Are we done recruiting?
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Good points, it might be beneficial that Zion waits until spring. Still a lot of moving parts as you have laid out some of them.
I think the two things work in our favor, Dotson and the previous wings that have come through this program recently. Self does cater his offenses around these types of guys so I don’t think Duke and Kentucky can get away with negatively recruiting against Self in that regard. Dotson also was a player that had excellent chemistry with Zion and Zion would know what type of player would be setting up his shots and running the team.
This is the heavyweight recruitment we can definitely win. It seems unlikely but I wouldn’t be shocked either
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@BShark It would be hard to make a case against that. I’m definitely one of those “bird in the hand” types of guys.
However, I have my reservations about 6’5 sharp shooters in Self’s system. Svi has not looked like we expected, BG was ran out of town, Andrew White was recruited right over, Alex Galindo didn’t last, Giddens was never consistent before his incident, and Micah Downs bolted. It is almost like Self’s break them down to build them up approach doesn’t work with guys who are just shooters because their psyche is more fragile or something.
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I think the smart money is on KJ ending up at Kentucky after pushing that announcement back.
Crazy that Herro isn’t going to be a Badger. He’s real good and it sounds like he knows it.
Clickbait Jimmy assures me it’s MD and that the dad loves MD.
Watch that sentiment change. I think KJ has thrown a ton of misdirection at Maryland. He’ll end up at Texas before Maryland and I think Kentucky is just going to show him he’s their guy. That’s how I see it
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I think the smart money is on KJ ending up at Kentucky after pushing that announcement back.
Crazy that Herro isn’t going to be a Badger. He’s real good and it sounds like he knows it.
Clickbait Jimmy assures me it’s MD and that the dad loves MD.
Watch that sentiment change. I think KJ has thrown a ton of misdirection at Maryland. He’ll end up at Texas before Maryland and I think Kentucky is just going to show him he’s their guy. That’s how I see it
He waited until minutes before the Dotson announcement, so it will be awhile.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Good points, it might be beneficial that Zion waits until spring. Still a lot of moving parts as you have laid out some of them.
I think the two things work in our favor, Dotson and the previous wings that have come through this program recently. Self does cater his offenses around these types of guys so I don’t think Duke and Kentucky can get away with negatively recruiting against Self in that regard. Dotson also was a player that had excellent chemistry with Zion and Zion would know what type of player would be setting up his shots and running the team.
This is the heavyweight recruitment we can definitely win. It seems unlikely but I wouldn’t be shocked either
Adidas did work getting that pairing to happen for a tournament. Not saying it wasn’t all above board but they did work.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark It would be hard to make a case against that. I’m definitely one of those “bird in the hand” types of guys.
However, I have my reservations about 6’5 sharp shooters in Self’s system. Svi has not looked like we expected, BG was ran out of town, Andrew White was recruited right over, Alex Galindo didn’t last, Giddens was never consistent before his incident, and Micah Downs bolted. It is almost like Self’s break them down to build them up approach doesn’t work with guys who are just shooters because their psyche is more fragile or something.
Svi actually isn’t really a sharp shooter though. He’s been doing more things and he has always kinda been a volume type guy. Now Frank in his SR year, that was
BG and AWIII were not athletic enough to thrive under Self. I’ll tell you though that AWIII was not ran out of town.
dad situation.Anyway I do somewhat agree with you on the general take. I think if KU is considering him they need to take a long hard look in regards to if they feel he is athletic enough to get minutes for Self.
Before anyone mentions Brady it’s obvious why he played.
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@BShark Like I said, 6’5 guys. Not Brady, Tyrell or Frank. They do enough things well that when they aren’t making shots they can still impact the game. But when a shooter isn’t even shooting well and then getting beat on D and Self is in their ear, I can understand why they break down.
As far as Svi goes, I think he has the skillset to do more offensively than he has. With that being said, he takes twice as many 3 balls as he does 2 point shots… So he has been in that role. And hasn’t been bad, but just hasn’t been great.
I loved AWIII. One of my favorite players who I think just got a raw deal. Worked out for him in the end it looks like. He was given every opportunity at a premier program and landed with the Celtics.
