Frontline
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well, so let’s hear what’s it going to take to get production out of our front court? As much as it pains me, we are not going to win the NCAA title if we don’t get better point production from our front line. You just can’t expect our guards to carry ALL the way through the Championship.
As mentioned last night multiple times by commentators I mean if you can’t get better production then 10 points out of our 3 frontline guys Lucas, Bragg, Udoka – were in trouble. The defense as we get deeper will adjust as we right now at this point have absolutely no inside threat.
Landen have to say there is no excuse - -coach has said as much - - -Bragg I mean I’m really baffled there, should be getting more - – Udoka, I understand, he is very raw and I feel in time even by conference he is going to be a huge factor for us, BUT it just won’t happen, as good as our guards are we have to have some kind of inside presence, make the other teams play us straight up and not cheat off our bigs.
Was a good game last night - - not great.we jumped out all over them right off the bat, and then I dunno it’s like we became dis-interested or something - - -Coach couldn’t of been happy, but it’s non-con have time to get things straightened out - -got to improve our free throw shooting – -rebounding got to get better- - - and get our to’s reduced - -AND GET HELP from our big’s - - - on to the next guy - -Georgia, gonna need to bring it - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 I spent the offseason worrying about it. Some tried to reassure me. It appears Coleby and Lightfoot aren’t going to contribute much this season so we’re going to have to work with what we’ve got.
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What I noticed was not much effort by our ball handlers to get the ball into the paint to a forward in scoring position. Landen’s only basket came from a nice over the top pass-the kind we’ve used for years. Just one though. I don’t know if it’s because the forwards aren’t getting posted up or if the guards just aren’t looking to drop the pass down low.
Also, the defenses are still playing us like Perry was in the line up: as soon as the ball goes into the paint, at least three defenders attack the ball.
I 'm more disappointed with our defense, than the lack of front court scoring. When the bigs get position and the guards look to get them the ball, our scoring will improve. The ease in which the opponents are scoring frustrates me. But, we’re playing quality opponents early this year, which should help later if we ever get a couple of back to back days for practice. Geez, all games and no practice. How’s this young team supposed to get better.
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Landen has been frustrating. Sure would like to see the guy we saw at the end of the season…solid and at times really good on the defensive end and on the boards. Udoka will get better…you can see his great potential in flashes. Bragg needs to become more consistent. I think he will as he plays more…we’ll see.
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We actually can win the championship without balanced production from the front court. We have the guards and wings that very few teams can match. We have a Wing that only can stop himself (Jackson). If he stays out of foul trouble he’ll have more nights like he did last night.
Last Night Jackson had 22, Mason 20, Graham 16 & Svi 15. Those are the kind of stat lines that can win any game in the tournament.
Bragg had a bad game but we know we can get 10-12 points a game out of him.
As much as it worries me that we don’t have great balance right now, something will change over the coming months and Self will find a way to make it work
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Out of the 3…Landen is actually playing pretty well in my perspective. His points aren’t up and his rebounds will be a steady 5; however, he is doing well at several aspects of the game.
Defense: He is slowing down the post moves and not getting beat. I believe several of the up and unders he has allowed should have been called for walks…but didn’t. He has embraced the straight up rim protection and is changing shots.
Offense:
He is setting good, wide screens allowing for the guards to meander thru the court and find the open shot.
He is getting his fair share of tip outs when he can’t secure the rebound without fouling. Most importantly, he is the only one who is sealing off the inside when Frank, Jackson, or Devonte is driving. There is reason why they are getting to the rim so easily, and it is Landen turning his hips and sealing his guy for a clear path to the basket.Bragg: He’s got some Cheick-itis in him or something. He seems lost on the court and it seems like Lucas is always pointing him where to go. He can’t seal his man on the post entrance pass. Granted his 15’ shot is good as always…but the dude is 6’10". Play the 3 point shooting contest in the NBA…at KU, I wish he would embrace the post. He seems reluctant to do that.
