THE TEMPLE OWLS AND THE LEGACY OF JOHN CHANEY
Still, no one but Coach knows who will start.
In 1993, KU’s first division 1 opponent was John Chaney and the Temple Owls. Roy and John had become good friends, even though KU had won the last two battles by a lot. Temple came to Lawrence a day early and Roy had taken John out for BBQ. During the pre-game, John praised the Jayhawks and the BBQ, and then went on to chalk up one of the rare wins in Allen Field house. Temple under Chaney played a Zone Press which is what he was known for and it took him to the NCAA tournament 17 times. He later gained the respect of all KU fans when he took on John Calipari for swearing at the Refs and threatening them after a Temple - UMass game, telling them they would never work as Refs ever again.
jaybate 1.0 last edited by jaybate 1.0
Every picture of Cos makes me sad now. I keep hoping allegations will all be refuted I looked up to him from the time I heard his first comedy album when I was 8 at neighbor’s house on their Stereo HiFi spinning a 33 1/3 rpm vinyl of young Bill–early 60s. Never connected with his TV show much, but knew it was doing a lot of good for a lot of persons. Every comedian, Richard Pryor said, if I recall correctly, is working from a huge painful hole at the center of himself that was created by some tragedy in his childhood. They are all that way I believe. So since they all don’t do what Cos reputedly did once he got famous, we can apparently infer that his reputed problem tracks to what he may have let fame do to him. Can’t let this one go any easier than I can let the priests off the hook. God will have to forgive him, if he were proven guilty. I couldn’t. I have great sympathy for him, but not nearly as much as I have for his reputed victims.
John Cheney? He appeared to be one of the guys that turned the game into thug ball. But what I admired about him was his willingness to fight for his players. Like Self recruits characters, Cheney appeared to recruit guys that often had never had anyone willing to fight for them. I believe that was his secret. He appeared to know how much it meant to have someone actually not just believe in you, but fight for your chance to make it. It is such a big difference.
Cheney appeared to try to intimidate any opposing coach. He seemed to feel he owed it to his players, who were apparently kids scrambling against long odds in a society that was often stacked against them. I liked that about him. And I would have taken a metaphorical baseball bat to him in a game in a pico second, because I feel exactly the same way about persons I try to help. Nothing personal. I just would have tried to KO him before the game started, same as he would have me.
John Calipari at UMass appeared to believe he could coach a slick game against Cheney with some of Cal’s players (one that in the end led to vacated seasons), and Cheney reputedly decided to show the green coach that you don’t slide things by a Philly guy. Cheney and Cal reportedly squared off. Both were reputedly held back from fighting and I believe both men were embarrassed at how they had acted…but only to some extent.
Cal was quoted in an article when he took over Memphis, if I recall correctly, that he was embarrassed about squaring off with Cheney on a floor, but Cal said he knew that if he had let Cheney bully him off the floor, his players would have quit on him and his career as a recruiter and coach would have been sunk. If I recall correctly, he said I couldn’t ask my players to fight for me, if I weren’t willing to fight for them. He implied that he probably would have gotten his clock cleaned by Cheney, but that he didn’t care if he lost. He just knew he could not back down and face his players. Cheney seemed the same way, but Cheney was probably too old school ever to even talk about it.
I don’t ever want a coach to fight another coach. It is the antithesis of what basketball is about. But I also don’t want any coach to back down from another coach trying to bully him either.
I like Bill Self’s approach, because he appears hard nosed, and unafraid of opposing coaches. But at the same time he appears to make them pay by outsmarting them as soon as they try to bully them, rather than waste a lot of time jawing at them.
But John Cheney (born 1932) came from a time and a place where things were different. Cheney, interestingly, was reputedly born in Florida and went to Bethune-Cookman and came north to coach in a Philly high school before coaching at Cheyney State in Pennsylvania, where he won an NAIA title before taking over at Temple. Cheney was apparently a hard case. Period. But his players reputedly knew he was fighting for them, leading them, not using them, IMHO. It was why Temple was always a little different kind of team, when Cheney coached them. There was a deep contract between he and his players. Cheney was NOT a saint. He appeared a fighter. And tough guy looking for an edge all the time. The Philly 'hood culture was not Cheney’s culture as far as I can tell. It was what his players came from and he was the guy that had grown up in something even tougher down south–Jim Crow culture. There was no BS with him and his players. He apparently coached the zone, because in the zone groups of guys could gang up and maul an offensive player. Temple basketball was during his day something like what Izzo and Michigan State are today. Bring your brass knuckles to play, because they are bringing theirs. And if they got you down, they went ahead and kicked you in the metaphorical head. But Cheney built teams. And they played a certain way. And you had to want it bad to win, because they did.
The game survives guys like Cheney and Izzo, but only if the right way guys fight to save it.
