Keegan Gushing Over McCormack
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The highlight videos at the end of the article that @wrwlumpy posted are pretty good. Agbaji sticks out to me as a guy that will make the right plays. I was a little concerned about where he and McCormack would fit, but I can’t see keeping either of those guys off the floor.
Cunliffe is playing much more downhill than he was before. His shot and handle are more confident. He looks like another guy that will get some minutes.
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@justanotherfan I think McCormack and Agbaji will be real good for KU in time. Self has generally done well with smart players that just need to develop physically more. And really, it sounds like McCormack took it upon himself to really better himself in that regard over his SR year.
I’m thinking McCormack ends up a 3 year starter, Agbaji 1-2 year starter. Will be interesting to see if he takes a RS this year. That would actually say a lot about his long term plan and what the staff thinks about him (quite positive). I think more likely is that he saves his RS year just in case he ends up transferring.
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@HighEliteMajor I’ve got a little bit of Missouri in me I guess because i say ‘show me’ with the highly touted freshmen of the last half decade. I did with Joel (he did) Wigs (he mostly kind of did), BMac, (he did), JJ (he mostly did), Cheick (he didn’t), Oubre (he is now) Cliff (he didn’t), Selden, (he finally did), Perry (he did), Frankamp (he didn’t) Bragg (he didn’t).
I certainly hope Keegan is right for the first time since last century. I want to see a KU freshman take the country by storm, to be the headliner, to help us win the whole darn thing for a change.
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Frankamp wasn’t that highly touted compared to most of the others listed, tbh. Not sure he belongs in the same group.
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@BShark The reason I included Connor (and I didn’t mull over this list too long!) was we were quite giddy with the prospect of him coming with his supposedly great shooting. We thought we were getting another Jeff Boschee!
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@wissox His scouting report said unlimited range. Had me pretty excited.
Xavier Henry would have been a more hyped (top 5) guy though.
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@wissox Fair enough.
I do think Keegan is overhyping McCormack a bit. I don’t think he is a guy that is going to come in and dominate year one. Buuut that’s not the end of the world as he should be a 4 year guy.
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Think about this. Is there any one of the five bigs we have now - Doke, Dedric, DeSousa, McCormack, or Lightfoot - that you would trade now for Lucas or Traylor for the 2018-19 season?
If you would, you’re the guy I want to trade with.
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Frankamp was a great shooter. The issue was that his other skills didn’t translate to Power 5 basketball. His ball handling wasn’t sharp enough. He wasn’t athletic enough. His shooting would play, but his other skills lagged behind enough that he couldn’t tap into that. In hindsight, Frankamp probably should have taken a redshirt year if he wanted to come to KU, or should have gone the Wichita State route from the beginning. He just wasn’t physically ready to play and contribute at KU from day one.
Looking around the state of Kansas, that seems to happen to a lot of the players from here. Semi Ojeleye was certainly talented enough (getting run deep into the playoffs for the Celtics), but wasn’t ready to play at Duke as a freshman. It took Perry half a season before he was really up to speed at KU. Travis Releford, Tyrel Reed and Brady Morningstar all played 7 minutes or less their freshman years, looking more likely that they would never contribute than become starters at KU.
That makes me wonder about the current group of Kansas kids that KU has on its radar (Harvey, JRE, Berry, etc.). All of those guys are good players and definitely have a place at the D1 level. The question is whether they will be ready day one as a freshman, or whether they go the Shavon Shields route (started basically immediately at Nebraska), the Perry Ellis route (need until conference play starts) the Ojeleye route (move to a mid major conference and become a standout), the Releford/Reed route (barely play as a freshman, become a contributor later in their career), or the Frankamp route (transfer with up and down results). We will have to see how this will play out.
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@justanotherfan Of the former in state players under Self, only Ellis and Frankamp were top 50 players. Releford was between 75-100, Reed and Morningstar were both sub 150 players. Reed and Morningstar both overachieved in their KU careers relative to their recruiting rankings, Releford did what was expected as did Ellis. Frankamp is the only one who underachieved at KU relative to his ranking.
JRE is by far the highest ranked player from Kansas in a long time and should contribute immediately to Kansas. Harvey is in the Ellis and Frankamp neighborhood where it’ll probably take some time to adjust to D1 ball.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Simien was pretty high I think. Played for Self but recruited by Roy.
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I took a broader look because the sample size is fairly small since Kansas only produces a few D1 players each year. KU, as the premier program should get the best players in that group every year. The fact that most of those guys were not immediate contributors suggests that players from Kansas may need a bit more seasoning, but can become successful college players in time - I’d consider most all of those guys successes eventually. It just took an extra year or two (and maybe an extra stop along the way) before they realized their true talent.
