JOE DOOLEY MENTIONED AS TOM CREANS REPLACEMENT!
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Wait, who has said he is a bad coach?
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Of course I realize Indiana is a top program.
All I was saying is that Marshall has a lot to consider, including quality of life issues. He’s a family man so he can’t just run off only for his own ambition.
He is 10-times the coach of Shaka Smart… but they both have a similar style of playing the underdog card… and making a career off of it.
I don’t think Shaka’s underdog style is ever going to work at Texas. The very last thing Longhorns wants to hear is that they are underdogs!
So why will the underdog card work at Indiana? Since when does that school see themselves as zeroes in the basketball world?
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Yes, it was a leaked video someone recorded at a booster event where comments were supposed to be off the record.
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I will not name names but you can read some of the comments above.
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Everyone in here knows I want to play WSU every year. Marshall has made them a force and they play a style that always gets us in trouble in March.
But the real reason I want to play is to start a real rivalry. KSU just isn’t it.
I look at the UK/UL rivalry with envy. I know we may not be able to match that, but who says we have to? I think it does a lot for our program to have a real rivalry and that is a naturally forming rivalry. These schools just don’t like each other, period!
Don’t want to open a can of worms… but maybe I did anyways!
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
Again, he is the coach at Wichita State and it is his job to promote the program…I am curious, what exactly would you expect him to say instead?
This is the comment I’m responding to which has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the man is a good coach. You asked if there was another way he could promote WSU, and the evidence being presented at that point was in regrads to Marshall trying to restart the KU series so that’s the example I went with.
All my point was is that the way Marshall is trying to restart that series by being a disrespectful dick to KU on the issue to try and bully Self into scheduling a series has no chance of working and KU not even interested in listening. All I did was provide an example of how Marshall could’ve taken a more respectful approach and that probably at least gets a meeting to explore the possibility of restarting the series.
Notice how nowhere in any of my posts did I say that approach would be guaranteed to restart the series, just that approach would probably make KU at least willing to listen.
How you spun me calling Marshall a dick into meaning he’s a bad coach is something I can’t figure out because my opinion of Marshall has nothing to do with the discussion.
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@drgnslayr Marshall doesn’t play the underdog card at WSU, he plays the disrespected, chip on his shoulder card which works anywhere.
We’ve talked about that in regards to KU on multiple occasions, including this year with all the media attention and KCStar witch hunt.
The mentality Marshall has taken is not the underdog card.
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@JayHawkFanToo nope it was after they got home from winning the nit and they were celebrating in Koch arena.
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Okay… I’m fine with your refined definition of Marshall’s tactics.
Does the “disrespected chip on his shoulder” work at Indiana? Do the fans and players at Indiana feel disrespected?
I’m skeptical about most “chip” strategies at big schools. Heck… I’ve been screaming for years here at Kansas that we need a chip and can’t get one. I feel certain that if we could use a chip, then Bill would figure out how to do it.
Indiana basketball players are not only Gods at their school, but throughout the state of Indiana. I don’t see a way of turning them into feeling victimized.
I say that after years of trying to force a chip at Kansas. Years…
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I was replying in general terms and based on the tenor of the thread. I did not mean to imply you personally called him a…Brannen Greene move.
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Yep, Knight’s assistant took his guys once, and Crean had a good team for 1-2 years, and Sampson even gathered some guys if I recall correctly.
IU would be a good program to build, if the fans would ever recognize the Shoe wars recruiting constraints. A coach can have occasional deep threats there with adidas, same as Self at KU and Pitino at Ville, but the Knight loyalists MIGHT NOT even settle for what KU and Ville fans have.settled for.
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I saw that tape but never heard him say “chicken hawk.” Does anyone have a copy where he clearly says it? I’d like to see it.
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Why are we even talking about Marshall? Don’t we have better things to talk…like the upcoming game in less than 2 hours.
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@drgnslayr I don’t know, I saw it live though. He was muttering. Texas wouldn’t interview him. I heard a long time ago, before the chicken hawk incident, from an ast d-1 coach that Gregg Marshall was not highly thought of from other coaches. It had nothing to do w/coaching. I really don’t care whether you like him or not. I don’t.
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@drgnslayr I have a feeling Marshall would have no problem playing the arrogant we’re vetter than you card at Indiana if he were to go there which would play into their alumni mentality as well.
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I think board rats are confusing hatred of disrespectful, bottom dealing, kick you when you’re down jerks with coaching excellence.
I think Rat face, Cal, Jay Wrong and Marsha and Stumpy are very good coaches, when on a Nike teat and getting a favorable whistle. But none of them could out coach Self, Pitino, and Bo Ryan (when he was still coaching) even up. Hell, Cal couldn’t even beat Self with a bunch of ringers in 2008 and barely sneaked by with 6 OADs and Self without a McD in 2012.
