The worst trade ever?
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@JayHawkFanToo Phil Jackson inherited a team with the worst cap situation in the league. The Knicks are not a 1 year project to fix. Isiah Thomas and James Dolan completely screwed the franchise over. Without interference from Dolan, it’s going to take another 2-3 years to clear out the terrible contracts the Knicks have on the books.
You cannot fairly judge the job Phil Jackson has done yet because it is still a work in progress that has multiple years left before we’ll see what kind of team Phil can really assemble if he’s even there long enough. Dumping Smith and Shumpert helps, but there’s still a long ways to go in that rebuilding process.
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Yes, he inherited a marginal team made it worse; they went from 37-45 (.451) to 17-65 (.207) and worst record in the history of the Franchise and second worse record in the NBA.
Stephen Smith at ESPN does not think much of Phil Jackson either…
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Shumpert started and JR Smith was the top bench player who played 35 MPG for the Cavaliers and helped them get to the NBA finals. Maybe getting rid of them was not such a good move considering that Shumpert had a relatively low cost contract.
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U r cracking me up with Phil NOT being a genius. HOWLING!
Of course the OADS dog it in D1! U r cracking me up again. OAD stands for “over all dogging”!
Lebron would have taken a Siesta in D1 under current circumstances. U never would have drafted him! Howling!
Omg! Wigs could easily turn out better than MIJOR!!! Wigs is soooooo young and has played semi hard only one season. He is clearly still avoiding injury and not going 100% until the first free agent contract! He will super nova after his next contract. Everyone in the NBA gets the game. The Cavs traded him because they knew he wouldn’t light the candle till the second contract and because of the Adidas/Nike clash. Father Wigs has this opera doped out. Andrew plays for money only. Andrew plays big for big money only!
Elementary, baby!!!
Lebron just wants to be liked? HOWLING! U r like the next Chris Rock!!! U r crAcking me up.
Imagine what a genius Phil will become when he picks up Lebron!
Unless Cavs ownership threatens to give Lebron’s extended family zinc acid bathes over the casino bidness, LBJ ----> NYC ASAP!
Everything has changed but the way we think.–paraphrasing AE.
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I just read the whole thread and want to get back to the most important topic initially addressed by @ParisHawk GRAMMAR!
My biggest pet peave is the last 15 years is people saying “can I” instead of “may I.” If I asked my librarian mother “can I do such and such?” She would respond “yes, you have the ability to do such and such!”
I’ve even spoken to several high school teachers and they’ve said to let it go. I even went on the Google and there are plenty of articles saying can/may are interchangeable.
Argh! I guess that’s what happens when you legalize pot. Can replaces may. Cats and dogs living together…total hysteria!!!
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@VailHawk I always use can, as am I able? May, I’m asking for permission.
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@JayHawkFanToo What were Shumpert and Smith doing in New York? Franchises in total rebuild mode typically get worse before they get better. My Astros are now seeing the fruits of staying the course of a total rebuild. The Royals are now reaping those benefits. The 76ers are currently in the middle of that process. A total rebuild job in the NBA is 3-4 year process because of the length of contracts.
Then you cite a guy who only knows how to do two things, yell and complain. There is a reason I quit watching First and Ten (I know it’s First Take now) and that is because of Stephen A. Smith because he turned the show into a yelling match.
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@jaybate-1.0 said:
U r cracking me up with Phil NOT being a genius. HOWLING!
I said he was a genius. He knows talent and how to coach it to championships.
Of course the OADS dog it in D1! U r cracking me up again. OAD stands for “over all dogging”!
I said I doubted LeBron would dog it much. He’s too much of a competitor. Michael didn’t take many days off. I would expect the next MJ or LBJ to not take days off either. I’m well aware of lazy athletes coasting on talent and reputaion.
Lebron would have taken a Siesta in D1 under current circumstances. U never would have drafted him! Howling!
Doubt it.
Omg!
are you at 16 year old girl? I thought you were an ancient male.
Wigs could easily turn out better than MIJOR!!!
He could, but it would be with a great deal of effort and luck. It won’t be easy. No one else has been as good as MJ since MJ.
Wigs is soooooo young and has played semi hard only one season.
I don’t think you are giving his effort enough credit. He will get better and he will learn how to give more, but I doubt he’s half assing it.
He is clearly still avoiding injury and not going 100% until the first free agent contract! He will super nova after his next contract.