I agree that JRE is the most talented Kansas high schooler in a long time. He should end up being a McD AA next year and will probably be a consensus top 20 recruit (24/7 and Rivals have him top 20 - ESPN does not, but hasn’t updated yet). Harvey may be consensus top 40 by the time all is said and done, will likely be consensus top 50 either way. So there’s definitely talent there, and I think both will succeed as freshmen at the D1 level.
It’s more a development question than a talent question. We can see the end result. It’s just a question of how to ensure keeping the players on track to achieve that result.
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Self is building an absolutely Tony Bennett style team from physical, athleticism and skills points of view, but I have a hunch he might go way beyond what Tony has done.
Lots of athletic bigs expressed in KU inches that when two inches are subtracted equate to Bennet’s guys, low skills, good perimeter athleticism sans trey shooting, great looking regular season record, high rank, and quick out, when it meets a team a with solid three big man rotation and outside shooting.
Its going to be very hairy come next January watching Self shorten the bench to four bigs bigs and then three in March.
Moore on point. No trey.
Two impressive wings. No trey.
Two bigs. No trey.
But we have some 5-stars and we have a 4 big rotation til Self shortens it to three.
Whew, we are in the way back machine, Mr. Peabody.
Watch those bigs rotating hi-low.
May be Self is expecting the refs to go back to “letting’em play” bang ball.
One problem all these bigs might solve is this: fuggeddabout driving for the short trey, and the long trey, boys, because TPTB just won’t give us the calls in the CARNEY. So: just play dunk ball. its all we can do come March. Let’s do it all season long, til we get really sharp at it, okay?
And we’ll rough up whomever they’ll let us rough up.
Heck, if we get good enough at bang ball, I won’t even shorten the bench…for the bigs. We’ll just give 20-25 fouls in the paint. By, god, we’ll eliminate the short three AND the medium 2, and just see how much they like shooting nothing but treys. Might as well, because they are going to call more fouls on us than they do on them, so why don’t we just take what they give us–fouling–and use it on them, eh? By god, we’ll foul them into the next century the moment they step inside the trey stripe. I LUV gettin’ back to puttin’ a body on’em ball!!! HA!!! Then on the other end we’ll just man up and feed the post for dunks with all our foulin’ bigs. Oh, and you short, skinny fellas out on the perimeter, you’re gonna get in on the action, too. No more of that fool’s gold “I shoota three” stuff, though. And absolutely flippin’ positively none of that mid range drivin’ Nike power team high school junk either. None of Cal’s hop, skip, and jump rope offense stuff here at KU. NO SIR-EEE! You perimeter guys are going to 110% dedicated to skywalkin’!!! Every shot a lob!!! Oil up the springs guys, cause you guys are going to spend more time above the rim than the god danged field house roof!!!
Ooooh, weeeeee, we are going to set the record for most dunks by a team in a season, you unnnnnnnerstand!!!
Me and Cin, we figured it out on a napkin over Fog Lifter this morning. We are going to make 80% on our FGAs this season. We frankly don’t care if the stinking referees give us a single FTA all season. We just don’t even need FTAs, or Treys.
Welcome to take what they give us 2018-2019 style!!!
By God I’m gonna have Garth Brooks write us a Dunk Song and we will get the band to play it every time we bring the ball up court!
Now, don’t worry, boys, we’ll fast break every once in while to keep’em on their toes. But remember, nothing but dunks on fast breaks, too.
Every shot a dunk; that’s they motto of the 2018-2019 Jaybirds!!!
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Barney said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Simien was pretty high I think. Played for Self but recruited by Roy.
Just to be sure, he played 2 years for Coach Williams and 2 years for Coach Self.
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I recall Sim was injured most of the time prior to his last season, when he played so marvelously.
Riverboat Bill gambled big time on him and he stayed pretty healthy that last year.
Self apparently figured that Wayne got injured using all that bulk being athletic, so Bill just glued one of his tennis shoes to a low block and fed him down there all season long. Sim hardly moved from that low block on offense.
On defense, he just muscled guys down low.
Self pretty much declared running verboten for the whole team.
Playing half court and just feeding him on the low block turned Wayne into a pretty durable player for one season.
But then he went to the NBA where everyone has to use their athleticism, and the same old injury problems surfaced for Wayne.
Man, Simien was a great player when he was healthy though!
