ISU and the Risk of More Inside Out
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Our strategy in this game should be pretty straight forward:
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defensive pressure. Guys making good screen switches and guarding the perimeter… some special attention to Niang
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limit TOs. This game will be won by possessions. And if they steal the ball and score in the open court, it neutralizes all that good defense we need to be playing.
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rebound, rebound, rebound. We have to crash the boards and at least match their rebounding. Like I said above, this game will be won by possessions.
I’m willing to turn my head and discount bad offensive play this game as long as we do the three things above because this is the best method to win this game.
It should be a typical Self “grind game.”
This will be a test on the toughness of this team. ISU just lost to Baylor. They aren’t going to want to lose two in a row, especially at home. I can see this getting very emotional and rough. Hope our guys play as tough as they look.
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@jaybate-1.0 I tend to frame most of my Jayhawk Hoops Thinking and Posting only along lines of Big 12 play. Especially at this stage of a Div. 1 hoops season, I wear blinders regarding post-league play. That was my approach to coaching, and that is the way I succeeded…and lost! I never lost a conference title, but, admittedly, ill-prepared my kids for state championship competition. My feeling was: Win the league; anything beyond is gravy. I still tend to feel that way, although I recognize that such thinking is diametrically opposed to that of most posters on this site, esp. High Elite Major. I do take pride and feel a sense of glory in post-season wins, but tend to see the big tournament as a crapshoot. I’d rather win the league title, then lose in 2nd round of the Tournament, than lose the Big 12 cup and advance to the Final Four. Heresy? HA! I think you might have touched deep truth regarding Bill’s thinking regarding the eventual outcomes for his current squad. I see him already thinking ahead. And, yeah, as much as I am opposed to the accumulation and loading of One-and Doners, he probably has decided to buy into the Kentucky/Duke flow. Sad, I feel. But must be done in order to compete successfully with such programs. Maybe a few Perry Ellises and Jeff Witheys can be offered and retained; but much more emphasis on fetching talent from among best 15 Rivals players to set foot on the planet annually. Kids already pencilled in to future lotteries. Stack em up at least five or six deep. But, Man O Man, how does Bill Self adjust his coaching to so many superathletes who will barely find time to read beyond page 10 of his playbook before they fly off and away? Can Bill adjust to frenetic life without a supporting bundle of third and fourth year knowledgeable and experienced players??? Can he continue to win…at his current 83+% pace? Does the Jayhawk Nation really give much of a damn, so long as KU advances yearly to the Final Four? Well, I ramble. Enough…for now.
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@drgnslayr This more than any game we’ve played so far in conference play will really test our defensive numbers. We haven’t allowed anyone to score more than 60 points on us so far, and I think if we can even hold ISU under 70 we will be in good shape. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think this team can score consistently enough to win a high score 90+ point shootout.
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This team absolutely can win in March. There is Elite Eight/ Final Four talent on this squad. But this team can’t win in March in the way that the 2012 team won in March, or the way that the 2008 team won the title.
No, this team can only win in March if they embrace the fact that they must ride the talents of Kelly Oubre, Frank Mason, Wayne Selden, Svi and Brannen Greene much moreso than the talents of Perry Ellis and the inside attack.
Perry is not Darrell Arthur, a future NBA player in the post. He’s not Thomas Robinson, or even Jeff Withey. He’s a very good basketball player, but its unfair to try to make him into those guys when that is simply not him.
KU found something by letting Perry pop out and become a face up shooter. It would be a shame to let that go because we are playing a team that doesn’t have as much size, especially when the identity of this team is more truly realized when the wings are attacking and Perry is getting shots off those attacks than going with Perry posting and hoping the wings get shots off that.
This team is an attacking, slashing, wing oriented team. If that embrace that, they can go deep into March. If they do not, they will lose in the Round of 32 again.
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@justanotherfan That was a great post. This team does have the ability to get it done.
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@REHawk This member of Jayhawk Nation does care a LOT about the future, if indeed the program evolves into a OAD factory. Im sure everyone here has pondered how that would change our passion and devotion to Jayhawk basketball… It really eats at me because it’s not just wins for me. it’s the whole amalgam, the history, the vibe, the attachment to the players and watching them grow. (Im happy actually that Wayne looks more and more like a 4-year guy ) All the former players seem SO connected for life to KU, which speaks to the magic. The cabinet of Dr calipari at UK is nothing more than an nakedly obvious NBA prep center that happens to housed at a well known university… Whats so magical about that?? If thats the future for KU, then i hope i can adjust and still love it .
