Jan 9: Post-game Roundup: KU vs OU
bskeet last edited by bskeet
Selden scores career-high 24 in win; Ellis adds 22, 11 boards
Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self chose Wednesday’s day-of-the-Oklahoma game shoot-around to tell one of his prize freshmen, guard Wayne Selden, to look for his shot more in games. Selden’s career-high 24 points led the Jayhawks in a 90-83 win at Oklahoma.
Oklahoma senior Cameron Clark did all he could to help his Sooners hang with 18th-ranked Kansas on Wednesday night at Lloyd Noble Center. But despite tying a career-high with 32 points on 10-of-18 shooting, Clark and his teammates walked away with a 90-83 loss.
In the first nine minutes Wednesday against Oklahoma, Selden scored 15 points to quickly match his season-high. He went on to net a team-high 24 points and help the Jayhawks find their mojo as they outlasted the Sooners, 90-83, at Lloyd Noble Center.
Joel Embiid’s vision was hindered a bit by the goggles he wore to protect a swollen left eye on Wednesday in Noble Center.
It never pays to give up on a player talented enough to warrant a scholarship offer from Bill Self, Kansas University’s 11th-year basketball coach, because he never gives up on a player who tries to practice what he preaches. The smart ones figure that out. The immature ones play their way to the end of the bench, even out of the program. Put Conner Frankamp in the first group.
KansasComet last edited by
It appears Selden belongs in the starting lineup. Great game, lots of talent on this team.
KirkIsMyHinrich last edited by
Selden and Ellis were studs. Ellis finished with 22 points on a super efficient 6/8 from the field and 10/12 from the line. He also had 11 boards and 0 turnovers. Complete boss last night. Selden was hitting from outside last night, but mostly I just liked his demeanor. He wasn’t hesitating when he got an open look, he shot right away, and he was diving on the floor after balls. The highlight of the game for me was late in the 2nd half when Ellis, Embiid, and Selden were all diving on the floor for the loose ball.
I thought Tharpe played pretty well. I thought Frankamp looked good in the minutes that he had.
Wiggins had a quiet game but I also thought that he was hit with a lot of cheap fouls yesterday. I thought the officiating in general was pretty poor.
Oklahoma looks like the 5th or 6th best team in the Big12 right now so I’m pretty happy with a road win in Norman.
Blown last edited by
I saw a lot of good things last night, but our handling of the rock at closing time is still a big concern to me. Every game that I can recall where we were pressured 3/4 to full court Tharpe has had a hard time getting across the time line. What bothers me even more is he has a knack for stopping just before passing the time line, and tries to pass out of double teams. His size, or lack thereof, and inability to see over the double team is leading to turnovers at a high rate. 5-10 is 5-10, we need something else in those situations.
truehawk93 last edited by truehawk93
Interesitng game and now they seem to be getting the funky funk out of their system simply to play. I love how they played and even seemed to enjoy it a bit. I was really encouraged by CF. But…I’m afraid if he gets a longer defender in his face that speeds his shot, he still struggles. It appears to me (opinion) that CF needs a bit too much time to gather himself, get his feet, legs, and arms in motion for a good shot. He looked really good in the process, but would like to see him get his shot off a bit sooner. I thought it was interesting how Bilas complimented him, but then qualified CF’s shot with the time he had to shoot. “He didn’t have that much time in shoot around…” I think you get Tharpe consistent, keep Ellis healthy, and Selden plays; this team will go far. They have some tough tests ahead.
“It was the confidence my teammates and coaches have in me,” Selden Jr. said of his successful game. “I was out there just playing and not thinking.”
Perry Ellis had 22 points on 6-for-8 shooting and 11 rebounds, helping Kansas shoot 54.7 percent from the field.
“It’s going to be a monster,” Kansas coach Bill Self said.
Enjoy this win guys and then prepare for KSU. One game at a time. It’s tough but these guys are capable of winning and beating any team in the nation. Hopefully this game will be a turn around game going into conference play.
Kip_McSmithers last edited by
@KirkIsMyHinrich : Wiggins had a quiet game but I also thought that he was hit with a lot of cheap fouls yesterday. I thought the officiating in general was pretty poor.
The biggest problem is the inconsistency of the calls from game to game and sometimes half to half.
Kip_McSmithers last edited by
@truehawk93 : prepare for KSU
truehawk93 last edited by
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KUSTEVE last edited by
@Blown I don’t think Naadir is 100%. He is moving gingerly on that ankle. He definitely isn’t planting his feet like he was pre-injury.
truehawk93 last edited by
@Kip_McSmithers Do you get the sense that maybe the officials ‘might’ be focused on Wiggins a bit too much? I don’t want to go there but he has some crazy coincidental calls in the last few games especially. I’d like to think that would be impossible, but we all know the officials are human. I’m going to think not and trust the officials will remain fair as their job requires…cough, cough…seriously, I’m sure they will do their job as they are expected.
wissoxfan83 last edited by
@bskeet What I liked: Selden scoring after the first two minutes of the game.
