Post-game Roundup: KU vs New Mexico
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@HighEliteMajor-Past our bedtime but glad you’re here on the board. We’re getting our wishes for Christmas early HEM-Lucas, Greene, & Embid finally emerge from the Phog, & Black fades further down in the pecking order. No malice as jb would say, but looks to me like we’re going to turn the corner finally with our rotation issues. BS said on the post game show that he was really excited for Brannen & Nadir, aside from a couple bonehead plays the final 3-4 min. The ball just moves better with Brannen on the floor. And the 9 pts & 8 assists was precisely what the good DR (Naismith) ordered for Tharpe… And the 19 pt avg of capn’ Kirk was virtually negated by the committee of bigs, can you dig it? Hell, Joel’s 18 almost did that by himself. The drop step Embid laid on him after the missed alley oop pass just screamed out that the money as a top 5 or less may be too much for us to expect him here for more than one season. Our estimates early that he could be the game changer that Jeff became are showing glimpses my friend. My initial thought was the memory of Akeem, then one af the was talking heads said the exact same thing. Man that was sweet. Also the Tharpe/Self saga may have come clean with his “comeback.” Also what I noted about Selden lowering his head when going straight to the rack was evident on his first or second offensive touch, ending with an out of control fall to the floor & subsequent TO. We still have to have quicker rotation on help def from Perry, Jamari, & others, but Landon impressed the krap outta me with his,plus no fouls. Guess it’s the season of gifts after all old bud, we’re just getting ours early. Not all of them, not yet anyway, but hey, at least Santa didn’t give us a big stick of candy & a sack of nuts.
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Glad to see the boys play some positive ball and get rewarded. We still have two tough non-cons coming up. In the meantime they can’t forget the lessons learned against the zone. Saw some great, quick ball movement tonight. Keep working hard guys! Rock Chalk!
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Self on Tharpe, THE team leader:
“He has to take ownership for everything,” Self added. “There’s nobody else that can do it yet. He has to buy time for these guys to give them a chance to grow up and he hasn’t done that as well as he can do. Today I thought he did a good job with that.”
Who is this team’s Leader? Question answered. Now don’t make me ask again.
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Also, I don’t care what’s been promised. From here on out, Landon Lucas is the first big off the bench. Then Jamari. Then Tarik Black. It’s better for KU’s present and future to give the PT to those guys.
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A few thoughts about the game.
You could not go wrong by picking Embiid or Ellis as MVPs of the game, they had excellent games and nothing much else need said. Embiids spin move and score is something you expect from an experienced player not from “newbie.” Tharpe also had one terrific game even if it included 4 turnovers, he directed the offense masterfully and sent passes inside that allowed Embiid and Ellis to have terrific nights. We juts don’t get that from Mason.
Are we ready to write Tarik off? Maybe not quite yet but it is getting close. Lucas looked good in the time he played, picked up rebounds and did not foul; his playing time will certainly increase. I still like Jamari’s motor; even when he is in the sidelines he is constantly cheering the team. Coaches like that.
Looks like Greene will be playing more and more and he looked good at times. He still needs to maintain concentration at all times and had another silly turnover.
relatively quiet night for Wiggins but it is obvious that he is slowly becoming more confident and more assertive. Selden had a nice game for a chance; he was a good 3 point shooter in HS but he looks tentative; he need to let the game come to him instead of forcing shots.
I liked watching the team positively react when New Mexico cut the lead and go on another run; the killer instinct is slowly coming to them. All in all a good night.
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Thanks HEM. Once again, good stuff. I haven’t seen the game yet, I dvr’d it. Gonna watch tmoro, well technically its today but I digress.
This was a much needed game for our young fellas. Just with reading the recaps here and there, they seemed to play much better. I agree with you HEM, Im relieved to see that Coach has finally seemed to pick one. Brannen had a good stat line in 16 min. Good. Im also happy for Lucas picking the slack up too. WIgs’ shots weren’t falling (3-11) and he had foul probs. I hope he gets whatever it is ironed out before conference starts, cuz we’re gonna need him at full strength to win this thing again. We got about 3 weeks left? ish. One more thing, Way to go UNC! Beating Kensucky. I kinda thought they would before the game anyways, but Im glad to see it happened. Roy’s team this year is starting to remind me of KU in '12. Short handed and tough as nails. I wonder if someone can put up the total wins #'s for all 3 teams? Kinda seems like we are gaining on the stinky cats.
