How long of a leash does Beaty get?

  • Kansas came out Saturday looking like they had better things to do against TT. They had two weeks to prepare for the game still found themselves down 21-0 less than 8 minutes into the game. My question is how many of these 40 plus point blowouts does Beaty get this year? This is the first of my guess at least 3, this Saturday and the CMU game are 2 times where it was very evident that no progress has been made with the program. I honestly think we are worse than the 2015 team, we just got lucky and played a crap FCS team. I honestly would bet on a winless Baylor team beating us bye 20+ in our own stadium. You all know I don’t believe in firings mid season but at this point I have no clue how Beaty keeps his job baring the team flipping a 180 and winning a game or two at seasons end. We have guys that are in their 3rd year of starting and still look completely lost under Beaty.

  • @kjayhawks There’s 2 very important issues to consider when discussing Beaty’s future. There’s the on field issues and the off field issues.

    In regards to the on field issues, KU still has a scholarship deficit that is going to take two more years to catch up on. KU also still has to two Louisiana studs committed and firing Beaty means resetting the clock on the scholarship numbers which puts the next coach in a hole from the start. It would also mean losing Tony Hull and the two Louisiana studs. Firing Beaty also leads to the off field issue

    If Beaty gets fired, how do you allow Zenger to hire a 3rd football coach. If it was a situation where the coaches were leaving for better jobs, then hiring a 3rd coach is reasonable, but Beaty would be the 3rd coach Zenger has fired for lack of on field performance. That’s almost unheard of.

    The issue with firing Zenger though is all the work he’s done on the fundraising side for the athletic department. Rock Chalk Park, DeBruce Center, Memorial Stadium, Hoglund, Allen Fieldhouse, and Horesji have all been built/renovated/upgraded as a result of Zenger’s fundraising efforts.

    My personal opinion is that KU has to give Beaty his full 5 years to get the scholarship numbers in line regardless of record. This also gives Zenger enough time to make even more headway on the remaining $300 million left for the Memorial Stadium renovations. To me, all decisions regarding the futures of the football coach and AD have to be made with the Memorial Stadium renovations in mind. That project is the absolute top priority for KU Athletics because of the upcoming round of conference realignment that will happen when we get closer to the expiration of the B12 TV deal and the GoR that goes with that deal. ESPN and Fox both vetoing B12 expansion this summer means the B12 is on its last legs now.

  • @Texas-Hawk-10 whoa, you are giving sz way to much credit!

  • @Texas-Hawk-10 That’s the issue, it’s a catch a 22 as always but if we getting worse the stadium maybe completely empty. As I stated earlier on here is that if attendance dips to less than 20K officially, it will be the lowest in over 25 years. I look for the fund raising for the upgrades to take years apon years.

  • @kjayhawks I think a start would to dump Bowen because of his inept play calling and defensive schemes.

    I’d like to see KU srick with Bender at QB because he does allow KU to stretch the field which we haven’t had since Reesing. He’s not an elite QB, but neither is Stanley nor is Starks, but Bender does currently give KU the best chance to be competitive. He’s going to have bad games though and Saturday was a bad game for him, that’s what happens when you have non elite QB’s.

  • @Texas-Hawk-10 I agree about Bender, if he could get his longv ball to come I he’d be decent.

  • Fire Bowen first. I actually think Offensively this team has taken a major step up. Just schematically. But now we need to get a defensive coordinator who is actually good. I love that Bowen loves KU. But it is time for him to move on. He just isn’t a good DC.

    Now, I do agree that we have to wait. Even if the on field performance keeps sucking, you have to just let Beaty at least get us to a 3 or 4 win team. Which will happen eventually. At that point, the KU job would finally be showing enough promise that you could probably make a splashy hire or at least get a real up and comer to take the job. But let’s not be the Browns. Continually firing a HC is not going to solve the problem. Consistency at the HC position is very important. Even if the guy there sucks, we need to ride him out for a little while longer. I still think that he is doing it the right way. And that Beaty could still be the guy. I just think he needs a couple of more years to get some playmakers on the field.

  • @Kcmatt7

    Good points. If the defense could step up as much as the offense has, the team could be competitive.

    I had high hopes for this team but I just don’t see it winning a game the rest of the season.

  • @JayHawkFanToo As long as they don’t keep rotating QB’s, this team is good enough offensively to outscore someone on a good day.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Me either. Although if the Baylor game isn’t at least close for 3 quarters, I’ll probably be a little upset.

