Alexander, Diallo...Preston?
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@dylans As I recall, there were major rumors about Wilt. @jaybate-1-0 tends to know those things about KU’s legends.
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dylans said:
Lester Earl drove a very nice suv. I can’t remember which school bought it for him. I don’t recall any players getting in trouble for cars at KU though.
Didn’t Jeff Hawkins have a fender-bender in a drive-thru once? Not quite the same scenario as Preston’s, but that could be deemed “car trouble”, I suppose.
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I was thinking Jeff graves had a really nice black SUV. Cadillac Escalade?
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I have the little man on one shoulder telling me these same fears.
Fortunately, I have the other little man on my other shoulder keeping it positive about Billy. This is backed up with quite a bit of knowledge coming from people close to the situation. From what I have heard and read, we don’t have anything to worry about. This is all about the compliance office making sure Billy’s car is “legit.”
Let’s all feel good about our compliance department. With all the cr@p going on in the D1 world, feel good that we have perhaps the best compliance department in college and from this current situation with Billy, we now know that our compliance department takes priority over everything! Like it should be!
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@mayjay et al
To talk about Wilt’s time you have to index expectations and dollars. A $60k Corvette today ranged from $2.5-4K in the 50s to early 60s. Even by the late 60s, as an ordinary student, I could pay for half my tuition, books, room and board for two semesters making $2.08/hr on a union summer job for only 2.5 months with some OT. 15 years before me, in Wilt’s time, similar wages would likely have been $1.25-1.50/hr. Doesn’t sound like much, but…
In that era, a union wage was often able to sustain a family of four with Mom staying at home in a small, blue collar neighborhood house with two bedrooms, 1 bath, and one new car and maybe one old one, while still saving for college and retirement, if the parents were thrifty. Kids borrowed the parents cars, or drove wrecks.
My point here is things could be made easily affordable by an alum giving a player a real summer job that he only clocked into and out of without actually doing the job. The rest of the time he worked out, swam, or goofed. This form of support was fairly standard for all football and basketball players From the 50s to the 70s at all the schools I ever heard of. This support was further supplemented by then significant cash sums (distributed creatively) that seem paltry for today but which had considerable purchasing power.
To put this in perspective, at the Big Eight Christmas tournament in the mid 1960s one always saw the teams in street clothes hanging around the concourse, when not playing. The players were always better dressed than most of the fans. The players wore cashmere over coats and top quality hats and Florscheim and Nunn Bush and Allen Edmonds shell cordovan shoes that were top quality in those days. Jo Jo White was the handsomest and snappiest dresser I ever saw in those days and he was from a modest St. Louis background.
I don’t have first hand knowledge of cars but it was believed by many that most players got preferred deals on leases, or loans on new or used cars from local dealer/boosters. Every athlete I ever recall could always afford a good late model Chevelle or GTO or Charger no matter how poor of a background he came from, because of the summer job income plus the willingness of boosters to accept the credit risk of a player in a way they likely would not have on an ordinary student. This was envied by regular students but never thought scandalous that I recall.
Before my time, In the 1950s, and back east, top high school players played in the Borscht Belt hotel summer leagues and reputedly made the money necessary to “afford” travel and clothing for recruiting trips AND cars. They also reputedly actually did scutt work around the hotels for pay, when they weren’t balling, talking to NBA coaches, agents, or gamblers. Wilt wrote about this time in his life in one of his books. The better players likely got the better jobs and worked less. There is a famous picture of Wilt and Red Auerbach at one of the hotels. Red reputedly mentored Wilt some during those summer leagues, but I reckon Red was scouting him both if one day he signed him, and if one day he had to coach against him. Doubt much money changed hands between coaches and players, but I suspect lots of gifts from agents and gamblers were common.
I’ve only heard rumors about Wilt at KU. My dad said in those days it was discretely assumed most players got cash gifts from alumni. But the cash was not supposed to make them independently wealthy or pave the way to a shoe contract. It was just supposed to enable the guys to have snappy cars, flashy coats, pay for travel and dates, take some ski trips and cover party expenses.
Did Wilt get more than that? Well, I reckon some more, but probably not a lot. He likely got what he would have gotten at any school not run by gamblers.
IMHO Wilt would have gotten a lot more at a school largely run by numbers racketeers.
You have to understand the different kinds of booster groups in that era.
