Thoughts from the game- A bittersweet Victory
-
Don’t forget that three of Duke’s best five players were in suits last night. They are very good if they ever get healthy. Giles especially will be a nightmare.
-
I’m starting to wonder if this year’s championship will carry an asterisk… the year the officials decided to reteach a new game.
I’ve been harping about this for several years now. Glad you mentioned Bilas. This is where I rub horns with Jay, who failed beyond his years at Duke strictly because he wasn’t a physical enough player to make it in the league.
Listen to Jay’s coded messaging. The guy should be a politician. On a few calls he sort of stuck up for Kansas, like on Josh’s half court BS call. On Josh’s 5th foul, he didn’t really stick up for the fact that the Duke player sold it to the refs on a night that you could have sold those Eskimo refs a block of ice.
And Jay’s general messaging… that all contact is a foul, and should be called in order to “open up the game” is so much bull snit I can hardly stand to watch the game, even if one of the teams is Kansas. Yes… call the games this tight and eventually the game will open up. Why do we want that? Marketing wonks have determined that more people will watch if the scores are higher. The idea is that viewers want to see offense, not defense. Just ask the NBA how that is working out. So this game would be better if the final score had been 128 to 126? I don’t think so. For me… I would much rather see a tremendous defensive play over a tremendous offensive play any day of the week. The windmill dunks from the free throw line are awesome but not nearly as impressive as the defensive stop where I guy catches up to a break away dunk and disturbs it by just getting there in time.
It was a typical night of having to beat Duke refs along with their team, too. I believe all refs need to watch an educational video just about the nonsense of Duke players faking fouls and whining about every call. It is friggin’ pathetic, and they are cr@pping all over the game just to win, just like Cal does with his recruitment of 12 McDs AAs. BTW: I believe Duke has 8 or 9 McDs AAs on this team, 3 who are injured.
At least I get to enjoy my Christmas this year… meeting with part of my family who graduated from Duke.
-
@justanotherfan who was the 4th member of the quartet, or quads dressed alike that looked just like stepford wives?
-
Well said!
The game is just not called this way in the NBA, not anywhere in the world on any level. I just don’t understand any of this. There is a physical element to the game of basketball that just cannot be taken away and that’s all these ref’s did last night.
If the calls are to be this tight, College should be allowed 6 fouls and the game should go to quarters where fouls reset. This brand of basketball cannot be here for good without changes made to how the game is run. Duke & KU were in the bonus after the first TV time-out. That is just beyond ludicrous
As you said the NCAA wants exciting action. If they want that, adapt the same freaking rules as the NBA and everything will be fine.
Besides everything we won the game and history has proven that coaches and players adapt over time to how the game gets called. But this just seems like the biggest breach from reality especially in the two games KU has played in
-
The fourth guy was Sean Obi. He was there last year, but didn’t play much.
-
@justanotherfan said:
The fourth guy was Sean Obi. He was there last year, but didn’t play much.
Yeah. Once they get everyone healthy Obi isn’t playing anyway.
-
@justanotherfan I’ve actually changed my tune on this. I think Tatum and Giles might not have had much of an impact yesterday.
-
Tatum I don’t think would have. A healthy Giles around the rim would have made some of the drives from Frank and Devonte much more challenging. Plus, Giles is very mobile, so he covers a lot of ground. He’s similar to Anthony Davis in that respect.
Of course, the way the game was officiated, he probably would have had three or four fouls for most of the night anyway, so it’s hard to say he would have been a factor.
-
I thought it was dramatic when JJ lost his cool after the 50/50 ball. Devonte wrapped him up with both arms and yelled in his face “Shut up, shut up!” Afterwards, Bill had a calming discussion with Josh about how to handle bad calls while smiling at him. It reminded me of Marty talking to Derrick Thomas on the sideline after a flagrant. Josh went to the bench still angry. Devonte did the same hug with Frank after the Buddy Hield strip in the first OU game last year. I like Josh’s fire as long as he can stay in the game.
-
One thing nobody mentioned is that Kennard was able to get midrange jumpshots at will around the foul line. I don’t know if that was just a match up thing, but other than a couple rim runs early on, those midrange jumpers was the only reliable penetration Duke had against us. I wonder if his ability to get that shot resulted in a half time adjustment of Self having the guards double down on cutters, leaving wing 3s wide open with Frank trying to close back out.
