Dwindling Big 12 Basketball
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The thing about 5* FR is they typically don’t stick around unless they disappoint relative to expectations. Notable exceptions for kids like Perry who have an NBA deficiency. Give Self mostly 2-4 year 4*s please.
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No, no, you’re talking about the Neo Southwest Conference, not the Big 12/10.
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I didn’t embrace the Transfer U angle at first, but I am warming up to it. 3 3rd year guys inserted into the lineup next year. 3rd year 5 star inserted into the lineup this year. I’ll take those guys over the OADs every time. The last 5 stars that made it to their 3rd year were Perry and Wayne, and that worked out very well for us.
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Also a bit of bird in the hand too. KU is well positioned for 2019 but outside of a few recruits maybe not so much in 2018. Having 4* players on board mitigates the risk. Of course, all you need is a few recruits, so let’s hope the staff closes well.
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It’s interesting to see the Big10 on that list of leagues that are seeing less talent. I think the league is in a down time for coaches. Their most successful coaches of the 2000’s are gone except Izzo. Ryan, Self, Tubby and even Matta seems to have lost his recruiting mojo. I don’t want to include Beihlein on that list because I’ve always thought he wasn’t as good as people thought. Crean sucked, Iowa hasn’t had anyone significant, PSU is a dumpster fire, Rutgers blows, Maryland is ok. But this basketball league that is ‘supposed’ to be dominating the national scene hasn’t won a title since 2000. Sure there’s been lots of teams close, interesting at least to note that Illinois in 05, Michigan in 13 and Wiscy in 15 all were very close but in my view got officiated away from beating ACC teams.
But the talent drop off is real in the Big10. It’s no longer the league of superstars. MSU has kept that up a little bit of course, but really no else has. There’s still good to nearly great teams. But it’s a league that is decidedly trending downward.
But for me it all comes down to KU. OUR talent is still there. OUR amazing coach is still there. OUR chance to win it all every year is still there, and believe me WE will win it again. We’ve been very close the past several years. Led the nations regular season rankings and have been top seeded seemingly every year since we won it all in 2008.
Now could our league be better which might sharpen us for the dance? Maybe. But seemingly SEC teams are in the final 4 every year, and their league doesn’t offer up nightly challenges to sharpen them.
But mark it down, save this post, bookmark it @approxinfinity because I want my props. None of this discussion will matter when KU wins another championship the next year or two. I’m already planning on the celebration.
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@jaybate-1.0 There is a point you brought up which I agree. I guess the way I come across just hits wrong with people. Guess my way isn’t as -can’t even think of a phrase that fits But I agree and have brought it up - -only to pretty much get laced by a few.
My point also my question is pretty much like you said WHY are we missing on so many OAD’S - -5 star? - - what’s wrong? - -why we not able to close?
I’ve had my on theories - -what’s the word? synopsis I’m sure that’s not how it’s spelled - -but know the meaning - - ’ it’s a educated guess" - - Sometimes I think we may get to feeling to good about ourselves on a player and where we stand - -thinking after we have hit him hard and are convinced it’s done he is coming - -then we lose contact fail to stay in touch, - -main while back at the Ranch as is the case in any sport until that name is on the line he remains open bait to the other schools still hounding him, throwing any kind of negative garbage about us to him. - -Him hearing from them - NOTHING from us. hmmmm what’s going on he thinking - why am I not hearing form these guys any more?
I feel sometimes we have multi scholarships and we end up maybe focusing TO MUCH in one a particular player losing sight of another which posses the same athletic ability , so we zero in on the one and in the main time we lose out on the other because he is receving better info and whatever from others - -then the kicker we lose out on the one we have put ALL our focus on. - -So now were screwed we lost BOTH. - Which in turn puts us in a scramble mode and hence the transfers - -de- commits - -& graduate transfers at the last. seems like the last two - -three years this is starting to become an re- occurring scenario.
I just feel that on ALOT of these guys we are JUST NOT FINISHING - -not closing out, getting them to make that commit - -sign early. You got the door open - -your in the house - -your on the couch, close the deal - -stay on these kids - -keep the pressure on, these days you just have to, as competitive as the College recruiting is these days - you blink - -and BAM. - -Not closing, that’s what my gut tell me - -not finishing.
You can come up with all kinds of theories as to why. Shoe companies - - friends - -to stiff of .competition but the bottom line is like you say yes we have missed on quite a few OAD’S. - got a couple but compared with Duke - -UK - - ummm not so much.
I’m sorry but I will go to my death bed and be pushing up lilly’s before you convince me that either one of those schools are that much better then KU. - - People can say OH well they want to go there because of tradition National Championships. - Well HOW did they get those championships in the first place? - -well I’ll tell you where it started - -by recruiting the 5 star to those programs - -being able to close. - I dunno just frustrates me so with that I for sure agree wonder why. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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KUSTEVE said:
I didn’t embrace the Transfer U angle at first, but I am warming up to it. 3 3rd year guys inserted into the lineup next year. 3rd year 5 star inserted into the lineup this year. I’ll take those guys over the OADs every time. The last 5 stars that made it to their 3rd year were Perry and Wayne, and that worked out very well for us.
