A New Nickname??

  • Banned

    Ok I worked late tonight, had to DVR the game. 🙂

    Let me just say before I give out this new nickname. I love this kid and wouldn’t trade him for any of UK"s OAD’s. I believe we need this kid to overcome and stake his claim. Kind of like Travis Releford.

    I love you Perry Ellis but you are (wait for it)

    Wait for it

    Wait for it.

    Butterfingers. 🙂

  • @DoubleDD

    Just posted some Perry thoughts in another topic… and I too like him and want him to overcome (don’t see him being near as good or valuable as Rele though). But yea, Butterfingers is about right. Maybe some kind of stickem for his hands?? 🙂

  • retweeted by Cliff.


  • @DoubleDD

    Wouldn’t that nickname apply to Lucas instead? he bobbled several passes right under the basket that if caught would have been sure dunks.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Exactly! Lucas has the more buttery fingers of the two of them. I lost count of how many times Lucas got the ball in the post and either lost the ball, made a bad pass out of the post, or simply missed an easy shot. I truly hate when he is in the game. Gray hairs are coming in at a rapid rate when he is on the floor.

    I don’t get it with Perry. It seems like both Perry and Selden feed off of how they start the game. If they hit a few shots early you can expect great things. If they have bad starts (Perry and his 4 TO’s in first few minutes last night) you can assume they will bad games. There are of course exceptions (Selden against Baylor) but this seems to be how they play the majority of the time.

    I love how Mason is playing. I love how Oubre is playing. Cliff seems to be a huge force when he is not fouling and Jamari has been playing better ball if you don’t count last night. All that said if Perry and his butter fingers and Selden and his inability to make layups continue we are in huge trouble come March. Those guys NEED to be playing at a high level for us to have any chance at making a run. Can they both play well 5-7 games in a row which is what we will need in March? I hope so…but we have not seen that yet.

  • He did grab 8 rebounds, a couple very hard fought. Second on the team, and probably the highest per minute rebounds last night (Mason led the team with 9, but in 10 more minutes of playing time).

  • @wrwlumpy

    Fabulous pic!!!

  • @icthawkfan316

    Agree, Perry is struggling but he keeps finding ways to contribute, and, as I wrote a week ago, Self is letting him struggle while Self helps others. Perry is sort of in a toughening box Self has built for him on the floor!

    And Perry is self correcting more and more. Self had to pull him early, but that is the first time in awhile. Mostly Perry avoids his approaches to the event horizon on his own now.

    And folks including me need your reminder the 8-9 Reebs in a low possession game is a good night’s work!

    Perry just has the odd habit of cluster copulating early which sticks in folks minds.

    We must remember this is a young man who once hung 32 or something in a D1 game.

    Notice Self is denying him his basic spin move to force him to develop.

    The next game or three I expect Self to scheme some for Perry and Perry will look good again.

    Being the guy is lonely while you are learning to deliver without help.

  • @DoubleDD

    Perry actually has pretty good hands.

    Bringing up Releford actually brought something to mind, though. Perry came into college as a big time offensive threat. However, this season has seen him struggle offensively and he has had to start adapting his game on the fly. To his credit, I am seeing some progress in that respect on both ends of the floor.

    Releford had much the same struggle when he arrived at KU. Many may not know, but Releford was a very good slasher/ scorer in HS. He put up some pretty big numbers at Bishop Miege even though they played a slow down style of game.

    At KU, though, he was not looked at as a scorer and molded himself over time into one of the best defenders we have had during the Self era.

    Perry seems to be doing much the same now, molding himself into a stronger rebounder and a better defender. Let’s hope the progress continues.

  • I, too, have been very frustrated by Ellis’ play this season, but I would be willing to bet that the most frustrated person of all is Perry himself.