I hate the coaches above because they are jerks exploiting unfair advantages and engaging preemptively in dirty play on a frequent basis. Well, Cal doesn’t play dirty. He just recruits slimy. And Jay? Well, he’s just a jerk to opposing coaches and players.
Well, I really don’t hate them, but I have a clinically strong dislike of them.
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A lot of the so called shoe wars are based on comment made by Pitino, but taken grossly out of context, when you read the entire comments and not one sentence in isolation.
I believe I posted the entire statement for your benefit before and Pitino clearly and explicitly says that shoe brands are a non factor.
The great Willie Mosconi is quoted as saying…a good pool player with a broom stick will beat an average player with a Balabushka…likewise in basketball…a great coach with good players on Chuck Taylors will beat an average coach with better players on Nikes…up to a point, of course.
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I recall you posting it. And I recall being glad you posted it. And I recall interpreting it 180° opposite of how you interpreted it. I still do. Pitino appeared to be commenting with bitter irony. You took him literally. Regardless, I fail to grasp how someone that watched the three Adidas coaches I have listed recruited and compared it with the way the Nike coaches mentioned recruited since 2008 could without tongue probing deep in cheek infer that there appears to be symmetry in recruited talent distribution independent of shoe brand.
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I see your point. And Indiana has been irrelevant for so long now.
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I heard the same thing. I do respect Marshall for building good teams… but that doesn’t mean I have to like him.
I guess Marshall never feels comfortable. He’s like those little dogs that constantly pant and fidget around. He carries such a personal chip all the time, it must be hard to have normal moments with him.
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That is not my recollection. I recall you agreeing that when you read the entire statement the context is different than whe reading the one sentence that was the gist of the shoe influence argument in isolation. Of course this does not fit your ongoing shoe war narrative so I really don’t expect you to remember it any other way.
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First, it appears already time to call bull biscuits on “on-going narratives”, same as it came time for calling bull biscuits on “conspiracy theory”.
“On-going narratives” is for suckers, same as “conspiracy theories.”
I reject all “on-going narratives,” unless scientifically proven as empirically verified fact at a 95% confidence interval. I’ve had it with tolerance about these kinds of weaponizations of language.
Further, I reject all “on-going narratives” attributed to me, since I know my own thoughts and can assert unequivocally that I intend to proffer no “on-going narratives.” Zero. Zip.
I offer hypotheses occasionally and discuss data points and possibly related situations, if and when they arise. I also speculate, opine, do comedy, analyze a little and generally kibitz with board rats. I proffer no “on-going narratives” unless everything one posts were considered “an on-going narrative.” I am quite unplanned about my own future content here. I haven’t a clue what i might write tomorrow, so I know I am not crafting an “on-going narrative,” intentionally. And if it’s occurring randomly, well, then time and randomness will fix that.
So, to reiterate: “On-going narratives” is for suckers.
And as an aside, isn’t “on-going narrative” a trendy rhetorical device (meme?) of fake news; i.e., a vernacular of purveyors of disinformation? You don’t want to be lumped with that group of mind copulators. Heck, I may have thoughtlessly used the term once or twice, too. But I’m going cold turkey on it now that I see how it appears to be tending to be used recently.
Next. Hmm. You appear to mean that your recollection differs from my recollection about what it appeared to you that I once appeared to you to believe.
Hmmm again.
If you are going to claim you recollect what I meant in my mind more accurately than I do, then I don’t see how you can expect to be taken seriously by me, or anyone else. It’s tough enough for me to figure out what I mean sometimes. I just don’t know how you could get in my mind and know more what I mean than I do? Unless some one in MK-Ultra in Langley has developed a “retroactive mind meaning” device, I just don’t see how you can persuasively claim to know more what I “meant” than I do.
Similarly, anything I say in the present I have to think I know more what I “mean” than you know what I mean. And vice versa. Capice?
We can debate our positions on issues, but surely we at least still get to insist on what we mean/meant, as a point of departure.
And I reckon we get to change our minds and acknowledge doing so, too, but I am not wittingly trying to change my mind on you, and would happily say so if I were.
I understand my own bungling at communication, or some bungling on your end, could cause you to misunderstand my intended meaning. And I could inaccurately recall what I said. But surely at the end of the day I am more likely to recall what I meant than you are likely to recall what I meant, because, well, because I’m in my head and you’re not and never were. You might even remember my written words more accurately (you a have time or two, but I doubt it in this case), but surely I am still more reliable an indicator as to their intended meaning, than you, regardless.
If A starts an exchange with B and A believes A knows more about what B means in B’s mind, or meant in B’s mind, than B does, that makes conversational exchange futile–and borderline Orwellian.
I consider hypotheses and explore possible data as situations arise and/or thoughts occur to me. I have no grand plan betrayed by “an on-going narrative.”
“On-going narrative” is for suckers.
Rock Chalk!
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@drgnslayr said:
I guess Marshall never feels comfortable. He’s like those little dogs that constantly pant and fidget around. He carries such a personal chip all the time, it must be hard to have normal moments with him.