After he is finally physically mature and understands the game. He will like most players peak in years 4-10. Ages 22 (freak athletes) to 24 normal NBA calibre athletes is usually the beginning of the peak years.
Everyone in the NBA gets the game. The Cavs traded him because they knew he wouldn’t light the candle till the second contract and because of the Adidas/Nike clash. Father Wigs has this opera doped out. Andrew plays for money only. Andrew plays big for big money only!
I go to my job for money too. I get satisfaction out of it, but I wouldn’t show up if I wasn’t paid.
Elementary, baby!!!
Lebron just wants to be liked? HOWLING! U r like the next Chris Rock!!! U r crAcking me up.
It’s an over-simplification that I thought you could follow given your deep introspect into various other topics. Thanks, but why in the world would he want to go back to Cleveland if it’s not to be liked again? being liked makes him millions. Pages could be written, but I don’t have the time.
Imagine what a genius Phil will become when he picks up Lebron!
His coach will look better too.
Unless Cavs ownership threatens to give Lebron’s extended family zinc acid bathes over the casino bidness, LBJ ----> NYC ASAP!
Umm, ok.
Everything has changed but the way we think.–paraphrasing AE.
I’m not sure how I got sucked into this production, but all I really wanted to throw out there is: A year ago at this time Cleveland just got LeBron back and was in win today mode. They had just whiffed on their previous #1 overall pick and we’re seemingly gunshy. So trade a realitively unknown (will be starter level, but will he be an all-star?) for an all-star. If you have one year to get it done it’s easy to freak out. They panicked. I don’t support the move and wish Andrew was playing with LeBron. But I understand why they did it.
I am not as eloquent nor willing to invest as much time as you’re able to be. Sorry if this too misses the mark. I must now go and begin to remove my shingles.
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I think you miss the mark on OAD’s taking plays or games off. I see your point but none of these OAD’s wants to be the one that loses it all because they got hurt in their lone season in college ball. So much of their draft potential is indeed based off potential anyways. Get hurt and you fall like a boulder off the side of a cliff.
I have no doubt LeBron would have taken plays and games off. He would have no choice. With agents, financial backers, sponsors, and shoe companies. You do what you your told to do. And who could blame them? Why gamble millions and a secure, set life for the off chance of winning a Championship in College.
I know we love the story about the competitor that does it for the love of the game, for his pride. However this isn’t the yesteryears. Where kids went to college because they always wanted to be a Jayhawk, Wildcat, and so on. It’s all business.
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No wonder the U.S. is full of loosers. No work ethic anymore and it’s widely accepted.
Well that doesn’t cut it for me, my family, or employees. I especially appreciate a player like Travis Releford or Tyrell Reed both of whom worked their tails off. Ben McLemore showed up at least 80% of the time. Not all OADs are lazy, but give me 3-4 year guys all day long.
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“Argh! I guess that’s what happens when you legalize pot. Can replaces may. Cats and dogs living together…total hysteria!!!”
Loved the grammar lesson today! Seems this thread needs to go in a more positive direction. So MAYbe I CAN help…
I think you are on to something inferring that legalizing pot has facilitated people turning “MAY” into “CAN.” Think of it this way… before pot was legal in Coloradical, the magic word was CAN’T! For some reason, we of the English language never got around to creating the word MAYN’T. I’m not sure why… because there doesn’t seem to be a logical reason why we MAY NOT use MAYN’T in our grammar.
You MAY need to show patience reading through my tangential thought process. Okay… so… in actuality, CAN has come to replace CAN’T in the Coloradical vocabulary. MAY has been permanently erased because it came up short without MAYN’T.
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@KUSTEVE Those people are a bunch of loosers.
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That is a pet peeve of mine as well. When my grand kids ask for something using “can I” as in “can I have some candy?” I always reply…I don’t know, can you? and then they smile and say…may I have some candy?
I understand that the English Language is changing and it is impossible to stop the inevitable; however, I feel I should not help speed up the downward spiral.
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This is just my opinion…
I think Dan Gilbert needs to sign LBJ to a 5-yr deal and pay him ZERO! Give him ownership stock as his salary and gradually bring him into the front office with David Griffin. That… or leave him on the court and give him an official coaching position, either replacing Blatt, or making him an equal. The current situation isn’t fair for Blatt or the rest of the team (besides LBJ) because there isn’t clear leadership on that team. What worked this year may just be a fluke. We could all clearly see LBJ can not carry a team to the championship, especially at his current age. Kerr was a genius this year and coached the playoffs like a seasoned veteran. He realized from Game 1 that it would be a long series and won by the team that took a broader perspective of the finals and considered attrition as a key factor.