But long story short, there is somewhat of a trend… I think Herro will need to be able to play some D or score at multiple levels in order to succeed under Self.
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I think the smart money is on KJ ending up at Kentucky after pushing that announcement back.
Crazy that Herro isn’t going to be a Badger. He’s real good and it sounds like he knows it.
Clickbait Jimmy assures me it’s MD and that the dad loves MD.
Watch that sentiment change. I think KJ has thrown a ton of misdirection at Maryland. He’ll end up at Texas before Maryland and I think Kentucky is just going to show him he’s their guy. That’s how I see it
He waited until minutes before the Dotson announcement, so it will be awhile.
Looks like Maryland a major player for one time target Jarius Hamilton. Remember his coach was a huge KU fan. A lot of programs went the other way on him after his poor summer. Tools to be a top 100 player but he certainly didn’t play like one this summer. Maryland after someone to replace KJ I think
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Good points, it might be beneficial that Zion waits until spring. Still a lot of moving parts as you have laid out some of them.
I think the two things work in our favor, Dotson and the previous wings that have come through this program recently. Self does cater his offenses around these types of guys so I don’t think Duke and Kentucky can get away with negatively recruiting against Self in that regard. Dotson also was a player that had excellent chemistry with Zion and Zion would know what type of player would be setting up his shots and running the team.
This is the heavyweight recruitment we can definitely win. It seems unlikely but I wouldn’t be shocked either
Adidas did work getting that pairing to happen for a tournament. Not saying it wasn’t all above board but they did work.
Agree I’m sure there was some influence involved. It’s just like any Nike event held…
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Kcmatt7 said:
But long story short, there is somewhat of a trend… I think Herro will need to be able to play some D or score at multiple levels in order to succeed under Self.
Pretty sure we are on the exact same page.
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I think the smart money is on KJ ending up at Kentucky after pushing that announcement back.
Crazy that Herro isn’t going to be a Badger. He’s real good and it sounds like he knows it.
Clickbait Jimmy assures me it’s MD and that the dad loves MD.
Watch that sentiment change. I think KJ has thrown a ton of misdirection at Maryland. He’ll end up at Texas before Maryland and I think Kentucky is just going to show him he’s their guy. That’s how I see it
He waited until minutes before the Dotson announcement, so it will be awhile.
Looks like Maryland a major player for one time target Jarius Hamilton. Remember his coach was a huge KU fan. A lot of programs went the other way on him after his poor summer. Tools to be a top 100 player but he certainly didn’t play like one this summer. Maryland after someone to replace KJ I think
Clickbait Jimmy tells me MD would take both. Just like they would have taken Dotson and Ayala no doubt.
Oh and agree about Hamilton in general he played himself OUT of big offers this summer with his horrible shooting.
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I think the smart money is on KJ ending up at Kentucky after pushing that announcement back.
Crazy that Herro isn’t going to be a Badger. He’s real good and it sounds like he knows it.
Clickbait Jimmy assures me it’s MD and that the dad loves MD.
Watch that sentiment change. I think KJ has thrown a ton of misdirection at Maryland. He’ll end up at Texas before Maryland and I think Kentucky is just going to show him he’s their guy. That’s how I see it
He waited until minutes before the Dotson announcement, so it will be awhile.
Looks like Maryland a major player for one time target Jarius Hamilton. Remember his coach was a huge KU fan. A lot of programs went the other way on him after his poor summer. Tools to be a top 100 player but he certainly didn’t play like one this summer. Maryland after someone to replace KJ I think
Clickbait Jimmy tells me MD would take both. Just like they would have taken Dotson and Ayala no doubt.
Oh and agree about Hamilton in general he played himself OUT of big offers this summer with his horrible shooting.
He went from lock to stay in-state to lock to leave the state. Not saying Maryland wouldn’t get use out of him but they need to take a big reality check with why they are even an option for him
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Pitino suing Adidas, talk about biting the hand that feeds you…
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@BeddieKU23 If I was KU, I’d be as transparent as possible in the Zion recruitment and give them 4 or 5 different projected depth charts, ranked from the most likely to the least likely and where he would fit in those.
