Unexpected KU Precedents Continue Against Kent State
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@JayhawkRock78 I think they used the color scheme based on volcanic dust. I have dubbed those unis “the Mt. St Helens volcanic ash uniforms”.
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@wrwlumpy We are spoiled rotten. We are ingrates to the highest degree ( myself included ). I take the criticism as loving parents who complain about their kids. They still love them, even though they want to strangle them at times.
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Spot on, as always, Jaybate. I was literally screaming at the television for Self to get Mason out of there and put Manning (or anyone) in. My heart was in my throat when Mason pulled up lame at one point.
Having declared that Mason was the team’s most valuable player, Self uses him like some kind of draft horse. Having also said that Manning should get more playing time, Self forgets about him until there are 2-3 possessions to go in the game.
I propose that one of the assistant coaches be given the sole task during the game, of reminding Coach Self of who is available on the bench, and why they should come in. If Self puts said player in, he can be given a treat. Designated Coach should also have a little clicker or whistle available as an event marker. Enough clicks and treats and Self should get the idea. It works for animal training.
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This team is making me crazy!!
Is there any other group of fans in the country (besides Kentucky) that would cry about having the #2 RPI, having a W/L record of 10-2 and being ranked #12 or 13 in the top 25?
Having said that, I spent the entire first half of last night’s game thinking I hadn’t seen more “starts with P and rhymes with wussy” since back in the late 70’s when I used to frequent a very fine gentleman’s club in Austin, which I believe was called “The Doll House”.
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@KUSTEVE I like the gray uni’s.
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@nuleafjhawk if you are referring to Perry, I get it. But, Perry hung in there and adjusted, put back some misses too. He didn’t disappear like the last 2 games.
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So many good comments here that echo my own feelings, just felt the need to say so in one last 2014 post…
wrw - thanks for the gator link, thankfully we did not have a play like that one!
rehawk - I think your wager is fairly sound about the 1-4 wins against Tejas and IS, although we do have the power of the Phog for maybe 2-4
kusteve - Spot on with nearly all comments. Not sure I saw much chest hair on Ellis, and interesting take on Greene not being around next year…a couple more no-show games and I think you’re right. And while we soooo need Graham back, I have a funny feeling that even when we do, he’ll be too rusty and still hurting to be that effective.
beddie - two great posts, sad observations but true I think. I thought they’d get better over the xmess break too, but totally agree, since Lafayette I’ve had that same awful feeling. And Seldon’s shooting “slump” is more than that.
zig - yep, I’d say UK is a lock this year, maybe even go undefeated. Sure hope I’m wrong on those though
hem - first have to say thanks for all the great posts this year, you’re one of the main reasons I keep coming back for more here. And I’m struggling too and, unbelievably after a win, while I would not have had the cajones to say it, it might have been worse than the Temple game, as Temple is a serious team with those two new additions and Kent State is, well Kent State.
blown - I really really really hope you are wrong about Bill being on the back nine and us becoming more of a 24-8 team… but I have this little nagging voice that says you’re not.
nuleaf - Yes, team makes me crazy! Yes, we are spoiled rotten cry babies! And yes the Doll House in the late 80’s in Austin was a spectacular display of P, even eclipsing last night!
and last but not least, the prolific preacher of the jayhawk gospel himself, jb - it was the best of posts, it was the worst of posts. The best in that, as you usually are, you were humorous and insightful and fun to read. It was also the worst of posts for me, in that you intelligently and glibly popped so many of my hopeful bubbles about our team this year that I kept getting sadder with each one. The bullets to my two favorites - Oubre (getting his first OAD highlight reel game against lesser opponents) and Self (over playing Mason and being a nostalgia game) were especially deadly.
I can’t remember ever feeling this way after a WIN. I feel silly about it, but it’s still the way I feel…
But, being an eternal optimist, I’ll look for something bright to end the year with… things can change quickly in sports and people can surprise us, catch on fire (who would have guessed Embiid’s trajectory?) A couple of toughly fought, tooth and nail wins, a couple of boys growing into men and leading this team - and maybe a few antacids - will get rid of this feeling in my stomach.
