The B12 will not expand in the near future



  • After a meeting of the minds in the conference that lasted 5 hours, the verdit is in the b12 will not be adding any teams. Sounds like it had a lot to do with the tv rights to the conference held by Fox and ESPN. Apparently they dont want to pay anyone out side of the east coast. This conference could very well end up being considered a mid major before too much longer IMO.



  • Looks like we’ve made our bed for awhile, and will just have to sleep in it. Ugh.



  • @kjayhawks wonder what SZ thinks?



  • this conference won’t have to worry about it much longer this sucks and smells in soooo many ways



  • @kjayhawks I thought it was a stupid decision. Im sure it was mostly motivated by $$$. But will I be surprised when the Big 12 gets dissolved and KU moves to one of the more eastern time zone power conferences?

    Regardless what happens to the conference, KU will be just fine. Thats all I really care about.



  • The Big 12 will be carved up after the current TV deal is done and KU will likely end up in the Big 10.



  • It’s now official. Call in hospice the Big 12 is dying.

    Hopefully when Fox/Espn showed up at the meeting the Big 12 at the very least had a sack to negotiate a guarantee that every one of it’s members has a home.



  • The TV deal is a bunch of crap to me to start with, especially the shorthorn network that fucked us all. My thing is even if the networks don’t want to pay for more schools what are they gonna do? just not televise B12 games? Someone would pick it up if they didn’t like NBC, CBS’s trio with TRU and TBS. I don’t see them wanting to get shut out in the mid west. But yes if this conference makes it til this TV deal is done in 2024 I will be shocked, Hopefully the big 10 comes calling and our football team improves in the next few years Rutgers and Purdue are almost as bad.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 Do you really think we will be in the Big 10 if the Big 12 splits up? It’s all about football revenue and TV markets. Is our football “draw” big enough?



  • @Hawk8086 They have Rutgers, Purdue and Illinois that are almost as bad I would pick us to beat purdue or Rutgers at home this year hell we gave Rutgers a game on the road last year and they lost several starters.



  • @kjayhawks Rutgers is there because of the TV market…NY/NJ market which means TV dollars. Will the KC market be enough of a draw?



  • @Hawk8086 I think so I don’t think NY/NJ has a ton of Rutgers fans personally with how bad they suck in most sports and all the pro teams in that area. There is NY Rangers, Knicks, Jets (technically NJ) , Mets, Yankees and NJ has the Devils they don’t have the Nets per say but its just down the road in Brooklyn and I believe they have a MLS team aswell. I think with being one of a few colleges close to KC we get a ton of viewers there and with KS not having a pro team per say and plenty of hawk fans in Methouri any way.



  • @kjayhawks

    Imagine my complete lack of surprise.

    No Republican admin, no Big 12 Oil and Gas Junta expansion.



  • @jaybate-1.0 Haha what would we do with out you.



  • Bill self is happy w/it.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 Ya I just don’t know why he would be I think this double round robin beats the hell outta each other too much with only two true give me games, maybe that’s why the B12 under preforms most the time at the NCAAs. I think the only reason ESPN and media outlets don’t wan them to expand is they want 4 super conferences to cover not 5 or 6.



  • Adding more teams was about Money. Not adding teams is now about Money.

    Well I suppose the Big-12 isn’t pulling it’s own strings to make its own decisions.



  • @kjayhawks

    I think there was a thread a few months back that showed it has nothing to do with how many fans of Rutgers there are but the market in general and how many tv boxes will have access to the game. Same reason the Big-12 was looking at Houston, or UCONN or Florida etc… Expanding to area’s with big TV markets was the main draw for the Big-10 getting into the NY area.