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yah, me too. I really hope he sticks around. We’ll need him next year.
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I just finished watching the game and reading the postgame posts. HEM’s list of positives (and one negative on White) is right on. I’d add one negative, that Wiggins is not yet a lock-down defender.
The quality of discussion on this board is so high, both after losses and wins, that it’s even more fun to be a KU fan.
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Landon Lucas can play, he always could. Once again, and I do not mean this as a negative, Coach Self limits minutes/red shirts quality players to hold onto them as long as he can. Joel Embiid can play, he just was not given the chance. Tarik Black can play ball, unfortunately he has not adapted to this years rules. You can’t grab and hand-check anymore. I personally feel bad for AWIII. We have saw glimpses of what he can do. He is capable of heating up like “The Microwave”, when given a chance. Conner Frankamp can hold his own and light it up as well. Freshman year at KU is a crapshoot. The best example is Cole Aldrich. He sat bench most of his freshman year, and then he gave Tyler Hansbrough the business on the big stage at the Final Four when called upon. I don’t see much light at the end of the tunnel for AWIII at this point, but you never know. HEM, I have always maintained that Landon Lucas can play at this level. You said you didn’t think he would do much based on his “Star” rating out of high school. Also, I told you that Andrew Wiggins would be great for Kansas Basketball, one and done or not. You didn’t really want him. As you can see, he has not upset the Apple Cart. Wiggins remains someone that can get us that much needed bucket come March. He does not appear to be afraid of the big moment. I enjoy reading your post, they are insightful.
The reason I stopped posting on KUSPORTS is quite simple. It has nothing to do with FaceGate. It is about changing the rules in the middle of the game. That is something that I cannot support.
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I believe that Black should be the first guy off the bench. He should be up handing water and towels to the players that are not leading the nation in fouls to minutes ratio.
Sorry. It’s early and I should be happy for the win. I just have a problem with a 5th year senior who picks up his first foul literally before he has one bead of sweat on him.
OH - and my daughter called. She said that apparently # 3 on New Mexico ( the guy that looks like Jon Heder in Blades of Glory ) found her headband and she wanted to get it back. I told her to let him keep it. It looked pretty cute on him.
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Man, I don’t know Paris. Without Wiggins playing like he did on both ends of the court the last game, we get beat by 20. Wigs can absolutely play good defense and I think he is one of our best on ball defenders but he obviously still has some growing pains which I hope he irons out sooner than later. We only got 3 more non con games til the conference starts. We gonna need all our guys fired up and ready for all the games.
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I’m an optimist, I think this game was awesome.
But wait, I’m a pessimist, it was New Mexico at our home away from home. (anyone know how we got a Jayhawk on the floor in KC, MO?)
I’m an optimist really and Joel is way better than I thought because coming into this year I thought he was going to be a project. The first game against FHState he looked like a project, the 2nd game and 3rd games he looked like he was nearing completion and now he’s a finished product.
I’m an pessimist, Joel is gone after our last game in March.
I’m an optimist, that game will be in April.
I’m a pessimist, Tarik sucks.
I’m an optimist, we don’t need him.
I’m a pessimist, OAD’s will ruin this team.
I’m an optimist, one of them is becoming a TAD or a THAD, I’m talking Selden of course, because I don’t see the hype so far on him, which is good because we need some of these kids to stay.
I’m a pessimist, what happens when we run into another tough zone defense?
I’m an optimist, we have the best coach in the country and the scrimmages with Villanova, Colorado and Florida will teach this team way more than beating Central Northwestern South Carolina State.
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OK…this is weird. The index shows this thread as being new thread with only my post and no replies, but when I open it, it show several post from 7 months ago. I will guess that there was another thread with the same name and it displaying the post for both. Oh well…growing pains…
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Also, after I press the Submit button, the post is placed at the very top of the thread; however, if I go out and come back in, the post is now at the bottom in its customary position…
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That’s bizarre! Thanks letting me know. I’ll test against a clean board tonight and see if this behaviour is b/c of migrated data or present on the new platform regardless.