Scenario #1:
- PG - Dotson 25 MPG - Moore 15 MPG
- SG - Grimes 25 MPG- Garrett 10 MPG
- SF - Zion 30 MPG - Garrett 10 MPG - Cunliffe - 0 MPG
- PF - Lawson 28 MPG - De Sousa 10 MPG- Lawson 2 MPG - Lightfoot
- C - Doke 25 PMG - Big Dave 12 MPG - De Sousa - 3 MPG
Scenario #2 -
- PG - Dotson 25 MPG - Moore 15 MPG
- SG - Grimes 25 MPG - Langford 10 MPG - Garrett 5 MPG
- SF - Langford 20 MPG - Zion 10 MPG - Garrett 10 MPG - Cunliffe 0 MPG
- PF - Zion 20 MPG - De Sousa 15 MPG - Lawson 5 MPG - Lightfoot 0 MPG
- C - Lawson 28 MPG - Big Dave 12 MPG
Scenario #3-
- PG - Dotson 20 MPG - Moore 20 MPG
- SG - Vick 20 MPG - Garrett 12 MPG - Dotson - 5 MPG
- SF - Zion 20 MPG - Garrett 10 MPG - Vick 10 MPG - Cunliffe 0 MPG
- PF - De Sousa 20 MPG - Zion 10 MPG - Lawson 5 MPG - Lawson 5 MPG - Lightfoot - 0 MPG
- C - Lawson 25 MPG - Big Dave - 15 MPG
Scenario #4-
- PG - Dotson 15 MPG - Moore 25 MPG
- SG - Garrett 20 MPG- Dotson 15 MPG - Cunliffe - 5 MPG
- SF - Zion 20 MPG - Garrett 12 MPG - Cunliffe - 8 MPG
- PF - De Sousa 20 MPG- Zion 10 MPG - Lawson 5 MPG- Lawson 5 MPG - Lightfoot 0 MPG
- C - Lawson 25 MPG - Big Dave 15 MPG
Scenario #5:
- PG - Dotson 28 MPG - Moore 12 MPG
- SG - Grimes 28 MPG - Garrett - 3 MPG - Vick 10 MPG
- SF - Vick 18 MPG - Zion 12 MPG - Garrett 10 MPG - Cunliffe 0 MPG
- PF - Zion 18 MPG - Lawson 11 MPG - De Sousa 11 MPG - Lawson 0 MPG- Lightfoot 0 MPG
- C - Doke 23 MPG - Lawson 8 MPG - Big Dave 9 MPG
Either way, there is room for Zion and Self does a great job of showcasing Wings/4s. B-Mac, T-Rob, Wiggs, JJ, Selden, Oubre, Rush, Releford (12 ppg and 40%+ from trey his Senior year), Arthur and the Morris Twins all are examples of Self being able to exploit mismatches at the spot Zion will be playing. Nobody else recruiting him has that same resume.
If this were a 5 or a PG, Duke and UK probably have the edge resume-wise. But this is Bill’s sweet spot. I like our chances.
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@Kcmatt7 Nice breakdown.
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The math is slightly off in some of the scenarios but nothing big. You have Garret playing anywhere between 13 and 32 minutes, do you think there would be that much of a swing?
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@JayHawkFanToo I do. Of course that mostly depends on landing recruits. Without Zion, basically assume any minutes he would have had at the 3 would go to Garrett if he doesn’t come here.
The thing that will be interesting is how much KJ Lawson plays. We are obviously going to be recruiting the two younger Lawson’s and their cousin. Dedric is basically booked for 25-30 minutes guaranteed. But KJ might not even see the floor depending on what all happens. And that could really make recruiting interesting.
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@Kcmatt7 Not sure how serious of a target the cousin is. I think he ends up at UK. Solid point about KJ. Self seems to like him but if the staff lands all their top targets I’m not sure how he finds minutes.
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If KU gets all of its targets it would be its best recruiting class ever and right up there withe best of all time in college basketball. I just don’t think it will happen.