    I believe that last year Jaybate said that Ellis played like a “furiously committed Trappist monk” (excuse me if I am misquoting you, Jaybate, or not giving credit to the proper person). I though that was the best summing-up phrase ever. You do not become the valedictorian of your class and achieve that level of athletic success without being driven from within or without. This year he looks depressed to me. I think his body language is very telling. I love all the nicknames that the players are given, but I would like to see them limited to positive ones. How would we feel if the students in the opposing bleachers started chanting “butterfingers” at him (or at Lucas)?

    On a totally different subject, why did Alexander receive the technical? I have seen other players do the same. Did he mouth off at someone? If so, it was not obvious on television. Trappist Monk, he is not!

  • @icthawkfan316

    You are right, he did indeed had 8 hard fought boards, he also had 3 steals and 2 blocks…but why look at the good things he did when it is easier and more fun to point out the things he did wrong…shaking my head…not at you Ict.

    I bet this is the favorite game of some posters in this forum…


  • @JayHawkFanToo

    Love the art!

    Now… just put a mallet in Self’s hands. He needs to whack on all of these guys!


    ““furiously committed Trappist monk””

    Ha! That describes him well… as does “the designer.” No one questions Perry’s overall drive. I bet he has worked harder in the gym to get where he is more than any other player. But… he spent too much of his developmental years in gyms by himself or playing with inferior, short players. Clearly, he never had to fight for his game… something that happens when playing players at a higher level (and with height), and other players with swagger. Perry has absolutely no swagger. I’ve never seen a player with no swagger before. None.

    Perry needs playground basketball in a tough neighborhood. These guys would push Perry. Kick him around. And Perry could never get his shot off in those games. ALL of his shots would get blocked! Even on the little guys. He would be made fun off, pushed around and beat up. Everything he needs to get him out of his current comfortable existence. He needs to have his manhood questioned. He needs to go home crying, having been beat down and look hard in a mirror. He missed this opportunity in his youth. The part where he has to go out and prove to himself who he is. He doesn’t have that. He’s soft and mushy. The wrong personality for a pro career in basketball and the wrong personality to lead a D1 team.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Love it.

  • @JayHawkFanToo I’d rather put forte, Nash, ford, 3 refs in there, maybe, never mind!!

  • @drgnslayr I agree with much of what you say about building a basketball player. I don’t believe Perry has the makings of a professional ball player, although I hope he proves me wrong if that is what he wants. I do believe he has the makings of a successful human being. He has brains, he will have a degree, and, from what I understand, he is a good person.

  • @lincase said:

    How would we feel if the students in the opposing bleachers started chanting “butterfingers” at him

    Excellent point… and on reflection a bad nickname idea, but I feel the frustration it was born from. It’s not easier, nor more fun to point out flaws (for me anyways)… I think it’s more that we have such a great set of kids year after year, we set unreasonable expectations for them if they don’t live up to them every game. I’ve said it many times… we are a spoiled bunch of fans (no malice, I like being spoiled 🙂

    To add to JayhawkfanToo pointing out he had 8 boards, 3 steals and two blocks - he also made 5-6 free throws, some right at a time everyone else was throwing bricks from the line.

    Here’s hoping Jaybate’s thoughts on Self’s toughening box for him works and he makes some B12 team(s) pay dearly in a game soon - I’ll be the first to point it out!

  • I’ve recently wondered if part of the reason for Perry’s performance is that teams are keying on him more than anyone else… Early in the season, Perry had some great games and established himself as the leading scorer (and no one rises to become the leading scorer more quietly than Perry).

    Any team that wants to stop KU ought to focus on the leading scorer, who just happens to be the most experienced player on the team as well… He’s been playing significant minutes since his freshmen year… had good experience in the summers… He’s been pretty tough to stop unless you put some focus on him, like the B12 teams have.

    The BEST news is that everyone is learning that just because you stop Perry, you haven’t stopped Kansas. Everyone else is picking up around him.

