KU-OU: Self runs some double high post early
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Graham said they didn’t warm-up today. Is that typical??
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@CRH107 they didn’t warm up as they normally do
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Ahhh…Thank you @Crimsonorblue22
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We should play all our home games at Bramlage or the WVU Coliseum, at least we have a 100% win percentage there this year.
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@betterfireE KU’s perimeter defense wasn’t horrible for the most part today. OSU just flat out made a lot of tough shots. Nothing you can do when a team is hitting 3’s with hands in their faces. The defensive rebounding and KU’s ice cold shooting early on is what doomed them more than anything else.
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Seems as though we rarely see all 5 starters fully engaged at any one juncture. Vick the SpiderMan, now a junior, has not yet developed steady handles to dribble into traffic. Sneaky quick, he is polar opposite to Frank Mason and Josh Jackson in steel determination and toughness. Maybe an hour per week in a boxing ring might help toughen him to develop purposeful intent?
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@REHawk Humph, REHawk. A day later now, and no response to your post. I presume that fella posters must think that LaGerald is already tough enough, probably just on a month long unlucky streak. Coaching staff must feel that Vick can persevere and work his way through such malaise. A la Malik. Cundiff will have to wait for some guard’s injury to get meaningful replacement minutes of action. Fans must absorb the truth, either that Vick does exciting positive stuff in practice, or that Cundiff is just not yet ready…or competent.
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@REHawk I have no answer! I’d sit him
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Since a good conference opener against Texas, Vick has avg. 7.2 pts, 3.7 rebounds, 1.2 assists, and 1.8 turnovers a game. Basically a big nothing.
The best I can come up with is girlfriend issues to explain why a guy drops off so much.
Here’s a flyer … he took 55 shots in a three game stretch vs. Syracuse, Washington, and ASU. He scored 20, 28, 25. Pretty good efficiency shooting. But I wonder if with KU losing 2 of those 3 (losing the last 2) if there was some conversation about his scoring not leading to wins. The next game he only shot 9 times. I don’t know. Grasping for straws here.
Truly a surprise to me. I was very much on the Vick bandwagon, thinking he might lead us in scoring this season. The flip in the calendar year has been like night and day.
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@REHawk A month long “unlucky” streak??? Not sure how you think luck factors in? As HEM notes, he’s averaged just 7ppg over the last 9 games. And, he hasn’t really been contributing much elsewhere. It does raise the question again re Cunliffe. You say he isn’t ready or competent. He has some size and athleticism. He averaged 10ppg at ASU as a freshmen. He’s been in our system for a year+. He’s already demonstrated he can play at the D-1 level. We recruited him. I think it may be an attitude problem or something about his game that sticks in Self’s craw. He has shown a quick trigger and Self has yanked him immediately after quick shots or after mistakes. Clearly has a very short or no leash. But, given Vick’s disappearing act, I would think it worth a shot to give Cunliffe some court time, if just to send the signal that if one of the erstwhile starters doesn’t have their head in the game, they can expect bench time…
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@DCHawker why not Marcus?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Doesn’t Marcus get a lot more time to prove himself than Cunliffe?
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@wissox I think he’s proven himself, he’s been doing better lately.
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@wissox I saw enough of Cunliffe
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@Crimsonorblue22 I thought you were saying that Garrett deserves more time to prove himself with your “why not Marcus” comment. I agree, he holds his own, but I wouldn’t mind seeing some more Cunliffe.
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A couple of months ago I was very excited KU would be adding 3 top 40 players that would provide the badly needed depth. Preston would certainly be a starter, Cunliffe would provide 10 minutes a game and De Sousa would be a long term project that might contribute towards the end of the season.
Fast forward 2 months and Preston, the one who would be the biggest contributor is gone without playing a game, Cunliffe has underwhelmed and De Sousa is greener than I would have hoped given his experience with his national team and the game is still playing way too fast for him. In short, the 3 men addition that wold have pushed KU over the top has turned into a nothing burger.
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@HighEliteMajor I don’t believe your grasping for straws at all. The girlfriend thing we really have no idea on unless he makes the news again. Given his past nothing should surprise us there. Maybe its a family issue he’s not discussing? Those things can tend to weigh on someone if they have a close family member dealing with a serious issue.
Not even “talks with Self” are making a difference- like they did with Newman
The 2nd part, the Cuse/Wash/ASU games I can definitely see this being the actual issue. I remember the Washington game he was camped in the middle of that zone and took what seemed to be 45 shots to get 28 points. Washington seemed happy letting him take shots all night (instead of giving up 3’s) because they were baskets that kept KU in the game, not changing the momentum.
With Svi becoming option #1, Graham & Doke 2A & 2B and even Newman has taken the next scoring option after that. So when we see the regular starters Vick is option 5 at that point. Can’t imagine he saw that as his place in the “pecking order” of shots coming into the season or even after his strong non-conference play. When Vick does have scoring opportunities he’s been wildly inconsistent with efficiency. Which I tie back to your point that KU was losing games based on his higher usage once they started to play better teams. Even with lower usage lately his efficiency has fallen off a cliff. We notice this easily because his shot attempts are limited and he’s not converting.
Is it just me or did Vick change his perimeter shot up? Why the set shot now? It doesn’t look natural to him anymore. He hit a few jumpers where he rose up high Saturday that looked really smooth and I seem to remember him being pretty darn good earlier in the season pulling up off the dribble and rising up for a 3. Part of his struggles shooting could simply be he’s not getting enough legs into the shot.