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@JayDocMD - Have to give you huge credit this past week. Has there been a more timely thread starter than the “leadership” post? On Lucas, Self mentioned that Lucas was good vs. the bulkier UNM players. I do wonder if Self was implying that Lucas might not fair as well against athleticism. I don’t know. But I agree with you. Play Lucas/Traylor over Black right now.
@appoxinfinity - I would be nice to think Selden might stay. Probably too much time left in the season to burden our minds with that hope. But at least we can cross our fingers.
@Lulufulu85 - It was good to see UNC beat UK. UNC has beaten Michigan St., Louisville, and UK. Perhaps this would be a good year for us to avoid Roy in the NCAA tourney.
@ParisHawk - Do you see any potential lock-down defender? I don’t. I agree with @Jesse_Newell, we should strongly consider shifting to zone for a chunk of each game. New rules, young team, long and athletic team. Adds up.
@nuleafjhawk - “I believe that Black should be the first guy off the bench. He should be up handing water and towels to the players that are not leading the nation in fouls to minutes ratio.” Is there another player in the country that the “new rules” have impacted more directly than Tarick Black? Black seemed to maintain a pretty positive demeanor during the game.
Reputation: 1,052 | Posts: 71
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We have to remember that Wiggins is still developing just like everyone else.
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The main reason I stay away from KUSports now is because the posters can’t even spell our players names correctly.
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@HighEliteMajor - please consider that MOST of the time, I’m just spouting off or trying to get a giggle (at least for things that seem funny to me). I know he works just as hard as everyone else. But it is frustrating. For him. And me. And probably You.
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I also was surprised and pleased to see what Lucas did in his minutes. Grabbed every board that was in his vicinity. Didn’t make mistakes (that I saw), didn’t foul. I had been in the camp that he would not be a contributor for awhile…looks like that might be wrong. However, it is hard to draw conclusions from one game. I still like Traylor off the bench before Lucas, because he (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) is more of an offsensive threat. He is way more aggressive…Lucas didn’t even look to shoot. That doesn’t mean he can’t contribute, though, for sure. Before reading Self’s comments, I was curious about what he would say as to Mason’s 6 mins. of playing time. While I like what Mason has done so far, we need Tharpe to continue to earn most of the PG minutes as he did last night. I don’t like to see Mason and Tharpe play so many minutes together. We need Greene to earn more minutes (3 pt shooting, big guard) and Selden to play well enough to earn 30 mins. or so. That leaves Mason as energy, tough D, penetration, etc. off the bench as backup PG and some minutes alongside Tharpe. If everyone else does what we all think they need to do, Mason probably does not play 25 minutes. Clearly we are a different team with Embiid in the lineup.
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Now we have Wiggins in the beast mode for three games though he didn’t have a good game last night, but I think he was aggressive when he was on the floor. He is getting out of his comfort zone and trying to be the go-to guy. I don’t think he is anywhere near where he can become, but he is leading the team in many categories purely based on his physical abilities.
I think the point guard position is one of the biggest deficiency of this team. Tharpe played a very good second half, but his first half was terrible in my untrained eyes. When Tharpe played well driving and dishing, we got a lot of talent to finish around the rim. I whole-heartily agree with Coach and also Fran that he needs to play like a pure point.
I think this team hit the freshman wall a little earlier than normal. We had some early season success. The young guys ran on adrenaline for a while, then they ran out of ideas. And part of the reason I think is that the coaches studied enough film and figured out how to beat this talented, but undisciplined team. I think the team is starting to buy into Coach Self’s philosophy, and some of them are starting to get out of their comfort zone and bring effort into the game every game. Wiggins has brought it to the games for the last three games and tried to take over such as in the Colorado game. Embiid has consistently getting better and better. I think he is cutting down his fouls too and getting more blocks. Ellis continues to impress on the offense and I think we don’t talk about him enough. I think he is truly amazing. I think he can finish above the rim, but he chooses to play below and uses his foot work to finish consistently. If Embiid stays for another year, he’d be as good as Ellis, but with 3-4 inches of height advantage. How great will he be?!