  • @Lulufulu Agreed, this Conference is NOW TOAST. I’ve heard different people say well KU will be forced to take K-State with them make sure whatever conference we go to they accept K-State as well.- - -To that I say BULLSHIT I think K-State will end up in some so so also ran conference when all said and done that will not be the case. I despise the thought of KU even thinking about the Big 10 I’m sick of the Acc, Big 10, ESPN catering to the ACC but your right all about Money. ESPN was scared shitless thinking the Big 12 would step on their toes and disrupt their love affair. Maybe we land in the SEC - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @Hawk8086 Agree, I do not believe we end up in the Big 10, won’t be on the West Coast either. Like Lulufulu said think we will end up the other way towards the East. - - -and no we won’t make it till the contract is up in 2024, stick a fork in us. The Big 12 is cooked. THANK YOU ESPN - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @kjayhawks Y ou know just how bad our football program is when we have to start talking about the possibility of beating Rutgers, that wouldn’t be much to brag about. I’m not very sure we could beat them at this point at all. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • I’m glad we are sticking on 10 for now. I think it is just too risky to take on any of the choices out there and we don’t really know what potential we have for gain.

    The big mistakes in our conference are in the past, and how we let schools like Nebraska escape. I think we could make another big mistake out of desperation and I’m glad we didn’t.

    There was and is a domino effect. OU has become weaker since we lost Nebraska. That rivalry helped both programs.

    The Big 12 may or may not be in troubling waters in our immediate future. Let’s let things play out in these super conferences. They have structural nightmares and they lack integrity; no real conference champions decided. Maybe they melt down first.



  • @BeddieKU23

    Conference expansion/realignment apparently only considers tv revenues and tv markets AFTER the political economy constraint of state voting and pork barreling alliance needs are met.

    Board rats keep forgetting that university sports revenues are a drop in a bucket compared to a major university’s annual operating budget of over a $1 Billion dollars. A University has to keep getting massive Federal and state subsidy to stay alive year to year. Chancellors probably spend 50% to 90% of their time “developing” I.e., making pork rain through Federal and state legislatures and through foundations controlled mostly by a handful of private oligarchs. The Rockefeller’s, though listed laughably low on Forbes, still reputedly control the cornerstone foundations and have the lobbyists required to change the tax and foundation laws within a few years to punish rogue private oligarchs foundations threatening the status quo.

    IMHO NO UNIVERSITY CAN JOIN ANY CONFERENCE THAT THE DOMINANT PRIVATE OLIGARCHY DOES NOT WANT THEM TO JOIN JUST BECAUSE OF SOME PIDDLING ANNUAL SPORTS REVENUES.

    Military and University subsidies are REPUTEDLY the primary conduit for distributing pork to sustain regional voting blocks of states necessary for maintenance of our private oligarchy’s vice like hold on our republic and the way they assure the votes, or lack thereof, to do anything they want including operating unconstitutionally.

    Rutgers and Maryland did not apparently join the Big Ten for Football TV revenues FIRST. Nor did the Big Ten court them to JOIN for same FIRST. They apparently joined to become part of a voting block that could take tolls on oil and LNG , and to stop, or take tolls on any super corridor extension up the Ohio Valley to New Jersey and to the Chesapeake Bay. West Virginia U, from the state that Senator Jay Rockefeller represented, apparently made the apparently counter intuitive leap to the Big 12, instead of the Big Ten, for anything but football TV revenues! It apparently joined the conference of states that would have voted for that extension up the Ohio Valley sooner or later. Fizzouri apparently trying to protect itself from the kind of resource colonialism imposed on Kansas that that super corridor terminus was bringing, fled to the protection of the SEC.

    Forget tv revenues and tv markets as strong indicators of realignment. They have historically been at most secondary indicators. State and private oligarchy interests in enabling pork flow in regional political economy issues appear by far the most reliable indicators of conference realignment.



  • The Big 12 has been in trouble for one simple reason - they were not pro-active when it counted.

    As soon as Nebraska and Colorado left, the Big 12 should have been on the phone to expand. Had they added Louisville and West Virginia at that time, the conference would have been as follows:

    North - Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa State, Louisville, West Virginia

    South - Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

    That’s a very solid conference in football, both men’s and women’s basketball and baseball as well. Obviously, with the real revenue sports being football and men’s basketball, that would have been a real coup to have that group.

    Instead, the Big 12 sat on its hands and let the ACC grab the best parts of the dissolving Big East. Had the Big 12 been really pro-active, they could have gone to 14 by adding Pitt and TCU also.