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I do believe we will be seeing a really big lineup some of the time this coming season. That means running 3 bigs sometimes. Dedric can play the swing guard 3. This was all mentioned on KUSports today. I think it was Tom. Dedric would be the absolute perfect 3 if he was 6’6"… but because he is 6’9" he isn’t? Of course he is… just has 3 inches more of an advantage!
The “Dirty Deed” can score from anywhere on the floor. Might as well groom him for his highest draft spot in the NBA… as a 3!
We really flipped things around this time… less focus with our perimeter because we have less of a trey threat, while we are rich in the post. With options like Dedric at the 3, I don’t see why Bill won’t do it. He’ll take advantage of the talent he has, and for this coming year, we will be rich with bigs.
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Simien had a shoulder injury at the end of his sophomore year and was healthy his last two season when he received All- American Honors in both seasons and played 32 of 33 games as a junior averaging 32.7 MPG and almost a double double and 26 of 30 as a senior averaging a team leading 34.3 mpg and a double double. Much like TRob, Simien was tweener, great in college but not necessarily suited for the NBA and this is the reason he did not stick in the League and played overseas for 3 years after which he left because of a higher calling.
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I agree with most of what you said, although Dedric is not as athletic as most 3’s at the next level. I think he can be a force as a three in college, but he’s a stretch 4 (maybe even a small ball 5, depending on defense) in the NBA.
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So how do we play those 4 guard lineups? The novas? I really liked our O the last 2 years.(especially w/JJ at the 4j. I’m still a big believer in the live and die by the 3, got to score inside! Lots of options.
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To reiterate…He was fighting injuries all or key parts of most of his college years and really only fulfilled his potential his last one. His was one of the most snake-bitten-by-injury players of great potential I have seen at KU and before in highschool. Mostly unfulfilled potential til his last season. The great difference between Sim and Bill Bridges was that Bridges could perform at high levels when injured, and Sim had to be well to play well. I wasn’t surprised he did not cut it in the NBA. He had to be well to excell. Players like Bridges and Larry Bird probably played through greater injuries for a decade or more than what kept Sim out any given season. But there just are differing thresholds for different players. Sim was wonderful when well, but he just wasn’t a great enough talent to overcome the chronic injuries that Bridges or Bird did. Not a knock. Just the reality. But that one season Sim had was a great one.
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@jaybate-1.0 My bad memory says he (Simien) originally got hurt practicing for the McD game in HS. Blocked a shot against the glass and dislocated his shoulder I believe.
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Works for me. I just remember I had a nephew that was going to have to guard him in some game or other and was never so relieved as when Sim got the wing injury, so he didn’t have to face him.
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@JayHawkFanToo I recall the injury directly … I was at the game vs. TAM at AFH. Simien had hurt it earlier in the year and had come back to action. His time on the sidelines opened the door for one of my all time favorites, Jeff Graves.
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@justanotherfan Perry Ellis was rated very similarly to the Morris twins and T-Rob. All 4 of those men took roughly the same time to really become impact players and fir the lightbulb to turn on for them at KU. Players from the state of Kansas don’t take any longer than comparably ranked players from any other state. You’ll always have a handful that develop quicker than normal or expected, you’ll always have a few that never develop as expected, but the majority will develop at a similar pace to everybody else rated similarly to them.
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Simien was healthy in his freshman,junior and senior years and only injured in the last part of his sophomore year; I posted his stats above. I don’t know where you get the idea he was “snake bitten” at all. A player does not get to be an All American for two years running and National Senior POY by being snake bitten.
His short stint in the NBA had nothing to do with injuries, unless you count salmonella (which he had during the summer league) to be an injury; his game simply did not translate to the higher level…pretty much like TRob.
Perhaps you have him confused with another player?
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Yes, indeed. He injured his shoulder in January and had season ending surgery. Graves had himself a nice NCAA tournament and opened the door for him to play some at the higher level.
I remember Simien being pretty upset when Coach William left and uttered the famous…“I gave my right arm for him, literally. I gave my right arm for that man.”
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According to Bill Self, Simien had a groin injury almost his entire junior year (when he was 3rd team All America).
http://m.kusports.com/news/2004/nov/07/simien_tired_of/?templates=mobile
He also lost 4 games as a senior with a thumb injury.
As a pro, he lost almost his whole 2nd season to his salmonella infection because he kept suffering repeated setbacks for months. Then he had a knee injury, and surgery, at the beginning of the Miami’s next season’s camp that kept him out of exhibitions. The trade to Minnesota followed, and he was cut thereafter.
I think it is fair to say that he was plagued by bad luck, and by being unavailable due to physical ailments and injuries during the most important stage of his nascent pro career right when he could have really proved himself.
