Vick
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@brooksmd Maybe Self is learning his own lesson by keeping Snacks on staff (who got busted for pot)–>now its come full circle, as players cant take it as seriously, since…well…Snacks is still here.
JeezLouise, Bill Self, there isnt ANY other capable Asst.Coach-with-Chicago-connections in these United States that YOU could hire to be a proper example for impressionable young men? Snacks *played for Self", so the reverse spin could be propagated by 3rd parties that Self has been “soft” on this sort of stuff even prior to 2004? I dont think Bill Self wants this sort of taint on him, or on KU. Maybe Jamari Traylor (from Chicago), who played for Bill Self, could step in and do whatever it is that Snacks officially does as an Asst.Coach?
This whole thing is disgusting–aint “royalty” of nuthin!. Im having a hard time reconciling Snack’s “example”, with what Carlton did. You cannot tell me Bragg may have had a fleeting thought about “what if Self found out”–and then rationalized it away by seeing nothing happened to Snacks. Never mind that Snacks reportedly had to beg and plead to Bill Self to save his job. Snacks, tacitly, shares blame for this.
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I believe in second chances.
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@kjayhawks I’m with you. I was just pointing out the difference. Some on here say, prior to the Vick revelation, that all the goings on with CB would affect recruiting, that mom’s wouldn’t want their sons playing in such a den of depravity. But yet they overlook Snacks. As a parent I could overlook a single player problem, but an assistant coach who is supposed to be a guiding light would make me question.
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@brooksmd not like he was getting hookers for the team or hooking them up w/weed. I’m a forgiving kind of person.
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@ralster good take. @Crimsonorblue22 I agree but how many chances would this count for Carlton? Deal in September, December (not his fault completely but didn’t put himself in a good situation) now the drug charges. If I’m self I tell him this is his last chance and he’s damn lucky to have it. The Vick deal is his first issue tho a bad one, hitting, then kicking a girl. Hopefully no one has a video, for some reason if it isn’t taped it isn’t as bad.
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@brooksmd Coaching is the issue with the Vick sit also. How could HCBS or SZ in fair conscience, NOT suspend LV for violating team rules ?? That’s a horrible picture for me if I’m a parent who’s trusting my son’s future to a staff I also want to trust. IMO but this program’s credibility is taking a major hit on this one
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@Crimsonorblue22 He’s supposed to be a responsible adult setting an example for the young men he recruits.
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@globaljaybird Agreed, but so far what do we really know? Do we really know there wasn’t some form of punishment? Was Vick really sick for those 2 games? I guess because of privacy rules we may never know unless the young lady comes forward and tells her version.
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@kjayhawks cant say for sure he did. If this girls story is true, she would have gone to the police or someone from the university would have reported it.
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@brooksmd ummm I’m one that said it could effect recruiting AND I sure don’t condon our quote unquote recruiter " Snacks - -what kind of an example was he sitting? You shouldn’t overlook EITHER BOTH wrong - -you make bad decisions - -you pay for those decisions - that’s called taking responsibility for your actions - -taking accountability. plain and simple - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@ralster Snacks should of been GONE - -again what kind of example does that set for these young men. - -your surpose to be a mentor - -someone they can look too, talk too, depend on in all area’s sooo Snacks decides to smoke a little pot - - NICE - - REAL NICE. I agree with you , you mean to tell me there are no other recruiters for that area that we could have got? - - ya = - -ok = - - - -ROC CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I keep saying it… the player who is leading the team also polices every player off the court. It is his team.
Heck, I’ve been through this myself playing on teams not even near the level of D1.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I like your forgiving spirit. But this is not as simple as a father or mother giving their child a “second chance”, or “letting” someone who is anonymous keep their job.
There are not only personal level ramifications (what’s our opinion of HCBS for keeping Snacks on staff?), program level ramifications (the already mentioned concern about example being set, precedent being set, “tolerance” being set, questions about program quality if we absolutely must keep such people on staff?), institutional level ramifications (The University of Kansas. Can Snaxx ever look BGrayLittle in the eye? Can she ever take him seriously? Well, this WmsFund alum cannot take him seriously, other than the very serious nature of his job title and supposed role on this coaching staff!). And what about parent’s perceptions? Every Single Year some stupid nonsense out of the program: Giddens knife fight, CJGile hitting a girl, Brady drunkard, (I’ll leave out Tyshawn’s fight with ftball players, as its small potatoes compared to illegal/court stuff), Mario Little’s altercation, Naadir’s non-photogenic act with TheTeacher, ASST COACH guilty on dope–> Self incredulously keeps him…, Vick?, Bragg x 3 (hangin w/nasty “ho” assault case, slammed arm in door, now drug paraphenalia).
