Gosh darn that Jay for getting mystery 1-seeds, easy paths to rings and not being able to win his own mid major conference!
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Not by the definitions of winning your conference to get a one seed, or by getting a difficult path to the final four. But then you know that and are being reductive, because it is easier than changing the way you think. I’m okay with that!
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There wasn’t really a stacked region. They were pretty balanced. There is no rule that says you have to win your conference. Xavier and Villanova were both very good teams. Villanova was better despite not winning their conference. Winning the conference doesn’t make one team better than another.
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@BShark They beat the top 3 Big XII teams by double digits, pretty impressive.
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@jaybate-1.0 They clearly would have won our conference.
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@kcmatt
I don’t follow you there. That appears a logical disconnect. They couldn’t even win their own mid major conference. Why would they have won a Power Conference? If Michigan has a good shooting night, UM is likely to beat them. Really, they are are a nearly unbeatable team at their average 3pt% or better, when the opposing team takes 10 less treys. But they lost 4 trough games, couldn’t win their mid major conference, and teams haven’t tried to shoot 5-10 more treys than Nova. Here’s hoping UM roughs them up big time, as far out as they want to range on defense, and shoots 5-10 more treys. Couple that with Nova shooting 37% for the game and its party time in Ann Arbor!
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Villanova was one of the best teams in the country last season too. They lost early in the tournament but that doesn’t change the fact that they were one of the 5 best teams.
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It does mean that. They have the easy seeding and the refs and they go out early and it means they were overrated. Simple.
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There really was an easy region: Villanova’s.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
It does mean that. They have the easy seeding and the refs and they go out early and it means they were overrated. Simple.
Man, those KU teams that lost early in the tournament under Self must have been really overrated. Especially the 2010 team.
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Registering strong disagreement is not persuasive, of course.
The regions 1 seed couldn’t win a mid major conference.
The region produced TTech for Nova to play before KU.
KU played Duke before Nova.
Who would you rather play before playing Nova: Texas Tech, or Duke?
I don’t even know why TTech made the tournament after the way it fell apart, as I predicted it would. Maybe the NCAA just wanted some or all canon fodder for Nova’s regional?
Year after year we witness apparent asymmetric seeding of certain Nike EST teams that appear to enable such teams to advance through less resistance, less depletion of energy and less wear and tear.
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Texas Tech was a top 10 team.
KU got softer 4/5 seeds in comparison to Villanova by the numbers.
Purdue, a top 5 team was Villanova’s 2 seed. It’s not their fault that Purdue couldn’t beat Tech.
You are creating a narrative that does not exist. Bringing up facts like these don’t matter though, because you want to live in a fantasy world where KU is playing against all odds. It’s just not the truth.
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Why do you insist in calling the Big a East a mid major conference? The Power 5 or major conference moniker is driven and applies primarily to football but when it comes to basketball, the Big East has been and still is a MAJOR basketball conference any way you look at it
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We’ve had MANY 1 seeds and “supposedly” easy paths that didn’t work out.
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BigBad said:
We’ve had MANY 1 seeds and “supposedly” easy paths that didn’t work out.
So has Nova. In the last 5 years Nova has won the tournament twice and lost to 8/9 seeds 3 times. The tournament is just crazy.
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Personally, I don’t think there is an easy path. Villanova is on a helleva run @jaybate-1-0 are you saying a mid major has won the title 2 of 3 years? I don’t consider the Big east or American to be mid majors, neither do most folks. I think both KU’s and Nova’s paths to the FF were very even in terms of difficulty. I’m just glad Nova was given the 1 seed they earned so someone like us in 2016 didn’t have to face a top 5 team to get to the FF.
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@kjayhawks Ole batey is just trying to process Jay Wright now nationally surpassing Bill. Truth is he has always been a better xs and os guy.
Bill has been stubborn, but is a great recruiter and has shown flexibility lately.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Why do you insist in calling the Big a East a mid major conference? The Power 5 or major conference moniker is driven and applies primarily to football but when it comes to basketball, the Big East has been and still is a MAJOR basketball conference any way you look at it
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
(Let me see, if I can re-learn your apparent rhetorical style and respond in your own apparently preferred mode, to help you understand my danged silly old opining. Its been awhile. I wish one of the search engines would get a rhetorical style translator algorithm, so I didn’t have to go to the trouble of re-learning your style.)