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PHOF!
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PHOF for cutting to the essence of a game strategy. Thanks.
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Excellent post. Coach Self has always maintained, and many (if not most) of us agree, that winning the conference is the best way to prepare for the NCAA and getting a good seed. The conference this year is particularly good. The latest Bracketology has the Big 12 with 7 teams (70%) and no other conference comes even close; furthermore, 6 of the 7 teams have a seed of 6 or better and KU is now #2 seed. That is power any way you look at it and the best way to prepare for March.
BTW, IMHO I believe most posters in this forum agree with you.
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What great posts and a great Big 12 race this is shaping up to be. Baylor holding on to win vs ISU was large at this point in the season. The pressure to win Saturday night now sits squarely on the Cyclones. KU with a win becomes the front-runner similar to last year. A loss and we are still in the thick of the race.
Going 2-3 at ISU, Baylor, OU, Texas and WV gives KU a very likely upper hand in winning 11 in a row.-we already have 1 in the bag. All contenders must take care of business at KSU, at OSU and at TCU-not an easy task. KU has a very good chance of taking care of wins at home. It is so early but with a RPI rating of the Big 12-4 losses could easily mean a championship or co-champ to keep the streak alive.
This conference is tough and so is Bill Self’s team. I have not seen this toughness in a few years. Self teams that have done well are tough, grind out games on the road and play great defense. Since the break, this team has improved dramatically on the defensive end holding UNLV to 40%, Baylor to 35% at home and OSU in the low 30s.
I agree with REhawk-the conference titles are more important than March to me as a fan. National champs require great teams and some luck. This team could make a deep run if Cliff continues to improve but next year we could be in the title discussion.
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The knife cuts both ways.
We want really talented guys that fulfill their potential, but if they do, they are gone quickly.
Wayne may very well end up being a four year guy, but if he does, that’s another two years after this one of people wishing that Wayne was more consistent, and more aggressive, and that he did more, and wondering why he didn’t step up in certain games. If Wayne is a four year player, that’s great from a “getting to know him” perspective, but it’s a downer because that probably means that he didn’t ever reach the potential that we all thought he had when he arrived.
Some of the happiest moments I have had as a sports fan and a KU basketball fan in particular have been watching guys reach their potential.
One of the most disappointing players at KU was Eric Chenowith, who actually built a pretty solid career at KU as a part time big man. But most KU fans that you talk to remember Chenowith as a huge bust because he was supposed to be so much more.
To some extent, I would say Kenny Gregory fits into that mold. Billy Thomas, on the other hand, is pretty fondly remembered by most KU fans. Gregory was always the better player, but Thomas is perceived to have reached his potential, and therefore his memory ages better.
Seeing Thomas Robinson grow into what he did in three years was awesome. I wouldn’t have wanted him to not grow into the player he did when he did, because it was much more fun to see him develop into a lottery pick and leave after three years.
I want to see guys come, reach their potential and move on into their adult lives, whether that takes one year (Wiggins) or five (Releford).
I’m somewhat sad that it feels like Perry has taken a step back this year. For all of my criticism of him, I think he’s a tremendous player and overall person, at least from all of the reports I hear since I don’t know him personally. I would much rather see Perry having a season where he’s averaging 15 and 8 and is on the short list for the Wooden award. But that’s not the case.
I’m happy that Kelly is starting to break out. Does that mean he will probably be gone at the end of this season? Yes, but that’s better than seeing a kid with that kind of talent languishing and struggling to put it all together.
That’s the thing I want for every player, ultimately. I want to see them put it all together. For a guy like Christian Garrett, that means getting a couple of buckets at the Fieldhouse that he can tell his grandkids about. For Kelly Oubre, that means being a lottery pick. For Perry Ellis, that means being a fourth year star - not starter, STAR.
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From what I can see, most of the one and done players, if they could have a do over would stay in school 3 years. Thankful that Danny and Paul were here for more than one year!
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Nick and Kirk stayed for a fourth and went on to have long careers in the NBA. Both could retire soon and It would sure be nice to have a big man Like Nick come back and coach our Big Men. Nick was the modern day Kevin McHale and could make a big difference in coaching and in recruiting. Kirk will probably be a coach in the NBA where he mentored so many Newbies. The Wizards brought him in to DC just to show John Wall how things are done.
