to make it a real race!
-
Nothing is more Royals than being a historically bad team, AND somehow still getting the 2nd pick in the draft.
-
@mayjay I know Baltimore is messing it up for both or our teams. Looked like a sure thing Royals draft 1, Sox 2 or vice versa, but no, they got to trade Manny Machado.
-
The O’s were awful before the Machado trade. This just guaranteed they would not get better.
-
@justanotherfan You’re right. They went downhill very quickly.
-
Royals win innings 1-6, then the Sox win 7-9.
-
@wissox Still just one game out of the #1 pick. Gotta choke and win some games. Lol
-
Daughter won tickets for Sox game Tuesday at work and invited me. Sox announce they’re bringing up their superstar minor league pitcher Michael Kopech and he’ll start Tuesday. Jackpot! Kopech is the guy the Sox got for Chris Sale.
-
wissox said:
Royals win innings 1-6, then the Sox win 7-9.
Obviously, official standings should reflect this. KC should be credited with 2/3 of a win.
-
@wissox Have fun at the game!
-
@dylans I ended up not going! Today was 1st day of school, forecast was kind of bad. Turns out my hunch was right. 1 hour rain delay after two innings meant Kopech only pitched 2 innings. He was terrific, striking out 4 including ending a 1st and 3rd with nobody out threat with two K’s and a popup.
-
@wissox Cool and overcast here today as well. I haven’t gotten out of my rain suit all day. It’s more of a sweatsuit at this point than a rain suit though. Sorry about the game, hope you can catch another one soon!
-
@wissox at least your hunch was right
️
