KU "SOFT BALL" Beats ISU by 5 in Lawrence; Prohm and Everyone Else Clueless How It Works...or What It EVEN Is!!!
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The B12 is a fight, and KU has to amp it up every game period. No other choice, since everyone can beat everyone else on any given night.
Now, are Preston and de Sousa rebounders? I really don’t know that much about them.
Before the NCAA tourney last year, HEM posted an interesting stat about defensive ranking (I forgot the exact parameters of the stat) and no team ever got to the final four ( or winning the tourney I forgot)lower than a certain number, and KU was below that number.
What’s going to be our rebounding disparity stats before the tourney? Yikes
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You seem on the right track, now that I have had some time to think.
I often argue this point, but usually in the past it has not made them look this soft.
Some kind of Energy Management might be involved and it probably is triggering a softer looking style of play than we are used to, because of the heavy focus on energy managing Doke. Self has often rested his point guard on the floor by moving him to wing, and we are seeing some of that for sure. But there is something more going on half to 2/3s of a game: resting Doke. This KU Team needs as many minutes of Doke as possible. Self seems to be following the old rule Allen and Harp and others taught Wilt. Half of Wilt is better than no Wilt. Don’t foul out, even if it means long stretches of not going all out.
Walking up court, weaving so Doke rests till the shot, shooting early in the clock, and three point shooting all over a 40 minute game cut energy expenditure on offense, rest and protect Doke, raise the POINTS PER OFFENSIVE MINUTE (fewer minutes are spent working for a shot, few ball reversals, minimal in out, etc.), and points per possession (shooting more treys does that), and shift more energy expenditure to defense. And on defense there are intensity levels they go only the last ten, and not even then if they don’t have to. Avoid injuries and exhaustion despite playing starters big minutes. Self has to conserve every drop of gas in this team’s tank.
As a result, he is picking strategies that require less gas.
Makes sense, Jethro. Thx 4 the reminder.
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@Bosthawk HEM may have done so, as well, but below is what I had posted before the tourney last year about defensive metrics applicable to last year’s team and it’s historical context in terms of previous NC rankings: To answer your question, is this the worst defensive team under Self, the answer is YES, at least as measured by KenPom defensive efficiency ratings - and it’s not really close. In 10 of the last 12 years prior to this one, KU has had a top 10 ranked defense; 6 times in the top 5. The two lowest ranked years were '09 at #12 and '14 at 22. Right now we’re ranked 30th in DER. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, no team has ever won a national championship with that low a defensive ranking. Now, those rankings are post tournament, so perhaps we will tighten up on the defensive end - although we’ve actually regressed on the metrics over the past few games.
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Thanks for the telling statistical info… again, yikes
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Went and looked at Kenpom to freshen up on that stat. I did the last 5 years.
17- UNC - D #11, runner-up Gonzaga #1
16- Nova- D #5, runner-up UNC # 21
15- Duke- D #11, runner-up Wisconsin #35
14- Uconn-D #10, runner-up Kentucky #32
13- Louisville- D #1, runner-up Michigan #37
12- Kentucky- D #7, runner-up KU #3
Teams can make the finals with D Efficiency ratings outside the Top 20 but they don’t win. If you think KU has problems check out Duke at #91. They were over 100 until they got the Duke Bump for giving up 52 to Pitt, the worst P5 team in the country
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@Bosthawk - Good memory. Here is the link. https://kubuckets.com/topic/5506/poor-defense-appears-fatal-we-shall-overcome
On national champions and defensive efficiency, here’s a portion of that post from just before the tourney last season -
- Defensive Efficiency: If there is a big negative for KU’s chances of an NCAA title, it’s defensive efficiency. Kansas sits at 99th in defensive efficiency. Since Self has been the coach at KU, no team that has won the NCAA title has been worse than 74th. So we’re 25 spots away from that bottom-dweller position. Here is are the numbers for NCAA title winners for defensive efficiency, with Kansas shown for 2017.