I think Wiggins and Embiid have had the switch turned on. Now I’m waiting for Selden to get out of his skin. Once he gets up to speed with Self ball, we have the team pretty much complete.
I don’t understand White vs. Greene situation, but Coach must have his reasons to sit White. I’m not losing faith with White, but Greene is displaying a lot of confidence right now which is a good thing. I still think Coach Self is trying to balance between Greene and White and keep both happy. I think either Greene or White transferring will be a big loss to the team even with Oubre coming. I think a sophomore Greene or junior White will be better than freshman Oubre even though Oubre is ranked much higher than both Greene and White. We now have seen how the highly ranked Wiggins and Selden perform and they play like true freshmen.
I think the Colorado game was Wiggins’ turning point. I’m sure he will have ups and downs, but he will bring his effort on the floor.
It’s really good to see Mason having the right attitude on the bench. I noticed in the second half, he ran onto the floor to pull Traylor up even though he was sitting on the bench at the time. I don’t think bench players are allowed to run onto the floor, but there was a timeout. And I thought that was very encouraging that he didn’t get down on himself for losing the starting spot.
Over all, there are many encouraging signs from the team through the two losing games and last night’s winning game. I think some of the freshmen are breaking through the freshmen wall and really buying into Coach Self’s teaching. The season is still young and the team will only get better.
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It seems that part of our early struggles were due to experimenting constantly with our lineup. I believe now we have most of those battles figured out and we can finally play the guys that we are going into battle with from here on out.
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dtd, I agree that figuring out the rotation will help…for sure. I’m not sure that those combinations are completely settled, though…Hope so.
Also, Traylor being able to hit free throws makes him way more valuable. With his energy and athleticism, he has the ability to contribute by getting to the line and scoring valuable points off of the bench.
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Though many played great and are expected to do so, Nadir at QB posting appx 38 minutes was critical. I firmly believe as so goes Tharpe, this team will ultimately follow. Mason’s a great backup for the energy factor, but Na appears to be the key.
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@nuleafjhawk - Yes … I know your posts are with “no malice”. I just wonder how hard the guys are on Black. I mean, do they walk by him in the hall, bump him, and yell “foul”? Or when he sneezes, do they say “foul, number two - five”? You know that’s going on.
@Wishawk - Like you, I don’t understand what White has done to slip back. Self complimented his off season. He looks great. Seemed to play well when given the chance. He was hitting threes early. I agree. I don’t want White to transfer at all – actually, I dread it. But do you think Oubre isn’t a starter? He’s OAD quality, apparently; though his dad said he’s not an OAD. 2015 NBA mock has him going 4th. Ugh.
http://nbadraft.net/2015mock_draft
New look rotation?
-Starters: Tharpe, Selden, Wiggins, Ellis, Embiid.
-Bench: Mason, Greene, Lucas, Traylor
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@highelitemajor Really really don’t want Andrew White to transfer either. I think if he stays 4 he will end up being the heart of this team as an upperclassman. Here’s his brother kicking butt and taking names for Thomas Dale High School, near me:
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HEM,
Thanks for your response. I enjoyed reading it. You make good points as always. Even if I don’t agree from time to time, I take them into consideration. Not sure what our record would be without Wiggins. I think our record would be much better with Lucas getting more playing time. I love his hustle. As far as AWIII goes, I don’t know what else he can do to get time on the court? He appears to be in excellent shape, and seems to have an excellent attitude. If he transferred, I would wish him nothing but the best. We all know that year 3 in Coach Self’s program is where players usually blossom, so who knows? Glad your mind remains open, we may have 3 OAD’s before the season is over.
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AW3 future is a mystery. If he cant crack the line up this year how will he get PT next year with Tharpe, Mason, Selden, Greene and Oubre in the mix. Even if Selden becomes an OAD, if AW3 can’t get minutes this year I just cant see how will he be getting the minutes next year.
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Great Discussion above. Enjoyed all the points.
My three takeaways from the game:
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Finally some decent crisp ball movement.
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Though Wiggins couldn’t get the ball to fall through the basket, he played like he should and attacked the rim.
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Embiid. Wow. 'Nuff Said.
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@HighEliteMajor - right on the button again! You communicate the points so well… a big reason why I think you should be coaching.
