So nothing yet?
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Here is an article by Andy Katz about KU and the possible play of Preston and De Souza on the NCAA website.
Here is another by Jeff Goodman about KU with comments from other coaches about KU’s issues.
By the way, DeSouza turned 19 in Octoberand Preston turned 20 also in October, not quite 17-18 year old kids.
I am positive you will obediently agree that the difference between 17-18 and 19 approaches absolute zero, when a player has never been through D1conditioning, does not know the plays, has not played a second with his teammates and is changing climates from subtropical Florida to Kansas in January.
I am waiting for submissive agreement!
HOWLING!!!
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dylans said:
@jaybate-1-0 If it helps any I believe Silvio is 19 year old. (Or just slightly younger than Svi as the announcers will likely point out).
I know u mean well, but it doesn’t help me much.
How many years will 19 year old Svi have been practicing and playing for KU on January 1?
How many years will 19 year old Silvio have been practicing and playing for KU on January 1?
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@JayHawkFanToo I used to have that sign too!
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@jaybate-1.0 None, but 19 is much closer to full grown adult than 17. That will help in this case. It won’t make him an instant success, but good God man we’re throwing Lightfoot out there. I want to see something resembling a grown man in the post again even if he isn’t quiet ready for prime time this year.
I’m almost to the point of giving up on this season anyways and his early addition and seasoning is going to be big for next season. I said almost - there is a faint glimmer of hope in these possible additions.
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@jaybate-1.0 I think Svi was brought in too young and it hurt his development.
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I read in a KC Star article that HCBS said the NCAA eligibility offices are closed next week and reopen Jan 3. If true, KU needs to hear by Friday or wait?
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Many appear discouraged about the lack of depth.
I am discouraged about the recruiting dynamics that lead us to this lack of depth.
I don’t expect next year’s seeming greater numbers to really solve our problems either, as so many do.
I will be very happy to get Preston and De Sousa this season.
Next season brings transfers and not one but the sudden, inexplicable anomaly of two 5-Star PGs. This all fills me with apprehension about the baggage that may hit the carousel next year.
As for this season, I am just advocating for tempered expectations regarding what the newbies second semester will actually enable.
All this team really needs from the newbies are subs, so our starters can play hard most of the game.
The newbies could supply that after a month or two.
More than that I doubt.
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@jaybate-1.0 I am discouraged about the recruiting dynamics that lead us to this lack of depth.
$$$
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I can’t recall for sure, but believe Bob Knight was quoted in “College Sports, Inc.” (1990) as indicating a top player back then cost a school willing to cheat about $150k in under the table cash over four years in those days. It’s hard to imagine what just a year of an OAD might cost some schools today!
But my deeper concern is: what if KU we’re willing to cheat and no amount of incentivewere enough to get more than the number of players KU has this season?
I want to believe there is no giving massive incentives to top players going on and that there no embargo of constraining KU recruiting. I want to believe everything is okay. But I don’t ever recall reading that the swamp in college basketball was drained between 1990 and present.
Swamps appear to be difficult things to drain, judging by the tiny numbers of persons actually being indicted and going to jail in Washington, Hollywood, New York, and Chicago, where it increasingly appears crime is rampant, but justice is scarcer than indictments for treason and pedophilia and missing trillions.
America increasingly appears a land where the price of tax relief for corporations and billionaires is swamp expansion, not swamp draining.
To paraphrase “Jerry Maguire…
Show me the convictions, Jerry!
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@jaybate-1.0 I still contend this years dearth of talent allows for next years influx of 5 stars. Wax and wane.
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How much was Ayton paid?!?
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@dylans Apparently enough.
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It’s not that hard to imagine. The FBI put some numbers out there and it’s pretty much widely known that Anthony Davis took 250k.
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@BShark And Billy sits…
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Next season brings transfers and not one but the sudden, inexplicable anomaly of two 5-Star PGs. This all fills me with apprehension about the baggage that may hit the carousel next year.
You are overthinking it. Grimes grew up a KU fan. Dotson wanted desperately to play for a blue blood program. Dotson was targeted and prioritized in his JR year by KU while UNC and Duke closed their heavy PG leans.
jaybate 1.0 said:
As for this season, I am just advocating for tempered expectations regarding what the newbies second semester will actually enable.
All this team really needs from the newbies are subs, so our starters can play hard most of the game.
The newbies could supply that after a month or two.
More than that I doubt.
I would agree with this. I don’t think Preston or Silvio save this team. Just letting the starters get a bit more rest and not having to play Mitch at the 5 could help a fair bit in the long run.