-2004: UConn 6
-2005: UNC 19
-2006: Florida 19 (KU was 1)
-2007: Florida 16 (KU was 1)
-2008: Kansas 4
-2009: UNC 39
-2010: Duke 9
-2011: UConn 75
-2012: Kentucky 9
-2013: Louisville 3
-2014: UConn 19
-2015: Duke 63
-2016: Villanova 14
-2017: Kansas 99
- KenPom Defensive Efficiency: Using a different metric, KenPom’s efficiency ratings, the news doesn’t get any better. No NCAA title winner since 2004 has been worse than 21 in at the KenPom ratings regarding defensive efficiency. KU is now at 30.
-2004: UConn 5
-2005: UNC 7
-2006: Florida 7
-2007: Florida 15
-2008: Kansas 1
-2009: UNC 21
-2010: Duke 5
-2011: UConn 15
-2012: Kentucky 8
-2013: Louisville 1
-2014: UConn 10
-2015: Duke 12
-2016: Villanova 5
-2017: Kansas 30
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@HighEliteMajor I’m unencumbered with an agenda that is designed to run down the team and the coach, so it allows me to see things differently than you.
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Wow. Lol. Now that made me laugh. Some folks just need to tell you it’s pitch black outside even while squinting in the sun…
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@KUSTEVE You are clearly trying to create personal conflict when there is none. Perhaps you have a difficult time when your thought process is challenged. Perhaps you view yourself as the pristine defender of KU basketball and Bill Self. Perhaps you just have an issue with me. All of which is fine. But whatever it is, it just comes off as petty – particularly when your reply is for no other purpose that to create confrontation.
I am interested, if you actually have facts … point out to me where I have run down the team or the coach. I understand that I won’t fit your little tunnel of acceptability, but I am open to understanding if I’ve acted irrationally.
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It’s not an attack on the team it’s posting facts. Fact is KU hasn’t been good defensively for awhile now which hurts your chances to win a title. I am hopeful that next year will be a return to stalwart defense but it will definitely take time due to so many new players.
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@HighEliteMajor I think we’d both be better served if you would simply skip my posts, and I will be glad to skip all of yours. I think what you are speaks so loudly, I can’t hear what you’re trying to sell.
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@KUSTEVE Sorry, no deal. Free … your … mind.
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KUSTEVE said:
@HighEliteMajor I think we’d both be better served if you would simply skip my posts, and I will be glad to skip all of yours. I think what you are speaks so loudly, I can’t hear what you’re trying to sell.
Now buddy, let me say as a person who has plenty of umm let’s say intense conversation with some on here, let me say it is pointless for you to try and tell someone to just ignore or skip your threads lol. - -You see for some they are in a train of thought that will just not do, why? - Cause they feel the need to have the last word/say.
I speak from experience and I’m sure you have seen some of these encounters I’ve even said I’m done and I’m moving on from this subject and yet they still feel the need to respond to that - -having some parting shot. You need kind of a thicker skin here sometimes which I just happen to have - on the other hand some don’t things get mis understood or just what others flat out don’t want to hear on things. - -I found out it’s best just to let things roll off your back l like water off a duck lol - It’s all good - -your my buddy there Jethro, really like reading your posts - -But who am I - I’m a black sheep/rebel here in the site some times I feel - -just rub people wrong , but hey lol it’s all good. keep your posting buddy enjoy seeing them. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Umm…topic change regarding IowaSt game: Franny Frashrilla is the BIGGEST Cyclone cheerleader there is, jesus…! He cant help spewing that stuff, basically whole 2nd half…
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@HighEliteMajor I didn’t want to take the time to explain my post. It’s pretty obvious you didn’t have a grasp of what my meaning was, but wanted to challenge it anyway. It’s not that i don’t mind battling with you, challenging you, or at times, flattening you, so to speak. It’s just so much work, though. To deal with a person whose end sum game is to literally find fault in everything the coach does, and many of the players could actually turn into almost a full time job. Nothing personal, but I don’t think you’re worth it. If you think Bill is some diabolical creature from the Black Lagoon, then knock yourself out. Hopefully, we’ll go on a winning streak, and it will shut you up for a while, as our winning has silenced you before in the past. Remember the litter of kittens you had when Landen was named starter over Diallo, then we win 17 games in a row? I guess you went into hiding and we thankfully didn’t hear from you for a long time. So, there is always hope. All we have to do is win, and it seems to shut you up. So, RCJHGU. Cya- wouldn’t want to be ya…
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Look, yall, USE the IowaSt game to explore what each of us various KU people see, when talking analytically. We arent all the same, we graduated with different majors from KU (or are just KU fans, its all ok!), and we may even think very differently politically. Thats simply what America is.