(Ah, yes, its coming back now…)
@JayhawkFanToo, why do you insist in calling The “BIG” EAST a major, much less a power conference?The Power 5 applies as much to basketball as to football, but when it comes to basketball the Big East was once many years ago a strong basketball conference though NEVER categorized as a POWER conference any way you look at it.
(By George, I think its coming back to me little by little.)
(Let me continue in lovingly and respectfully spoofing apparent @JayHawkFanToo style…)
You appear not to watch much basketball, @JayHawkFanToo. You appear not to listen to much sports on the radio. You appear not to listen to much short wave radio chatter about basketball. You appear not to have an old fashioned dish and so appear not to listen to too many raw (unedited) feeds of sports broadcasters. You appear not to read the internet much. You appear not to subscribe to spoken editions of any of the mainstream sports magazines for the hearing impaired. You appear not to read smoke signals, or listen to drums delivering the daily rankings of the THE MID MAJOR EAST. You appear not to scan SETTI telemetry about possible alien commentary about the ranking of the Big East. And that is any way you look at it, too.
(HOWLING!)
(SUMMARY…)
(Oh, gosh, no, @JayhawkFanToo, I can’t recognize any way you look at it, but as usual IMHO THE “BIG” EAST ought to be ranked as a mid major conference in hoops comparable to the MVC. Replace Wichita State of a few years back with Nova of today, and 2016, and “any way you look at it” its a mid major conference despite you apparently insisting to the contrary.)
(Note: all kidding around in this post. No malice.)
(As always I defend your privilege to think, see and say it as you wish.)
(Note: consensus cracking, smears, and attack graphics may be inserted after Buffer below.)
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BigBad said:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/comparing-2015-villanova-fan-tweets-jay-wright-2018/
Sounds about right. Thanks for posting this.
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Great link which goes to show most fan bases are alike and most of the time equally lacking in knowledge.
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@jaybate-1.0 They beat TT and W VA by double digits in their region. These two teams were in top 3 Big 12 conference which was considered as toughest conference in CBB this year. Look at their margin of victory in every tournament game, I cannot recall such a dominating performance. One must give them due credit.
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SMH. Gee Wally, all that for nothing…
NCAA Basketball Titles by conference in this century
- ACC - 7 (3 different teams)
- Big East - 6 (3 different teams)
- SEC - 3 ( 2 different teams)
- Big 12 -1
- AAC - 1
- PAC - 0
- Big 10 - 0
You were saying? Equivalent to the Missouri Valley Conference? Are you off your meds or perhaps trying new meds of the recreational kind?
The Big East has more titles than all the other conferences combined not including the ACC.
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I would like to give them due credit, because they are a daring, competitive, talented and innovative bunch with the pieces of a champion and Jay did a great job of coaching them, but…
The apparently aymmetric tourney seeding and whistle dynamics don’t really allow them to prove it. They deserved a tournament lacking those dynamics to show they could do what they did on an apparently level playing field. But either way I can admire them AND believe we can’t know what they might have done on a level playing field.
Try to remember what Self said post game. He said it as gently as he could and he tried to say it so he did not sound like a sore looser, but he usually tries to tell the truth when it won’t hurt his team strategically in up coming games, or in recruiting. He said that he really felt that KU was finally exposed; that KU had been playing over its head, and by implication masking its missing pieces for most of the season. And his further implication was that KU had gotten lucky both with facing opponents in conference that were so limited themselves that they could not expose KU’s weaknesses, and that it was some luck that Duke had shot 24% against them, or they wouldn’t have made the Final Four. I admired Self for being both candid and for not using it as an excuse. It was just a fact. The KU team got a lot out of a little and got a good run of breaks and then ran into a team with all the pieces on a good shooting day, and, while he may not have expected to be blown out quite so badly, he really wasn’t surprised at Jay Wright having both the insight and tools to exploit the flaws in his team of overachievers trying to compensate for some big missing pieces.
Back to Nova.
Nova played a TTech team with a green coach that the wheels had come off from after KU beat and exposed them the second time.
Nova played a Huggins team with little trey game that KU, a team with big holes, beat twice.
Nova played a KU team with big holes.
Nova played a Michigan team with practically no trey game.