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@justanotherfan Ditto on Robinson… And yes the essence of what makes watching this team so fulfilling for me (and probably everyone else) over the years is the players like him who had such a great arc. and yes kinda tough to see the not-so- great arcs too, but “potential” is a harsh mistress- just ask Wiggins who was a bery good player who could never match his expectations Another way of thinking about it is to make a list of your alltime favorite (favorite not best) KU players you’ve watched (i have only been religiously watching for 17 years ) - for my list there is no OAD even cracking the top 20. Easily my least favorite was Selby.
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We are far, far, far out to sea now.
IMHO, there are things Self is dealing with here beyond this season and this team that would already have shattered lesser men than Self–The SHOEWARS, specifically.
For this reason, I am willing to see Bill’s way as valid, even though you and I are advocating another path base on a different goal–a ring.
The point here is that Bill and Rick are NOT coaching on a level playing field.
When Self coaches in the Big 12, he is coaching against 8 other programs that are not being stacked. And he is coaching against a 9th program, Texas, that may, or may not be, joining the stacked list.
The Big 12 is a conference of non stacks.
Self is trying to win that, because that is a realistic goal.
Self proved in 2012 that he can take a non stacked team to the Finals if he has one rim protector, a good PG, and a draft choice 4. But even when he did that, he came up against a Nike stack in the Finals and lost.
Rings are increasingly unfeasible right now, unless you are a healthy Nike, or adidas stack. I know UConn squeezed through the filter last season, and persons say they weren’t stacked, but they lucked out, because Embiid got injured, Stumpy can’t coach a lick even with a stack, and Noels did not come back, so NIke-UK just didn’t have enough experience to finish even though stacked.
I read your post first, and I read @REHawk’s post second.
Clearly my logic and sense of fight is on your side.
But @REHawk is speaking from the philosophical point of view of a coach that has had to think of the best interests of young men and a program, and so I not only respect his POV on this, but also have thought it through carefully.
The bottom line is this: a coach’s job is to read the situation of a season and do the best he can for his young men and his program, but always do so given the realities of the situation.
Leaders can and should aspire to and inspire to greatness for it is important for young men to learn that greatness is not limited only to those that have all the advantages.
At the same time, leaders should teach their young men the nature of reality and what greatness involves, and that reality’s unfairness is as real and in need of acknowledging, as is reality’s opportunities for greatness.
If I understand @REHawk’s POV, and what I believe is Self’s POV, this season’s philosophy, and may be all season’s philosophies, goes something like this.
A coach can give a great deal to a group of young men by showing them that hard work at individual and team improvement, sacrifice of self to team, and learning to release of competitive greatness are things that are within our reasonable grasp to achieve in a conference season. Winning a conference title and achieving a good record, are important and lasting distinctions of accomplishment that cannot be taken away from an individual, or a team of individuals, any more than a ring can be taken from them. The ring is the greatest achievement of all. But the odds of its achievement are very small, unless one has all of the pieces and three every game MUA at 3 of 5 positions, and even then risks of injuries, bad calls, and off nights, make a ring a risk with very long odds. Specifically the rough odds are 1 in 64, or something less with a high seed, starting in March. But the odds of winning the Big 12 are 1 in 10, and with KU’s level of talent and coaching, probably something less. Thus for a coach like Self, or @REHawk, it seems unwise not to focus on winning the conference, since it is something lasting and real that their young men can carry with them the rest of their lives with considerable probability, and given that winning it does more to put them in position to get a high seed in the post season, which is greatest gift of winning of all that he could give them.
But each season, a leader must look at what is feasible. Some times the best we can probably be is a conference champ. Some times the best we can probably be is conference champ and a national champ.
So: given that Bill apparently thinks the surest way to a conference title, is to be able to play both inside out and outside in, he is continuing to labor on getting his guys so they can play inside out in a conference, where they are not really smaller than 8 of their 9 opponents.
In turn, if they learn to play this way, and if Self can work his usual coaching magic and find a way to finesse Barnes one out of two, Self can do his best to give his young men the best they can hope for, given their level of talent: a conference title and a seed high enough that if they were to tap deeply enough into their own abilities, and get some luck, they MIGHT make a run.
But if they don’t, that is alright, too. They don’t really have talent comparable to 8 of the top ten teams currently, because of SHOEWARs. That is not their fault. And it probably is not Self’s fault. It is probably the fault of the NCAA and Nike and adidas and KU, and in a short time, Louisville, are odd elite programs out.
I know you can probably tell that I am struggling defending the position of Self and @REHawk; that it is not where my heart lies.
My heart lies always with the daring enterprise outside the box. It is who I am. So: I am not a coach of young men for a reason. A coach of young men–at least honorable ones like Self and @REHawk --has to think of things like trade-offs about how much he probably can give his young men to take away for all their hard work, rather than just the long shot of winning it all and being a champion for the rest of their lives.
