Are we done recruiting?
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Pitino suing Adidas, talk about biting the hand that feeds you…
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@BeddieKU23 If I was KU, I’d be as transparent as possible in the Zion recruitment and give them 4 or 5 different projected depth charts, ranked from the most likely to the least likely and where he would fit in those.
Scenario #1:
- PG - Dotson 25 MPG - Moore 15 MPG
- SG - Grimes 25 MPG- Garrett 10 MPG
- SF - Zion 30 MPG - Garrett 10 MPG - Cunliffe - 0 MPG
- PF - Lawson 28 MPG - De Sousa 10 MPG- Lawson 2 MPG - Lightfoot
- C - Doke 25 PMG - Big Dave 12 MPG - De Sousa - 3 MPG
Scenario #2 -
- PG - Dotson 25 MPG - Moore 15 MPG
- SG - Grimes 25 MPG - Langford 10 MPG - Garrett 5 MPG
- SF - Langford 20 MPG - Zion 10 MPG - Garrett 10 MPG - Cunliffe 0 MPG
- PF - Zion 20 MPG - De Sousa 15 MPG - Lawson 5 MPG - Lightfoot 0 MPG
- C - Lawson 28 MPG - Big Dave 12 MPG
Scenario #3-
- PG - Dotson 20 MPG - Moore 20 MPG
- SG - Vick 20 MPG - Garrett 12 MPG - Dotson - 5 MPG
- SF - Zion 20 MPG - Garrett 10 MPG - Vick 10 MPG - Cunliffe 0 MPG
- PF - De Sousa 20 MPG - Zion 10 MPG - Lawson 5 MPG - Lawson 5 MPG - Lightfoot - 0 MPG
- C - Lawson 25 MPG - Big Dave - 15 MPG
Scenario #4-
- PG - Dotson 15 MPG - Moore 25 MPG
- SG - Garrett 20 MPG- Dotson 15 MPG - Cunliffe - 5 MPG
- SF - Zion 20 MPG - Garrett 12 MPG - Cunliffe - 8 MPG
- PF - De Sousa 20 MPG- Zion 10 MPG - Lawson 5 MPG- Lawson 5 MPG - Lightfoot 0 MPG
- C - Lawson 25 MPG - Big Dave 15 MPG
Scenario #5:
- PG - Dotson 28 MPG - Moore 12 MPG
- SG - Grimes 28 MPG - Garrett - 3 MPG - Vick 10 MPG
- SF - Vick 18 MPG - Zion 12 MPG - Garrett 10 MPG - Cunliffe 0 MPG
- PF - Zion 18 MPG - Lawson 11 MPG - De Sousa 11 MPG - Lawson 0 MPG- Lightfoot 0 MPG
- C - Doke 23 MPG - Lawson 8 MPG - Big Dave 9 MPG
Either way, there is room for Zion and Self does a great job of showcasing Wings/4s. B-Mac, T-Rob, Wiggs, JJ, Selden, Oubre, Rush, Releford (12 ppg and 40%+ from trey his Senior year), Arthur and the Morris Twins all are examples of Self being able to exploit mismatches at the spot Zion will be playing. Nobody else recruiting him has that same resume.
If this were a 5 or a PG, Duke and UK probably have the edge resume-wise. But this is Bill’s sweet spot. I like our chances.
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@Kcmatt7 Nice breakdown.
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The math is slightly off in some of the scenarios but nothing big. You have Garret playing anywhere between 13 and 32 minutes, do you think there would be that much of a swing?
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@JayHawkFanToo I do. Of course that mostly depends on landing recruits. Without Zion, basically assume any minutes he would have had at the 3 would go to Garrett if he doesn’t come here.
The thing that will be interesting is how much KJ Lawson plays. We are obviously going to be recruiting the two younger Lawson’s and their cousin. Dedric is basically booked for 25-30 minutes guaranteed. But KJ might not even see the floor depending on what all happens. And that could really make recruiting interesting.
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@Kcmatt7 Not sure how serious of a target the cousin is. I think he ends up at UK. Solid point about KJ. Self seems to like him but if the staff lands all their top targets I’m not sure how he finds minutes.
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If KU gets all of its targets it would be its best recruiting class ever and right up there withe best of all time in college basketball. I just don’t think it will happen.