I still think his defense has been the biggest disappointment since the Texas game. He should be a guy that can make athletic plays for this team and he’s just blending. Self has mentioned this so many times that he’s wanted Vick to be his go-to guy but we’ve seen Marcus actually be that guy albeit in a rotation role now. Lagerald is a head-scratcher this season
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@BeddieKU23 Right, just something impacting him mentally. Whatever it is. Your observation on the leg thing and the change in his shot is interesting, something really worth paying attention to.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 Right, just something impacting him mentally. Whatever it is. Your observation on the leg thing and the change in his shot is interesting, something really worth paying attention to.
The mental aspect could be a lot of things as well. A few we’ve mentioned - like a GF issue again or family? What if the mental impact is actually with the team. Obviously not all players can sustain the hot start that Vick had. We figured his numbers would adjust down a bit but the downturn in almost every statistic and the defensive lapses we are seeing from him is alarming. Could he be deferring to other options that have established themselves? Is he upset with his role? Is he being tasked with being something he’s not capable of being right now?
I’ve been a big Vick fan but what if he’s not as good as we think he is. Maybe we placed too high of expectations on him. Maybe all the NBA talk that was starting to surround him got to his head. You’d hate to think that anyone would be “coasting” at this point towards the end of the season. We keep waiting for him to play himself out of this funk but its been over a month. I might have grasped at straws here on a few points but we know Vick is vital to this teams game to game success. We just have too many weaknesses to not have all 5 starters producing. It is interesting that his minutes continue to stay the same despite the struggles. Self certainly isn’t ready to give up on him or go other option(s) which could mean they think he’s going to figure this out. We need him to that’s for sure
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@BeddieKU23 Man, I really DO think he’s as good as we think he is. The word “coasting” is concerning. We don’t know him. Don’t know his motivations. Logic would say that coasting would cause a large drop in his NBA prospects. But logic isn’t always the determining factor.
At this point, I would try the Newman treatment. Start Garrett.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 Man, I really DO think he’s as good as we think he is. The word “coasting” is concerning. We don’t know him. Don’t know his motivations. Logic would say that coasting would cause a large drop in his NBA prospects. But logic isn’t always the determining factor.
At this point, I would try the Newman treatment. Start Garrett.
I do think he’s that good, only makes his play more frustrating. I was just throwing it out there in-case there’s something we’re missing.
I don’t personally believe he’s coasting. I believe he’s a good teammate and his quiet demeanor and personality can make it easy to assume things that could be far from the truth. If he was looking past this year towards the next level I think his coach would be quick to put an end to it
Didn’t Self already try the bench treatment with Vick? I think that lasted only 1 game.
This team needs more from him.
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It looks to me like a mental issue since he does not appear to have an injury. Coach Self appears to still have faith in him and he is getting playing time.
Coasting at this time would have dire consequences, unless he is planning on coming back, which is always a possibility. In the last few weeks he has played himself out of the first round and continued below average play will push him out of the draft altogether, not something any player would want even if planning on coming back.
KU needs him playing at a high level for the team to do well; obviously he is not the most important player on the team but a very key part of it; his level of play in the upcoming weeks might determine how well the team does and how far it advances.
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All I can say is welcome back to the 2018-19 Jayhawks Mr. Vick!
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JayHawkFanToo said:
KU needs him playing at a high level for the team to do well; obviously he is not the most important player on the team but a very key part of it; his level of play in the upcoming weeks might determine how well the team does and how far it advances.
In our 3 conference losses Vick has 11 points in 98 minutes. Horrid.
10 points a game from him would put less pressure on others to compensate for what he’s not giving this team. Until Vick is playing to his ability this team is in a tough situation.
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Well, now Coach announces that Vick will be replaced by Lightfoot in the starting lineup. A very loud message to Vick: Either get yourself motivated this season or consider the fact that you might be done as a starter at Kansas. Coach also not pleased with Doke’s poor rebounding and overall effort. At this stage of the season these are some major issues that we have not seen heretofore with Bill Self’s starters. Earlier, it appeared that Coach had to go to the mattresses in a battle with Malik Newman about effort and team play. An unusual season, for certain.
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@wissox That seems reasonable, but I think a transfer is also a distinct risk here. Self’s tone of voice was one of being a touch disgusted, befuddled, and upset all in one.
The young man needs to listen to the coach.
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@HighEliteMajor I had that thought as well. Hopefully he doesn’t, I think he can contribute a lot to our team next year.
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We all expect the transfer players to come in and improve to a much larger extent than what we have seen. It’s not bad logic, they’ve already played a year, they get one year to sit and learn at KU, where they can go at their own learning curve, and that comes with two summers of basketball and Hudy-izing. Problem is that putting on a ku uniform has not magically translated to improvement and great play. I think we expected more from Cunliffe and more from Malik (at least to start the season), but they haven’t necessarily broken out for Kansas in their junior campaigns. Expectations will be VERY high for the Lawson’s next year, I hope they won’t start right where they left off at Memphis.
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@wissox depends on what the problem is
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Unless he is graduating and can do a graduate transfer, he would have to sit one year to play one year which places him 2 years away from the NBA. Under the current circumstances I just don’t see him transferring when he can come back to a team that will have serious Final Four potential.
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@JayHawkFanToo My concern is here that Vick may be wading into territory that makes Self question whether he really wants Vick back. Further, if Vick is struggling with Self, doing things Self’s way, it’s a losing proposition for him next season. Not the best NBA resume to not be a starter.
There are many paths of speculation as to “why” with Vick. Whatever it is, Self’s tone when discussing him was pretty insightful.
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If he is at odds with Coach Self and does not want to come back, his best option is the G League or overseas. I really believe a transfer is out of the question…but I could be wrong.