  • @Kcmatt7 I agree to an extent. I honestly don’t believe Beaty can get us to more than 3 wins and that 3 wins maybe 3 years or longer from now. His only shoot is recruiting kids that don’t need development, he hasn’t shown he can develop 3 year guys.

  • @kjayhawks a program like KU needs to have 5 year guys in the system though. And Beaty doesn’t have that. He hasn’t had a full cycle of development yet until his 5th year. 2* and 3* guys just aren’t ready to play in their 3rd year. And it isn’t fair to grade him on players still in the system that he didn’t even recruit. A complete culture change takes a long time. Let’s not pretend that he inherited a 5 win team that had any sort of talent on it.

    If anything, you have to give him one more year and try to get these very good players he has somehow landed on campus and signed. And then, if you are going to fire him, you better hire the best available coach. A Chip Kelly for $8-10M a season guy. Otherwise, Beaty better get 5 years.

  • @Kcmatt7 to me there is no excuse good enough for our current state. Mangino and Synder turned around programs here by developing players. Something Beaty doesn’t know how to do.

  • @kjayhawks He inherited a worse situation than Mangino. And to expect him to be Snyder, a top 10 coach of all-time is asking a little bit much I think.

    I guarantee that people did not think very highly of Mangino until the Orange bowl year. 25-35 going into that season. Which was his 6th season.

  • @Kcmatt7

    100% correct. Having less than 60 scholarship players for a D1 squad makes it basically impossible to compete in a Power 5. I think we are finally into the 70s for scholarship players and should go over 80 next year. We probably won’t have the full scholarship squad until 2019 or 2020. Beaty has to get at least until he is playing with a full complement before we can truly evaluate him. You can’t compete in a power 5 conference with D2 scholarship levels.

  • Mangino finished with a winning record in 2 of his 8 years. The man still had a losing record against FBS level competition and never had a signature win in Big 12 play. His 2008 Missouri win was his best win in conference play. He was 3-15 against ranked teams. Mangino had 1 season where he caught all the breaks. There’s a reason why other schools weren’t banging down the door for Mangino like every other time KU has had a winning coach in its history.

    That Orange Bowl season was a blessing and a curse. It was great to experience that season, but it also set an unrealistic standard of success. At the end of the day, Mangino was a slightly above average coach who had 1 fluke season.

  • @justanotherfan This is why Beaty has to have his 5 seasons. Even if the W-L doesn’t improve, keep him around to get the scholarship numbers back in line. Firing him now does nothing but reset the clock on the scholarship numbers, destroys any chamce of keeping the two top Louisiana prospects, and put the next coach behind the 8-ball because he’s focused on finding enough players to field a team and keep healthy instead of developing those players.

    Take the short term losses to increase the odds of long term gains in the future.

  • The job is Beatty’s till the end of his fifth year, or KU moves to the Big Ten, which ever comes first.

  • I don’t care what the excuses are 3rd year starters getting embarrassed and looking lost week after week. Beaty may go down as the worse college coach in history when he’s done here. @Kcmatt7 absolutely no way is Snyder a top 10 all time coach. One major bowl win and two conference titles in nearly 30 years to go with a .63 win percentage, that gets you fired at a good chunk of schools. @Texas-Hawk-10 Mangino had 3 winning seasons of the 8 he was here and probably would’ve had 4 had sweet Lou not started the witch hunt. I wish we were anywhere near as competitive as those years.

  • @kjayhawks believe what you want without any context or logic.

    KSU history w/o Snyder - .346 Snyder - .657

    Go find me a coach who has coached that far above their programs history for an extended period of time.

  • @Kcmatt7 I’m sorry but you have to have more on resume to be a top ten coach. By those standards an argument could be made that Art Briles is a top 10 coach because Baylor sucked before he was there and really same for Mangino here.

  • kjayhawks said:

    @Kcmatt7 I’m sorry but you have to have more on resume to be a top ten coach. By those standards an argument could be made that Art Briles is a top 10 coach because Baylor sucked before he was there and really same for Mangino here.

    False equivalency. He has done what they did, for over 20 years. Without recruiting thugs or abusing players. Without losing the lockerroom. Without cheating. Without being anything but a boy scout.

    And that is fine if you don’t think he is a top 10 coach of all-time. You don’t have to. But to make the argument that he even compares to Briles or Mangino in any way is a joke. It isn’t even worth having a conversation if you aren’t at least going to open your mind a little bit.