Leadership is full of such uneasy trade-offs, where leaders must subordinate their ideals, morals, intense ambitions and furious competitiveness to the greater good of those they lead and the country they are pledged to deliver through peril to live to fight another day.
Lincoln compromised virtually every value he held in an attempt to prevent the Crown of Great Britain, the Habsburgs, and France from dividing and conquering both USA and Mexico, simultaneously. People still do not honor him for what he really did. They misunderstand what he was up against and what he did. Little people pick out his flaws and his prejudices. Little people reduce the greatness of what he did to single issues, like slavery, or winning a war, or railroads, or greenbacks. What he did was deliver for an entire people, even as his own base was trying to use him to highjack control, and his opposition was trying to succeed from the Union, the greatest, the only worthy thing about America–government of the people, by the people and for the people, so that such government should not perish from this earth, as it was surely on the verge of doing, and as it again is in peril of doing.
Our Presidents have always had to make some of the most horrific choices between what they ideally wanted for America and what was then feasible to deliver the country from its immediate predicament–one that usually what had been created by a long process before they came to office.
Our presidents are elected by narrower, and narrower private oligarchies, but they must still, if they are to be more than lackeys, act in the interest of the greatest good they can perceive and achieve for all the people; that they often cannot achieve much is often the product of the complexity of the context such a leader must operate in. The only ones we should loath are those that decline to do the best for the most when such was feasible.
Lincoln had to have known that the moment he printed greenbacks to take financing the Civil War out of the hands of the Bank of England, which was then not only financing both the North and South against each other, but also financing the European great powers conquest of Mexico, so as to both divide and conquer USA, but also to make sure that neither faction of the USA would ally with Mexico to control an interocean canal through central America, that he would surely be assassinated as soon as the moment were right. And yet Lincoln did it, because he apparently knew that despite the complexity of the forces at play, and the hateful greed of great fortunes pursuing trade route monopolies and the inhumane viciousness of sunk costs in slavery, a moment had improbably presented itself to cement the existence of USA for at least another half century, if only he were willing to risk his own life for every American then and for all peoples after that might one day escape the darkness of non-representational orders controlling representational governments because USA did not perish from this earth.
Leadership can be lonely.
I believe there is much more at stake here than the 2014-2015 season.
I believe that at another time, under different circumstances, Self might act differently than he is.
You and I know that the most logical way, probably the only way, for this team to win a ring is to play outside in all season long, master it, and hope to get hot and stay hot six games in March.
I suspect Bill Self understands this too.
But I suspect Bill Self, as @REHawk has eloquently and without sugar coating stated, understands the logic of what we are both saying, and has other obligations to discharge as well.
He has to think of more than one great daring enterprise.
He has to think of what is the best he can do for these players now this season and for the continuity of KU basketball within the context of SHOEWARS.
Perhaps a conference title IS the only lasting accomplishment that seems probably within these young men’s talents to grasp and achieve and so attribute the accomplishment to more than just lady luck.
And if they win the conference title, then their chance of lady luck smiling on them just grew significantly greater due to the tournament seeding process.
And winning a conference title would be at least some kind of accomplishment supporting the bridging of the program into the coming transition into the OAD/TAD recruiting waters.
But damn, I sure would like to see this team play outside in for this season.
But damn, I’m not the coach.
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I know that I have often referred to the Big Tournament as a crapshoot; and am fairly certain that some of our best posters disagree with that simple estimate. Actually, I refer mostly to the Elite 8, Final 4, Title games. I, too, will be very unhappy to see us lose the opening round; even the second game. After that, I see it as a toss-up. Almost like flipping a coin…though not quite. I do hope (and somehow TRUST) that this squad and coaching staff will develop winning ways outside the customary Bill Self Parameters. Has already been a stretch, but slashing and outside shooting has paid heady dividends. I await Cliff Alexander’s soon to be meteoric rise to 28 minute prominence!
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I have mentioned on several occasion that I would love to see Collison come back and coach the bigs. He is one of my favorite Jayhawk players of all time and he is getting near the end of his career in the NBA.
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@JayHawkFanToo I happily concur with both you guys re the Collison thing. If the guy has the ability to recruit, what a CATCH that would be!