KU sports was built largely by James Naismith and Allen schmoozing with boosters in Lawrence and KC. They are rarely described this way, but my reading suggests that the boosters came to Naismith and said if we work this amateur athletic stuff right, we can turn these games into huge money makers for the towns where the games and tourneys are held. And Naismith saw it as a way to find physical education and it’s infrastructure. Hoteliers and restaurateurs and bar owners and strip club/whore house operators, plus cab companies, and the railroads all saw sporting events as a clean, fun, popular way to spike their revenues that had several multiplier effects. Construction companies got work for arenas, stadia, and hotels. And the sports infrastructure lead to more events—boat shows, car shows, concerts etc. it all helped put a place on the map. And it helped your university and it helped the poor kids getting a shot at degrees by playing sports.
This of course lead inexorably Into involvement with machine politics and state politics and with the New Deal federal politics.
KU cannot give up football, because of the game weekend revenues generated for Lawrence. Period. Losing is profitable. Winning is more so. TV Revenue is sweet for the Chancellor, but the political support for KU football of football game day revenues is really long. But I digress.
Early in KU sports Kansas City was a Pendergast machine town backed silently by the Mellons of Pittsburgh, PA, needing to control Kansas to ensure SE Kansas coal to crack Oklahoma crude in the Mellon’s own personal state—Oklahoma. The Mellons protected KC and Kansas, and enabled KU by connecting it to Rhodes Scholarships (and so the Round Table), and Western Missouri from being overrun by the Rockefeller/Morgan folks and by Jewish and Italian mafias back east for quite awhile. A different, more provincial and local underworld flourished supplying bootleg booze to “the territories.” But by the time of FDR in the 1930s, while he first built his base on the big city machine politicians including Boss Pendergast, in control of the KC Democratic Party, FDR then later began expediently clearing his wake of the machine politicians—a political sacrifice to satisfy the increasingly stronger Jewish and Italian mafias’ desires to expand westward and to satisfy the central banker owners that enabled the eastern mafias. FDR had only briefly been able to hold off the central bankers and their eastern mafias with his unholy alliance of city machines that were 19th century legacy holdovers in the by then Anglo-American central bank centric 20th Century. And lord knows the Roosevelt’s had been no angels themselves with their Dutch and German ties.
In this context, KU sports were buffeted by this migration of power and saw their booster base evolve away from local promoters to promoters like KC banks (locally owned but increasingly creatures of central bank centrism and also of the central bank owners’ Anglo-American oil refining oligopoly dynamics. Banks and Big oil players were becoming the heart of KU boosterism even by Wilt’s time, though the good old boys in Lawrence still hustled and promoted too. .
This second and transitional phase of KU sports was what the Phenom from Phillie walked into as a young man to play for the game’s greatest non gambling assisted coach—Phog Allen. The Mellons by Wilt’s time had peeked in national oligarchic power and were in some eclipse by the Rockefeller-Morgan and Harriman folks for myriad unsightly reasons tracking back to Andrew’s dealings as SecWar in WWI. But their empire still included Pennsylvania, where Wilt grew up, Kansas, where Wilt chose to play, Western Missouri and Oklahoma, as of the late 1950s.
Wilt came to a place grounded in a boosterism different from Rockefeller-Morgan and Harriman regions of the country. It’s not that there was no corruption. Kansas has had plenty of corruption. But it was a different scale and type and descended from a different private oligarchy.
Things were done differently in Pennsylvania than the New York-Ohio axis of oligarchy did them.
Did wilt get perks? I suspect so. Muck raking books on sports make clear all schools committed to cultivating big game day revenues paid players.
Was Wilt owned by the numbers racketeers that haunted and at times appeared to control college basketball in so many other regions? I doubt it. He and his family and his mentors, like Phog Allen and Red Auerbach has wised him up to how much he stood to make if he kept their hooks out of him.
I have always argued KU has apparently been the lepper with the most fingers, not a saint.
The game was born in the YMCA. But shortly after it began to be a creature of the promoters that in the early days promoted prize fighting, theater, vice and gambling. Naismith fought to retrieve some part of the game into a more sheltered part of the economy—university amateurism. The only Eden for basketball was in Naismith’s mind, when he first thought of it. From the moment the boys tried playing it, fighting broke out and rules had to be revised. Shortly the promoters and gamblers took it over. Fortunately Naismith and some other good men shepherded part of it in another direction. But outside Eden life is a dog fight between those that love a thing and those that wish to debase it just to make a little more money. There is never a decisive winner, or loser, except when the good guys give up.
Rock Chalk!!!
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@jaybate-1.0 Well, I knew I could count on you! Excellent history lesson!
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@jaybate-1-0 To add to your review of Wilt during his tenure at KU from '55 to '58 , I witnessed much of that time. As a graduate of Topeka High School in 1958, I had the opportunity to be at his first varsity game vs. Northwestern when he scored his career high of 52 points, his NCAA championship game against North Carolina at the old municipal auditorium in Kansas City and numerous other games during that time frame. Additionally, during his off time, he was frequently in Topeka at various locations of “extracurricular activity”. During his last two years at KU, he drove a new Cadillac Eldorado convertible. I’m sure he had a great summer job!!