From what I understand, LBJ was the only player that had won a ring in this year’s finals. I thought Kerr easily outsmarted the Cavs and Blatt and made it seem like GS was the team with finals experience. They executed a far superior game plan.
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The fans were not happy either and booed loudly at the pick. Porzingis himself acknowledged that and indicated that he would like to change the boos into applause.
The Knicks need help now and Pozingis is at best a long term prospect; by the time he is ready to produce, assuming he is not yet another Euro bust, Carmelo will have likely retired.
I looked at the draft grading for all teams in various publication and the Knicks have a thumbs down or negative evaluation by just about all of them.
As far as what the payers you mentioned were doing?
JR Smith was awarded the NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award for the 2013 season. He was the first Knick to win the award since John Starks, who did it in the 1996–97 season. He averaged a career high 18.1 points per game, 5.3 rebounds per game, 2.7 assists per game, and 1.3 steals per game in 33.5 minutes per game during the 2012-2013 season. He played 80 games during the season.
Shumpert was having a decent season before being traded averaging 24 MPG and 10 PPG before getting injured.
One man’s ceiling is another man’s floor. I guess we see it differently and that is OK, this is what the Forum is for, express your thoughts and read what other members write and disagreement is just part of the process…
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@wissoxfan83 Exactly…LMAO. It totally puts me on tilt…
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Not sure anybody is saying OAD’s are lazy? They just have more to lose than a Travis Releford, and Tyrell Reed type player. When you’ve got nothing to lose then you can lay it all on the line. However when you can lose it before you even get it? Well that changes everything.
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I caught about half of the draft. From what I experienced the Knicks fans in attendance were downright pissed off! It even seemed like they were mad enough to create a security risk inside the building.
I always seem to be shocked at the picks teams make. But then, once in a while it shows the “management rooms” from these teams and it looks like a bunch of geeks scrambling around on laptops. You’d think they didn’t already have several months to prepare for this date. I know it is hard to predict what happens before your pick comes up… but you wouldn’t think they would be more organized on what their goals are far ahead of draft day.
I know there is a lot more to this than probably all of us put together understand. Teams (and their staffs) have relationships with other teams (and their staffs)… so it isn’t just a matter of knowing what players are left in the draft when it comes your pick. There are communications open with all their connections for possible trade deals and most of that can’t be predicted too far ahead.
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I’m liking the Timberwolves in this draft. I cursed Towns through most of the season because of my disdain for the squid… but now that he’s gone from the big blue nation, I can respect him for what he is… a damn good player with tons of upside. Can’t wait to see him with Wigs and also Tyus Jones. Rumors have Rubio being traded… hopefully for another missing piece. Not sure what their team cap looks like now… but I’m guessing they still have room to deal.
Flip should have “flipped out” on their draft results!
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@drgnslayr Yeah, I cursed Towns all last season cuz of UK and Calimari. Now though, I hope him and Wigs and Lavine and Rubio ( I hope they keep him ) and Tyus Jones can improve like Golden State has over the last 4-5 years.
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Me, too. Minnesota should be a fun team to watch develop. Lots of talent, lots of youth… maybe they could use an old star in his final years to help grow up the young guys.
What do you think, LeBron… wanna be a Timberwolf?
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@drgnslayr (puke)
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No question Knicks fans were not pleased. The analysis of the draft I have read almost universally indicate that the the Knicks needed immediate help and not a long term prospect. Carmelo is not happy about it and feels betrayed by Phil Jackson.
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Timberwolves look like a dynasty in the making if the front office and coaches don’t mess it up. The talent is there for the next 10 years barring injuries.
They won’t win right away (the Warriors are going to be a force for a few more years), but they should certainly be crazy good.
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@JayHawkFanToo What bugs me is the decline in the correct usage of “to”, “too”, and “two”. But that is nothing compared to the use of “there” or “their” or even “they’re” as synonyms.
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So let me get this straight the Cavs trade away everything to win one championship. In the process they may have made the Wolves a dynasty? Is this what you’re saying? Got to love those can’t miss trades.
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The Cavs made a pact with the devil and now is time to pay up. TTBOMK, they have 7 unsigned players including LeBron, Love and Thompson and the only one they have re-signed is Mosgov.
The question is whether LeBron is an asset re-signing players or will they opt to go to another team where they don’t have to put up with him? Looks like Love will go elsewhere, likely LA or Boston.