Happy Gnu Year to all the board rats. Here’s hoping we look back in April and all go “Man, who would have thought back in late December that this team would go so far in the big dance?”
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@jaybate-1.0 Thanks for creating an entertaining spin on the obviously pitiful & p%#s poor prime time performance of our superstar studded rendition of Hogan’s Heroes, Home for the Holidays. Hopefully it’s not Hogans Goat next time out. UNLV is no pushover. Check Arizona.
And thanks to all the @nuleafs, Jethro’s, &@wrlumpy’s who contributed some witty humor for a guy to read while head scratching & repeating over & over-what in the H, what in the H, What in the H has Zenger done to my Samsung? Will somebody please tell that clown that we can’t see squat on the radio ?? No more than I’ve got to see of these guys this year all I can contribute is a woeful damned if I know. But I do know it’s Dec 31st & I just might like to enjoy an adult beverage a little later to wash down whatever it is that Zenger made me swallow. Anything past about 10:00 am would seem to be an acceptable time to tee it up. At least I hope with some smoke & mirrors we can all enjoy Happy & Prosperous New Year !! I’ll take 2 losses with a little Cognac going forward. Y’all enjoy!
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HOWLING!
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Last night’s win troubles me more than any win should. A win should reveal strengths, not confirm flaws.
Last night’s win did both.
Oubre has made it clear that he is the best player on this team, period. No one else did squat for the first six or seven minutes of the game and Oubre basically kept us in it by himself. He should have gone for 30 or 35 last night. He was playing hard on both ends, rebounding and was probably our best perimeter defender for most of the night.
Selden has not been aggressive enough looking for his offense, and that continued last night. Selden is not a shooter. He is a slasher. He needs to drive to open up his long range game, but he is not driving to score. He is driving to pass, which is screwing up his whole offensive game. Just a mess right now, in every appreciable way.
The first 15 minutes of the game was a microcosm of the weaknesses in Perry’s game. Because he’s not an explosive athlete, Perry has to use pristine footwork to create space because he doesn’t just explode up and dunk on people. But matched up with a long armed athlete like Jimmy Hall, he struggled to find those spaces. There is no way Perry should be getting outplayed for that long of a period by a good but not great mid major player if he is truly going to be the “go-to” guy on a national title contender. Last night confirmed for me that Perry needs to be the second or third option on this team if we are going to have a chance to compete for a title. Perry was much better as the game wore on, but as @BeddieKU23 said, he could have been yanked early in the first half and it would have been entirely justified.
Alexander must be more banged up than we know because last night was the kind of game he should have gotten more minutes in, and he barely played. This is something to watch.
Svi and Brannen are lost at sea for no apparent reason. Neither played that well last night. I figured one of the two would find a way to contribute on a regular basis, but that is turning out to not be the case. This is probably the second biggest concern I have going forward.
Self is running a real risk of grinding Mason into the ground. Devonte needs to get healthy fast because Mason played 35 minutes last night and he got banged up a couple different times. If Self is going to ride him that much in games, I hope he is giving him reps off in practice to recover. This is something that merits monitoring as well.
My greatest concern going forward is that Kelly Oubre was having a night last night and Self didn’t let him just go off. Oubre was lining things up for a 30-35 point explosion. He was red hot in the first half. I bet he could have gone for 25 the way he was shooting in the first half if we had just kept feeding him. Instead, we force fed the post even though Perry was struggling. With about 9 minutes left in the first half Kelly was 5-5 with four made threes and 14 points overall. Perry was 2-6.
On each of the next two possessions, KU got Kelly Oubre looks at jumpers, which he nailed because he was red hot.
Wait, that’s not what happened.
On each of the next two possessions, KU got jumpers for Perry Ellis, who was struggling. He missed both. The second miss did result in Perry eventually scoring after Landen grabbed an offensive rebound.
Kelly didn’t get another shot until around the five minute mark. Nailed it. 6-6, 16 points. Flames are engulfing his left hand and smoke is rising from the tips of his hair. Surely KU will ride Oubre through the rest of the half.
It should bother you that Kelly did not take another shot the rest of the half. I will grant that KU did get Perry going at the end of the half, as he scored six points in the final five minutes of the half, but look at what I just wrote above. I’ll write it again down here.