I believe we all can say that getting Grimes is likely and would round up the class nicely but then, playing time becomes scarcer and unlikely we get the other two; I would say we get one from Langford, Zion or Herro and call it a bonus. With the Lawsons and Moore also becoming available, it will be a large group of quality newcomers
Kentucky has only one commitment for 2018 and will have plenty of available scholarships and playing time so I will guess they will get a couple or three quality players before all is said and done. I understand they are now looking at Herro as well.
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@BShark I think the cousin ends up at UK too, but I do expect the staff to at least make a push.
I personally don’t like, well pretty much any of my cousins. So it might actually be working against us to have them in this one particular scenario lol.
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@JayHawkFanToo I do think Grimes + 2 random recruits that won’t contribute next year is most likely. Let’s say that happens while Newman, Preston and Vick go pro.
Guards: Dotson, Moore
Guard/Wing: Grimes, Garrett
Wing/small ball 4: KJ, Cunliffe
Forward: Dedric
Forward/C: SDS, Mitch
C: Doke, McCormack
Deep bench that won’t play: said 2 random recruits one of KJ/Cunliffe probably.
Not as deep but still far down the bench: Mitch, other one of KJ/Cunliffe I would lean towards KJ here.
That still doesn’t leave much for KJ/Cunliffe probably. I could also see Mitch taking a RS in this situation if he decides he wants to be around the program an extra year.
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@BShark I agree with you, I think we land Grimes - -after that we might land another some lesser profile. - -I still think we got a decent shot at Langford - but if not I’m not going to lose any sleep over it/
I mean we land Grimes that gives us a pretty damn good recruiting class - -Grimes - - -Dotson – De Sousa - - -McCormack. - -even if those four is what we end up with I won’t complain by far - -BUT I feel there will be a fifth one somewhere. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark Have to land either Zion or Langford in order to be a real NC contender next season in my opinion. Gives us length and depth at the 1-3 spots. It would amaze me if we couldn’t land a Wing after what we have done with JJ, Wigs, BMac and Rush. And hopefully Vick or Svi can play themselves into the 1st round.
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Lightfoot is studying Engineering and I don’t believe he has NBA or other basketball related aspirations, so, he will likely play 4 years, graduate and move on. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark Have to land either Zion or Langford in order to be a real NC contender next season in my opinion. Gives us length and depth at the 1-3 spots. It would amaze me if we couldn’t land a Wing after what we have done with JJ, Wigs, BMac and Rush. And hopefully Vick or Svi can play themselves into the 1st round.
Agreed, Dotson was a great start. Dave and Silvio are definitely good players to throw into the rotation but the players we are after still on the board are going to be the difference in next years potential. That is largely assuming we lose Vick & Doke or 1 of them at the minimum
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@JayHawkFanToo Yeah I have no idea to be clear which is why I phrased it the way I did.
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Dammit all, I wanna get Zion at KU!!
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@Lulufulu Sorry, but I just don’t think it’s happening. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 I will take senior Vick over any option in 2018 to play the wing.
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Would love a 4th year out of Vick and I hope it happens.
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I would love a 4th year out of Vick as well.
With How Self is recruiting the perimeter position we have a good guess that he’s expecting Vick to have a big season and is recruiting accordingly
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Ayo to Illinois as expected
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Quinerly de-committed from Arizona.
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Wow, this is big. Does he go to Villanova or considers others? Every major program will be after him.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Wow, this is big. Does he go to Villanova or considers others? Every major program will be after him.
Going to be a tall order for him to play anywhere with his connection to the FBI case.
And the bigger question is unless his name is cleared what school is going to take the chance?
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That is a really good point. I now recall that he is the unknown named player that signed with Arizona on or about a certain date and he also hired an attorney shortly after. Until he is cleared, and like you said, he will probably be radioactive; however, if he is cleared he will have every major program after him. I believe he is already 18 so the G-League would seem to be an option and of course he could also play overseas (China???)
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@JayHawkFanToo He’s not going to be cleared. He received a bribe from Book Richardson. The FBI has it on tape.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
That is a really good point. I now recall that he is the unknown named player that signed with Arizona on or about a certain date and he also hired an attorney shortly after. Until he is cleared, and like you said, he will probably be radioactive; however, if he is cleared he will have every major program after him. I believe he is already 18 so the G-League would seem to be an option and of course he could also play overseas (China???)