These opponents were ideally suited for Nova to not only beat, but to blow out.
I don’t even recall the cupcakes they played in the first weekend.
But there is more.
I was so wrapped up in the shooting of Nova against KU that I really didn’t watch their defense. So: I focused closely on Nova’s defense vs. Michigan. They cheat more on defense than any team, since Ben Howland’s UCLA team brought the Hack’n’Slap to the Final Four that season UCLA beat KU with the hack’n’slap.
Nova hooks on defense more often and more subtlety than any other team I have ever witnessed. They were fabulously well drilled on hooking. They hooked Michigan on almost every possession with multiple players doing it simultaneously; this is exactly the same approach as Howland’s hack’n’slap, or Huggins’ muscling everywhere all the time for stretches. The refs simply cannot call it all even if they want to. But what made the hooking so effective for Nova was that the refs were apparently going to no call the hooking whether they did it a little, or a lot. When a team is allowed to muscle, or hack’n’slap, or hook anywhere all the time, you simply cannot tell how good their defense really is. I am confident they were doing something comparable to KU also, though I have not gone back to look.
So: I think Nova is a marvelous team.
I think Jay is a terrific coach that has taken the game to a new offensive era.
But because of the apparent asymmetries I cannot tell exactly how good they were.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
SMH. Gee Wally, all that for nothing…
NCAA Basketball Titles by conference in this century
- ACC - 7 (3 different teams)
- Big East - 6 (3 different teams)
- SEC - 3 ( 2 different teams)
- Big 12 -1
- AAC - 1
- PAC - 0
- Big 10 - 0
You were saying? Equivalent to the Missouri Valley Conference? Are you off your meds or perhaps trying new meds of the recreational kind?
The Big East has more titles than all the other conferences combined not including the ACC.
Ooh, I love it when “I get to you.”
It makes me want to run some “attack graphics.”
Howling!
Note I never said they weren’t once a great basketball conference.
Howling!
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@jaybate-1.0 Ahhhhhh dripping with sarcasm, I love it!!
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@jaybate-1.0 You may not be able to tell how good they are based on “apparent asymmetries” but I expect that most folks that watch a lot of basketball would say pretty damn good. Per most metrics, they had one of the most efficient offenses in years. They rolled through this tournament winning by double digits. They b****-slapped the 3 best teams in the B12, supposedly the toughest conference in the land. But, maybe this wasn’t the toughest row to hoe on the way to the title. But, it’s not a one time thing, is it? Two years ago they beat 5! ranked teams to win the title, including 4 in the top 10 (of course, our beloved Jayhawks along the way). Only 2 of those games were close. Not sure if they got the benefit of the same “asymmetries” that time? With two titles and a 136 wins over the past four years, Wright and Villanova have had a historically good run…
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Note I never said they weren’t once a great basketball conference.
Once? The Big East had 2 #1 seed this tournament and won 2 titles in the last 3 years, can any other conference claim this?
More importantly, are you able to have an adult discussion or will you continue to act like a petulant child?
I refer you to the last 2 lines of the first post by @approxinfinity
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Villanova was, for the better part of the season, the best team in the country. They lost the Big East this season even though they swept Xavier. Villanova lost four conference games, Xavier lost three, twice to Nova, and once to Providence. If Villanova doesn’t drop that odd St. John’s game when St. John’s was briefly the hottest team in the country, they win their conference.
Not only did Nova beat Xavier twice, they beat them twice by double digits, winning by 16 in Cincinnati and by 24 in Philly. Villanova was pretty clearly the better team compared to Xavier, even though Xavier also had a great season.
I think the real point in Nova’s favor as the best team in the country is this - of their 36 wins, just six did not come by double figures. Nova not only won 36 games, they won most in clearly dominant fashion. There’s really no question to me that Villanova was the best team in the country, and I don’t think putting them in a different region would have changed that.
They dominated all season. They dominated in March. They dominated the title game. Hats off to them.
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They are as good as any Nike EST team that has had the apparent benefits of apparent seeding and whistle asymmetry.
But this is exactly why I call it the March Carney in recent years.
Apparently legal entertainment values have in recent years appeared to deny us a sufficiently level playing court to call it a tournament with a straight face. Capice?
They appear as good as any other NIKE-EST champion that has performed in a recent Carney.