Udoka: Has no left hand. Soon the teams will catch on to this. He can’t dribble. He has one power dribble and it better be a dunk, right handed baby hook, or immediate kick out or it’s a travel or the ball is bouncing at the free throw line. Also, it’s only a matter of time, before teams implement the hack a shaq…or in this case a poke a Doke and send the dude to the line. This will be a major liability in conference and tourney time unless he figures out how to get an arc on the shot and he’s merely 15’ away as opposed to launching a 95mph shot at it. Defensively, he is maintaining his ground but is way over matched in many instances. While he has lost 40 some pounds, he reminds me of a good 6th grade fight…he has a good 30 second terror attack and goes balls out and makes a difference…but after that, he needs a break. Duke was a great example of this when in between 2 TV timeouts, he was simply gassed.
It’s terribly early in the season to give up on anybody of course…but, when comparing the three…Landen is far ahead of both of them. Regarding the production, none of them will have Perry numbers stand alone. KU will ultimately go to the standard 4 guard rotation and Lucas, Doke, and Bragg will be relegated to the composite 3. Looking at it like that…they are averaging 18.1 points and 17.1 boards at 53 minutes/game. 40 minute average of 13.6 points and 12.9 boards per game.
From the big position… I’ll take it.
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As a Follow up I do think we’ll see the front line improve.
We know Lucas isn’t this bad.
Bragg is adjusting to playing big minutes and being asked to do things he didn’t have to last year. His transition to consistency is not there yet but we’ve seen plenty of flashes.
Doke is exactly as advertised, a big body with a long ways to go. Again some very good moments we’ve seen from him especially rebounding the ball and altering shots.
Saying all that we knew all along our front court was not the strength. Right now it looks like a glaring weakness and it is. But the key to this team is perimeter scoring and that is an adjustment for the coaches and fans to accept. We go as far as the guards and wings can take us.
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A few things of note here.
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UAB has a legit front line. That’s a quality group they have up front - athletic, skilled, strong, experienced.
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KU’s frontline is basically parts of that split between different players. Lucas is strong and experienced, but not athletic or particularly skilled as a ball handler/passer/shooter. Bragg is athletic and skilled, but not experienced or particularly strong. Azuibuke is strong and athletic, but neither skilled nor experienced.
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KU’s best players all play on the perimeter - Mason, Graham, Jackson, Svi, maybe even Vick. There’s an argument to be made that those are KU’s best five players. That’s not any disrespect to our big men. But Jackson and Svi are quite possibly KU’s two most well rounded players, and Mason and Graham are almost certainly KU’s two most indispensable players.
I say all of that to say this - there will be games like last night because KU’s best players are not up front, and a good, experienced front line is going to hold our front line down more often than not, but it simply may not matter because our perimeter group is just so good. There’s a chance all five guys getting perimeter minutes on this team could play a decade in the NBA (yes, I am including Vick). You would be hard pressed to find another team in the country that could legitimately say that all of their perimeter guys have a shot at the NBA at some point.
This is a situation worth monitoring, but not worth freaking out about at this point. KU beat a likely NCAA tournament team (and midmajor conference champ contender) by 20 points with basically no production from its front line.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
We actually can win the championship without balanced production from the front court. We have the guards and wings that very few teams can match. We have a Wing that only can stop himself (Jackson). If he stays out of foul trouble he’ll have more nights like he did last night.
Last Night Jackson had 22, Mason 20, Graham 16 & Svi 15. Those are the kind of stat lines that can win any game in the tournament.
Bragg had a bad game but we know we can get 10-12 points a game out of him.
As much as it worries me that we don’t have great balance right now, something will change over the coming months and Self will find a way to make it work
Nailed it.
We’ve been spoiled with front courts lately. What we see now is a more typical college front court.
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I think we took a good first step in improving our post scoring last night.
How?
By the fact that we finally shot a respectable % from trey.
The way to help our bigs score is to push the defense out to guard the trey line.