Remember when he took the College of Charleston job for 24 hours, then decided he would stay at Winthrop? Like Cremins, who did that to the Gamecocks.
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…or Donovan to the Orlando Magic…
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If Stumpy was coaching a NY/NJ school he’d look perfect for an Oliver Stone movie. He just appears out of place in AZ. Marshall is not attractive, doesn’t say complimentary things and we are all superficial to some extent at least subconsciously.
Disliking or not wanting a coach based on personality issues not coaching issues is very human. Weber seems like he’s good at coaching up the talent he has, but he can’t recruit because of his personality.
Bill Self puts off a very likeable vibe. He just seems like someone you can form an instant bond with. Calipari for all our disdain is very likeable as well. I have no idea how Coach K gets a recruit, that smug, arrogant man. But man can he coach and he sure as heck can recruit.
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Look at the kind of recruits K gets. Grayson Allen, his long lost son. HA.
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@BShark His lineups look racist and very hatable. Every year.
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@dylans said:
I have no idea how Coach K gets a recruit, that smug, arrogant man. But man can he coach and he sure as heck can recruit.
Maybe the message is a bit like
I only coach the best (Duke, Olympics, World Games) and don’t bother with the rest. Are you “best” or “rest” ?
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@ParisHawk I didn’t join a frat either, so that doesn’t appeal to me. If it did I’d be a Duke fan. Yuck!
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@dylans Ha! That frat talk tugs me backwards some 55 years or so. I had chosen to be a frat man; then found myself engaged in a bloody fistfight on campus. Fraternity heirarchy invited me to sit for a chat, after which I volunteered to de-pledge and cart my belongings back to an independent dorm. Mutual sighs of relief…
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@JayHawkFanToo … or Altman to the Razorbacks.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Agreed. Respect your take as always, in bball and ftball. Also, I believe Marshall is a few yrs older than Bill Self, nearing 60. He may not be interested in risking getting fired from IU, as Crean just did. His pressure level at WSU is at an enviable “niche” zone.
I have total respect for his coaching both ends of the floor. His teams are motivated to play, 98% of the time. He has good recruits, just cant land MickeyDs. I know he doesnt like KU, but I ignore/tolerate that. His on court product is very good.
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@chriz Marshall. Same on court product/style. Self better recruiter, but if Marshall came to KU, the name would get him better recruits. He can STILL play the disrespect card due to the East Coast media bias. The only issue is wsu fans would be burning ku flags in the streets of wichita if Marshall came to KU, & vandalizing ku cars. Riots. Hooliganism from local yokel deplorables…(lol!)
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@ralster Marshall is the same age as Self (54) so if he takes a top job, it needs to be in the next couple of years. NC State filled their vacancy with the UNC-Wilmington coach and Washington just hired Syracuse’s coach in waiting. I gotta believe at this point that if Indiana can lure Alford home, Marshall is their second choice. If not, next year is supposed to be Jim Boehiem’s final season so Syracuse should be open next year. We also never know when Coach K or Roy will have to retire and with Marshall’s ties to the Carolina region, I’d have to imagine he’d be a coach of interest at both schools if either program goes outside the family to replace those two.
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Wow. You think UNC and Duke would offer Marshall?
So you basically think Marshall is at the very top of college coaches?
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I still have a hard time agreeing with the logic that Marshall could go to an elite school and make his style work.
I just don’t believe he can maintain the chip. That chip he carries not only is his tool in coaching both practices and games… it is a huge part of his recruiting, too. I don’t think his style rubs right with McDs AAs.
WSU is the perfect school for Marshall. They have always been the school with the chip anyways. I remember back when they had Smithson and ended up on probation. I remember one of the charges related to one of their recruits, Ozell Jones (from California) who didn’t own a coat and walked to school in blizzards. Someone saw him freezing and gave him an old used coat. It wasn’t even a booster. That ended up being one of their violations they were crucified on.
Another thing… players at WSU are not treated like Gods. That school doesn’t have the “college feel” (socially). So their players stay a lot more humble.
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@drgnslayr If Duke or UNC are open in the next 2 years and they look outside of Coach K or Roy’s trees, Marshall would be a contender partly because he’s from the Carolina’s. I do picture him fitting in better at Duke than UNC because of his personality.
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@ralster said:
& vandalizing ku cars
Don’t need Marshall coming here or WSU fans for that. We have it covered…
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@drgnslayr I also see a lot of arrogance in Marshall as well so I think he would play up that part of his personality if he were at a major program, especially a Duke type program where that’s a part of their perception.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I don’t think his personality would fit w/alumni. He lacks social skills!
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@Crimsonorblue22 I think it fits much better with Duke than UNC. I know a couple of Duke alums and they are among the most smug and arrogant people I know. I see a lot of that in Marshall as well. I think that’s where a lot of tantums stem from, basically a “how dare you make a bad call against my team” type mentality that fits in perfectly with Duke.