-
@BeddieKU23 I don’t see any bitter in this victory, only sweet. This early in the season, any negatives from the game are merely learning opportunities. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. And any Duke loss is delicious.
-
I think that was a conscious decision on how to defend Kennard. Not wanting him to get three point looks, KU funneled him into the middle for the pull up. He hit several of those even when challenged, but KU didn’t give up the three. I actually preferred that to giving good looks from three. Duke has too many shooters to give them those shots.
-
@kjayhawks You know like I posted on another thread I think - -if and When Udoka develops any kind of offensive moves - - shot- - like you said - - - - - LOOK OUT I’m thinking maybe , just maybe we end up having him for Three years, it could happen - - -Wishful thinking I guess, really looking forward to see his progression - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
@justanotherfan Saw where some of their fans are talking like Giles might not even play at all this year - - dunnop just what I was reading - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
@jayballer54 said:
@justanotherfan Saw where some of their fans are talking like Giles might not even play at all this year - - dunnop just what I was reading - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
He will play. However, all the schools recruiting him knew the risks. This is a kid that blew out EACH knee in HS in separate years. He is a transcendent talent, but he may never truly get to show it.
-
@approxinfinity said:
One thing nobody mentioned is that Kennard was able to get midrange jumpshots at will around the foul line. I don’t know if that was just a match up thing, but other than a couple rim runs early on, those midrange jumpers was the only reliable penetration Duke had against us. I wonder if his ability to get that shot resulted in a half time adjustment of Self having the guards double down on cutters, leaving wing 3s wide open with Frank trying to close back out.
Self wanted the team to guard the 3 pt line, which they did.
-
@jayballer54 said:
@kjayhawks You know like I posted on another thread I think - -if and When Udoka develops any kind of offensive moves - - shot- - like you said - - - - - LOOK OUT I’m thinking maybe , just maybe we end up having him for Three years, it could happen - - -Wishful thinking I guess, really looking forward to see his progression - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
If Udoka develops offensive moves and becomes a reliable scorer inside, we are talking potential NPOY. Could happen his 3rd or 4th year if he sticks around.
-
@jayballer54 He reminds me of a bigger Trob
-
@justanotherfan agree that the 2s were better than 3s. I wondered about Frank’s second half double downs. Do you.think those were endorsed by Self?
-
Love the discussion everyone. Keep it going.
Wins especially against Duke on the big stage are nothing but positive for this program. Especially after ESPN ran a headline that said College Basketball was Duke & Kentucky and everyone else. Funny, guys maybe they should have waited until today to run that story.
-
I also don’t have a problem with the T on JJ. He was being a d-bag and deserved it. It’s ironic that the T was Bilas’s biggest beef with the officiating. I think Bilas was trying very hard not to complain too much about the officiating since that’s become his reputation.
Loved to see JJ come out in the 2nd half! He’s clearly a 2nd half guy at this point, hopefully because it’s just his first few games and still needs a half to figure things out and let the game slow down a bit. Hopefully it’s not a motivation or mentality issue.
Mason was money, nuff said.
Landen WASN’T money. I love me some Dok.
So the fouls on screens on Mason and JJ, isn’t some contact to be expected on screens? Both guys had their arms extended and whoever ran the quick cuts around the screens basically ran into their arms and initiated the contact, effectively clotheslining themselves. Did both Mason and JJ grab? Or did Duke just sell it well? If it’s the latter, the NCAA needs to look into it.
Other than that, if the refs are going to be this much of a pain, it looks like it’s worth waiting for as it will eventually look more like Big XII ball instead of Big Ten ball. Whatever helps scoring. Skilled, smart, athletic defense is what we’re looking for, not football defense.
They gotta figure out how to call charges though. You shouldn’t be able to draw a foul just because you’re standing up there within a fraction of a second before the offensive player gets there. Guys are getting there at the last second, not even making a play on the ball, and getting bailed out by the rulebook.
-
@BeddieKU23 said:
Love the discussion everyone. Keep it going.
Wins especially against Duke on the big stage are nothing but positive for this program. Especially after ESPN ran a headline that said College Basketball was Duke & Kentucky and everyone else. Funny, guys maybe they should have waited until today to run that story.
Yep. ESPN can taste it.