    Instead, the Big 12 didn’t do anything until Mizzou and A&M left. By then, everyone else had already grabbed seats, so the Big 12 got what was left (TCU and West Virginia). Heck, the Big 12 could have gone with Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Pitt and TCU, then arranged the conference in 3 divisions of five:

    Louisville, Cincy, WVU, Pitt and Iowa St.

    KU, KSU, Mizzou, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St.

    TCU, Texas, A&M, Baylor, Tech

    Everybody plays each team in their division in football, plus 2 or 3 teams from the other 2 divisions (still 9 conference games). Round robin for your division in basketball, plus either home or away against everyone else (still 18 games). Tell me that’s not an awesome conference in both football and basketball?

    Everybody maintains their main rivals: Backyard Brawl, Border War, Bedlam, A&M-Texas, etc.

    You still get the Red River Shootout every other year in football. Louisville and Cincinnati likely develop a good rivalry in football.

    And in basketball, we get the traditional games, plus a trip to Louisville or Cincinnati every year. That’s a nightmare of a conference with all of those teams, but a conference that likely sends someone deep in the tournament every single year.

    That’s what could have happened if the Big 12 was pro-active. But they waited until the music stopped to find a dance partner.



  • @justanotherfan

    That just begs the question of why they were not proactive? All the evidence is they know everything the other conferences know and always have throughout the years. All the evidence is they have been trying to be proactive all through the years, but have been getting constrained in their actions by something. And even if one argues they were slow on the draw in the early years, then logic dictates learning would have occurred and they would’ve been more effectively proactive recently. The obvious constraint is that billion dollar budget organizations cannot jump Willy Nilly for small amounts of sports revenue monies relative to the really big revenue streams their billion dollar budgets require. Fit with the constraints of regional political economy remains the most logical constraint to realignment. Well at least you are not arguing for “football TV revenues” being the major driver; that is progress IMHO.



  • @justanotherfan I wish we would’ve just kicked out Texas, I bet they end up a independent anyway doubt they would go to the Pac 12 or SEC because they wont be the top dog like they currently are. I would’ve dropped Texas to keep Nebraska and Colorado in then Added 3 teams in Louisville, Cinncy and Memphis. The thing that is laughable is that it must come down to markets because Texas sucks in most sports right now outside of VB and have for the last few years which VB probably has zero baring on this. The blame is on Texas and the media outlets IMO. Good bye B12 hello MVC and FCS football



  • @justanotherfan

    Well said, the Big-12 missed its shot.



  • @kjayhawks

    The networks had no choice about paying. A contract is in place the obligates them to pay $25M for every new team that joins the conference. They made an offer to buy themselves out of that clause and the conference apparently agreed.

    I guess I am in the minority that thinks 10 schools is the ideal number for a conference. The Big 12 has been declared dead many time in the last few years and yet it continues to not only be alive but to thrive and do very well financially. All the conference basketball coaches I have heard recently including Self, Huggins and Kruger have all indicated their preference for a ten school conference. Something to think about.





  • @JayHawkFanToo I bet its done I’m less than ten years the media pays the SEC teams more than that they just have a hard on for them.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 They weren’t going anywhere to start with no one wants them especially with no football.



  • @kjayhawks they’ve been thinking about adding fb.



  • @Crimsonorblue22

    WSU to the Big East? No way. Does Bob Lutz realize that all the schools in the Big East are private Catholic schools (except Butler which is private but non-denominational)? Wichita State just does not fit at all the Big East mold and there is a much better chance it would take schools like Dayton or Saint Joseph which are primarily basketball schools before they even consider WSU. I roll my eyes when so-called journalists don’t do their home work and just spout non-sense.





  • @Crimsonorblue22 I know this I live about an hour north of Wichita but they also have talked about it several other times in my life, not old enough to have been around for WSU football. But if they were smart they would get it going while BB is making them good money and enrollment is up or they’ll be in the MVC forever.



  • @kjayhawks I think they are serious.


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