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Awesome recall!!!
Thanks for being a little older than me and telling youngsters how it was.
Rock Chalk!
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@jhawknc1 Eldorado convertible was probably the vehicle wilt would fit in
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No change in prestons status after over 2 days. Yeah this isn’t good
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I don’t expect Preston to play an actual game in a KU uniform. Ever.
Silvio is required now.
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@BShark That’s what I’m thinking. Wow… talk about no depth…
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The car being registered in Florida is a big concern.
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Uggggggggggggggggggggggggggh
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Assuming Billy’s mother bought the car for him, the financing info is in her hands. It will take time to get that to KU, verify she has adequate income and (I’ll bet) search her financial records to make certain no one fronted the money or inappropriately co-signed a note. This all takes time.
Anyone know what year/make/model he was driving?
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Heard a rumor that he is done for the year and there will be an announcement on it before tomorrow’s game.
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@Gorilla72 yes what type of car was it? We know now it was registered in Florida. I’m a little worried it could be cliff 2.0.
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@BShark from a friend?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Seems to be circulating, have heard it from more than one person. I think there is validity to it unfortunately.
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Getting Cunliffe after the ASU game is even bigger now, really just need another remotely playable guy. Then best hope it works out with Silvio (which it should).
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@BShark so when Self says he expects him to be cleared sooner than later, he is lying?
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Eh just passing it on. Has Self said that recently? The more recent comments from him don’t seem great tbh.
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@BShark today
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We will see I suppose. Obviously it would be better if he could play, like I said I think this has a lot of substance.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Self said that today in an interview, highly doubt he’d comment in that tone. If it’s being announced tomorrow Self likely would’ve already known and wouldn’t have BS’d us like that.
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That was from before this rumor started circulating. I really don’t care about being right or wrong just passing it along. At this point if he suits up for KU I will be pleasantly surprised.
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@BShark I saw the rumor that said billy already knows.
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I dont think Self said he was confident Billy would be cleared. I believe he said the matter would be resolved sooner than later… That does not mean clearance. Resolved is finished… either way. Must be careful about words. They are tricky things. One extra or one missing… And then those damn ones that have multiple meanings
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In today’s speak, I think Coach Self is being pragmatic and attempting to manage expectations. He has noticeably dropped the “confident” word which connoted a likely positive outcome (from November 15) and instead is focused on a ‘resolution’ - which may or may not be in Billy’s favor. Regardless of outcome, I will not feel “led on”…these situations tend to take on a life of their own and change directions with chameleon like speed.
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Dwight Colby would be on the court now instead of Mitch.
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@wrwlumpy Yeah he had 19 and 10 last night!
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There has to be some big Juco hack that we could plug in for 8-10 a game if this situation goes south. Somewhere. We could get him a car or something.
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@HighEliteMajor or silvio
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@HighEliteMajor “We could get him a car or something.” Heck yes; there is a popular model positioned right now, out in the parking lot of the men’s dorm. Just a wee bit of body work, and it is up and running for our next Big.
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Coach Self said…We are going to prepare as if we are not going to have him and it would be a bonus if he is available…or words to that effect. Sounds to me like he is not too optimistic. How stupid would it be to drive a flashy car not obtained on the up and up and think it will not attract attention? Aren’t these high prospects and their families instructed extensively on what not to do so the status is not jeopardized? SMH.
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If I recall correctly, Darnell Jackson was given an older truck and some money as a present from someone that had been a long time family friend and mentor. Darnell had to sit a few games and repay the money.
If Billy is found ineligible, would he leave school immediately or stay and finish his first year? Would he be eligible for a scholarship if he is found ineligible? What an effin’ mess.
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@JayHawkFanToo If I remember rightly from the Jackson and Selby situations, anything over $1000 in impermissible benefits is a 9 game suspension and pay back.
From the information we have, that is the worst thing that could happen to Preston.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Coach Self said…We are going to prepare as if we are not going to have him and it would be a bonus if he is available…or words to that effect. Sounds to me like he is not too optimistic. How stupid would it be to drive a flashy car not obtained on the up and up and think it will not attract attention? Aren’t these high prospects and their families instructed extensively on what not to do so the status is not jeopardized? SMH.
How stupid? very.
But this is Preston we are talking about. It was a miracle he was even eligible.
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wouldn’t be a season without a big man messing it up
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BShark said:
I don’t expect Preston to play an actual game in a KU uniform. Ever.
Silvio is required now.