-
Do we know if Allen properly recovered from his wounded pride yet?
-
They mess with the Charge rule so much I don’t even know what is a charge anymore. No defensive player should be awarded a charge for stepping in front of a player making a basketball play. How many flops did Jeter attempt last night at near 7f tall!!!
And what are charge calls called on guys who freaking pass the ball to someone? Got to be the most pointless call you can make in a game. I think we saw at least 3-4 of those last night. I guess officiating is just called how they see these days
-
@BeddieKU23 said:
They mess with the Charge rule so much I don’t even know what is a charge anymore. No defensive player should be awarded a charge for stepping in front of a player making a basketball play. How many flops did Jeter attempt last night at near 7f tall!!!
And what are charge calls called on guys who freaking pass the ball to someone? Got to be the most pointless call you can make in a game. I think we saw at least 3-4 of those last night. I guess officiating is just called how they see these days
K coaches flopping. Pretty sure he’s gonna call up Manu when he finally retires and get him on the staff as the Professor of Flopping. Maybe he could even get ahold of Vlade Divac.
-
You forgot the father of flopping Marcus Smart who learned from Shane Battier. When I saw Jeter falling to the ground and then crying after I immediately thought he had been watching Shane video’s
-
@BeddieKU23 said:
You forgot the father of flopping Marcus Smart who learned from Shane Battier. When I saw Jeter falling to the ground and then crying after I immediately thought he had been watching Shane video’s
K will be retired by the time Smart is out of the league I think. Unless he perfects some kind of anti-aging technology. Or has clones.
My god Battier…I had forgotten about him lol.
-
@jayballer54 with K making “he has a long future ahead of him” comments, that is indicative that his return this year is in doubt.
-
@BShark because of our upcoming schedule, Dok needs to play at least 20 minutes a game. He just needs more experience to get a feel for how to play around the basket. Self said he has a nice hook shot, so hopefully he’ll be able to show that on Friday.
-
@HawkChamp said:
@BShark because of our upcoming schedule, Dok needs to play at least 20 minutes a game. He just needs more experience to get a feel for how to play around the basket. Self said he has a nice hook shot, so hopefully he’ll be able to show that on Friday.
Agree. Should be able to get him minutes and let Lucas rest up.
-
One other interesting thing from the game is the fact that all the foul trouble didn’t lead to a single minute by Coleby in ether game, which is kinda surprising that he doesn’t play over lightfoot just off of his experience, but i think he may not be 100% yet.
-
@kjayhawks said:
One other interesting thing from the game is the fact that all the foul trouble didn’t lead to a single minute by Coleby in ether game, which is kinda surprising that he doesn’t play over lightfoot just off of his experience, but i think he may not be 100% yet.
Saw it coming from the exhibitions. He is not ready yet and Self doesn’t trust him one bit.
-
@kjayhawks doke comparable to Trob? No way
-
@BShark self said mentally he’s not 100%. He doesn’t trust his knee yet. Probably how Giles will be.
-
@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark self said mentally he’s not 100%. He doesn’t trust his knee yet. Probably how Giles will be.
Yep. It was apparent just from watching tbqh.
-
I heard someone say Giles wouldn’t play college if he could pass Med exam for the NBA. also if he plays in college he could get insurance, like Embiid did.
-
Grayson Allen was crying to the refs so much that even coach K said something about it afterward. That’s bad!
Paraphrasing - he was looking to the refs for calls instead of playing ball.
-
@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@kjayhawks doke comparable to Trob? No way
Not TRob as a junior, but as a freshman? Or even a sophomore? TRob was pretty raw at first. Doke may have even greater potential offensively. Just his massive size, combined with athleticism, could eventually draw comparisons to Shaq - a bold statement, I know, but last night was sure promising.
-
@tundrahok raw yes, like most frosh, but athletically, no way. I don’t know how Shaq was his freshman year, but that makes more sense to me. Trob was a stallion.
-
@tundrahok @Crimsonorblue22 TRob was pretty raw IMO Doka will prob never have his range but could have his dominate nature in the post.
-
Really hard to say if that was the gameplan. It happened multiple times, so I would guess that it was, particularly because Self was not upset with the results. That said, if the double down was a strategic decision, I would like to see Frank double down “big” rather than small.