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I find again and again that I underthink it. I underestimate how elaborate the problems of KU and college basketball are. I suspected KU would be short handed again this season, but I never dreamed it would be this acute this soon.
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BShark said:
It’s not that hard to imagine. The FBI put some numbers out there and it’s pretty much widely known that Anthony Davis took 250k.
It’s actually very hard to imagine, because based on the last year of disclosures about corruption in Washington politics and missing monies we know that figures like those you mention are often gross understatements apparently made as effective limited hangouts.
The numbers could easily be 5, 10, or 100 times that. We have no clue really. We just know the numbers released officially tend to incompletely account for the actual magnitude of what is going on.
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@BShark Widely known? I like sources, nice credible verifiable sources. Anything less for a statement like this is speculative, possibly slanderous or libelous, rumor.
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dylans said:
@jaybate-1.0 I still contend this years dearth of talent allows for next years influx of 5 stars. Wax and wane.
This is what board rats have been believing for years now. Sooner or later this recurring appearance of asymmetry in recruiting and the annual constraints it imposes on KU’s pursuit of rings has to become recognized as something more than annual anomalies attributable to weather, girl friends and coaching charisma elsewhere.
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@mayjay Chicago Sun not only reported it, but then doubled down on it after the Davis’ threatened a lawsuit saying they had sources from 3 separate universities that claimed Davis Sr. asked them for anywhere from $125k to $150k.
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Woe is us because we don’t know if or when they’ll approved. Woe is us because the players coming in might take a while to get up to snuff. Let’s end the pity party. So our team will be at their best once we start playing for the Big Cheese - I can live with that.
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dylans said:
How much was Ayton paid?!?
I read somewhere that it was like 500,000 and that the money was already spent. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
Next season brings transfers and not one but the sudden, inexplicable anomaly of two 5-Star PGs. This all fills me with apprehension about the baggage that may hit the carousel next year.
You are overthinking it. Grimes grew up a KU fan. Dotson wanted desperately to play for a blue blood program. Dotson was targeted and prioritized in his JR year by KU while UNC and Duke closed their heavy PG leans.
jaybate 1.0 said:
As for this season, I am just advocating for tempered expectations regarding what the newbies second semester will actually enable.
All this team really needs from the newbies are subs, so our starters can play hard most of the game.
The newbies could supply that after a month or two.
More than that I doubt.
I would agree with this. I don’t think Preston or Silvio save this team. Just letting the starters get a bit more rest and not having to play Mitch at the 5 could help a fair bit in the long run.
if nothing else with Silvio Coach Self can use Him like he did our football walk on the other night. Coach ask him -can you do this? - He responded I don’t know any of it.
Self said then just set a high screen and then roll to the basket. Hell if nothing else Silvio can do that for the first couple of weeks when he is in till he picks up on the offense, do that and get some rebounds, - make some stick back buckets and he will be ok until he can pick up the offense gives us depth and 5 more fouls anyways for a bit. - I think he will be fine. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
Next season brings transfers and not one but the sudden, inexplicable anomaly of two 5-Star PGs. This all fills me with apprehension about the baggage that may hit the carousel next year.
You are overthinking it. Grimes grew up a KU fan. Dotson wanted desperately to play for a blue blood program. Dotson was targeted and prioritized in his JR year by KU while UNC and Duke closed their heavy PG leans.
jaybate 1.0 said:
As for this season, I am just advocating for tempered expectations regarding what the newbies second semester will actually enable.
All this team really needs from the newbies are subs, so our starters can play hard most of the game.
The newbies could supply that after a month or two.
More than that I doubt.
I would agree with this. I don’t think Preston or Silvio save this team. Just letting the starters get a bit more rest and not having to play Mitch at the 5 could help a fair bit in the long run.
if nothing else with Silvio Coach Self can use Him like he did our football walk on the other night. Coach ask him -can you do this? - He responded I don’t know any of it.
Self said then just set a high screen and then roll to the basket. Hell if nothing else Silvio can do that for the first couple of weeks when he is in till he picks up on the offense, do that and get some rebounds, - make some stick back buckets and he will be ok until he can pick up the offense gives us depth and 5 more fouls anyways for a bit. - I think he will be fine. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I WOULD AGREE WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE EXCEPT OVERTHINKING THIS STRUCTURALLY RECURRENT PROBLEM WITH KU’S RECRUITING.
WE HAVE OBVIOUSLY UNDERTHOUGHT THE PROBLEM, BECAUSE EACH TROUGH IS LOWER AND EACH PEAK IS NOT AS HIGH.
