Reality starting to set



  • WHOOA, guys, you know do I/we fully realize and or grasp what’s taking place at KU? In my wildest imagination did I really ever Seriously think that our line up would play out like it has so far. I mean with the 4 guard or 4 out and 1 in whatever the hell we want to call it, for it to work and work as well as it has - - let me emphasize so far anyways.

    there are times I have sit back and just like whoaaa, jumpin - - gee - - hossa - -fats - -these guys can be down right scary good, I mean holy crap, when you have so many options to score the ball, guys that penetrate and kick out for open three’s - can be lethal. - - does this lock and NCAA title? - - oh hell no, BUT all I’m saying is WOW, I thinks this helps take away from on unproductive interior game – BUT having said that I’m seeing signs of life from Bragg and Lucas maybe baby steps but steps. - - you add Bragg Lucas & Udoka to the equation come conference or middle part of Conference - - look out.

    Come on guys - -I’m trusting your word - -on your honor, tell me HOW MANY OF US thought Frank would be near as offensive productive as he has been at this point? - -Be Honest? – NOT ME, not like this. Makes you fully appreciate him that much more, makes you stop and think just how much we ARE GOING TO MISS him after this year, the kid is a STUD.

    I think this offense has really helped SVI, gives him wide open 3’s gives him that chance to set his feet as they say. - - -Right now I’m pumped - - maybe to much - -but I’m pumped, we are just killing it right now, ya the competition is far from stiff - well last night anyways but still I’m liking what I see - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • No question…they look good. But what happens when we run into bigger teams. Like Baylor? What happens when we run into better teams…like what we saw with IU? Yes…we are playing better now…but the lesser competition is part of that. We need some more time on the court with a traditional 5 and a 4…IMO. I don’t want to be what ISU has been the last few years. Eventually in the tournament we risk getting beat by a bigger team. But I guess the team will be what it evolves into.



  • @jayballer54 To be fair it was UMKC last night. But I agree with you Jayball. I truly believe no other team has the 5 guard elite like KU does. Maybe 3 or 4 but not 5 guys. I also believe that Coach Self will figure the post problems out pretty darn soon.

    Ya’ll remember our talk last year of the "C5’’? Well, we are more like the C4 right now. Lando,Bragg and Doka plus Lightfoot/Coleby on spot duties. Lando seems to be getting better, which bodes well for when then conference starts. Bragg is improving too. He just does dum stuff sometimes and it gets him benched.
    Those guys will be fine.



  • @jayballer54

    I am excited, but…

    The acid test is seeing if they can find ways to win against a good team, when the tray is not going in.

    Indiana’s big man gave them fits.

    Also, what will they do when Frank falls out of “Psi” zone? It is hard to say how good the team is when Frank is playing like a super human. If stays this good all season, this is one awesome team.



  • I think the thing that is standing out right now about this team is the killer instinct. They showed it even in the loss with Indiana, the close win with Duke, and now against these lesser teams, they are just putting them away. The last couple of years they have struggled with that. If this team finds a weakness in the opposition, they wear it out! I think that is the result of a senior and a junior point guard playing in near perfect sync. They are just putting the ball where it needs to go and watching it go through the net. These guys will shoot above 40% from trey all year if their looks are as wide open as they have been recently.



  • @jaybate-1.0 We were 2 for 17 against Dook from 3. Just sayin’…



  • I have to say I love this time of the season… it’s fun to see the team let it rip against lesser foes, and less stressful for many fans (like me haha). I can watch from start to finish without my heart rate going thru the roof. Yes the competition is not really representative of what our boys will face very soon. Plus this is always when our OADS look great… league play is where they usually start to get lost and struggle more against superior teams (although JJ seems to have more fire in his belly than our previous OADS … anyone else notice that ??) We of course will have many nail biters and tough games coming up - gulp :grimacing:



  • @Bosthawk I think you are funny! Totally get it!