Me personally, I’m having trouble seeing the current lineup get as far as we could if we got the 2 bigs eligible, although we all know it will take 3-4 weeks for them to become real contributors. Im the maddest at the NCAA, giving KU the shaft again!!
Again, differring views ARE what make this board tick. We should be ok with that. Many of us have played or coached at whatever level, so we are going to have basketball opinions, right? And why be just cheerleaders, when the actual KU cheerleaders are far, far better looking, I’d guess…
At the end of the day, we all want a KU WIN…
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The ISU game did not change the current situation. This is a talented but fatally flawed roster as currently constructed. We don’t have the size to rebound, and we lack the depth to make up for it with frenzied pressure. We can’t win six games in March like that.
That’s not even a criticism, really. That’s just a statement of fact. This team, in its current form, can’t win a title. I don’t even know that it will get to the second weekend. There’s a recurring nightmare of KU giving up offensive board after offensive board as a team shoots just 30% from three, but gets enough boards to ultimately upend KU in the Round of 32. That’s in play, folks.
Maybe this squad gets hot and blazes the nets for a couple of games in the tournament, because we know when this team is on from three, there’s not a team in the country that can contain them, but even then, that probably pushes them to the Elite Eight at best. To win in March, you have to be able to win in a few different ways. This team can win one way right now. Unless Malik Newman suddenly shows that on any night he can drop 40 to prove that KU is never out of it, I don’t see this team getting deep without adding the size they so desperately need.
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A pause in the hostilities for something that actually IS important: We had 73 degrees here in SC, which is the one thing I like about living here. But 100 million people are facing ice and snow from this front that liquified the hills around Montecito. Prayers for the grieving.
OK, carry on (if you must).
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@mayjay Thoughtful post. Prayers for all. Crappy Global Warming! lol
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Wichita State up 32 with 15 minutes left and full court pressing, coming up with all kinds of steals. Not soft at all. Of course, you can do that with a deep bench. Of course, you can have a deep bench when you recruit legit dudes.
Alas, you still need top tier talent to win the 'ship.
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@chriz also playing a very crappy team and self wouldn’t be pressing a team up 30
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Maybe he should.
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@chriz if we r up 30?
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Don’t see why not. Like the announcers mentioned, they’re playing for the future at this point, not just the game. Guys still diving for balls.
They out-hustled us when they last played us and seems they generally have been doing so ever since.
Self is a great coach. Could easily make an argument that he’s better than Marshall (obviously). But he ain’t perfect.
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@chriz If they are playing for their future wouldn’t that be against players/teams full court pressure wouldn’t likely be very successful against?
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@chriz Self likes to mix it up, so it is not a great comparison. But WSU may be pressuring a bad team just to run up the score to try to look more impressive at selection time. Not very classy, though. I think they should still play D, obviously, but just like hard fouls in a runaway or using your last two timeouts in the last 30 secs, it is just not necessary.
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@mayjay I get it, and this could be a possibility. But isn’t it also possible that it’s Marshall’s way of teaching his kids to give it all, all the time? I don’t think it’s a D-bag move at all.
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@Gunman Bob Huggins says hi
Also, I’m assuming he doesn’t do it all the time, haven’t watched a lot of their games, but you gotta think he’s doing SOMETHING Self ain’t doing. His kids play their butts off.
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If Marshall’s up, he continues to press. Each to his own! If you watch a lot of ball, you will notice most coaches don’t do this. Playing hard is different than pressing a really bad team when you are up more than 20 pts. I agree they play hard, they are super deep too.
