BILL SELF - HALL OF FAME COACH. How do the Bucketeer's feel?
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We looked the other way on a lot of things. We didn’t know the hammer was going to drop how it did, but let’s not rewrite history saying we didn’t know there was risk involved at the time Larry was here.
I didn’t want to open this can of worms… because it goes much deeper than what we got nailed for. Why rehash this stuff?
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At the time, the airplane ticket to Askew was all that we knew and if that that was all, KU would have gotten a slap in the wrist and nothing more. It did violate NCAA rules but I would give him a pass on that. The other things that went on that we did not know, at least I did not, until recently were considerably more serious and apparently KU almost got the death penalty. I would have not agreed with it or given him a pass on that then or now. For a long time I thought that the NCAA shafted KU but now it is clear KU got lucky.
Based on what he did at UCLA and SMU, who both got much greater sanctions than KU, we can safely infer that Larry Brown, as good a coach as he is, he is not a manager that plays by the rules and breaks them freely and let’s someone else pick up the pieces.
As I mentioned before, he is still a great coach but his off the field shenanigans greatly diminish his overall status.
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I was more disturbed when the sanctions came out in October 1988 that the committee explained that the death penalty had been considered, that KU knew it was considered when appearing before the committee, and that the committee was disturbed that KU diminished the violations during the hearing. The committee explained that the dp was not imposed for several reasons, first, the original violations from 1983 were football not basketball. Second, the staff involved in the new violations was no longer at KU. A third reason was that the violations occurred only in a short time in 1986.
So you might not have been as suspicious as me, but I was disgusted. (Maybe it has to do with the fact that my work back then involved people who didn’t take very seriously their compliance obligations.)
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@KUSTEVE “Bill has never been in trouble.”
Not directly, but we did lose a scholarship and a few official visits due to over $5,000 in illicit benefits being provided to then-recruit Darnell by a KU booster, including transportation to an NCAA tourney game and failure to monitor JR Giddens free tickets given to them. KU self-reported the violations and DJ had to sit out 9 games, as well as pay back the benefits.
The tickets were not illegal, but the NCAA said if staff kept better track of who received tickets KU would have known of the relationship with the booster previously.
Bill and Co took responsibility for the problem without acting persecuted, which is Larry’s victimization persona. Had KU not self-reported, a failure to ensure institutional control finding seems possible.
As for Askew’s situation, sure, mitigating circumstances. But it was a clear violation, permission from the NCAA was never sought, the coach was involved, and he had no excuse and no remorse, which almost cost us dearly.
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@mayjay I defended brown for 25 years, until it was apparent his methods were indefensible. I’m still not going to cast aside the achievements of that team, because as far as I am concerned, Calvin, Ron, Danny and company earned their place in KU history.
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If a KState coach Jack Gardner, whom I never heard of, with a resume like this can make the HOF then I have no problem with Bill Self Being in the Hall. National Coach of the Year (1970); three Big Seven titles (Kansas State); five Skyline Conference titles (Utah); coached NABC East-West All-Star (1953, 1960, 1964). There’s all kinds of non championship winning coaches in the HOF like Ray Meyer, Guy Lewis etc.
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Bill Self on Larry Brown: I learned more from him in nine months than I learned from probably everyone else combined.
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@BShark Good read.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@JayHawkFanToo Whether LB did it right or wrong, he did rescue us from the Ted Owens abyss. He gave us a title, and paved the way for the hire of the century … Roy Williams. But the Self way is the far, far better way.
Maybe Bob Fredrickson deserves our kudos? He has my eternal gratitude.
Great call, giving Bob Fredrickson kudos!
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Perfect post to fit in here. I (and others) may sound like we don’t see Larry as a positive. I think all of us in here see Larry as a positive and his stay at Kansas was a positive, and will remain a positive in the future.
Bill surely learned a heck of a lot from Larry. I know he totally respects Larry and holds him in high regards.
Larry should be considered in the Top 5 of all basketball coaches, worldwide, pro and college…
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@drgnslayr @HighEliteMajor Thank you for the reminder of Bob Frederick (no suffix). His leaving in the early 2000’s (“voluntarily” after the fball program did not get better) let Al Bohl in the door, resulting in Roy exiting through that same door. Died in a bicycling accident, 2009. RIP, Bob, and thanks from our Jayhawk hearts.
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Did you rob Bill’s family photo album? Great pic as usual @wrwlumpy
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Imagine going back in time at the time of that photo and telling Bill he would, one day, coach at Kansas as a HOFr!
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@wrwlumpy nice list. Switch out Perry Ellis for Darrell Arthur, since it is such an exclusive list. Cannot leave off Josh Jackson, absolutely the best frosh that Self has ever had, anywhere. Only Joel Embiid is in same category. Josh meant just as much to last year’s team as Frank did.
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@Lulufulu “crazy Shiite”, lol. Some peeps in iran or iraq just took offense…now u dont want to make them mad…
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@Crimsonorblue22 Ha! So much for Self being an Eddie Sutton protege. I think he took elements from Sutton, but learned the most from Larry. Plus, modern rules (not 2008 rules), wont allow the Sutton/Izzo 55pt bruiser ball games. Now its gotta be pretty ball, ala unc-ACC style. We’ll just bring our own 7ft 280 lb wrecking ball, by way of Africa…lets start, then crash this finesse party…
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Guys, you gotta check it out.- - - -Awsome video about Coach Self and his accomplishments as he is about to be inducted to the Hall of fame, on the 247 sports site gotta love it, . - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Self pre-induction NBA network interview.
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Can’t believe all the past players that were there!
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We are very lucky to have a coach like Bill Self. I remember having that feeling that Roy could never replace Larry after he took over the program, and I felt the same way when Bill replaced Roy. But they both did amazing, and we have been on a great streak for a long time.
Here’s a good example of a humble man:
“The Lord has blessed me and my family beyond measure,” Self said. " There is no way an average player from Oklahoma would be standing before you tonight if his handprint wasn’t all over my life. I will never take this honor for granted, and I will be more humble now than ever to occupy an office on Naismith Drive."
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@KUSTEVE AWESOME QUOTE