With about 9 minutes left in the first half Kelly was 5-5 with four made threes and 14 points overall. Kelly didn’t get another shot until around the five minute mark. Nailed it. 6-6, 16 points.
That paragraph summarizes my frustration. Kelly Oubre was ready to go crazy last night, but the constraints of our system wouldn’t let him because the system says we have to throw the ball into the post even though the most talented player on the team is red hot and ready to go for 40 if we need him to so we can get this win.
It worked last night because last night we were dealing with Kent State. That won’t work against Texas. They’re too good. That won’t work against Iowa State. That probably won’t even work against Oklahoma. It won’t work against Kentucky, Louisville or Duke. Probably won’t fly against Wisconsin or Villanova. Won’t work against Arizona or Virginia. May not work against Gonzaga. Got us into trouble against Utah. We’re talking about the difference between possibly getting to the Elite Eight or Final Four and getting knocked out in or before the Sweet Sixteen here.
This is a huge problem and it has not gone away. I am watching this very carefully.
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@globaljaybird jan 31, have you started early?? Feel the same way about SZ!
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Good comments all on our Jekyll and Hyde performance last night. I couldn’t watch it with fully devoted attention, something about being all together as a family for a few days that distracts me, but here goes.
Oubre was looking like a bust to me, but is appearing to be getting it rather quickly. The question is, why is he starting to get it and the veterans appear to be forgetting it?
I hate turnovers and, thankfully we solved that problem in the 2nd half but our TO’s kept them in the game. Bo Ryan sits guys after making a TO. They may come right back into the game, but is it any wonder they lead the nation every year in ball security? Maybe every team does the same, but he has his boys practice simple passes nearly every day. I’ve seen video of the drills, they’re so easy 5th graders could do them. We limit the TO’s we’re going to not look like we did last night.
Tonights riddle wrapped up in a puzzle award goes to Wayne Selden. The good news with him is maybe he’s our next Tyshawn Taylor and by his senior year gets it and leads us to the NC game. That’s my only hope for the guy right now.
Brannen Greene for the don’t get too excited about one or two good games because I’m going back to my irrelevant status award. I really thought the young man had figured it out a few games back. Now I fear we will never see him contribute to this team. I fear that because he just seems to ooze potential to me.
As others have pointed out I don’t think we’ll need to worry about Frank Mason much anymore. He’s become a steady go to guy for us.
UNLV Sunday will provide a test/tuneup for the league games. Last year we failed that test with SDState. We don’t lose many games at AFH so that certainly sticks out in my memory. UNLV just beat Arizona, no easy task.
Happy RCJWKNuyear
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Lots of accurate observations -I really can’t add anything except my confidence in this years chances for another Big 12 title or deep run in March is not as high this year.
It was nice to see Oubre shine.
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@REHawk I understand your concern…Texas and ISU are playing better than we are. But, we should get better and I like our chances against just about anyone at home. “Amazed” if we win more than 1 of the 4 seems a bit extreme to me as I would never be amazed if we beat anyone at AFH (well, maybe this year’s UK team)
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@Crimsonorblue22 Is a frog waterproof?
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Think I’m kind of like everyone else in here… seeing bright spots and areas of darkness.
What stuck out at me the most in this game wasn’t Kelly’s high-octane performance (it stuck out second).
What stuck out most was Perry and how the team sinks or swims by Perry’s performance.
We were down by 6 in the first half, and Self totally got on Perry and he came out of a time-out and played with some energy. He didn’t do everything perfect after that, but he was able to get some hard-earned buckets, and that is when we made our move and never looked back.
What that told me is this team is following Perry. Even though Kelly was nailing every shot and stealing balls to boot, it couldn’t keep us up with the golden flash until Perry decided he was ready to play.
This is monumental, and I’m not sure it is a good thing. It’s good if Perry comes ready to play every night. But we all know he doesn’t have that reputation.
After one more game, we go into league play, and we need to win those first 3 games. These are games we should win (and must win) if we expect a shot at #11.
There is still a lot of slack in our play. We still don’t have an identity. Who are we? Who do we count on? What is our “bread and butter?”