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@jaybate-1.0 Man, did you ever capture the essence of what I was feebly trying to say in a nutshell!!! Thanks for helping me to SEE what I have for a longtime FELT! For 3 years or so I have wrangled more than somewhat with HEM; although I certainly bow to his superior knowledge and understanding of this game. I admire his posts and cannot begin to approach or even fully comprehend the depth of his Xs/Os delineations. You two guys and a handful of other posters almost daily present some marvelous hoops posts. I am more of a FEEL guy, a RELATIONSHIPS type of poster. I do appreciate your steady feedback and acknowledgements, jb. All in all, isn’t this a splendid season to follow Bill Self and current Jayhawk Basketball? The KU Hoops Universe seems occasionally to be spinning almost counter to anything we have witnessed in the past 12 years.
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@jaybate-1.0 Every so often when I read your post I forget that you’re talking about basketball. I’m sure, at one time in your life you were some kind of teacher similar to the Priest that taught at Rockhurst college where I picked up some credits so that I could be a teacher. He taught macro-economics but always explained his theories using the Chicago Cubs to deliniate his positions. You have become my “Father Dudenhoffer” of basketball. The Lincoln paragraph was a direct reference to Self using Lucas in the second half instead of Cliff. It was obvious.
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@wrwlumpy “Father Dudenhoffer of Jayhawk Basketball…” Ah, nice. Many of us will not forget to refer back to that nomenclature!
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Ah, suren’ it twas, sir.
And you were already bein’ my own Fatter Dudenhoffer with your collages, sir, quite a bit more than I to you, I should say.
Suren’ ya were, suren’ ya were!
Perhaps you’ll be forming your graphical duden shortly, too, sir.
I shall look upon it with delight and fancy in the showin’ and not tellin’ it will do.
And the little people, sir, they surely must be enlivenin’ your door.
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The key to winning this game is scoring more than they will. I know cliche but its true in this game.
They score 80 points a game, KU scores 71. Although competition in their last 4 games has brought down their avg’s considerably we will have to score. We cannot have a bad night offensively and expect to walk away with their fans crying again.
If I had to pick one guy we need to shutdown to win its Naz Long. He has become a key part of their offense and with 43 of his 63 made baskets 3’s yeah we need to be on him like we are trying to steal his wallet. They make 10 3’s at home they will win, unless we have some heroism effort from someone.
Hopefully we come out early hitting shots and find a way to stop their spread offense.
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ISU is averaging 70 points in conference play and in the last 3 games (2-1) they have out scored their conference opponents by a total of 3 points (2 OSU, 2 WVU, -1 BU). KU has averaged 69 points and outscored its 3 conference opponents by 42 points ( BU 1, TTU 31, OSU 10).
Defense-wise, in conference play ISU has allowed 69 ppg and KU has allowed 55 ppg.
Both teams beat OSU at home, ISU by 2 and KU by 10.
Both played Baylor away, KU won by one ISU lost by 1
P.S. Playing TTU skews the stats in KU’s favor.
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It depends.
If ISU shoots 25 or more treys, and is shooting its average or better, KU will have to shoot treys a nearly equivalent number and percentage of treys, and hold ISU to 5-8 fewer shot attempts to win the game. It can do this with stripping, blocks, alters and rebounding on the defensive end, coupled with protecting it on the offensive end and an edge in offensive rebounding.
If ISU shoots a poor percentage on its treys, then Self can afford to muddy it up, stay inside out looking for the inside trey, and shoot less than 15 treys outside, rebound mightily on both ends and grind out a W.
What Self does depends largely on the first five trey attempts by ISU.
Increasingly, this is how it is with every game.
Self has to be forced into matching 3ptas.
He won’t do it willingly.
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Quite the thread.
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Yes, my thoughts, exactly.
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I think Iowa St will come out on fire. This will be our most hostile environment we will play in all year. Other than the Georgetown game, we haven’t been good on the road. It will probably take the best game of the year from KU to pull it out. Since Fred has made this series relevant again its taken a whole new life as evidence by the Gameday crew in town.
I thought before conference play started that we would lose. The 3-0 start has changed my view some and Baylor pulling it out against them last night has given me more optimism but I won’t be devastated if we drop this game.
Conference stats seem to show we have a good chance. I’m thinking we need Mason, or Oubre to hit for 20 pts and Selden & Ellis to do better than 3-15.
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@drgnslayr I think we’ll make 20 3 pointers against the Clones. Our offense has been waiting for a cherry cheese cake match up like the Clones. I think we brutalize them, and their punk fan base…
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I got tons of man love for one Jethro Jayhawk fan! I’m a believer. Sign me up for 20 3 pointers.
I see the outcome of this year as a contest. Not so much between us and other teams. I see this as a contest from within our own team.