So, how many chances we going to give Bragg? On this stage? Many, many, many eyes are watching & judging. This is sooo much more than giving some private person a 2nd chance.
My vote? Make a horrible example out of Bragg, for both on and off court bullschitt–> goner! Then go tell Snacks that we were wrong to keep him, as that doesnt then give us a leg to stand on down the line (no credibility), and unfortunately for him: sack his snackin’totin’butt!
Right the ship, Bill. You just beat KY in Rupp without a good-for-nothing McDAA BUST. Clearly, he does not have the pride nor the work ethic!!! Not worthy of the uniform. And, please, recognize this is a by-product of your being “soft” on Snacks. He played for you once, but he’s clearly not any sort of starter here.
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I want to know why this is coming out now. Who released it?
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@HawkChamp kc star, suppose to be private
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@Crimsonorblue22 no - who at the university?
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@ralster behavioral problems for this team have long since pre dated snacks. Morris twins. sherrons elevator incident. Giddens. Tyshawn. EJ. Brady. Mario Littke. Trying to tie this to snacks is a stretch.
Also an artical that says “Vick probably did this” is bs. Either he did or he didn’t. Provide the evidence of fact or drop it. A character insult like this and saying he "probably did it " is unacceptable in my opinion. If I am missing something that has been Published i apologize. No place in this world for violence and violence against women.
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@Blown also no place for false accusations. The person who falsely accuses should not get off the hook so easy like they sometimes do.
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From twitter
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@Crimsonorblue22 who posted that?
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@HawkChamp can’t remember but this is the ku office that you were asking about, What is the Office of Institutional Opportunity and Access
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Go to bed with a great dream of #13 dancing in my head and waking up the next day to a freakin’ train wreck. What the hell happened? Is this even the same team? The timing of all this stinks. I’m beginning to smell some type of foul play or set up for some insane reason. Can we stop the bleeding and someone please change the channel. I’m going to my happy place until it’s safe to come out into the Wizard of Oz. Damn it…Kansas is the Land of Oz. There’s no place like home, there’s no place like home…clicking heels over and over.
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I seem to remember when this happened w/Bragg, somebody said Vick had problems w/her too. He had to run from her. I think they said he was hiding behind the bed when she came in the room. Can you see that picture? I can. Batshit crazy! You do know who her brother was? Google him.
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The story gets crazier every day…
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This story should be redacted from the media until one shred of fact is proven. 2015 get out of here.
This is like piling on a celeb when things go wrong. The KC Star your a JOKE
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Now, why would this come out 2 days b4 the Baylor game? From 2015? This is a steaming pile of poo. A hit piece.
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Exactly!!
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I am often accused by people I know of being a great moralist, and of being overly harsh in my expectations and judgments of myself and others. I might exceed the speed limit by 8 mph, but I pay every dime of income tax, don’t download pirated movies and broke off a close friendship when he wanted me to lie about an affair. In short, straight and narrow.
But I think y’all are going way overboard in calling this a program that is out of control, or assigning blame to Coach Howard for Bragg’s infractions. This thread really has degenerated into a massive amount of handwringing and old-lady fainting over a few reported incidents that actually only involve two kids currently in the program. Yet we are being referred all the way back to Giles as an indictment of our team? I will take all the success stories in the meantime as an overwhelming counterbalance to that, or to a DUI here or an embarrassing photo there–any and every day of the year.
Zero tolerance policies are being set up everywhere, and good kids are being kicked out of grade schools for having drawn a picture of a gun. I think HCBS has earned the right to decide who works for him and to use his discretion in evaluating character or administering punishment to athletes or staff.
Please note that if Vick was put on probation for something from 16 or so months ago, that could have been with the cooperation of the athletic department. No indication that it hasn’t been successful. Bragg’s stuff is more serious, but hardly reason for anyone to pull the rug out from the coach.