On the positive, these games that pop up during our Christmas practice period often produce strange results. Self is in the midst of trying different things, pushing guys’ buttons, and teaching these kids more plays and strategy. In the midst of that, the results of a game can be unpredictable. We better just feel good that we won that one. For the millionth time now… we need to remember how young this team is.
I thought this was going to be Wayne’s team. So far, it is Perry’s team. I thought Wayne would be our “knight in consistent armor” this year. That hasn’t proven to be. I was hoping for him to lead with consistency, to help the young lads out.
As anticipated, Kelly is coming on. He’s a huge bright light on a team full of shadows. We still haven’t experienced what he is capable of. He just gave us a taste.
Perhaps Kelly is up to leading this team. Give him some time and let him continue to build his confidence… who knows… maybe by March?
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@globaljaybird
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A little bit of “take it for what you think it’s worth” info, but according to a guy I know who talks to Perry’s high school coach (Joe Auer), apparently whenever Perry returns home to Wichita they touch base and Auer will make the high school gym available to Perry. Within the last week they got together and Auer told Perry he looked flat during one of the games recently (could be either the Lafayette or Temple games, or both) and asked what gives. Perry allegedly told the coach that he had gotten into Self’s doghouse and Self made him run the steps (the Withey treatment) and that he simply didn’t have any legs for the game.
Again, take it for what it’s worth. Hearsay. Rumor. Whatever. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was true, or it wouldn’t surprise me if the guy was blowing smoke to try and impress me with his “insider knowledge”.
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@icthawkfan316 hmmm, what do you think?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Well, really I can’t think of why the guy would lie to try and impress me. I don’t have any influence in any arena, nor am I in a position to grant any kind of favors. But ya never know with people; sometimes they just like to feel big so they make up fish stories.
I’m inclined to think it’s true. I think if he is in Self’s doghouse it would almost certainly be from his on-court effort and performance. I can’t see Perry struggling with his classes, getting a DUI (Brady), interferring with a police officer (Jamari), etc. My younger brother lives in Lawrence and never sees him out partying or hears about any extra curricular nonsense.
So following that train of thought - that he is in the doghouse and it’s due to effort/execution in games and/or practices - then we can assume he is in Self’s “toughening box”. Self knows he needs Perry; he doesn’t have enough better options to banish him to the end of the bench. So it’s different than say…Brannen being in Self’s doghouse. Self can make due without Brannen, but we can’t have a successful season without Perry. So maybe Self harkened back to how he turned laid-back California Withey into stank-face Withey, and decided it’s worth a shot. Idk if it will work, but my guess is he’s taking the Christmas break period to try a different approach (pushing different buttons, as @drgnslayr would say).
As a Wichita native and resident, as well as a Heights alum and just general fan of the guy, I’m rooting for Perry to have as much success as possible. But there’s no ignoring his struggles or shortcomings. I think not having a legitimate 5 playing alongside him hurts as much as anything. Perry’s not a guy who can own the paint. But put him with a Cole Aldrich, Jeff Withey, Joel Embiid and he can be very effective. Put him with Landon Lucas and Jamari Traylor…defenses can focus on him. Game plan for him. And he becomes very mediocre.
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@icthawkfan316 I was trying to figure what Perry would look like w/stank face look from Withey! I do remember coach saying he wouldn’t change Perry, he is what he is, but thought it was more about leadership qualities. Very interesting. I do think Perry came back strong last pm, after his shaky start.
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I felt like Perry had a good game. After reading the posts, I had to go back to the box score to see if I was imaging something. 7-14 for 15 pts. and 8 rebs. OK. His FT’s sucked. Isn’t that pretty good? Clearly he was better in the 2nd half…not uncommon for a player to have 1 good half and 1 mediocre half. He got some shots blocked. I have to believe that Self wants to keep going inside to him regardless. Some may get blocked. Have the preseason expectations maybe been set too high? I know we might expect something a little more against Kent State. Can’t we be successful if Perry has a similar performance in the Big 12 games? Yes…I know the competition is stiffer than Kent State…but Perry has done it before against Big 12 competition. He can’t go 20 and 12 every game. Am I setting the bar too low?