I put some players on one side… the tough side… Frank, Kelly, Cliff, Devonte, BamBam…
And I put some players on the other side… the side that often plays soft… Perry, Wayne, sometimes Brannen, Svi and Landen.
I view the outcome of this year as a battle of wills. Which side will win over move support from the other side?
I’ve been on a lot of teams. And it only takes one or two guys being soft to ruin a team.
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You must have been flipping great fun to play with. Wish I had at least gotten to be on your pick up team a few times. It must have been a gas.
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@jaybate-1.0 Yeah, but what if you got picked on the other team? No fun at all…
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Before I played some on the playground that’s what I would have thought for sure, but after? Oh, no, it would have been even more fun playing against him. I just would have lost without someone as good on my team.
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I’m thinking some of the inside out play in the OSU game was to try to keep from having a hot game from outside when we didn’t need it. @jaybate-1.0 always talks about shooting back to averages and wouldn’t it be nice to have those averages on the way up on the road at ISU. We shot 3-12 last game after scorching Tech with 11-22. Self couldn’t afford to let the guys go nuts from deep for a second game in a row and then most certainly be due for an off game from outside. Outside shooting is so streaky and unpredictable. Even really really good 3% teams will have the occasional 3-15 or 5-20 game. And it is very tough to win such a game.
We are better than OSU and had a great plan to wear out Forte by throwing length, then speed, then length, then more speed at him. He could barely walk out of that gym in the end. He wasn’t hurt, he was tired… We simply didn’t need an outside in game against those short cowboys so why not gamble and try to save up for another hot shooting night at Hilton. I think Self might think he can beat this law of averages stuff. Let the team shoot bad from 3 on an inside out night when you can afford it to let them get hot on a night when we need it.
Every shooter knows that shooting gets easier after the first make. After Kelly made his first, did we go back to him? What about Wayne? Frank shot 5 but only made the last one (not 100% sure on that but it was definitely late!)! This might give even more insight into Greene’s 3 minutes. His first shot was for the team a terrible shot. Selfish, hot doggin, and instigating. Don’t want to nail one right in the face of their best shooter to light even more of a fire under him. BUT, it was a confident shot. Leave Greene in that game and no doubt he makes 3 or 4 shooting with that kind of confidence. So… sit him and piss him off for 37 minutes to hopefully let him loose against the Cyclones.
Jaybate is calling Perry going off this game, I say Greene has another 5 trey, 20 pt night! Go Brennan Go!!!
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@jaybate-1.0 @REHawk @drgnslayr @etc. I wish my students cared as much about KU basketball as I do (or basketball period here in Texas) so that I could make them read some of these posts. It would be nice to show them what real analysis, complex inferences, and great writing looks like when done for fun! Keep it coming everybody!
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@KUSTEVE Unfortunately, we’ll be lucky to attempt 20 three pointers Saturday.
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Heck yeah! To both posts.
FWIW, students, like adults, can taste the difference between the authentic and the inauthentic. The whole society can; that’s why so much money has to be spent on PR and propaganda to ensure “right thinking.”
But students need the perspective of teachers like you to learn how to read first on and then between the lines in order to take good care of themselves.
We are just a bunch of board rats. You are the real deal!
Rock Chalk to you for teaching them HOW to READ, not just look at the words.
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U R right of course. Rome was not built in a day.
But dobber up, sir! TGIF!
We need you at full force!!!
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" My feeling was: Win the league; anything beyond is gravy."
" I do take pride and feel a sense of glory in post-season wins, but tend to see the big tournament as a crapshoot"
“he probably has decided to buy into the Kentucky/Duke flow.”
Excellent post!
I definitely came from your side of the fence. Over time, I’ve balanced out with plenty of HEMs views on March.
I think a blend of you and HEM makes the right approach.
Accepting March as only “gravy” creates lots of issues today. Expectations come at college basketball programs from many directions… fans… media… donors… and last (but not least) recruits. There is no way we can stay in a bubble and only focus on conference play. If we do that, we eventually get eaten away by the growing cancer surrounding our failing March performances.
Flipping sides now… but if we don’t focus on Big 12 play we lose a big chunk of our real reputation for being a powerhouse and letting it all ride on the “crap shoot” in March. Conference play is our opportunity to really show our dominance (and land high seeds in March). And it is our Big 12 play (with Self) that has lifted Kansas back as one of the top blue bloods again, more than our NC in '08.
Flipping sides now… however… if we hadn’t won back with Danny and back in '08, we also wouldn’t be accepted with the same “elitism” we are viewed now.