  • This team will certainly struggle against really good big men, but let’s look across the country for a second. Indiana has good bigs. Duke does also. Kentucky. UNC to some extent. But what team has both bigs and guards that can match KU? Probably nobody.

    That’s the rub. Yes, we give up a lot inside, particularly if none of the Bragg, Azuibuke, Lucas group is playing well. But most teams are going to struggle to contain our perimeter attack. In fact, teams that traditionally play two big men will likely have to go small at least a little bit to try and defend KU’s four guard attack. KU basically neutralizes traditional big men in the same way that smaller teams in the past have neutralized our post advantage.

    And with the size and athleticism of Jackson, Svi and Vick, teams can’t just abuse us on the glass because we can hold our own there also. Remember, Jackson is rebounding very close to the rate that Perry Ellis did for us. We will be okay inside because most teams simply can’t compete both inside and outside against us.



  • @KUSTEVE

    That was a good sign for sure.

    But Duke was as usual fantastically overrated. I can’t recall if their guys in the paint were first rate big men, and if they had anyone missing from the starting lineup, when we played them.



  • @jaybate-1.0 they were missing Giles, bolden and Tatum and some guy I keep forgetting🤔



  • @Hawk8086 well stated the one thing is like Baylor ya may be bigger for sure BUT they going to have to com out and defend, they play that zone and with the players we have could be a very long night for them - -especially since we have the talent of Josh playing in the middle of that zone. - -we really didn’t paly the 4 guard that exclusive against Indiana, like hasa been stated with Josh playing we still have the ability to defend the glass I think it would be ok. I understand, it was UMKC last night but we have ran through a 4 game stretch now where it’s been lights out - -If it was one game – if it was 2 games but we are on 4 and counting where we have shot the ball really .could be a very interesting season, we shall see - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @KUSTEVE TRUE and yet - - - we still won. Good teams find ways to win even when they struggle ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @justanotherfan I think Kentucky, UNC, Duke - when they are healthy, and then some team we are not even thinking of that is a bad matchup for us…those are whom I worry about.



  • @Hawk8086 I don’t miss all of the “Self is too stuck in his way’s” threads of the last couple of years.



  • @KUSTEVE good point. If we shoot our average, that game is a blowout and we also beat Indiana with an average shooting night.



  • @Hawk8086

    Villanova is still not a good match-up for KU even with KU playing a similar style of play now



  • @wrwlumpy

    Coach Self has taken a huge leap forward this year in being more adaptable. Some of that is due to just not having a dominant post scorer on the roster, to be certain, but I also think the last couple of years of trying to work with Perry, who needed to move around a lot more to be an effective scorer, also has helped.

    If we had the Morris twins on this roster, I am sure we would be throwing the ball inside a lot more, and that would be the right decision. Instead, we have the best backcourt in the country, so we slash and bomb away from the outside. Self has adapted and I think that makes him a leading candidate for coach of the year because this is one of his most impressive coaching jobs because he has had to change his philosophy.



  • @justanotherfan but there was no way he wouldn’t have changed. Still give him the coy



  • @justanotherfan

    When you have two productive and dependable, future NBA starters (Slim and Slam) you play through them. Right now KU has two bigs that are potential NBA prospects, Bragg and Doke, and neither is very productive or dependable so far…so KU can’t really play through them. Lucas, who is an improbable NBA prospect, is a better option but not really a scoring threat.



  • @KUSTEVE You seem to be saying we’ve got the 3 point problem worked out. If so, I’d agree! We’re shooting 56% from 3 the last 4 games. Pretty amazing stat.

    At the same time we’re shooting 53% from the line during the last 4 games. This is a big concern obviously. We beat Indiana if we don’t miss 10 FT’s. We’re still undefeated then, not that it matters too much.

    Jnew was talking on his podcast excellently the offense is operating right now. A bunch of drives and kickouts and swinging the ball back and forth are creating these good looks the guys are getting. It’s really a thing of beauty at times.