Look at Landen. He has had more trouble scoring this year over last year. And he has worked on his post scoring. But… he is being double and triple teamed… something he didn’t have to face last year. Part of that is because Perry is gone, so the defensive focus is spread to other players.
But a big part of our issues have come by not forcing teams to guard the trey line.
We will never score well in the post if we can’t also be a threat from the perimeter. It just isn’t going to happen with these guys. We don’t have a polished Olajuwon in the post. At least… not yet! (hint)
But my hat is off to Landen last night. Did you see the move where he was fed in the post and he had ZERO DELAY and just made it a continuation on his shot? We need more of that! Bravo, Landen!
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@drgnslayr I agree. Things are not as bad as some make it out to be. Look at what is happening to Oregon. We played poorly against Indiana (a legit top five team) and were in a position to win. We started off in a similar slow fashion last year and look how good the team was at the end.
Since Landon is getting more attention than last year, that means everyone else has to position themselves better. When he gets double teamed, someone is open. Part of that is on Carlton - he has to look to get in a shooting position once Landon finds him. BTW, I really don’t know why we aren’t doing more to get Carlton involved in pick and pops. Perry thrived off of that last year.
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@BShark the only thing that we need out of Landon, Carlton and Dok is solid D and rebounding. Look at Villanova last year: the Arch, Jenkins, Booth, Brunson and Hart. Those guys carried the load. Yes, Ochefu was solid, but he was and is not Jahil Okafor, Anthony Davis or Joel Embiid. It was their guards that made that championship possible.
Our three big guys are at no disadvantage when compared to any other team, unless you think 6’10 245 is frail and weak. They need to get their heads in the game, have a little pride and do the fundamentals. Simple as that.
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“BTW, I really don’t know why we aren’t doing more to get Carlton involved in pick and pops. Perry thrived off of that last year.”
I hear you on that! Carlton could become the best pick and pop/roll guy we’ve ever had!
It just takes time to get more things installed in the offense. I expect to see many changes during Christmas.
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I haven’t really seen Bragg green-light himself for shooting the pick and pops. He often gets the ball around the perimeter and immediately is in motion to pass it. When the ball does swing back to him and he’s wide open he’s taken the shot and made a good % of them from what I remember.
The game is still slowing down for Bragg, I saw 2 instances where he rushed when the ball was given to him last night. One, he caught a pass off guard penetration and lost the handle as he looked like he was going to dunk or lay it in ( I believe this was within the 1st six minutes of the game). The 2nd was a wide open 8 footer where he airmailed it (also first half). Both cases he didn’t look comfortable making a basketball play. He will get there but we have to be patient. He needs confidence in his role
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@BeddieKU23 said:
I haven’t really seen Bragg green-light himself for shooting the pick and pops. He often gets the ball around the perimeter and immediately is in motion to pass it. When the ball does swing back to him and he’s wide open he’s taken the shot and made a good % of them from what I remember.
The game is still slowing down for Bragg, I saw 2 instances where he rushed when the ball was given to him last night. One, he caught a pass off guard penetration and lost the handle as he looked like he was going to dunk or lay it in ( I believe this was within the 1st six minutes of the game). The 2nd was a wide open 8 footer where he airmailed it (also first half). Both cases he didn’t look comfortable making a basketball play. He will get there but we have to be patient. He needs confidence in his role
He also really needs another year in college but his inner circle doesn’t see it that way.
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Absolutely agree. KU has been playing the 4-1 scheme quite a bit later which takes the scoring weight from the bigs some. We are still seeing team double teaming Lucas, something they could not do last season with Perry around because they were actually double teaming him and Lucas took full advantage of that. Sooner rather than later they will have to guard every player or get killed by the unguarded player and we should see much better numbers from Lucas and hopefully Bragg and Udoka.
I would like to see more of Lightfoot. He has a knack for drawing fouls but he also has a knack for not making the free throws, something that needs to be corrected.
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@jayballer54 Yep, its like our bigs regressed instead of improved.
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So Cokley and Lee look like complete studs against GW. Whereas they looked, you know, pretty bad against us.