THINGS ARE NOT GETTING BETTER. SELF KEEPS HAVING LESS AND LESS LIKELIHOOD OF REACHING A FINAL FOUR BASED ON HIS TALENT IN COMPARISON TO THE TEAMS THAT STOP US. OREGON CLEARLY HELD MUA LAST SEASON. SINCE 2012 KU KEEPS RUNNING INTO TEAMS THAT HOLD SHARP MUA AND STOP KU COLD BEFORE THE FINAL FOUR.
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@jaybate-1.0 We have 6 new players coming in next year. One was the AAC POY. 19 ppg + 10 boards a game. His older little brother averaged 12.9 + 9 boards a game. Charlie started for a Power 5 team. The 3 we signed were all top 40. Overflow from an overabundance of talent in the market? Does it matter when you have a brilliant coach who is now licking his chops over the prospect of having so much talent on board? I think not. We are LOADED FOR BEAR NEXT YEAR. Keep the faith. Final Fours are coming.
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It looks good on paper going in, but so did the Alexander, Diallo and Preston years.
I am not unappreciative of how good we have had it. 82% to 84% is to die for.
But with the nearly unparalleled success we have enjoyed for nearly 30 years, it sticks out anomalously that we cannot sign the basic pieces required to let Self power to a ring the way Consonants, Cal and Roy have gotten to do. Just plain wrong. Self deserves one to three POWER teams that others have to get lucky to beat instead of KU always being the team that has to get lucky.
Regardless, I will work on my attitude!
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Kcmatt7 said:
@mayjay Chicago Sun not only reported it, but then doubled down on it after the Davis’ threatened a lawsuit saying they had sources from 3 separate universities that claimed Davis Sr. asked them for anywhere from $125k to $150k.
This.
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Researching this was interesting. The original article by author O’Brien was on Aug 5, 2010, on the Sun Times website. It said Davis was likely to go to UK and alleged that rumors were that the commitment cost S200,000. That was removed from the website that day.
The next day, Davis Senior’s lawyer threatened to sue. O’Brien contacted him for a comment, and he said “Thanks for ruining my son.” UK denied the story.
On Friday, the paper published a new O’Brien story that had the new quote about 3 alleged sources from other schools saying Davis Sr. had been seeking the 125 to 150 thou, but not alleging anything more about UK in particular.
The University issued a statement the next week threatening a lawsuit, noting the family and school denials, and seeking a statement specifically retracting all allegations and rumors as not based on credible sources.
No lawsuits were filed. No retractions, either.
A few years later, O’Brien wrote a retrospective about Davis in which he mention that “the Sun Times” had written about the Davis recruiting rumors in 2010, never mentioning that he himself wrote those articles.
Conclusion: I think the Sun Times very cleverly changed the allegation from the UK commitment to general allegations that the dad had sought money from other schools. This converted the original story to a Cam Newton story, and eliminated any allegation about UK specifically. Had Daddy sued, that would have opened his bank records to scrutiny. Whether he received anything illegitimate would have come out. The school no longer had any great harm it could assert, so it had no incentive to sue anymore.
Kuddos to Sun Times lawyers for a brilliant non-retraction/double-down that has still left everyone using those stories as their sources of alleged well-known payments to Davis.
I suspect Daddy got something at least, and he has gone quietly into a wealthy retirement.
Amusing aside: I came across this quote on a Louisville board’s 2014 recap of the Davis rumors:
That . . . sums up the Calipari era at UK. I’m coming to this realization: if that’s what it takes to land the #1 class all the time and to make 3 final fours in 5 years, count me out. I’d rather wait another 27 years for a championship than see the university from which I earned two degrees do business that way.
I didn’t do any follow-up to see what that poster has said following the unveiling of UL’s prostitution based recruiting, or the latest scandal that has cost Pitino his job!
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I say we run and gun and see what havoc we can wreck on the B12-2. Throw Sam, Silvio, Billy (fingers crossed), and even young and the DE out there for 2-3 min bursts before tv timeouts to give the thoroughbreds a reasonable rest and see what we can do through pure offensive fire power. We could very well run teams under the table with our extra boys. Guards win college bball. Let’s see if anyone can keep pace with our guards.
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@mayjay Yeah all of this stuff is very messy. There is no doubt at least in my mind that players get paid.
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@KUSTEVE I like how next year is looking A WHOLE LOT. I have no idea what jaybate is expecting.
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KUSTEVE said:
Woe is us because we don’t know if or when they’ll approved. Woe is us because the players coming in might take a while to get up to snuff. Let’s end the pity party. So our team will be at their best once we start playing for the Big Cheese - I can live with that.