    The other night we swung the ball (sorry, I don’t have technical terms for this) through the lane and out to the line and as a soccer coach it could have been a video for how to attack the goal. Drops, using space efficiently, keeping shape. Really fun to watch.



  • @wissox Maybe our guys could scoot back to the 3 point line to shoot free throws…right???LOL…



  • @KUSTEVE

    The FT is heavily skewed by a few players…

    Lightfoot and Young, 0-10

    Doke, 9-23

    Coleby, 2-6

    Svi, 1-4…really? I am not sure which number is more surprising, only 4 attempts or only 1 made…he should be at the line a lot more and shooting 3 times his current average of .250.



  • The FT woe’s are skewed but we are still seeing a huge weakness.

    When Doke goes to the line we pray 1 goes in.

    Jackson with his terrible preparation/form for FT’s is hit or miss. We are going to have to hope that in crunch time his competitiveness makes him a better shooter.

    I’m concerned that in close games FT’s will cost us a game or more. And it won’t be because we miss 5 or 6 at the end of games, it will be because guys are lazy at the line in the first half or when the game doesn’t seem to be at a point where its that big of a deal.



  • Lightfoot is good at drawing fouls and has been to the line often enough in limited playing time but he has wasted lots of additional opportunities by missing the front end of a 1 and 1. He is the one player that needs to stay after practice and take 500 FTs until he gets it right. If he can improve his FT shooting, he could be a significant contributor.



  • I think I could teach the guys a thing or two about FT shooting. It’s all muscle memory. It’s repetitive motion until you’re used to it. I see too many guys who have all kinds of movement in the FT shooting process. A simple flick of the wrist is really all that’s necessary.

    And I should know. I’ve shot FT’s in pressure situations. I was in a church tournament my senior year of HS. Big time. Last game of the quarterfinals, it’s like 11:30 PM on a Friday night, we’re losing by 1 when I get fouled with a second left. The ref walks up to me and says “you better make both or miss both”. I decided to try to make both, made the first, and to his chagrin, missed the 2nd. OT where we won. Ref was pissed. We won the tournament against two inner city churches the following day, big accomplishment for us suburban boys, although we did have a couple of ringers from Cabrini Green who helped out a bit!



  • @KUSTEVE When I see a combined 0-10 from lightfoot and young, I say why not! I think Lightfoot has made a 3 this year too.



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    What’s surprising is Lightfoot’s form looks very good, he’s just putting a little too much juice on it. Just seems to be apart of freshman struggles, I’m sure he’ll be okay in time

    With Doke I can’t even begin to see where that form or action is considered a good thing. He did make a few last game that looked better but as a whole I’m not sure what he’s trying to accomplish when he gets to the line.



  • @BeddieKU23

    Seems like Mitch is pretty jazzed to be at KU. I feel Wade had this issue last year for KSU at times. Sometimes you can have too much adrenaline.



  • @BeddieKU23

    I agree. Doke form is atrocious from the position of his arms and hands to the way he propels the ball. I am surprised the coaching staff did not work with him in the summer and pre-season.



  • @BShark

    Mitch will be good in time, you can see things in limited action that will translate as he gets older/bigger/mature. He can rebound, protect the rim some and he’s very active. I also liked him hedging ball screens- quick. I’ll be shocked if he isn’t one of the teams top players by Senior year.



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    Me too as this isn’t something new about Doke- he was a 30% shooter on the AAU circuit in High School. There is a lot they need to help him with.



  • @BeddieKU23

    Perhaps with Lucas, Coleby and Bragg coming back they thought that, much like Diallo and Alexander, he would not get much playing time.



  • I’m guessing doke has been worked w/on his throws, shooting in general. I betcha lt👟 Shot better in hs. Anybody know?