Bingo!
Cunliffe- 2nd yr 4 star as well.
And the next year, adding 43ppg, 20 rbg, 9 apg, 3 spg, 2.5 bpg among the 3 sit-outs. All a year to bond and practice together on the practice squad… Fans will get over this quickly once they see them all in uniform
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it’s easy to remember the misses and forget the one’s we do get for granted… We are always going to miss on guys, maybe even some we should get. This is 2017 where many of these top kids don’t care about what school they attend anymore
Senior Graham is back - that scared the top PG’s away.
Newman- everyone knows Malik, nobody wanted to compete for his spot.
Vick/Svi/Cunliffe- We got Cunliffe Mid-Semester luckily as insurance for Svi’s pending decision (Sam- Top 40ish kid out of HS). Vick has been a long-range NBA prospect since he step foot on campus. Weren’t getting a OAD wing this cycle with those guys on the roster.
PF- We missed here (Ayton obviously), but went with plan B - OAD Billy Preston… We closed on him.
C- Doke- Everybody knows Doke couldn’t leave so a high ranked C was never going to happen.
Meanwhile we got Garrett, a player so many programs never even saw. Ends up Texas Player of the Year, Top 40ish prospect on most boards. That’s called stealing right there…
Whitman will be solid here, mature game, can score on the block. What’s not to like about a polished post player coming here?
The point is, other then PF we didn’t have a sure-fire open starting spot for these OAD kids. And we still ended up with a OAD at the position anyway. While we missed and the misses are highly public one’s, we still have a great roster lined up for next season…
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BeddieKU23 said:
KUSTEVE said:
I didn’t embrace the Transfer U angle at first, but I am warming up to it. 3 3rd year guys inserted into the lineup next year. 3rd year 5 star inserted into the lineup this year. I’ll take those guys over the OADs every time. The last 5 stars that made it to their 3rd year were Perry and Wayne, and that worked out very well for us.
Bingo!
Cunliffe- 2nd yr 4 star as well.
And the next year, adding 43ppg, 20 rbg, 9 apg, 3 spg, 2.5 bpg among the 3 sit-outs. All a year to bond and practice together on the practice squad… Fans will get over this quickly once they see them all in uniform
What was Self going to do, not fill the roster with talent after missing a few targets?
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@BShark I would classify Dedric as a 5 star, although he was ranked as a 4 star originally.
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KUSTEVE said:
@BShark I would classify Dedric as a 5 star, although he was ranked as a 4 star originally.
In terms of his impact definitely. He will likely be more productive than any 2018 post KU could realistically add.
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BShark said:
KUSTEVE said:
@BShark I would classify Dedric as a 5 star, although he was ranked as a 4 star originally.
In terms of his impact definitely. He will likely be more productive than any 2018 post KU could realistically add.
I think we can say that’s a fact Jack. Who knows the last time a Elite program was able to gain a 20 & 10 guy with NBA potential. It might even be true to say its never happened before. Outside of Bagley being some unguard-able phenom in College, your right KU wasn’t going to land someone who could make the impact Dedric will
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Bagley is basically unguardable, but I’ll believe KU is in it if he signs with KU. Arizona or UK seems to be the word.
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In HS yes, but in College its always different. He does look like he will be a man among-st boys wherever he plays. Definitely seems like AZ or Kentucky will be his destination
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True we can’t be 100% on how he will translate. I’d rather have him than not though.
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@jaybate-1-0 Could it be that the embargo is Self-inflicted? Perhaps Bill is fed up with the the whole sordid system and kissing the heiny’s of prima-Donna 17-18 year old OADs. He wants tough guys who are not afraid to compete, work hard, and earn what they get. Maybe he would rather have 2nd or 3rd year guys with some muscle, experience, and time spent into the toughening box who will come in and eat nails for him versus OADs who are protecting the merch and operating at 80% capacity. I want Frank’s and Perry’s and vick’s. Not Selby, Alexander, Oubre, and , yes Wiggins.
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@Fightsongwriter Self loved wiggs, oubre, embiid and josh. Throw in ben Mac. I’m sure doke will be in that group.
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I’m willing to say it’s complicated and there may be several drivers, but…
If it were Self-inflicted, why would they spend so much time recruiting guys they don’t want?
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Did any one else see where Mohamed Bamba committed to UT?
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@wissox Good post! It reminds me also of some good fortune also needed. Imagine if we were playing Oregon with Udoka giving us 15-20min in that game? What if Bragg never fell thru the floor this season? We had no post game, other than a smoke & mirrors version (interpret: carefully orchestrated, what we could and could not do with Lucas). But we got exposed in the Dance. Self’s greatness got us that far, but a fundamentally flawed team will get exposed in the Dance, most of the time.