I agree with your assessment. I’m excited to see Lucas getting some minutes. He plays probably the best fundamental basketball of anyone on this team. He may not be the most athletic player we have, but he utilizes well what he does have, and plays within his potential. He has good upside, and whatever minutes we give him now will pay off in future years, plus, he clearly can give us quality minutes now.
I thought JoJo and Perry looked much improved, even though we were facing probably the biggest post team to date. Makes me wonder if the smaller teams are a bigger challenge to our post players. That is typical… and points to players needing to move their feet more. Embiid has the best feet of any big man in years… perhaps decades. He’ll adjust. And Perry has great wheels, too, he just needs to make the mental adjustment. Perry’s learning method is through reps… but I think in this case, he needs to start working harder on visualization. He has had a lifetime of reps, and they will always be there as an excellent tool for him to use… but his biggest gains today will come from visualization training. So many players come back from injuries and play the best basketball of their careers because they spent their recovery period visualizing about their game and what could be improved. Perry can even visualize the part of playing looser and not over-thinking during a game. In fact, all our guys should spend some time visualizing the game and where they are and how they can improve.
After watching them strategically attack the Lobos bigs, I now realize that Self gets it… about how most of our games this year will be decided by who wins the foul wars. I viewed our attacks on their interior with great joy, more than anything else I took from this game!
It was a good game to emphasize Perry’s battle for post real estate. He had to battle bigs with more size and weight, which always poses a challenge. Perry should receive a bump for his self esteem in knowing he can battle post players of any size for position. He can. Take a look at Wichita State… and watch the play of Tekele Cotton. What is he, 6’2"? He plays the post like a giant. It isn’t the size of the dog in the fight, it is more about the size of the fight in the dog.
I like what Greene has to offer. Sure… he needs polishing. He so often breaks CS’s rules… but so did B.Rush and others. The guy has some sneaky skills, and someday we’ll take advantage of all his abilities.
Naadir played a bit better… but he still seems to be missing on a cylinder.
It was obvious that in the past few days in practice this team worked on ball motion to prevent it from sticking. The ball moved much better than at Florida, even though the pressure was not intense from the Lobos. I’m sure many of the teams coming up on our schedule will try to use perimeter pressure to get the same results Florida and Villanova received. We are not done being tested on the perimeter.
We still don’t run a set hi/lo offense, but at least we had more emphasis on feeding the post. One step at a time!
With Embiid’s offense coming on, it should help relieve a bit of pressure off of Perry, though I think it is good to keep the pressure on Perry. My concern is Embiid’s offense continues to improve and so Perry backs off. Perry needs to realize, even with Embiid improving, Perry is our main weapon for post offense! Perry and Embiid should work together in the post with screens and spacing to help each other.
We seemed to play with more confidence and bounce yesterday, but we will make a grave mistake if we think we are much different than the team that showed up in Florida or in the Bahamas. We still have to hustle every day in practice and listen carefully to CS.
Wayne (John Wayne) seems to be in a micro-rut… and I hope he can limit it to micro. He posted respectable stats in this game, but he still doesn’t attack as much as he did in the first games. I think it would do some good to see us create a few plays for Wayne to finish on. It will help with his confidence, and he is so capable of finishing well… either with the 3 or in the paint. I think CS nailed it by saying he tries too hard… I don’t think that means he is physically hustling too much… it means he is mentally trying too hard and it is slowing his game down. He needs to loosen up and try to have fun out there!
Jamari will continue to make too many fouls… but he is bringing good energy into the game and he plays with good emotion. We need to see plenty of emotion out there and the guys need to channel their emotions in a positive way.
Looking better! I still have them placed in the COLD COLD COLD phase but if they keep improving like they did yesterday, I’ll bump them into WARM WARM WARM!
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Man, good posts by everyone. Agree with much of what’s said.
@HEM: Agree with your praise of LL. He earned a nod with his play. Self said we havent even seen his “scoring by face up jumper, or finishing with either hand around the rim”. Only with more mpg to judge can we tell if he actually brings more offensive repertoire than Black or that JamariSafari dude…While its no secret I “pull” for the “project” guys, I definitely wait to believe it when I see it…meaning, they deserve to play if they actually produce. Unfortunately for him, the same applies to Black.