With what we know right now I would be extremely surprised to see him playing College Basketball next season. However he has a lawyer and I’m sure this will a very interesting story to follow in regards to how the NCAA views his amateurism. Quinerly wasn’t going to be a OAD so I’m sure they will be fighting hard to get him eligible. Will be interesting to see if College coaches stay away from him because of the publicity that will come with him.
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Well, that puts and end to it.
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You mean he will be the Colin Kaepernick of college basketball?
Will he sue the NCAA like CK is suing the NFL? Inquiring minds want to know.
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@BeddieKU23 Can the NCAA rule him ineligible without any actual hard proof? I mean until these cases have gone to trial, the evidence will most likely remain hidden.
If I was Tubby at Memphis or Archie at IU, I’d take him in a heart beat. Nobody will care if all the games get forfeited at the end of the season as long as you have a good season.
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@KUSTEVE YA his mom was given 15,000. - -. Interesting to see, looks like he is going to try and land at Villanova now. - -I don’t think he plays one minute of College ball.
When it is all said and done I think he ends up going oversea’s now and plays for a year then comes back and tests the NBA waters. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Kcmatt7 They have them nailed to the wall. I have no doubt the FBI has tons of evidence, or they wouldn’t have specifically referenced the actual case where Quinerly got the bribe in their press conference. I’m sure they have a money trail. This is obviously one of the gimmes…the open and shut case- they always lead with their strongest stuff. All of this will be shared at some point with the NCAA, I’m sure.
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He is 18 so I think he might be eligible for the G-League although I am not sure if they still require the 1 year wait. He can always go play at a prep-school in Canada like Thon Maker; eligibility rules there might be a little more forgiving.
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So let me ask for people’s latest take. Being brutally honest between the two who do you feel we have a better chance of landing - -Romeo Langford OR Zion Williamson.
Was just checking out Indiana Board and they have a thread and it says that he thinks Indiana is going to have to beat KU out for Langford - saying looks like KU is the school to beat -This coming from Corey Daniels from Rivals recruiting analyst.
I pretty much feel the same - -I just think our chances are better with Romeo then Zion - -Would love to have either one , Think I would have to hedge just a little to Romeo - -seems like more of a complete player but Zion is a stud - so what’s your take? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 Out of Langford or Zion, I’ll take a senior Lagerald Vick.
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@jayballer54 Langford. I’d love to have both though.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer54 Out of Langford or Zion, I’ll take a senior Lagerald Vick.
Well actually your probably right, in the long run that would be the best bet. - -I mean these two guys are really good for sure BUT - - you can’t replace experience - OR experience and talent. Could you imagine how we could stack up next year if Lagerald came back?
I just think we are going to have to wait and see how that turns out, I mean sure there is a possibility Lagerald comes back - -I just think - -well you can almost take it to the bank he is going to test the waters for sure - -If he has a solid year or above I think he is more likely then not he will be gone. - -I’m pretty sure this is one of the recruiting messages that Coach is also selling t these guys. - -Either way we gonna be good. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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dylans said:
@jayballer54 Langford. I’d love to have both though. Ya me too but I think you and I both know - - - that’s not happening. I truly think in the end Zion ends up at Kentucky , not that’s what I want BUT just thin that’s how it’s going down.
On the article I read off the Indiana board from Corey Daniels the rivals analyst - he said Garland and Langford will have their visits all done by the end of October and see’s a strong possibility of them both committing in the early period - -Man if we got Romeo - -you got to love it - -what a class. - Already got a hell of a class with the 3 we got and strong possibility of Grimes on top of that.
Speaking of Kentucky , Reading their threads, they don’t sound very confident about their team right now - -yep early but they think they are going to take some whuppings. - -They some - quite a few actually said they don’t think their is any way they are ready for KU when we play - - so young. - -I guess from their blue and White scrimmage - -umm not so much. - -Not that there is a lot to be put into this - -Kentucky will be Kentucky and they all say by March they should be ready to make a run - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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This is another Kentucky team that will have issues shooting the ball. Gonna have to get it done on D.