2008 Jayhawks had no weaknesses. But still almost got felled by a bad shooting night vs Davidson. Or even to Memphis.
2012 had no depth, and were slow starting team, comeback kids, and that caught up with them. They likely would have beat any other team than KY.
My biggest focus is trying to understand where each KU team is at as they head into the big Dance. We have to be honest with ourselves about our own team, all the while of course still hoping that we get some luck and some breaks to go all the way and win it all, regardless of what a team’s defects may be in any given year. Because we are a 1- or 2-seed almost every year, I gotta think we will get our lucky run, just about any year now…!
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@Statmachine We definitely did! I hope Shaka can keep the studs rolling through. Big XII needs him to.
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Shaka still has a lot to prove in the conference. So a 1yr freshman center leaves TX for the pros, now to be replaced with another 1yr freshman center. How has balance changed?
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JhwkrRedLegs said:
Shaka still has a lot to prove in the conference. So a 1yr freshman center leaves TX for the pros, now to be replaced with another 1yr freshman center. How has balance changed?
Nothing has changed. Texas will be middle of the pack probably.
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Bamba is supposed to be an upgrade over Allen who was a very good player for the Longhorns. It will really depend on whether Andrew Jones returns and how well Matt Coleman develops. Texas has two other top 100 bigs coming so the front line is covered so the key will be the play of the guards.
Texas will probably have the most talent in the conference after KU and any thing short of a top 3 finish will be an underachievement, which I think Smart will manage to do one more time.
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I’m not high on Coleman, esp as a frosh.
Jones returning would definitely put them in should finish top 3 territory.
Shaka is definitely bringing in a lot of talent but like you I don’t think he will do great with it.
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@JayHawkFanToo It all depends on their guard play. They had a stout front line last year, but still finished with their worst record in decades. Their guard play was terrible last year.
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Andrew Jones of Texas is returning to school. Big for them.
Jevon Carter also returning for West Virginia. Forgot he even entered the draft.
Now only if KU could get good news from Svi with the same type of situation.
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@BeddieKU23 I just don’t see who would draft him at this point. He can’t shoot in games. He has average to poor measurables.
His best option is to come back to school and shoot 50+% from trey. Prove that he has the floor of a 3-point role guy with some potential upside as he is a 6’7 shooting guard who can be a a mismatch against smaller 2’s if he can ever learn to finish in the lane efficiently.
I think Svi still has the potential to be the shooting guard version of a guy like Chandler Parsons. No uber-athlete, but athetic enough and a good enough shooter to set up the drive. Finishing in the lane is key though.
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I would assume you were talking about Jones right?
Looked pretty darn good against KU last season. Lots of reasons to think he’ll flourish with another season, and he did get better as the season went on. Was in double figures in all but 4 Big-12 games. He’s easily their go-to on offense this year
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Andrew Jones had a slow start but got a lot better as the season went by. No question he will be the leader of the team; great news for Texas. Now that hey have all the players, if they could only get a coach…
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Texas has emerged as a contender for Brian Bowen, the highest rated player left unsigned. Jeez
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MJ Walker announces tomm, could be anyone although it seems Virginia Tech has the most recent momentum.
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Texas figured out they spent so much on a coach, might as well spend some money on the players…
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Yeah this one surprises me. Bowen doesn’t care where he plays as long as he can go somewhere for 8 months
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@BeddieKU23 Good. Big XII needs it. Hope Texas has a great season.
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Will be interesting to see if KU gets involved after tomm if svi stays in the draft
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@BeddieKU23 I would have thought that we were out of the running, but if new guys are getting involved I don’t see why we wouldn’t throw our hat in the ring at least.
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Just thinking that we can’t let that scholarship go to waste. We have recruited him previously, he’d be in the rotation if not fighting to be a starter. Great size, shooting ability etc for the wing spot. If we wanted to get someone of similar ability to Svi he’s the only one left…
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@BeddieKU23 It would be one hell of a steal this late in the recruiting season.
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You can go back and see that I have said it all along UT will be our biggest competitor in the very near future!
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Statmachine said:
You can go back and see that I have said it all along UT will be our biggest competitor in the very near future!
Nope. Shaka is still their HC. He is a schmuck.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Texas has emerged as a contender for Brian Bowen, the highest rated player left unsigned. Jeez
If they get him and with Jones coming back, I can’t wait for the media to predict UT to win the conference.
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MJ Walker ended up at FSU… All that time to end up where he originally was thought to be going
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BeddieKU23 said:
MJ Walker ended up at FSU… All that time to end up where he originally was thought to be going
Just lol. He could have done this in 2016.
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
MJ Walker ended up at FSU… All that time to end up where he originally was thought to be going
Just lol. He could have done this in 2016.
That’s so 2016. Kids need the limelight