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I hope Love goes to the Lakers. They deserve each other. Not saying Love is a bad guy. Just saying it’s like destiny.
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Wigs was only a disappointment, if you look at the game as if it were pre OAD and pre-stacking era.
In the present, and with the blinders off, Wigs year at KU was a fabulous success!
What other player than Wigs could have started from day 1, coasted 3/4 to half capacity 75% of the time, and still averaged 14.4 ppg, defended the other team’s toughest perimeter player effectively, rebounded decently, AND had two marquis games against lesser teams throwing in 30-40 points, so as to MAKE opponents guard him even though he was coasting? NOT ONE that I can think of except maybe Kidd-Gilchrist and he frankly had to play much nearer full capacity to be as good as he was.
Do you remember how Wigs some times didn’t even break a sweat?
The guy is an absolutely fabulous player.
He could coast as a freshman at a D1 elite and still be a difference maker.
It is frankly unprecedented in my recollection that a guy could be as dominant as he was coasting.
You’ve got to take the blinders off about the new rules of D1.
OAD’s COAST.
They all do now.
Duke’s footer center last season was waaaaaaay better than he was allowed to show. Same with UK’s freshman footer.
Once you take off the blinders, you are going to quit missing so much.I know, because I had the blinders on for much of Wigs OAD season at KU. I was actually naive enough to doubt his outside shooting, and some of his other abilities, and even his toughness. Was I flipping naive or what? He goes to the NBA and he is ROY and he still is playing no where near capacity. He certainly appears to be waiting to unleash everything he has AFTER the first contract ends and he starts making what he is really worth. He has to play harder in the NBA, but still he just doesn’t appear to be going full bore at all. The plan appears to avoid injury at all cost still and he can get away with doing it, because he is not playing for a contender and really doesn’t have to go full bore except occasionally to make it clear that he can beast on NBA players, too. And he is still a baby, really. Four years from now, he is going to be making the NBA say, “Lebron who?”
When you take the blinders off about OAD coasting, you will start not having unfulfilled expectations, too.
No true OAD is EVER going to live up to his hype again in D1, IMHO.
Wiggins and his father figured the game out.
They hit the jack pot doing it, too.
Wigs hasn’t got a scratch on him. Wigs is like Cassius Clay, before he laid out, got rusty and heavy, and became Muhammad Ali in the comeback. Wigs is purrrrrrrrty. He is too good for everyone. Clay was so good he could dance around and coast and taunt opponents and pick the round he would put them down. This is what we are dealing with here with Wigs, but without the mouth and bragging.
Wigs and Father Wigs are going to be endlessly emulated by the few true OADs and future NBA stars that pass through D1 each season until this rule is changed.
Now, not only discretion, but coasting, is the better part of valor.
Its is kind of an affront to persons like us that grew up on a value system of college players playing to the best of their abilities all the time, but its really no different than NBA players coasting for an entire NBA regular season, before turning it on for the play offs.
Its how it is when the game gets to be business at the player level, and not just at the D1 coaching level, and at the 501.c3 athletic department level, and at the PetroShoeCo level, and at the Big Media level, and at the Big Gaming level.
And that’s the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say.
Good day.
Of course, all of the above is hypothetical and opining, as usual. I am just a fan looking from the outside in. Who knows what actually goes on, right?
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Love would do great in LA, or Portland, or Seattle.
Love is a helluva of a player.
But it will take a coach with a brain to get the most out of him and as we learn each season, there are never more than about three or four NBA coaches that can think outside the box enough to use any player that does not fit the mold.
Jackson, Poppa, Kerr and maybe Doc are about it right now.
Riles and Danny Ainge would be a fifth and sixth, but they are trying to do it from the front office.
Bird would be a seventh, but he doesn’t want to do it.
Three to five years from now, the Cav’s coach should become one, but right now he is learning the ropes.
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Like Carmelo’s opinion counts for something, right? Howling!
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I’m afraid if Love hasn’t learned to play defense by now? He never will. Not sure good/great coaching can change that. Best option is to trade him for 3 #1 picks in the NBA Draft.
I’m just howling.
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Unless the two big fish in Minnesota decide they want a champ before the next generation inherits the oligopoly positions, there seems little chance that Wigs will be in Minnesota after the end of his first contract, so I kinda doubt there is going to be much development time to watch, so enjoy it while you can.
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True… you can never take anything for granted in the league. Here today, gone tomorrow… or a guy rips his second ACL…