  • @bskeet I have been thinking this too. I posted on another thread that I feel Cliff’s low minutes might be for this very reason. Jaybate mentioned Self forbidding Perry’s favorite spin move. I don’t know that I would go that far, but it is certainly possible that Perry has figured out that everyone, even outside the big 12, knows he uses that move a lot and waits on it. He is definitely out of his comfort zone and I don’t necessarily think that is a bad thing but it sure looks ugly right now.

    I’m not an experienced enough player or coach (I do neither very well) but doesn’t his jumper look a little weird recently. I notice it most on those trailing threes and baseline jumpers he has been taking more of. It looks almost like the ball is coming off his palm and not his fingers. That can mess with rotation and touch, which has certainly been lacking around the rim. On his free throws you usually see him swish or clang hard off the rim. OSU had many freebies rolling around the rim and falling in and that is no fluke. Forte and Nash both showed good touch at the line. Perry’s touch is clearly off right now. Could it be mechanics? He is certainly in his own head. I do expect him however to come out of it. I don’t think he has peaked as a player. He can still learn and improve and get better. I believe he will.

  • After hearing all summer how he was “the best player at _____ _____ camp” I was really pumped to see him play. I thought maybe he had improved drastically. But he appears to be the same Perry of old. I think coaches are telling the guys guarding him to not leave their feet and wait for the spin move because it’s coming… And it is leading to a lot of help side swats and steals. And he still gets shoved around under the basket like he’s your little brother.

  • @lincase

    No doubt, Perry is a quality person. I could see him become a priest. I know he focuses on his faith.

    But basketball takes a different personality. It’s not a game of “turn the other cheek”… it’s a game of “hit them back!”


    Exactly right. I’ve never seen a KU big get his shots blocked half as much as Perry does. He seems to get 3 to 5 shots blocked every single game, regardless of the height of our competition. That’s because his shot always worked in “theoretical basketball.” The real world, not so much.

  • @bskeet

    Spot on. If you TIVo the game and replay it you will see that Perry is frequently double teamed; in fact, he is the only KU player that is regularly double teamed.

  • Banned

    I think some of you have me all wrong. 🙂

    I’m not picking on Perry Ellis. Ok maybe a little, but I’m a fan and that is what fans do. However I promise you I’m his biggest fan. I want Perry Butterfingers Ellis to be the player we all know he can be.

    Think of it this way what if the nickname sticks? and he turns it around and becomes the player we all know he can be. He goes pro loves the name so much he keeps it, and gets a multimillion dollar contract to endorse Butterfingers. Hey it could happen.

    When I first got the nickname DoubleDD, I thought all my God. (Yea like I would give that to myself. 😉 ) my life is ruined. However I accepted it and even embraced it. Today as an old man I’m still known as DoubleDD. 🙂 To this day I still have people come up to me and say DoubleDD you remember me? and I’m like nope.

  • @DoubleDD said:

    Today as an old man I’m still known as DoubleDD. 🙂

    What??? I envisioned you as a buxom young woman!

    Got it all wrong in more ways than one.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Calipari? Ahhh…the poor guy gets picked on. I feel just awful about my attitude towards that slime sucking dawg…I do…I do… I really do…



  • Banned


    I would be an ugly women. 🙂 Trust me. LOL

  • @DoubleDD From a pair of rockets, we’re down to saggy man breasts…lolol…

  • This post is deleted!

  • @drgnslayr said:

    Perry has absolutely no swagger. I’ve never seen a player with no swagger before. None.

    Pretty much. He looks bored out there. It doesn’t seem like he enjoys playing the game. Particularly strange for a post player, he’s just as plain as it gets. He makes Jeff Withey look like Lawrence Taylor.

  • @MoonwalkMafia That has always been Perry’s demeanor. I don’t think it is any different than it has been.

  • @bskeet said:

    part of the reason for Perry’s performance is that teams are keying on him more than anyone else…


    And Self is just letting him labor, while he tries to find successes for Oubre and Cliff and Jam Tray.

    Perry is basically being told he is the daddy and he has to bring home the bacon without any one helping.