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@HighEliteMajor Temple is a hell of a team right now. They won at UConn about an hour ago. Lots of cuts, bruises, typical for their styles & we know where we fit in that conversation. Had I been able to see Kent State I might be more concerned than after Temple, but they’re certainly no cupcake. UConn has a badass rim protector too & still Dunphy got the W. Morgan & Cummings both in double figures & nailing FT’s almost as high % as vs Kansas. UNLV brings a really big challenge at a time we are not playing with much consistency beyond Frank Mason & who knows how hard Bill will ride him without a credible backup. Sure as H isn’t “all balls & head down Wayne” If we’re 11-2 next Sunday I’ll be happy as a puppy with 2 peters… JMO
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@Crimsonorblue22 Why don’t we just change to purple…or gold and black? Makes as much sense as “sepia volcano dust gray”. You have to trust me on this - I am considered a fashion expert at the cement pond :)…
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@globaljaybird HA! Your puppy allusion really brightened an otherwise drizzly day. Most of the posts on this thread (including my own) project impending doom. I agree that if we are 11-2 next Sunday eve, things will look cheery as we roar into league play. (I had best stop typing right now before I revert to something pessimistic or caustic.) HAPPY 2015 to ALL! What a dandy Jayhawk Hoops Site!
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@KUSTEVE ha ha I bet you are!!
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@Jyhwk_InTigrtwn Great post, Same sentiments to you as well!
My big question of the moment is why is Coach Self unable to let go of trying to make this team into the 08 team? Its not gonna happen. We dont have the roster to play inside out every freeking possession. Kelly SHOULD have gotten 42 last night, broke Wigs single game scoring record.@jaybate-1.0 We do have more than one 40% trey gunner. Our coach just hasnt let them do it with enough frequency.
Final thought, right now I dont see this KU team making it out of the first round.
oh yah, final final thought. UNLV beat Arizona AT their place. They can certainly beat KU on Sunday.
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@Lulufulu it seems to me, that coach has given the green light to all wings and Perry to shoot the 3. If we develop our inside game, doesn’t that open up the 3?
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It was a true joy to find all of you again. After reading the alternative KU posts, someone was kind enough to let us know that there is a great site with great fans. It is a joy to read you guys again.
Bill Self is not on the ‘back nine’. Last year at this time, we were all worried about OSU and how well they were playing. KU loses to Villanova, gets destroyed by Florida and loses at home to SDS. KU then goes on a run-and wins on the road key Big 12 games and the title is in site again.
This title will be difficult-most have been. Texas has the perfect team to give us fits. ISU is solid and OU will be tough. One simply has to go back and see how Bill Self has fared against each of those coaches and teams. Hoiberg has the best case against KU. I would take Self vs Barnes any game-anywhere.
I watched KU beat Florida in Vegas with Julian Wright. That was a young team. All came back except Julian and we know the rest of the story. Enjoy this year and hope that we can keep the streak alive. Next year is shaping up to be one of Bill Self’s best teams.
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Glad you found us. Welcome. Hope you’re right.
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Coach, I absolutely hate it when you get pessimistic!
I am not a bonafide professional.
I get to be pessimistic out of ignorance.
You on the other hand have some obligation to hold our hands and say it will be alright!!!
Ah, but it IS alright.
We have The Legacy.
We have a great coach.
We have players worth loving and rooting for.
We have great fans.
No one has crashed the stock market yet.
Putin stopped the South Stream gas line under the Black Sea and partnered over land with Turkey and the west.
Women are still beautiful.
The private owners of The Fed are going to keep interest rates down awhile longer.
The world is awash in more oil and gas than it knows what to do with.
Scientists have decided it is okay to eat butter and use aluminum cookware, after all.
Every game from here on out is going to be somewhere we can watch it.
Happy New, Year, Coach, Happy, Happy New Year!!
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@jaybate-1.0 you seem, uh, “happy”? Ringing in the new year?
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No, no booze for me, if that’s the question.
Hung up the shaker about 25 years ago.
No addiction problem. Just nudged me closer to high blood sugar than I liked. Best thing I ever did.
But, hell, yes, I love New Years.
Ever since I was 10 and saved an M-80 from July 4th till the New Years and detonated it at 4 below zero in a huge snow drift, I have loved the holiday as much as any.