I would take a final four over winning the conference any day of the week. The national media would never shut up about it,but honestly, I don’t follow those yahoos like i used to. I’m much more concerned about our preparation for march and if the guys we need contributions from are developing.
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@mayjay well now that you looked at that, read up on the AD, Kentucky and World Wide Wes connection…
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I am not sure what is the big deal about recruiting. Had Preston not had the car issue KU is doing fine and no one is taking about depth issues. Next year KU has the #2 class with still one more player to get. If KU gets one the players it has been pursuing it will likely move to #1 and this does not even consider the Lawsons and Moore who were all top 40 players and when included it makes up for likely the best class ever at KU.
Considering that in the last 10 years KU has the best record in college basketball while playing in one of the thougher if not the toughest conference means that it has had lots of quality players; you just don’t get to have the best record with average players.
The main factor affecting recruiting is location. As much as we like Lawrence, it is not the preferred destination for the largely urban group that makes up the bulk of the top prospects.
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@JayHawkFanToo Even if we had Preston, this is the thinnest collection of post players ever under Self.
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Coach Self has always indicated that by conference play he likes to have an 8 man rotation which is what KU has now, not even counting Preston; with him it’s a solid 9 man rotation.
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Only 1 5 guy though!
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Teams are moving away from Centers and using PFs instead. The Cavaliers start 3 PFs, LeBron as SF and one PG. The two Centers for the Warriors average just over 20 mpg combined. Two PFs that can hit from outside and rebound are better than one Center.
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Well ltft isn’t a backup for Doke no matter how you spin it. He’s out of position. Heard all that all a million times.
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I like the defense tonight.
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No, Lightfoot is not a backup for Doke, but if KU wants to go big it could do it with Preston and Lightfoot and have the outside shot to boot. Preston not playing has been the main issue and grades was the original concern and once he was cleared who would have thought a car would end up being the real issue, not me and obviously not the KU staff either.
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I hope I’m not the only one who has googled “Silvio De Sousa” 3-4 times a day for the last month praying for an update. Make it stop!!
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Self sounded confident after the game last night they will hear news today unless they have to appeal.
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@HighEliteMajor A fan might come to think that Self has actually become enamored of small ball. But then a look at next year’s probable lineup debunks that thinking.
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Wednesday was the final day of classes at IMG this semester. That’s why Friday has always been the day to hear about Silvio. Teacher’s have to input grades and then paperwork has to be processed which takes a day to do so in a situation like Silvio’s.
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@JayHawkFanToo I disagree just a bit with your analysis of playing “big.” You could claim to be playing big with Preston and Lightfoot, but you really aren’t. Big is Withey/TRob. Big is Aldrich/Morris. Big is Collison/Gooden. Big is Jackson/Arthur. Big is Embiid/Ellis. Big is Black/Ellis.
You are correct. You do not have to have a true center. But you have to have players that have post skills and can score down low, and players that can defend the post. Lightfoot isn’t that guy. And of course, Preston is just a hologram at this point.
But you seem to suggest that if we had Preston, then this wouldn’t be an issue.
I would suggest that your response about Self preferring an 8-9 man rotation is irrelevant when it comes to being thin up front. Even with Preston, we have only Doke and Preston. Lightfoot is not a competent 3rd big, when we compare to Self’s tenure. He is only playing because Self has no choice. How nice would it be to have a Hunter Mickelson right now? But my point is Doke, Preston, Lightfoot – that’s way thin. Thinnest ever. No doubt. Sosinski at least gives us a body. The next thinnest is 2011-12, when we had Withey, TRob, KY, and Wesley. And that collection of 4 is better by a long shot than what we have now (including Preston). We’ve had times when we have 6 true bigs on our roster.
Under Self, that 8-9 man rotation consisted of 5 perimeter players and 4 bigs. We would see the 5th perimeter player and 4th post guy get limited minutes, but that would depend on the game. We don’t even have a third big right now, and even if Preston was here, that 3rd big would be an Lightfoot.
Preston and DeSousa (assuming DeSousa is as good as expected), that fits what you’re suggesting.
@REHawk Me thinks the hi/low will make its return … hopefully with a higher rate of threes than before. Or at least not an “either/or” approach by Self.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I heard the ncaa is closed today, so we are unlikely to hear anything for a couple weeks if that is the case.
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@HawkChamp The NCAA website says it closes at 5 pm today.
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@mayjay thanks. Folks on other ku sites have posted quotes from the ncaa that they close today but that must be incorrect.