    The rest of the family gets all the child rearing attention of Mother Self at least through January.

  • @JayHawkFanToo said:

    Perry is frequently double teamed; in fact, he is the only KU player that is regularly double teamed.

    Bingo again.

    And Self is not giving him any wrinkles or help to get out of the doubles.

    He is trying to use the double teaming of Perry to create opps for the green wood and help them figure out how to play.

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    I think once Cliff can be counted on for 20-25 most nights, then we will see Self start scheming some for Perry and we will see Perry’s scoring rise back up to 15 ppg with a few 20 point games. The guy went off for 30+ once. He is a natural scorer. He is just learning the hard way that natural scorers can’t spend their lives doing spin moves. They’ve got to man up against the doubles and get hard and aggressive to survive. The Designer will learn. He is learning. But all good things take time.

  • Perry does face some doubles.

    He’s known this for some time.

    So why does he freeze when he catches the ball in the post?

    He has practiced many of his post moves his entire life. Why don’t they come second-nature to him so when he catches the ball he should be immediately making his move?

    He seems to lack rhythm… it’s part of timing.

    And he isn’t always doubled. Many of his post moves are poorly designed, not protecting the ball by creating the right scoring space. He either needs to take it right into the body of the defender to freeze his motion and prevent him from gating his arms to swat the ball, or he needs to protect the ball by putting his body between the ball and the defender, and he needs to use the backboard properly, often finding a quick shot off the glass to beat the defender.

    Perry has pretty moves. And they are gorgeous to defenders anxious to swat them!

    Another aspect is his footwork. The closest thing he has to footwork is his spin move, Everyone knows that move now.

    I kind of wonder… Perry is graceful. But I’m wondering if any aspect of that gracefulness was natural? Or was it all manufactured through repetition?

    At some point, a player has to create. Is Perry capable of creating? Or does all of his moves have to be canned and preplanned? Is that why he freezes when he catches the ball?

  • Speaking of new nicknames, do we not recognize our truly and comically newest? MR. FLEX!

  • @REHawk Oubre has flexed way more than Cliff. He just didn’t get T’d up for it. Hopefully we won’t be calling Cliff Mr. T!

  • @approxinfinity If I had to feed a kid that size, would likely be calling him Mr T Bones …but maybe only behind his back !!

  • @JayHawkFanToo BTW …

    KU on Wednesday ranked first in Big 12 Conference games only in scoring defense (55.3 ppg), field-goal percentage defense (32.7) and rebounding margin (plus 6). The Jayhawks also ranked second in blocked shots and steals in league games only.

    Hattrick to KuSports. Does that sound like the defense ranked so low by Kenpom? The number 1 defense in the best conference in America.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Now, that was funny! Thanks.


    …but…but…didn’t Keegan say that KU’s defense was “hardly feared” by opponents? 😏

  • @JayHawkFanToo The “chin music” took one on the chops for that blasphemy. It makes me wonder if the naysayers even watch our team. This is a very good defensive team. Anybody who says otherwise should simply put their .2 cents worth back in their pocket.


    These are the 3 better known rankings:

    KenPom still has OU at #12, 2 spots ahead of KU at #14.

    Massey has KU at #5 and OU at #27

    Sagarin has KU #11 and OU at #18

    The composite of all ranking has KU at #7 and OU at #17. Of the 40 computer rankings, as of last Sunday, only Ken Pomeroy and 5 others (BVL Least Squares, The Power Rank, T-Rank, Pigskin, Stat Fox) had OU ahead of KU. As of today, ONLY Ken Pomeroy and T-Rank have OU ahead of Oklahoma and all the others have KU ahead…that is 38 out of 40 who have KU ahead, which leaves Ken Pomeroy as a true outlier compared to all the other computer models.

    With all due respect to @Jesse-Newell, I just don’t see any objective way you can justify having OU ahead of KU; 38 out 40 computer models agree with me…and the NCAA RPI as well…😉

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