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Jaybate’s recollection seems to have been the impression of others, too (including me). From a predraft analysis of Wayne: “The other weakness to talk about is his tendency to get injured, and missed time due to injury as recently as January. Other than these two issues, there is little not to like about Simien. However, these aren’t minor gripes. It’s not good to see a player who will be forced to rely on brute strength and physicality come up lame so often.”
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I agree… he isn’t as athletic as many 3s in the league… but give him time. He has all kinds of potential for improvement, including improving his conditioning for the next level.
These guys all think they are in shape. When players think that, there is always lots of room for improvement because players can always be in better shape.
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To reiterate, etc.
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Are there legit odds that DeSousa gets to play another year at KU? Or this wishful thinking?
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I think you are taking Coach Self’s words out of context; he did not call it an injury but a groin tweak and he played 35 out 36 games that year and the rest of the “injuries,” other than the shoulder, were minor and something that most players, both in college and the NBA deal with on a daily basis. If you look at pictures of locker rooms before after practice and games you will see lots of players getting treatment for one type or another of minor assorted ailments. I played only to JuCo level varsity sports, which is not even close to the level of Division I, and I can tell you that at one time or another every member of the team had an injury or tweak and we just had our before and after game/practice procedures to deal with them; it is the nature of the business.
Injuries did not prevent Simien from sticking in the NBA, he was the stereotypical tweener whose game did not translate to the NBA. TRob, who was the runner up for POY, had the same issue. Embiid who did not have nearly the success Simien had in college was out his entire first NBA season and most of the second due to injuries and he is in the League. If a player has NBA talent, he will stay in the League regardless of injuries (see top 76ers players) and not just go play overseas, unless the injuries are career enders such as Yao Ming.
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@DoubleDD everyone is preparing like he’ll be eligible and will play.
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@DoubleDD We’ve been this route before with the NCAA. I’m completely pessimistic until proven otherwise. And they probably won’t be able to make a decision until December, right?
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@JayHawkFanToo You have a near-Herculean ability to keep pushing the same opinion, unfazed by actual facts like the draft evaluation regarding his being prone to injuries in college, or Self’s evaluation that you took out of context. Sure, all players get twinges and aches, but the coach definitely doesn’t specifically bring up a lengthy nagging injury about all players (sure, call it a tweak, that sounds better). And the knee surgery in the NBA cost Wayne his make-it-or-break-it third preseason after missing most of his second pro season, whether or not you think that was relevant in his not landing another position after being traded and cut. Must have been a coincidence for Simien, this “tweener” taken in the first round that Pat Riley must have thought could fit in somewhere–but only until he could not physically get on the court consistently.
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@JayHawkFanToo what sport and which juco did u play for? Jc?
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Would you say that Davonte is injury prone?..and yet he played most of his junior season while cramping up which is a considerably more debilitating condition that a groin tweak. If you have a serious injury you just don’t play 35 of 36 games while averaging 33 mpg…it just does not happen.
As far as the draft, many expected Simien to go lottery and instead fell all the way to 29 with many teams passing on him because his iffy upside and Miami hoped he would develop but his game just did not fit the NBA. If his injuries were that serious he would have retired at that point but played another 3 year for a second division Spanish team. Players with top potential are selected and kept despite injuries, see Embiid and Noel and when the injuries are severe players retire, see Oden or Ming.
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Groin is much worse, you have to stay completely off it for a period of time for it to get better. Cramps come and go. He handled them well.
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I agree if it is a serious or major groin injury but a groin tweak is a much less painful albeit constant inconvenience while cramps are extremely painful and will actually prevent you from even standing up until the trainer manages to massage them away. This is why Wayne was able to play 35 of 36 games that season and averaged 33 mpg.
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I think Devonte’s cramps probably helped our coaches learn how to deal with cramp prevention. That’s all Devonte needed and he’ll have that at the next level.
I’m not sure what all is involved in a cramp prevention protocol… I think it’s tweaked to each player. They keep a journal on all their habits to see if they can find aspects of their lifestyles to change. There are a few posters in here with a med background and can probably address this better than me.
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I wonder is we could see Mitch play at the 3 spot this next season. If he is able to work on ball handling and shooting, I be shocked to not see it at some point.
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I actually would be more surprised if he didn’t play. If he was under the impression that he was not going to play I would think he would have left school and gone to Europe or somewhere else to play.
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@Woodrow If DeSousa plays, then the NCAA indictment is without merit because the premise of the indictment is fraud — defrauding the university because the player would not be eligible because of the payment. Makes me wonder …
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