Take a deep breath, everyone. Please!
Of course, if the rape incident involved a player, and if it was known to the staff and ignored like Baylor’s football players, I will retract this post and light the torches myself.
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@mayjay Good stuff,man. I would never watch a pirated movie either…well, maybe a few…ummm…ok,ok, not more than 3 to 5 a week…but that’s it!
BTW, I have some good news to share. ESPN comes out with this:
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@kraken Maaan, this sucks. Why is this just coming up now? two years later?
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@KUSTEVE Did it seem odd to you we are #1 but top visual is of Gonzaga player?
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Today we will hear Bill actually has 3 wives, not 1. He has 7 summer kids that he has not seen in 6 years and owes $7,456 in back child support payments. Both Wives are suing him for payment. Cindy decides to sue the “alleged” wives for slander.
Tomorrow, hours before tip we’ll get word that our water boy is suspended from team operations for inadvertently filling a Gatorade bottle with his afternoon pick me up instead of you know Gatorade. The players are told they must get their own drank on the bench. Tough times.
Thursday, after beating Baylor at home in a hotly contested game, Bill Self will hold a press conference to address both rumors saying “you guys are a bunch of fools gold”.
Friday, the media will take that to heart and release a steamy video of the 2001 team playing a hotly contested game of ping pong in which one of players loses grip of his paddle and inadvertently flies into a window causing a crack. The window was never fixed by the “alleged” offender and a outstanding bill of $254 dollars has been kept in KU record books since under “Unnamed KU player broke window”. A donor attempted to pay for the window to be replaced and a whistle blower reported this infraction to the NCAA causing the powers that be to open an investigation in the KU program. ESPN, has become full on TMZ setting up multiple command centers to investigate all that has happened in the last few weeks at the KU campus.
Saturday, A report starts swirling that Bill Self has enacted Marshall Law and has locked his players in the lockeroom ( the opposite of what Coach K did to his guys). The players are unable to eat before the game causing Devonte Graham to cramp up 6 minutes into the mid-afternoon game. Bill Self’s seldom used son Tyler comes into the game and drains 7 of 8 shots and helps erase a 14 point deficit to Iowa St in the 1st half. He is caught on camera saying “I got this Bill”. Self during the post-game interview, ponders whether his walk-on son should have been playing more saying after the game " I thought we had 5 really good guards but I guess I forgot one".
How impossible is this after the week we’ve seen in the news?
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@Fightsongwriter Baby steps first …
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@KUSTEVE They also have links to Rock Chalk Talk scalding the
.outta HCBS & KU program. Mighty bad national pub right now - mighty bad.
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@BeddieKU23 Clever
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@BeddieKU23 They definitely like to promote “sensationalism” in their copy. But most do in this day & age
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I’m going to toss this out there and I’m sure @jaybate-1.0 would have me tarred an feathered for the conspiracy talk, but …
takes deep breath and adjusts tin foil hat
There are those out there who probably don’t want John Wooden’s legacy tarnished or his “unbeatable” record of consecutive conference titles shared in any way. The fact that we beat big, bad Kentucky at their own place gives us confidence going into the huge Baylor game tomorrow. A win there helps clear the path for another title as long as we take care of our business.
In a post the other day, I wondered about the pressure of the streak on these players and suggested that the media hasn’t even gotten involved yet in their constant coverage of the event. Well, now suddenly there is a hit piece (I presume at this point) about an incident from 2015 regarding Vick and I fear this is only the start of the avalanche. One way or another, the powers that be will try to put an asterisk next to KU’s accomplishment should they take the crown again this year.
Expect much more of this as our wins pile up and the record gets closer within reach.
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@Blown Did you miss that I indeed listed the PRE-Snacks incidents?
You want the Cliff Notes version: I blame Bill Self and his Staff
And let me correct that logic: It is NOT a stretch to try to connect Snacks pothead on staff with now a drug bust of a KU player… Why is that a leap**?** Again, the mere existence on the coaching staff of a joker like Snacks, immediately calls into question the levels of tolerance, precedence, leniency/“softness” for such behavior within the program?
Its a serious set of questions and the buck stops with Bill Self.
We’ve got Frank, Josh, Devonte, LL, Svi playing their asses off…then we have Bragg.