You will notice that when Frank went to double, rather than having his arms up or out to cut down the passing window, he had his hands down or in front to try and disrupt the ball handler. Knowing that Duke focuses so heavily on drive and kick actions, I think it is a mistake to not double down with arms out to eat up some of the passing lanes, particularly since you’re doubling down on guards that can pass more effectively than a big man.
-
@justanotherfan
I also think that Frank isn’t going to be as disruptive doubling down as a longer defender . Not playing to Frank’s strength which is footspeed and despite a tremendous vertical when you’re jumping out at a shooter rather than up you can’t make up for length
-
@approxinfinity also you’re going to catch fouls as a smaller defender because you try to compensate for height by getting closer to the shooters release point
-
There’s another play where Devonte got whistled when he double down to rip and udoka had the block behind him
-
Random musing: 56-35. The margin after it was 15-6 Duke to get to 62-50 KU. The potential of this team is pretty high.
-
Also why Frank picked up that foul on the corner three because he jumped to contest. A longer defender probably doesn’t get that foul because he just has his hand up.
-
@BeddieKU23 Excellent post! Better than most of the sports journalists out there.
Im gonna start with the bad.
Lando has got to be hurting. I just dont believe he has lost motivation. We are playing a lot of 4 out 1 in, defenses cant sag off our other guys, they can shoot it and drive at will. ( I’ll get to the shooting in a sec ). Lando was a beast on the boards last year, how is it possible for him to regress like he has while healthy? I just dont see it.
Our shooting from 3 and the FT line has been dismal the last two games. It will progress back to the mean %. No way this is a trend but merely a statistical anomaly. Our boys will get a nice break on friday, our first home game of the season. Watch the lid come off. It will happen.
Now the good!
Frank is better than Sherron. There, I said it. Ive been thinking that the two were very similarly made up since Frank’s first season. Now we have proof! Mason is a Pit Bull out there! Defenses cant stay in front on him, they have to foul him or let him make shots. I absolutely agree this is HIS team. We live and die by Frank’s strength, physically and mentally. Not different at all from how Sherron led KU his Senior season. The thing is, I dont think he will have a game like Sherron did against UNI.
JJ, he’ll be a stud. He is a stud. He is better than Oubre, already. He is better than Xav. He isnt as good as Wiggs was, at this point, on offense but he is easily as good defensively. He just needs to calm the F&^% down when he gets nicked with a cheap foul call.
That last one that fouled him out…that was no foul. The other player sold that one big time. It was BS.Doke! Bookie! Udunka if you will. I said it earlier. He is better than Cliff and better than Diallo. Once he figures out how to play and not foul, AND make his FT’s. Other teams got nothing on him. He is huge, massive even! He runs the floor really good and sucks up rebounds better than a giant Hoover. 12 boards!? 4 of them offensive!? All in 18 minutes.
Count on him to start averaging double doubles by mid season or so.Other guys looked great. I didnt notice DG was cramping. Electrolyte imbalances can be tricky to correct. But He played all 40 and didnt have to get stretched out by the trainers during the game. I think thats progress. Hydration and electrolyte tabs for DG until the problem resolves. He’ll be fine.
Our Defense, I thought, Was a stellar improvement from Indiana. That Allen kid, I hate him, but he is real good and we held him to what, 4-17? something like that? sticky defense does that. It was a great team effort.
Now we have a stretch of games that should be cake walks compared to our first two games. It’ll give our youngins a chance to settle in a little bit. Kind of jump out of the fire so to speak. Theyre gonna light it up at home this year.
They havent ran out of the tunnel pre game yet!!Sienna on friday will get them amped for sure.
-
Why does it skip from post 21 to post 80? Wierd!
-
I have to say I like how they are calling things. I was getting tired of prison body right, prison body left, OADs from 3.
This is going to help OADs be much more productive.
Josh might not score at all this season if fouls were called Same as in the MORRI seasons.
-
Udoka is getting exactly what we wanted Diallo and some other freshman bigs to get in the past, playing time. With the lack of big men we have he gets a rare opportunity in Self’s system to play through some mistakes and we will be better for it later in the year when it matters. I remember discussions almost every game about how we would be better off letting Diallo get playing time early so he could be better later, looks like we are getting our wish, just with a different player; in my opinion, a higher ceiling player in Udoka.