I believe we all can say that getting Grimes is likely and would round up the class nicely but then, playing time becomes scarcer and unlikely we get the other two; I would say we get one from Langford, Zion or Herro and call it a bonus. With the Lawsons and Moore also becoming available, it will be a large group of quality newcomers
Kentucky has only one commitment for 2018 and will have plenty of available scholarships and playing time so I will guess they will get a couple or three quality players before all is said and done. I understand they are now looking at Herro as well.
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@BShark I think the cousin ends up at UK too, but I do expect the staff to at least make a push.
I personally don’t like, well pretty much any of my cousins. So it might actually be working against us to have them in this one particular scenario lol.
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@JayHawkFanToo I do think Grimes + 2 random recruits that won’t contribute next year is most likely. Let’s say that happens while Newman, Preston and Vick go pro.
Guards: Dotson, Moore
Guard/Wing: Grimes, Garrett
Wing/small ball 4: KJ, Cunliffe
Forward: Dedric
Forward/C: SDS, Mitch
C: Doke, McCormack
Deep bench that won’t play: said 2 random recruits one of KJ/Cunliffe probably.
Not as deep but still far down the bench: Mitch, other one of KJ/Cunliffe I would lean towards KJ here.
That still doesn’t leave much for KJ/Cunliffe probably. I could also see Mitch taking a RS in this situation if he decides he wants to be around the program an extra year.
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@BShark I agree with you, I think we land Grimes - -after that we might land another some lesser profile. - -I still think we got a decent shot at Langford - but if not I’m not going to lose any sleep over it/
I mean we land Grimes that gives us a pretty damn good recruiting class - -Grimes - - -Dotson – De Sousa - - -McCormack. - -even if those four is what we end up with I won’t complain by far - -BUT I feel there will be a fifth one somewhere. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark Have to land either Zion or Langford in order to be a real NC contender next season in my opinion. Gives us length and depth at the 1-3 spots. It would amaze me if we couldn’t land a Wing after what we have done with JJ, Wigs, BMac and Rush. And hopefully Vick or Svi can play themselves into the 1st round.
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Lightfoot is studying Engineering and I don’t believe he has NBA or other basketball related aspirations, so, he will likely play 4 years, graduate and move on. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark Have to land either Zion or Langford in order to be a real NC contender next season in my opinion. Gives us length and depth at the 1-3 spots. It would amaze me if we couldn’t land a Wing after what we have done with JJ, Wigs, BMac and Rush. And hopefully Vick or Svi can play themselves into the 1st round.
Agreed, Dotson was a great start. Dave and Silvio are definitely good players to throw into the rotation but the players we are after still on the board are going to be the difference in next years potential. That is largely assuming we lose Vick & Doke or 1 of them at the minimum
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@JayHawkFanToo Yeah I have no idea to be clear which is why I phrased it the way I did.
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Dammit all, I wanna get Zion at KU!!
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@Lulufulu Sorry, but I just don’t think it’s happening. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 I will take senior Vick over any option in 2018 to play the wing.
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Would love a 4th year out of Vick and I hope it happens.
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I would love a 4th year out of Vick as well.
With How Self is recruiting the perimeter position we have a good guess that he’s expecting Vick to have a big season and is recruiting accordingly
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Ayo to Illinois as expected
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Quinerly de-committed from Arizona.
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Wow, this is big. Does he go to Villanova or considers others? Every major program will be after him.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Wow, this is big. Does he go to Villanova or considers others? Every major program will be after him.
Going to be a tall order for him to play anywhere with his connection to the FBI case.
And the bigger question is unless his name is cleared what school is going to take the chance?
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That is a really good point. I now recall that he is the unknown named player that signed with Arizona on or about a certain date and he also hired an attorney shortly after. Until he is cleared, and like you said, he will probably be radioactive; however, if he is cleared he will have every major program after him. I believe he is already 18 so the G-League would seem to be an option and of course he could also play overseas (China???)
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@JayHawkFanToo He’s not going to be cleared. He received a bribe from Book Richardson. The FBI has it on tape.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
That is a really good point. I now recall that he is the unknown named player that signed with Arizona on or about a certain date and he also hired an attorney shortly after. Until he is cleared, and like you said, he will probably be radioactive; however, if he is cleared he will have every major program after him. I believe he is already 18 so the G-League would seem to be an option and of course he could also play overseas (China???)