What I didn’t like: Selden scoring after the first two minutes of the game. I’m holding out hope we’ll get him back for another year or two. More games like last night, probably won’t happen.
What I liked: Scoring seemingly at will.
What I didn’t like: The other team scoring seemingly at will.
What I liked: Connor making some shots.
What I didn’t like: Connor not making some shots in the non-conf portion of the season.
What I liked: My DVR. I didn’t get home til 10:15. I’m never missing a KU game again!
What I didn’t like: My DVR, to get to bed at a decent time I watched it on FF the entire game. You get the general idea of what’s happening.
What I liked: Bill Self’s technical.
What I didn’t like: The call that led to it.
What I liked: Beating OU.
What I didn’t like: Everything having to do with OU. Kruger is a classy guy I guess but my memory of OU in the 80’s and their idiot coach and players lingers 30 years later.
What I liked: Big 12 action…Finally!
truehawk93 last edited by truehawk93
@wissoxfan83 Clark had the game of his life. Either he tanks or OU better hope this is the beginning of a major streak for him this season. I don’t see him having another game with 30+ at all. I think he even surprised himself. He appeared to do whatever he wanted. I think he drove the lane at least 4-5 times and drew “fouls.” The refs really called it close on the OU end. Other than Clark, the rest of OU had an average game. Take out Clark’s incredible scoring night, this game is ugly. Now, can he do it again? KU brings out the best in most every team they play. I saw a lot of attitude from SDSU, especially Sheperd and Spencer all game. I saw them give Wiggins a few ‘get some’ looks. This team needs to develop an aggressive attitude going forward. They need to do what is necessary v. being nice all the time. I wanted this win for the team’s confidence, other than that, I could care less about OU. I do like Krueger and what he’s done at each of his programs. He’s done better than most, like Self, he has taken some average talent and created some competitive teams.
BTW- I heard that Self got a tech, but didn’t see why. What happened? Frannie complimented Self at half-time for getting “T’d” at the right time to fire up the team.
wissoxfan83 last edited by
@truehawk93 There was a call he didn’t like and he spontaneously erupted. With my DVR at FF, Clark looked really fast.
joeloveshawks last edited by
Love the hustle plays. Love the diving on loose balls. Love Selden having a breakout game. Love that we can put up 90 points with Wiggins and Embiid being essentially non-factors. Love that CF gave us nice minutes.
Hate the fact that we continue to play horrific defense. In all my years of watching KU basketball I have never seen so many open shots for the other team. I know that Clark is a great player and that he put up 32 on MSU earlier this year but a lot of his shots were essentially open looks. We played pretty solid defense against SDSU so I know we are capable of elevating our level of D but for the most part this year I have really struggled to not throw my beer through the TV every game due to our defense.
Nice win on the road, though. Rock Chalk.
tis4tim last edited by
I know it’s just one game, but sometimes I swear Bill Self coaches rope-a-dope style.
Despite what my eyes have told me, Self has intimated on occasion that this team does play with heart. I guess I’ve just been waiting for a pulse. Last night I saw some promising blips on the EKG, highlighted by Selden’s best springbok imitation to corral that loose ball. Unbelievable play.
While I’m sure all of you saw it, if you still have the game on DVR, watch it again. Specifically, watch the replay from the midcourt POV. In about three steps Selden goes from one side of the court to the other, seemingly dematerializing through one OU player and rematerializing on top of the ball ahead of another OU player who was just a few inches from the ball after the initial scrum. It’s one of the most amazing hustle plays I’ve seen from a KU player in all my years of watching.
Hopefully a sign of good things to come.
@truehawk93 Clark played well, but I think it’s likely he does that again. That’s the third time this season that he has gone for 30+ (also did that against Michigan State with 32 in a loss and UT-Arlington with 31 in a win). He’s gone over 20 four other times this year. He’s a very good player.
Selden played his best basketball of the year last night. My only criticism of him is that down the stretch, with him having his best game of the year, he made himself easy to guard. His jump shot was working, so OU had to get up on him defensively, and yet he only drove to the basket twice down the stretch. I’d like to see him be even more aggressive. He’s a good enough passer that if he starts attacking the rim things will open up for the rest of the offense.
Perry had a good game last night, but I would like to see him play that way against guys his size. OU sent a bunch of 6-7 guys at him and he owned the paint. He needs to do that against teams that can send guys that are 6-8 and 6-9, too.
Wiggins pulled a no show last night. Most frustrating of all, he did so in a game where he didn’t even seem to be playing as hard as he could have. I know the foul trouble disrupted him, but I would have liked to have seen better overall effort.