  • Doke had and still has a lot to work on. The staff was likely more concerned about getting him to try and grasp the plays and such moreso than his FT form. That said it should be worked on as well. Hopefully we see lots of improvement in general with Doke throughout and season and then next year with a full off-season to work.

    @BeddieKU23

    Mitch to me seems like a PF/C in a wing body. Love his effort but I don’t see starter. Depends on recruiting.

    @JayHawkFanToo

    Part of his PT is necessity but I feel like if Bragg and Lucas were playing up to snuff then we would be seeing more 3 out 2 in and Doke would still be getting PT. It’s hard to keep a 7 foot beast off the court.



  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Its as bad as it was in HS, I saw a game this past summer where he tried to bank the 1st attempt in and air-balled the 2nd…He’s already had a bank this year.



  • @BeddieKU23 Lightfoot was bad in hs?



  • @Crimsonorblue22

    That one I’m not sure of. But judging his form so far this year I doubt he was. I just think he’s struggling right now due to lack of PT and being a freshman. So much is thrown his way and he’s not settled yet



  • @Crimsonorblue22

    He shot 64% from the FT and 30% from the 3 in 3 years of HS; he was supposed to have range.



  • @BeddieKU23 this is lt👟



  • @JayHawkFanToo said:

    he was supposed to have range.

    I remembered reading when he committed that he is an undersized center and that shooting was an issue. But great effort kid etc…



  • @BShark

    Fran Fraschilla raved about his athleticism and range; he was supposed to be the more athletic version of Perry Ellis.



  • I think in time we will see that from lt👟



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    Well there is the problem, Fran Fraschilla.



  • @BShark

    Not just him. I should have said Fran Fraschilla among others…

    He really is not bad. His issue is/was with his son playing at OU he developed a bias against KU; I always thought that he wanted to walk on at KU but KU did not want him. Now that he is no longer at OU, maybe Fran will go back to being less of a dick.



  • I just don’t remember that analysis from what I read about Mitch when he committed. Though I am guessing Fran said it on twitter and I do not follow him.

    I should say, I don’t remember the shooter part. I definitely remember the consensus being that he is a solid athlete.



  • @BShark

    By Senior year I think Mitch will have paid his due’s and could earn a starter’s role. He will need to bulk up and expand his game but it could happen. How likely I don’t know but we have to think Self got him for a reason other than rotation player right? Maybe not but guys that bleed KU tend to improve and earn their keep



  • @wrwlumpy Self is too stuck in his ways.

    Feel more at home now.

    Oh wait, you said you didn’t miss it.

    I actually do miss more technical breakdowns of strategy, tactics, and players games that the turmoil generated last year.



  • @jayballer54 said:

    tell me HOW MANY OF US thought Frank would be near as offensive productive as he has been at this point? - -Be Honest?

    I’ve been hollering out for months that Frank is a volume scorer and needs to be less of a PG and more of a scorer. I’ve been saying that Devonte is better equipped to play more of a PG role.

    I’m not surprised at all that Frank is carrying the biggest scoring role on this team.

    But I have been pleasantly surprised just how much he has improved from last year. Really, most of it is his conditioning. He has always been in good shape, but he took it to another level by working his butt off this past summer.

    I think he is improving his future career prospects big time. As of last year, I didn’t see him as having any chance in the league. Now, I think he will get tryouts and I’m pretty sure he will play in d-league next summer with a real shot of making a team. Because of his size, he will have to prove himself far more than other players with more size. What the GMs want to see is can he be effective against talented size. In the very least, I believe he will have very lucrative options abroad.



  • @drgnslayr

    Right there with you, I didn’t see 20 point scorer when looking at this years team and what roles guys would have. Mason is playing at a level that I didn’t think we were going to see. Part of it was Coach really didn’t say much about Frank and his improvement this off-season but its noticeable how much work he put into his body and his overall game. He is having fun so far, smiling after big plays enjoying the moment. An absolute joy to watch.


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