Happy New Years!
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How about you, are you already a little tight?
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@jaybate-1.0 I don’t drink either. I tried! I’d be sick for days. Happy new year to you. I’m watching suns and thunder on fox sports.
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@jaybate-1.0 funny, I’d be loose if I was drinking.
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Happy New Year to " all y’all".
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BACK AT YOU!
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Yes, me, too. But I was just using an old slang from the movies of the 1940s-1950s for fun.
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@jaybate-1.0 missed those!
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Tight may even have been from the 1930s. Regardless, I pick out a two decade period and a genre every year, or two, and try to watch movies from that era. I study the evolution of the mythology and camera techniques. Last year I watched westerns from the 1940s to 1950s without John Wayne or James Stewart in them to see what the lesser actors and directors were trying to do. The 1 million channels on cable, plus internet, plus TIVO make this easy and fast to do. This pic is probably from The Thin Man with William Powell and Myrna Loy. Get ta know ya legacies. It is necessary to know your present.
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@jaybate-1.0 Some of the best memories of my youth is watching movies with my father late Saturday nights after mom and my sisters (3 of them) were in bed. Pop had a tough upbringing and did a ton of things to get me prepared along the way. Anyway-I love old movies with the Duke-but my favorite without him is Alan Ladd in “Shane”. Is that on your list?
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Shane is one of my all time favorites. Alan Ladd and Jack Palance shooting it out. What could be better. The final scene is a real tear jerker. Actually one of the latest Geico ads is a takeoff of it. The one with the “words can hurt” and the guy hits his head on the “The End”.
Maybe KU could do something like what was done with Alan Ladd. He was a real heart throb but only about 5’4" or so. They would dig ditches so that the ladies could stand in them and be shorter. If we could only do something similar with Cliff and make him appear to be a footer.
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GREAT THREAD!!! Just got home after 11.5 hr drive from the Holy Land (Kansas btw)
Here’s a shot of Vail from I-70 tonite!
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Sorry to veer off topic on last post!
I’m in agreement w much of above. I know hcbs knows what he’s doing but he seems REALLY set in his ways. Before Kent State we had a great thread about how Alexander needed to play a minimum of 30 min. It made/makes complete sense to me. However, JamTray starts and gets a ton of unjustified minutes.
I’d start Cliff and Perry and sub Mickelson, Lukas and JamTray in that order.
I’d also start Svi over Selden.
Don’t know what to do w Greene.
We need to play outside in.
Shoot at LEAST 20 threes/game.
Blah blah blah…
RCJHGKU!!!
I’m done posting till next year
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Shane is an awesome movie. I enjoy watching all of the scenes that the background changes. The Tetons are covered with clouds, then someone else is shown and they go back and now the Tetons are cloud free. It happens all through the movie!
@colojhawk Welcome to our little KU cult. When you get a KU shaved into your forehead, or if you have no hair there, a tattoo at the same spot, give us a pic and you’ll be officially in.
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@VailHawk I predict that Cliff will soon earn a bundle of minutes. Indications are that he is struggling with shin discomfort, and has not fully recovered from the ankle sprain. Then, first minute off the bench he did not run the floor and execute with energy, so got the quick hook. His TIME is coming…and soon. Gotta hope that Bill does not read your Svi over Selden suggestion. The Guy might drop into coronary mayhem! I think most of us are right there with you on the BG issue. What the hell to do with him? I suppose he will squeeze out fifteen minutes of fame now and then…interspersed with five minute stretches of YIKES! Anyway, there are so many bright possibilities lurking within this squad that we are in for lotsa sunny mornings after. HAPPY NEW YEAR to you and all faithful Jayhawk buckets posters. ROCK CHALK!
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@jaybate-1.0 First color flick I ever watched was “Gunfight at the OK Corral” at the Uptown back in the 50’s. We rode the passenger train from the boondocks to Union Station & took the bus to my 75 yr old Aunt’s house at 31st & Forest. Another classic from that time frame was “Last Train From Gun Hill” w/ Kirk Douglas & Anthony Quinn Those were the days…seems to me we may have even paid the fare with plastic mill tokens.