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Gregg Marshall said ECU asked WSU to wear its white uniforms since ECU was doing a black-out tonight. What did Marshall do? Had WSU wear yellow.
“If they’re going to have a black-out, we might as well be yellow so we can have a Shocker theme.”
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I remember when Pitino tried to press. Good times.
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@Crimsonorblue22 helluva guy!
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Smart…not Shak Smart, smart but smart, smart.
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KUSTEVE said:
@HighEliteMajor I didn’t want to take the time to explain my post. It’s pretty obvious you didn’t have a grasp of what my meaning was, but wanted to challenge it anyway. It’s not that i don’t mind battling with you, challenging you, or at times, flattening you, so to speak. It’s just so much work, though. To deal with a person whose end sum game is to literally find fault in everything the coach does, and many of the players could actually turn into almost a full time job. Nothing personal, but I don’t think you’re worth it. If you think Bill is some diabolical creature from the Black Lagoon, then knock yourself out. Hopefully, we’ll go on a winning streak, and it will shut you up for a while, as our winning has silenced you before in the past. Remember the litter of kittens you had when Landen was named starter over Diallo, then we win 17 games in a row? I guess you went into hiding and we thankfully didn’t hear from you for a long time. So, there is always hope. All we have to do is win, and it seems to shut you up. So, RCJHGU. Cya- wouldn’t want to be ya…
I begin this by suggesting we move forward and perhaps leave behind us an two year old irritations or grudges. I have none, but I think it’s best to do that.
On your older points of irritation (at least the one raised), I do think that you forget a large part of the discussion. In fact, in the thread below, I called for Self to stop with the silly “C5” concept and just pick his guy – just weeks before he did just that. I preferred Diallo and felt that Lucas’ limitations would end hurting this team. But I called for a decision to be made at the 5 spot before it was done, and that decision Self made led to a huge winning streak. https://kubuckets.com/topic/4036/time-for-self-to-kill-c5
I will also say that I supported the move to Lucas when it finally happened because I felt that Diallo’s playing time had been neglected to the extent we had lost significant development of Diallo.
It might be important to know, as well, that we did lose to Villanova. And that we got zero post scoring. Ochefu scored as many points as Lucas and Ellis combined. Diallo’s athleticism would have been a very nice option. We win that game if Diallo is put in a position to be game ready, and played. No doubt in my mind. Now, of course, we don’t know if we would have been in that position, in the elite 8, if the path had changed before it. I acknowledge that. Lucas was a stable player, and a rebounding machine.
You of course ignore a huge issue in my criticisms of Self. The fact that Self admitted he was wrong on the biggest discussion point probably ever on this site (and by consequence, myself, and others, were right). Do you remember my square peg, round hole discussions? Self forcing our team to be something it wasn’t. And all of the upset here that folks had that I had the temerity to question the god, Bill Self. And then he goes and admits he was wrong – after all of that. His words undercut all of the defenses offered for his unreasonable actions.
https://kubuckets.com/topic/3858/monumental-day-from-the-coach-himself
I felt compelled to respond. As we move forward, I’ll extend my hand to you, suggest we put grudges or whatever from the past behind us, and try to discuss hoops without that interfering. Perhaps that would work for you.
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chriz said:
@Gunman Bob Huggins says hi
Also, I’m assuming he doesn’t do it all the time, haven’t watched a lot of their games, but you gotta think he’s doing SOMETHING Self ain’t doing. His kids play their butts off.
Could be maybe just maybe Self isn’t doing it - -especially this year cause the lack of depth from the bench? -Don’t you think it would be kind of a dum ass move for Self to try and press all over the floor the entire game with the depth we got ? As if these kids aren’t playing to many minutes the way it is right now , little lone playing those kind of minutes and pressing all over. - We are right at the top of the league as it is causing turnovers /steals with the type of defense we run right now. -Every coach has their own way, I’m happy with the way Self TRIES maybe not as successful this year with the D we run. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