With what we know right now I would be extremely surprised to see him playing College Basketball next season. However he has a lawyer and I’m sure this will a very interesting story to follow in regards to how the NCAA views his amateurism. Quinerly wasn’t going to be a OAD so I’m sure they will be fighting hard to get him eligible. Will be interesting to see if College coaches stay away from him because of the publicity that will come with him.
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Well, that puts and end to it.
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You mean he will be the Colin Kaepernick of college basketball?
Will he sue the NCAA like CK is suing the NFL? Inquiring minds want to know.
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@BeddieKU23 Can the NCAA rule him ineligible without any actual hard proof? I mean until these cases have gone to trial, the evidence will most likely remain hidden.
If I was Tubby at Memphis or Archie at IU, I’d take him in a heart beat. Nobody will care if all the games get forfeited at the end of the season as long as you have a good season.
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@KUSTEVE YA his mom was given 15,000. - -. Interesting to see, looks like he is going to try and land at Villanova now. - -I don’t think he plays one minute of College ball.
When it is all said and done I think he ends up going oversea’s now and plays for a year then comes back and tests the NBA waters. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Kcmatt7 They have them nailed to the wall. I have no doubt the FBI has tons of evidence, or they wouldn’t have specifically referenced the actual case where Quinerly got the bribe in their press conference. I’m sure they have a money trail. This is obviously one of the gimmes…the open and shut case- they always lead with their strongest stuff. All of this will be shared at some point with the NCAA, I’m sure.
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He is 18 so I think he might be eligible for the G-League although I am not sure if they still require the 1 year wait. He can always go play at a prep-school in Canada like Thon Maker; eligibility rules there might be a little more forgiving.
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So let me ask for people’s latest take. Being brutally honest between the two who do you feel we have a better chance of landing - -Romeo Langford OR Zion Williamson.
Was just checking out Indiana Board and they have a thread and it says that he thinks Indiana is going to have to beat KU out for Langford - saying looks like KU is the school to beat -This coming from Corey Daniels from Rivals recruiting analyst.
I pretty much feel the same - -I just think our chances are better with Romeo then Zion - -Would love to have either one , Think I would have to hedge just a little to Romeo - -seems like more of a complete player but Zion is a stud - so what’s your take? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 Out of Langford or Zion, I’ll take a senior Lagerald Vick.
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@jayballer54 Langford. I’d love to have both though.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer54 Out of Langford or Zion, I’ll take a senior Lagerald Vick.
Well actually your probably right, in the long run that would be the best bet. - -I mean these two guys are really good for sure BUT - - you can’t replace experience - OR experience and talent. Could you imagine how we could stack up next year if Lagerald came back?
I just think we are going to have to wait and see how that turns out, I mean sure there is a possibility Lagerald comes back - -I just think - -well you can almost take it to the bank he is going to test the waters for sure - -If he has a solid year or above I think he is more likely then not he will be gone. - -I’m pretty sure this is one of the recruiting messages that Coach is also selling t these guys. - -Either way we gonna be good. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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dylans said:
@jayballer54 Langford. I’d love to have both though. Ya me too but I think you and I both know - - - that’s not happening. I truly think in the end Zion ends up at Kentucky , not that’s what I want BUT just thin that’s how it’s going down.
On the article I read off the Indiana board from Corey Daniels the rivals analyst - he said Garland and Langford will have their visits all done by the end of October and see’s a strong possibility of them both committing in the early period - -Man if we got Romeo - -you got to love it - -what a class. - Already got a hell of a class with the 3 we got and strong possibility of Grimes on top of that.
Speaking of Kentucky , Reading their threads, they don’t sound very confident about their team right now - -yep early but they think they are going to take some whuppings. - -They some - quite a few actually said they don’t think their is any way they are ready for KU when we play - - so young. - -I guess from their blue and White scrimmage - -umm not so much. - -Not that there is a lot to be put into this - -Kentucky will be Kentucky and they all say by March they should be ready to make a run - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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This is another Kentucky team that will have issues shooting the ball. Gonna have to get it done on D.
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Well not for sure what to think on this. I knew we had been really heavy on Matthew Hurt early - -# 5 in the Nation. Then not sure if we backed off he backed off or a combination of the two. But when it came time for his officials we weren’t even listed as one of the five - -figured that it was pretty much a done deal that we were out of THAT picture for one reason or another.