What I’m getting at is the need for balance. Really… conference and March are both important! We need to fight hard enough in conference not only to win our conference, but to create a margin where we can develop more of our bench for March and also to try other strategies that can help us in March. We can’t really sacrifice our standings in the conference to focus on March. That’s why it is crucial we build a margin in Big 12 standings and also in games. First things first, and winning conference is first!
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“You must have been flipping great fun to play with”
Not always. The issues with other players on the team is a huge factor with every team. Sometimes, in my case, it lead to physical fights in locker rooms and parking lots. Sometimes that helped because it allowed players to vent out everything and later come together in a bar over drinks. The guys I fought with most usually turned out being my best friends. At least they had the balls to stand up and fight! This is one way for players to bond as a team. But it doesn’t always work. Some guys never get away from the “one upsmanship.” Some players hold deep inner resentment.
All the inner workings end up being expressed out on the court during a season. Always.
I see a lot of great things with this team. I do sense a lot of team emotion. These guys defend each other. These guys support each other. The bond is there. I haven’t seen this bond since TRob’s last season.
No one on this team is selfish. They are all willing to give up their own stats or PT for another guy that can help win games.
There is a lot of desire to win with these guys. That’s why we tend to win the close games. And that’s why we really stink when we lose. Turns out it is the will of the team that determines our outcomes… as it should be!
The key now is to get the team to focus on the next game. Then the game after that. etc. Be prepared for every game. Play them one at a time. Build momentum over time… organically.
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The NCAA tournament is really a crap-shoot; I am as loyal KU fan as there is but KU winning in '88 was a fluke. On the other hand, there were other years when it should have won and it did not.
If you shoot pool, you know that players that concentrate on the 9 ball seldom win. Yo have to play the ball at hand and position yourself for the next one, always keeping you eye on the 9 ball, until you get to the 9 ball. If you start concentrating only on the 9 ball you will miss the ball at hand and never get to the 9 ball; this is what all the top players do.
We can extend the analogy to basketball and you play to win the game at hand and then the conference, which in turn will prepare you for the tournament and get you a high seed. Remember when UK was concentrating on the tournament and taking the regular season for granted? They ended up losing to Bobby MO in the first round of the frigging NIT. Nothing prepares you better for the tournament than a good run in your own conference. A few weeks ago Pick Pitino stated that the only reason the tournament is single elimination is to give EVERY team a chance (basically, a crap-shoot); if the format is changed to a best of X, then only the elite teams would have shot. Look at it, last year UConn was not even a top 20 team with 26-8 overall record and 12-6 conference record and with a good run in March ended up winning the title…who would have predicted it. If you don’t win your own conference, how can you expect to win the national title?
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Been there. Done that!
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Am I the only one that does not have a problem with Jamari’s T?
To me, the “T” sent a message to the younger players that the older, bigger players had their backs. Also, the “T” ignited the crowd and the team and it went on 9-0 run that started to set some separation. I am sure Self was upset because it cost 3 points and one foul but I will guess that deep inside he was proud of Mari and how his actions brought the team together.
It reminds of one time when I was called to my son’s principal’s office because he had gotten in a fight at school. As it turned out, there was on older, bigger kid that kept bulling the younger kids; at recess he went after my son and his friends and was told to go away and he finally shoved a girl to the ground. This is when my son turned around and drop the kid with one punch (I had taught him some boxing) and the bully would not get up until a teacher would come to help him. At the principal’s office I told my son that it was not a good thing to punch another kid, all the while I had a big grin on my face. The principal asked my son to leave the office so he could “talk” to me, and then he proceeded to tell me that I should not be smiling because the next time it happened there would be serious consequences for my son. I told him I was grinning because I was proud that my son had not only stood up to the bully but also stood up for his friend, and if it ever happened again he would not be seeing me but my attorney who would be getting his information so we could sue him personally as well the school district for allowing bulling…of course it helped that the parents of several other kids that had been bullied were waiting outside the office. He was never bullied again and at the end of the term I understand the other kid was “asked” to transfer to a different school. My kid was never bullied again and he did not get into any other fights in school.
Afterwards, I had a long talk with my son on this issue and at the end I gave him the same advice Mr. Myagi gave Julie in the Karate Kid…
Julie-san, fighting not good. But if must fight… win.
It still brings a smile to my face when I think about it 20 years later…maybe I am too much old school. I hope Coach Self will also remember it positively in the future.
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“The NCAA tournament is really a crap-shoot; I am as loyal KU fan as there is but KU winning in '88 was a fluke.”