Kip_McSmithers last edited by Kip_McSmithers
The three officials (Terry Oglesby, David Hall, and Ray Natili) last night knew Jay Bias was announcing the game. They also know that Bias is gaga over the new rules and he loves to hear himself talk. They’re also aware that John “Handcheck” Adams watches replays of games and is making a list, checking it twice, going to find out who’s naughty and nice. Or something like that. Well this made the three officials call every bat of the eyelash that could have possibly impeded the offensive player. Now the KU guys seeing how the refs from this game compared to sds game (Rick Randall, Gerry Pollard, John “I’m effing Awesome” Higgins) were whistling the new rules they had to adjust back to playing olé D or risk getting fouled up. Unfortunately they were calling it so close last night that even olé D was getting whistled. I liked how at the end when OU was trying to foul they wouldn’t call the slightest touch though. I think it confused Wiggins into that turnover.
TheCoge last edited by
Did anybody else notice the bench on the Joel, Perry and Wayne loose ball play? Wayne dove on the ball and called timeout right in front of the bench. The bench erupted…except for Frank and Brannen who were sitting directly in front of the play. With their reactions, you would have thought they had just been watching grass grow. No response whatsoever when the rest of the bench just exploded after that play. You would think that those two would be two of our more emotional players and no reaction at all. It was disconcerting to watch.
JayDocMD last edited by JayDocMD
Great minds think alike. It was disconcerting and I posted almost the exact same thing on another thread earlier this AM:
“With the multiple replays they showed of Selden diving for that ball in front of the KU bench, I found myself watching the bench players reaction. I wish I had a clip of that to post for everyone to watch as it was very telling. As I recall Black, Traylor, Niko, and Tyler were all very animated and fired up as the team assembled at the bench. Wesley, Lucas, Greene, AW3, and if memory doesn’t fail me Mason (surprisingly) sat there like they were at a funeral. That was pretty disappointing - and to me seems to be an indicator of where these guys heart and head are.”
Now to be fair, I only definitely remember Green and Mason sitting there like bumps on a log.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
I had not thought of that but you theory of having Bilas call the game and the excessive foul calling certainly has merit.
As I posted in another thread if this trio would have called the KU-Georgetown game, every player would have fouled out by half time.
@JayHawkFanToo There is another possibility.
Officials are typically given pregame information. Things to watch for, play situations, etc. It’s possible that they were told that a couple of KU’s recent games got too physical and were implored to clean this game up. Unfortunately, we won’t know that because we will never be privy to the pregame notes they get from the director of officials.
Wiggins play was awful in the 2nd half especially in the last 5 mins. If I remember correctly he had like 3TOs in that stretch. He was having difficulty holding on to the ball.
Why did Self did not bench him? We have seen what happens when other freshmen players make a silly mistake, they warm the bench.
Is Bill Self creating a double standard? I admit that Wiggins was the #1 rate player but after watching the games he needs a lot of work. What is going through minds of Greene, AW3, Lucas, Conner etc when they repeatedly see silly mistakes/TOs from Wiggins but no reaction from their coach?
Is Bill Self afraid of the negative publicity if he were to bench Wiggins? Is he afraid of future OAD recruiting impact?
That may be the case but I feel that Wiggins must not get such a special treatment. His head must come between the shoulders otherwise he needs to be treated like other players. That will only serve him well.
FarSideHawk last edited by
@TheCoge i saw the same. Greene atleast had a minor reaction, half-hearted clap, but Mason showed nothing and it was literallynat his feet. Perhaps ticked at playing time, but I hope they learn to be more involved in the game and back each other up.
As much as Rio complained about his playing time last year, i miss his energy and invisible cereal bowl on the bench this year.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@AsadZ wiggins had 2 to’s for the game. I’m trusting Self on this one. Earlier there were a few times he sat him, so I don’t think he’s treating him differently. I think he’s trying to think to much, he’s 18, some crappy fouls being called on him and I think he wants to be a team guy. For his own sake and the team, I want him to figure this out. He picked Kansas for a reason, and he’s got my respect for that alone!
@truehawk93 I believe that Clark had 30 against Michigan State.
@AsadZ I hear what you are saying. I think there is, to an extent a double standard. Self has sat Wiggins before, though, when other combinations are working better.
JayDocMD last edited by
I miss his energy and invisible cereal bowl on the bench this year.
Just for you @FarSideHawk
wrwlumpy last edited by wrwlumpy
By far, this, is the play of the year.
drgnslayr last edited by
@wrwlumpy - A+!
I totally agree! I’ll take it over our best dunk anyday!
@wrwlumpy I didn’t initially appreciate the amount of ground Selden covered to get to that ball. That’s an incredible effort play. He goes from being nowhere near the play to making the play. I bet Coach Self had that on a running loop in the film session.
@Crimsonorblue22 I have respect for all players who sign with KU, including Merv Lindsy, Anderson, Wesley’s of the world and not just OADs. My point is that Wiggins has no leash which is not good for Wiggins and the whole team. He is on a different planet and needs to be brought back to earth.
His play was atrocious in the 2nd half especially in the last 5 mins, critical time. He kept making stupid mistakes but he was not benched. Could you imagine any other player freshmen getting such a treatment? I have not see it. So why with Wiggins? Because of all the hype he came with, The Next Lebron?