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@KansasComet Regarding your point on KUSports I can see your point and concur however I must admit that it is still the best site from KU BB content point of view.
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Well, my view of KUSports is 2 separate points:
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Fine to read the stories to get Self’s quotes or simply keep up with KU sports-type breaking news. (the articles)
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Absolutely do NOT like the quality of posts. The posting community we had there is lost for good. I respected and valued each well-known member’s posts and unique takes–which is why I like the posts here… Just like HEM, I still try to post there under another name, but its just not the same.
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@ralster, the quality of the LJW posts is so bad that one of the guys, going by the name of Jack Wilson, seems to be cutting and pasting excerpts from HEM’s posts on this board! They’re the best stuff on there, but still…
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The players meeting held this past week had some positive results. Everyone got their turn to vent and each one knew what was expected from this point on.
Do you think Releford got to talk to AWIII? Hope so.
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@ralster. A good number of posts on the KUSports Forum are downright embarrassing. I wonder what fans from other schools -scouting the local boards prior to playing KU- think.
There is no doubt that the better posters are now in this Forum. The knowledge level and content quality are so much better here; it is not even close. whoever implemented he policies at KUSports that resulted in an exodus of posters and a dramatic drop, not only in the quantity, but more importantly the quality of posts, should be fired; hard to believe management does not see the trend.
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I like the fantastic insights that so many on this site bring forward every day. I like Jesse Newell connecting us all to the live blog for games.
I like the passion of my fellow Jayhawk fans!
And I like the fact that this is connecting to the various sites as a sort of “one-stop” for all my KU hoops news.
@approxinfinity deserves all the credit for providing such an amazing nest into which the former KU Sports intelligentsia could land.
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@bskeet I’m just a middle man connecting a good platform with good people, and greasing the wheels with links to stories. Glad it feels like we’ve got a nice roll going now, and glad people are pitching in like you do to keep the stories hooked up and bringing out the best in each other.
Btw, noticed that the reply button now automatically puts the @ in the reply. woot! nice touch by the nodebb guys.
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This board rocks! I’m actually quite comfortable coming here now and don’t miss the trolls and a few negative posters at the pre-FaceGate kusports.com. Approx, I like the reputation and posts stats. Is reputation based on volume? Can I pay to increase mine, I have a paypal account?!?!
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@approxinfinity you’re right!
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@approxinfinity I moved to Lawrence when I was six, my father pursuing advanced degrees at KU and working on the training staff at Allen Field House.
Dad says one day. “I met a young man today you should meet. I’ll pick you up after school tomorrow.”
I’ve seen the 7 foot multi-sport talent, smooth, swift, determined man before. I’ve seen those moves.
Standing on the Field House Court looking straight up to the rafters. “Gene, this is Mr. Chamberlain” He smiled and reached for my hand…what he said is lost in the massive size of his hand and immense height, his head touching the rafters above!
Thats’ where I have seen those moves…who is to say what the future will bring, but it sure will be fun to watch!
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@homey What a nice story and awesome memories. I only had the pleasure of watching Wilt in his final years with the Lakers.
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Lots of positives from the game on Saturday.
The most encouraging thing I saw was Tharpe acting as a distributor. In the second half when he started attacking to pass, our offense really opened up. It also helped that we locked down on defense and got out in transition, as the athleticism this KU team has is second to none.
I was actually disappointed that Kirk got into foul trouble and was a non-factor. I was really hoping that our interior guys would get to face interior guys of equal size and caliber. Here’s hoping that the Georgetown game gives us some of that, as Embiid, Ellis, and Lucas all need to face off against talented guys that are not undersized. I don’t want the tournament to be the first time we really get to see that type of size and talent combination.
Still waiting on Selden to put together a full basketball game that is on par with his talent. I know I have pointed this out after just about every game, but it is my belief that Selden is the third most talented player on this year’s team (after Wiggins and Embiid). The other two have had multiple big games contributing. Selden continues to contribute only along the margins. He’s too talented for that to be the case all season. I’m not saying he needs to try and take a game over, but he needs to be much more aggressive to maximize his talent.