I totally agree… that the tourney is a crap-shoot. But we still can’t discount it and not consider it until March. Any single game in March is a crap-shoot. However, over time March is not a crap-shoot. When you look at the broad stats over time, March is not a crap-shoot. Kentucky winning all those championships wasn’t a crap-shoot, neither are ours.
You have to build enough structure to win in March. That doesn’t mean you win every game in March. As you said, it is a crap-shoot. But you need to put yourself into position to win in March. By doing that, over time, you will show positive results. Any fan thinking his team is going to win out in March every year is delusional.
Some of the focus on March has to happen before March. You can’t go into March with an inexperienced bench and expect to win. By putting some focus on March before March you open yourself up to better things happening in March. That still doesn’t mean it isn’t a crap-shoot. It is!
There is a reason why many of the blue blood programs have the most tournament wins. They have more of the pieces in place to win in March. Doesn’t mean a blue blood program wins this March. However… it is more likely a blue blood program wins it. For many reasons, including having a certain degree of focus on March before March. That is a big part of UCONN’s success. Here is an example of a non-blue blood program piercing through to victories in March. Often times, they can’t even win their conference but win out in March. How is that so? This is one of the teams that puts a great deal of focus on March, and it has been an effective strategy to lifting their program all around. It has helped them land top guards, and guards is their focus. That’s part of their March strategy.
“Am I the only one that does not have a problem with Jamari’s T?”
I see both sides to that coin. He doesn’t need to demonstrate the lack of discipline all the time. But what he did was put a rubber stamp on this season that he and Cliff have everyone’s back.
We needed that T. We needed someone besides Self having to be the one that shows fight. We need that to soak in to players like Perry. That should have been Perry. But just this once, and perhaps one more time later if the team needs the reinforcement again.
You can’t let any opposing player push around one of your players. That sinks in the subconscious. It’s the start of a subordinate role, something you never want to get into with your foes, unless it is them caving in!
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@JayHawkFanToo good story! I’m not sure what words came out of Mari’s mouth, but can guess. The bad thing was Mari got in foul trouble and had limited minutes.
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1 “T”, 3 ft by the Smurf on Steroids - Part Deux, 1 foul on Jamari that limited playing time - COSTLY
Change in momentum and gain in team chemistry -** PRICELESS**
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“Julie-san, fighting not good. But if must fight… win.”
Amen to that!
I was a big kid as a preteen. Kids started picking on me. Calling me racial slurs. Every time a kid did that, I beat him up! I didn’t have to beat up too many kids before they stopped calling me names. From that point forward, I had earned respect and I was rarely challenged. I also stuck up for kids that were teamed up on. Sometimes I felt like a kid cop.
There was one kid that was known as the biggest bully around. He stole my bike, which was his big mistake. Turned out to be the best thing he ever did! What that kid didn’t know was that theft represented the 5th time my bike was stolen! I was in no mood to settle for a conversation about getting my bike back.
When I found out the kid had stole my bike, I marched to his house and I kicked the crap out of him! He had never experienced a whooping! His mother saw it all and came out to confront me. I told her the reason I gave him a smack-down was because he stole my bike (as I gathered my bike and left). She didn’t say a word and looked on.
Later, at a HS reunion, that kid came up and thanked me. He was a horrible bully until that point, and after his whooping he realized just how bad he was victimizing other kids so he stopped. Actually turned the other direction and started standing up for victims.
Every kid doesn’t learn from these experiences… but many do. I had to learn my lessons, too… I was just fortunate enough to learn it early on.
This is an area I target Perry.
The real lesson is that we are all vulnerable. We all have to fight for what we get because others are there to take things away from us if we don’t; our stuff, dignity, identity, future and safety! You have to build character inside to stand up to the bullies, even if you get your butt kicked! Know that it is a lesson and will make you stronger. But don’t back down! Any push coming my way and I’ll push back harder! (exceptions being when someone has a gun!)
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@drgnslayr said:
(exceptions being when someone has a gun!)
Julie-san, fighting not good, But if must fight…win (exception being gun toting psychopath, then run like hell at 45 degree angles!)
Note: that was an allusion to your 45 degree angle of escape comment awhile back, if the evil of football has not robbed that post from your memory banks.
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Ah, I am feeling a mighty fine game day brewing, how about you?
Be sure to brew up a batch of your best, healthiest juices so that you will be at full strength.
Say, I have noticed you have not come over to JNewell’s live blog to talk up the game in real time.
I believe some of your knowledge would be of assistance during the games.
Might you consider virtual attendance for the ISU contest?