I don’t see why that grinds aliases so much.
Its just how things apparently have been and remain.
FWIW, we might have a glimmer of hope–I know, call me a bleeding heart conspiracy theorist–of getting a level playing field, if the reputedly broadening FBI investigation triggers a clean up of the game, if it in fact were to actually need one.
Alas, last I had read, the reputed investigation has so far only identified an adidas exec as being allegedly involved in improper recruiting conduct, even though there were a clump of reports apparently from outside the FBI that the FBI investigation might have broadened. Hmmm. As a layman fan, that still doesn’t give me great expectations the FBI will take on legacies addressed so long ago by the late Murray Sperber in 1990’s “College Sports, Inc.,” and by Dan Wetzel and Don Yaeger in 2000’s "Sole Influence. Whew those books were written a long time a go now. I wonder if the statute of limitations have run out on that stuff? Some times I really wish I had gone to law school just so I could understand a leeeeeeeeeeeetle bit of what’s going on in NCAA D1. Still kind of confused about Easygate down at UNC fer one exemplo.
Oh, well, we made it through another season and KU acquitted itself mighty fine overall–better than I had hoped for a good part of the season. And our guys showed once again that amazing things happen inside the crimson and blue uniforms still!
And in the now lengthening apparent Carney era, we have a successor to those three recent paragons of college basketball virtue: Ten Stack State, Nine-Stack-and-a-Cloud-of-Jewelry State, and Easygate State. Alas Apparent Embargo State, er, KU, has not been in their class lately, relegated as we have been to competing for lowly conference titles in a lowly Power Conference–conference titles I might add that turn out not to even be necessary for a one seed in a cupcake regional. In the places of the apparently asymmetrically Big Three, we now have–drum rolls please–Villanova.
Is this progress, or what?
Investigations? We don’t need no stinking investigations!
And as per usual, conspiracy theories are for suckers.
Rock Chalk!
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justanotherfan said:
They dominated all season. They dominated in March. They dominated the title game. Hats off to them.
Um, they didn’t win their mid major conference.
Interesting sense of dominance you have.
When Manning and KU did that sort of thing back in 1988, they were called Danny and the Miracles.
P.S.: I beat you to hats off to them, too, right?
Rock Chalk!!
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And Buffer 1
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And Buffer 2
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Lulufulu said:
@jaybate-1.0 Ahhhhhh dripping with sarcasm, I love it!!
I think of it as playfulness with love for a fellow Jayhawk fan-zoid.
What we all post about here is entirely recreational and well meaning–things to distract us from an apparently looming WMD fight for control of those Trans Eurasian Super Corridors that Russia and China have built and are expanding iwithout the western central banking owners having financial control of them. Here is to living to see another apparent Carney next March and April. We should be so lucky.
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Isn’t it better to have lost to clearly the best team in the land vs a bunch a scrubs? I know which narrative I’d prefer.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
justanotherfan said:
They dominated all season. They dominated in March. They dominated the title game. Hats off to them.
Um, they didn’t win their mid major conference.
Interesting sense of dominance you have.
When Manning and KU did that sort of thing back in 1988, they were called Danny and the Miracles.
P.S.: I beat you to hats off to them, too, right?
Rock Chalk!!
Not remotely comparable. 11 loss KU team vs a 4 loss Nova team that was great all year.
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justanotherfan said:
Villanova was, for the better part of the season, the best team in the country. They lost the Big East this season even though they swept Xavier. Villanova lost four conference games, Xavier lost three, twice to Nova, and once to Providence. If Villanova doesn’t drop that odd St. John’s game when St. John’s was briefly the hottest team in the country, they win their conference.
Not only did Nova beat Xavier twice, they beat them twice by double digits, winning by 16 in Cincinnati and by 24 in Philly. Villanova was pretty clearly the better team compared to Xavier, even though Xavier also had a great season.
I think the real point in Nova’s favor as the best team in the country is this - of their 36 wins, just six did not come by double figures. Nova not only won 36 games, they won most in clearly dominant fashion. There’s really no question to me that Villanova was the best team in the country, and I don’t think putting them in a different region would have changed that.
They dominated all season. They dominated in March. They dominated the title game. Hats off to them.
Jaybate won’t let these facts get in the way of his narrative.