All those in favor of Josh Jackson literally taking Bragg’s 4spot, please say “aye”. AYE
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How is this not confusing for a college age student when the US can’t make up its mind? Mixed message much?
It needs to be 100% clear to these student athletes what the consequences are.
To be clear marijuana has been de-criminalized in Lawrence, but not legalized.
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@dylans I would have to believe that in today’s world the staff makes sure the kids know that Kansas is NOT one of the legal states.
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@brooksmd Not legal, but do they allude to consequences? Pot use on the basketball team is very common, players that haven’t smoked at some point are more rare than most realize.
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Or alcohol use for that matter, most are minors. Alcohol is just as destructive if not more.
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@ralster No, I saw that you listed the pre- Howard incidents. But my comprehension of what you were saying in the post that I replied to was that you’re saying Self’s treatment, or lack of punishment to Howard leads directly to the misbehavior of the players.
A few things to consider: These guys are growing into men in a national spotlight. They are going to make mistakes. I realize you never tried pot or broke any laws, but I bet over 50% of the posters here have broken laws, smoked pot, drank underage…something. We just did not grow up under a spotlight.
Another–when you listen to Self talk about this team, he constantly refers to his team as a family. That is the way he sees it. These are more than just basketball players to him. Self’s number one goal is to make sure the players he recruits are in a better spot to be a father, husband, provider when they leave him. He’s not going to just give up on them after a few incidents. Just like you wouldn’t give up on your family after a few incidents.
Self allows his players & assistants to make mistakes and he gives them second chances. I agree with you the buck stops with Self and he has earned the right to say when the buck does stop. But I just will simply agree to disagree with you that these kids look at Coach Howard and say “well, he got a way with it, so will I”
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@Blown Nice post. Thank you also for using Coach Howard’s name. The continued use of the nickname that is equivalent to calling a member of the KU family “Fatso” is an ongoing burr under my saddle.
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@mayjay I would agree with you with my ku-glasses on (whatever we do within our program is our perogative, & our own business, right?)
But, if you looked at it from a natl perspective, you cant tell me this isnt a blight on KU. Look, we hold ourselves to be a pinnacle/standard-bearer type of program, thus what is deemed acceptable must be able to meet such standards. Ideals, even. And if WE cant live up to it, why are we pretending?
Here’s the double entendre phrase to ponder for today: Superpowers usually dont fall in a day, it takes time. Usually they rot from within.
We’re not talking about the other 300+ Div1 Men’s BBall programs, we’re talking about the very standard that KU itself helped to set.
As fans or alums of this University, doesnt it matter why we have so much pride about it in the first place**?**
So being mindful of that pride & tradition, I have zero pride that we chose to keep a convicted drug offender as an AsstCoach. And zero pride in the behavior & performance of one Carlton Bragg.
As a corollary, let me add that when Self directly told a small group of us in April2015 in a very candid manner that “Naadir had to go, as he was a bad influence on Frank both on & off the court”, my respect for Self went up for him, how could it not? But we can see that each decision of his can have major ramifications.
Bragg’s situation is disturbing on many levels.
And before you call us concerned alums lil’old ladies a-hand-wringin’, you might choose to recall that Self, Frank, Devonte, & Josh ALL called this a distraction/disruption in various media interviews…how is that a good thing?
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@ralster I don’t think this is 3 strikes on Bragg. He has been guilty of poor judgement with who he hangs out with…but he was absolved of wrong doing via the video. I think it is wrong for people to hold this against him as much as some are.
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@mayjay Well said!
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@ralster I never said it wasn’t a distraction. But I just think it is not a Titanic-level disaster. Minor crisis. Same with Coach Howard, who has since his conviction performed quite capably. Didn’t he help bring in Josh? Cannot fault Self for sticking by someone he has known for so long. This wasn’t an assistant coach abusing kids in the shower, or hiring prostitutes, or faking athletes’ schoolwork, or making payoffs. Frankly, your reaction is on the level I would have had if he had provided drugs to the kids. This was much more forgiveable in my book, and I am not a pro-pot advocate.
My worrying right now is reserved for potential major crises that have nothing to do with KU.
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Just one more test for our guys.
I keep saying it… struggle can work for us, too.
It certainly worked in Lexington.