Man I agree. I’m sure starting to get that feeling. - Some people remark are just insane. - -A poster off the LJW under Billy status unchanged says that lots of kids get cars when they go to school which is - - - -True Then he says Billy is innocent of anything which is - - -who the hell knows - Then the statement of the decade he says - -ready ? - - -wait - -wait - - he says that KU/Self I guess is just trying to mess with Billy’s stats. - -LMAO - - KU is trying to mess with Billy’s stats? - - - What? - - trying to mess with Billy’s stats - -playing time.
OMG - -Seriously? - -that’s the best defense this guy has? - -KU is messing with Billy’s stats? - - Who gives a rats as about Billy’s stats? Were talking about the possibility even in the slightest about Billy’s eligibility, him possibly again I say possibly receiving impermissible benefits. So my question to this Einstein is - - So what KU just suppose to go ahead and play Billy not worry about anything as to where this late model dodge Charger came from - so it doesn’t mess with Billy’s Stats?
If it’s Billy car, possible bought by his mom - -then great, all they have to do is provide the proof that she bought it for him right? seems pretty simple, OR GOD forbid was it given to him by someone outside the family? -I’m not saying that happen - -but this is one of the things compliance has to find out right?
We go ahead and play Billy now and then on down the line they find out Billy was ineligible and we get stripped of anything we may win? - -I’ll rather try and get through this to find things out.
Good chance it’s nothing - something simply BUT that’s what protocol is all about, steps have to be followed NOT just some bullshit about OH KU is just messin with Billy’s stats - what the hell?
This guy doesn’t think KU - -Coach Self - -doesn’t want/need Billy on the court? - Billy’s decisions are not just effecting him - -he is effecting the entire team with these decisions. !st missing curfew, then deciding not to go to class/ now the car. - But alias, it all clear now KU - -Coach Self are just wanting to mess with Billy’s stats/playing time - Case settled lmao.
Like you, 1st we wanted De-Sousa here soon for depth, NOW we need him here soon, were going to be in the same position with depth now, but no longer a want - but a NEED. We really need De-Sousa her and quick. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BAY
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How does one explain the Florida plates? That’s the hold up for me. A Charger isn’t extravagant; I believe he could’ve legitimately come across one. I hope it all checks out, but if not KU will hold him out until the NCAA clears him and they may never clear him. I hope KU doesn’t get a rep as throwing the kids under the bus. I feel they are being cautious, but others may paint it in a different light.
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@Gorilla72 Agreed. - -things I have seen/read is though actually supposedly his mom is pretty financially stable, I guess makes pretty nice income - -But this is what needs to be found out. - This would be the ideal situation I think - -Mom DID buy the car straight up - -just takes time for her to get the proof to the school. Even with that being said though you would think she could fax that information to the compliance office in rather quick fashion to prove that she indeed bought the car.- - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Gorilla72 All I saw was that it was a late model Dodge Charger. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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dylans said:
How does one explain the Florida plates? That’s the hold up for me. A Charger isn’t extravagant; I believe he could’ve legitimately come across one. I hope it all checks out, but if not KU will hold him out until the NCAA clears him and they may never clear him. I hope KU doesn’t get a rep as throwing the kids under the bus. I feel they are being cautious, but others may paint it in a different light.
If they have cheaper taxes there that is the only thing that makes sense.
This is Billy’s car, he does own it. KU has even stated that much. And we know his mom is not starving for money at all, far from it. That is my one glimmer of hope.
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BShark said:
Heard a rumor that he is done for the year and there will be an announcement on it before tomorrow’s game. DAMN, isn’t that so special - - doesn’t surprise me if this is the case. I’m telling you the streak of these occurances is really starting to be a real pain.
Man I really hate to say it BUT our season our hopes for making a real push in the NCAA’S this year if this is the case just took a KO hit.
Not because Billy so super multi talented BUT strictly because of Depth issues, when it come to it we come up against any kind of team in the Tourney with big quality depth, Doke has done really good this year read where he only has 5 personals on the year being able to stay out of foul trouble but for instance we come up against a Duke with the height and talent not going to be good I’m afraid - - Strictly because no depth period on the frontline.
Like you said earlier, I don’t think now we will see Billy play ever again in a uniform at KU - if he is done for the year -he is gone at the end of the year - well he was going to be gone anyways probably but you know what I mean.
We have just GOT to get Silvio De-Sousa here soon now - -no longer a desire but a need a bad need, - -soon. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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you can lease a brand new charger for $300/month, so maybe Billy just isn’t spending his money on tattoos
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@DanR Yeah, but the Florida plates. He’s not from Florida. It’s really the only thing giving me pause about the situation.
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Say it ain’t so Billy!