    Is he top 25? Do you think he could have had a better winning percentage than he currently has if he were coaching at OU or UT instead of at KSU?

  • I don’t think KU can do what Snyder did at KSU because KU actually has some history in football. As @Kcmatt7 said, KSU without Snyder wins about one third of their games (welcome to 4-8 every year). When that’s your history, winning 7-8 games a year is cause for celebration.

    KU has had on and off success throughout its history. Never consistent, but some success. That means the expectation is always going to be higher at KU than it will be at KSU because KSU has no history. They just have Snyder. KSU had never finished a year ranked prior to 1993. KU was ranked in the final poll in 1947, 1960, 1968, and 1973. That’s not a long line of history, but again, KU didn’t exactly suck the entire time. KU still has a higher all time winning percentage than KSU, even though KSU has been the better program for most of the last 25 years. That’s how bad KSU was pre-Snyder, and likely how bad KSU will become post Snyder.

    KU just has to find a coach that wants to stay at Kansas after they start succeeding. Maybe that’s Beaty (maybe not). But he needs time to at least level the playing field again.

  • @Kcmatt7 I probably jumped the gun with Mangino but Briles you could argue is better if you look at his success in a shorter time. Obviously Briles is cheat who let his players do whatever they pleased but let’s not act like Snyder hasn’t had his bad apples, (Brandon Banks high on oxy beating his GF and the kid that just transferred this off season after failing multiple drug tests) let’s not act like he’s perfect. Snyder was also involved with a scandal involving taking extra money from boosters that supposedly went to recruits that just stopped being investigated after he retired the first time. Snyder does the best with less but if he was really the best he could get some athletes in there to get the program to the next level. Part of coaching is recruiting and he has failed at that. KSU is a solid program nothing more and nothing less. Snyder has a horrid record vs top ten teams and a losing road record. I’m not ready to rename the Heisman after him.

  • @kjayhawks Yes, recruiting is apart of the sport. Wouldn’t his well above average winning percentage at a perennially terrible football program pre-Snyder lead one to believe that he does in fact recruit well? Recruiting to Manhattan, KS isn’t quite the easiest thing to do. Hell, we are 2 and a half hours closer to a major airport and a major city and we STILL have a hell of a time recruiting players to KU.

    And Briles is not even close man. He had a .627 at Baylor and your main argument is winning right now. Snyder still has a better record at KSU. And he is doing it in Manhattan freaking Kansas, man. Not Waco, TX.

  • @Kcmatt7 but Art has the same amount of B12 titles is less than a third of the time. I’ll agree to disagree with you but Snyder isn’t in my list of top 10 coach of all time, maybe not even top 25. Most top tier coaches have a winning bowl record or winning record against ranked teams or have at least played for a national title. He doesn’t belong up with Saban and Bryant IMO. Reminds of all the bs I call on KSU fans when they think they are a national power.

  • @kjayhawks Mangino had a losing record against FBS competition, indisputable fact. Mangino was 3-15 against top 25 teams at KU, indisputable fact.

    KU was still losing all those games in 2009 investigation or not. That team quit on Mangino and that is from a player in that team. It also didn’t go that Mangino didn’t have a back up plan for Reesing and kept trotting him out there when Reesing should’ve missed a few games to heal his groin. KU was also going to crater hard in 2010 regardless of who the coach was because KU didn’t have a B12 caliber QB behind Reesing.

  • @Texas-Hawk-10 my source that played on team says completely different. That they had little practice time and spent countless hours meeting with Lew about what was happing around Mangino. It really doesn’t matter, it couldn’t have worked out worse for the football program.

  • @kjayhawks How is what you’re claiming completely different? In those meetings, players didn’t have Mangino’s back. They were giving Perkins all the ammo he needed to fire Mangino. Even without those meetings, there was still a mutiny brewing. All Perkins did was start it a few weeks sooner that without his meddling.

  • @Texas-Hawk-10 my source said the defense was against Mangino and the offense was with him. It really doesn’t matter at this point.

  • @kjayhawks “It really doesn’t matter at this point.”

    If widely adopted, that reasonable type of thinking could kill conversation on most sports forums!

  • KSU has already gotten a taste of what life will be like without Snyder…remember the Ron Prince years?

    I would hire Snyder as HC at KU any time, he is that good.

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