Then tonight I read that Coach Self was suppose to see him this coming Monday - -Oct 23rd. - - Then he is suppose to have an -un-offical visit to KU on November 17th when we play South Dakota St. - - So guess we are still recruiting him - -I don’t really think a lot of serious consideration for him but who knows. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 Hurt is a 2019 recruit. Can’t take officials yet so time still hasn’t come for his official visits. KU is still recruiting him. Good connections in the area. Staff wants him, JRE and Chandler but can they pull all three? Hard to say but I’d bet no. If I had to bet I’d say Chandler and JRE are Hawks, Hurt goes elsewhere. Hurt is the best player of the three though.
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@BShark Ya I just can’t imagine getting Hurt with us getting Chandler & Robinson - -just being hearing that we weren’t as involved as of late. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 Looks like KU will recruit him until he eliminates KU or commits.
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jayballer54 said:
@BShark Ya I just can’t imagine getting Hurt with us getting Chandler & Robinson - -just being hearing that we weren’t as involved as of late. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I think we stopped recruiting him
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BShark said:
@jayballer54 Hurt is a 2019 recruit. Can’t take officials yet so time still hasn’t come for his official visits. KU is still recruiting him. Good connections in the area. Staff wants him, JRE and Chandler but can they pull all three? Hard to say but I’d bet no. If I had to bet I’d say Chandler and JRE are Hawks, Hurt goes elsewhere. Hurt is the best player of the three though.
I think Chandler and JRE are a much better fit then Hurt is in a KU uniform. Hurt compares to Sam Dekker without the defense. I’m surprised he’s ranked as highly as he is but to his credit he’s a matchup nightmare for defenders at the HS level to stop. In College he’s going to face guys his size that can defend him and Hurt’s major weakness at the moment besides weight/strength is his defense. If your not a good defender already at this stage your going to struggle at the next level. Hurt should focus on becoming a College 3 which is where I believe his long term success will come. If he lands at KU I fear this goes just like Carlton Bragg 2.0, trying to force a jump shooter to bang in the post.
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@BeddieKU23 Fair point. Not sure he’s a great fit for the college game then. Would be tough for him to defend college wings.
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 Fair point. Not sure he’s a great fit for the college game then. Would be tough for him to defend college wings.
I think he’s a great fit in certain schemes/programs. The College Game is all about offense these days anyway so maybe I’m just overthinking it. I would love to have his ability to score at KU. Long term- I see Kyle Wiltjer in him who was a highly touted HS kid and became a prolific scorer through his College Career.
We have a big wave of scorers leaving the program in the next year so its going to be important that KU lands difference makers in 2019 as well. Hurt is certainly a difference maker in a good class that KU has done a ton of early leg work.
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@BeddieKU23 I think he could be a great College 4. From what I’ve read, Hurt scores the ball efficiently inside and rebounds well. He also brings a 35% shot from trey to the table to top it off.
TBH, doesn’t a guy who is a stretch 4 with near wing-like athleticism fit exactly what college bball/Bill Self is moving towards? As long as he can slide his feet and they don’t look like they are tied to Cinder Blocks like Carlton’s were, I think he will be a very good player. CB had the lateral quickness of a crocodile and the leg strength of a newborn baby which led to an inability to get open. You have to have at least one of those things (strength or quickness) to be able to score at the college level and he had neither. So, providing Hurt has the ability to move his feet, I think he can probably be a guy who scores at 3 levels.
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He’s a versatile player who’s greatest value and the reason he’s ranked highly is because right now there are few that can guard him at his size and skill right now. His jump shot is real nice and can shoot over the top of almost anyone. He won’t wow you athletically or for his ability to defend the post (which is why I think he’s a version of Sam Dekker and Kyle Wiltjer at the same stage). Very polished skill wise offensively, has that new age inside/out game that is coveted. Needs a good S&D program badly (good thing we know of one)
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Kyle Wiltjer numbers got much better once he got to Gonzaga; much better set up for his skills than Kentucky
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Kyle Wiltjer numbers got much better once he got to Gonzaga; much better set up for his skills than Kentucky
Very true, he realized after that NC year he was going to have to go somewhere else to have the role he wanted and Gonzaga definitely gave him that opportunity.
Hurt has a very similar game to the guys I mentioned and he badly needs a good S&D program to put weight on his frame. There’s no way he shouldn’t be playing at 215-220 at least at 6’9. Ranked in the Top 10 right now, I think he’ll be around in College a lot longer then his ranking suggest. Seems to be only intersted in the big elite schools (besides the home school Minnesota)