But guys like Cheney and Izzo help a lot of young men that need someone to fight for them to make them realize they can make it in the world.
life isn’t simple.
BeddieKU23 last edited by
The only thing that scares me about this game is the fact that Temple just got 2 transfers eligible who will make them better. And they rained 3’s in their last game with these guys.
wissoxfan83 last edited by
I always liked Chaney for what he accomplished. He, like Self at Tulsa and what’s his name at Xavier, were able to make a upper mid major feel like a feared major when we were playing them. I’m pretty sure a year or two ago we stomped them pretty good, but that’s not the norm with Temple and I’m guessing won’t be the same tomorrow.
Chaney managed to do it with lunch bucket type players. I can’t think of Temple players who made it to the league, although I’m sure there were some. I know I could look it up but that would negate my point. He did it with guys who were not hyped recruits but who would be bench warmers at many other places. That is the definition of a coach. And Chaney was a coach.
Bobby Knight’s thoughts on Cal.
Another great KU athletics highlight from yesterday.
Lulufulu last edited by
@wrwlumpy WOW!! Bob Knight!! That video was in 2011 and Im certain this still applies today. Calipari has ZERO integrity. Lets his players skate by with no classes the second semester. I wonder if that is a recruiting point for him. Hey, come play for me for a year, you only have to skate by one half the semester with a C average and then you can make your millions as a lottery pick next year. I have very ill feelings toward Cal.
Lulufulu last edited by
thing of beauty
wissoxfan83 last edited by
The video link you titled “Bobby Knight’s thoughts on Cal” took me to the Cal/chaney argument.
Do you have the link for Knight?
By the way, I’m pretty sure there are rules in place even for OAD’s that they just can’t drop out when the season is over. The school would be sanctioned if they did. I thought I heard that somewhere.
BucknellJayhawk3 last edited by
So this is a little off topic but I was at the UVA vs Harvard game today and saw a team play brilliantly both on offense and defense. Virginia has four juniors that get the bulk of the playing time and touches, and it was very clear that they knew where they were supposed to be all the time. The best part is, they keep playing defense even with a big lead.
As we head into our last bit of non-conference schedule, my wishes for the next few games are to close out Temple, UNLV and Kent State with 6 solid halves of high IQ bball, sharp defense and low turnover rate. I remember the first half of the Utah game where the Jayhawks played aggressive defense- they stuck to their man’s bodies like glue, they were very active and up in their bitnit. The second half of that game it was like they got bored of defense and were complacent to give them space. The second half of the Lafayette game seemed the same way, and they let them take perimeter shot after shot. Of course, Utah and Lafayette had their moments, and KU’s defense is by no means terrible, but I think they’ve got it in them to do it better! It could be too hard to say if this team has made some strides playing <<here comes the buzzword>> outside/in ball, but I think we’ve probably got even more to gain on the defense side.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by JayHawkFanToo
I am sorry lumpy but Chaney did not earn the respect of this KU basketball fan or most basketball fans at large. His tirade was offensive and beyond the boundaries of sportsmanship and decency, Calipari’s behavior notwithstanding. Keep in mind that on two other occasion prior to that he grabbed opposing coached by the neck and had them on choke holds; he also frequently berated referees a lot worse than what he accused Calipari of doing. I saw this first hand since my undergraduate school played Temple every year and most fans of schools that played Temple did not care for him at all. I cannot think of another coach at a major program that ever acted like that or that would get away with it.
The final straw was when he he sent a goon (his own words), namely a 6’-8" 250 pound football player name Nehemiah Ingram, who hardly ever played, with specific instructions to hurt opposing players. He did just that racking up 5 fouls in 4 minutes including a technical and the last one broke the arm of a St Joe’s player which ended his collegiate basketball career. Chaney suspended himself for one game and the school subsequently suspended him for the rest of the season. He retired a season later. Any other coach not named Chaney would have been banned for life by the NCAA and likely sued for millions.
@wissoxfan83 Sorry, don’t know what happened to the video and I could not find it again. but here is an article that has the written transcripts. I replaced it with the written story.
@JayHawkFanToo Yes I remember that incident. I was referring to what he said before he lost the high ground. Threatening to “Kill” Cal that cost him a one game suspension. In todays world people have said he would have been suspended for an entire year. I forgot all about the goon. All I know is that he coached an inner city group that played suffocating defense. His legacy is similar to Bobby Knight. Knight and Chaney were a lot alike. Both were old school A$$ holes. Like @Bucknell above, The coach of UVA is one of the most refreshing coaches in the land and he is the one I would pick to replace Self 10 years from now. Players of Knight and Chaney, except for the ones they choked, defended and loved both of them. Mike Woodson was a Hoosier that played for the KC Kings. A reporter asked him how Knight got the best out of his players. His answer was, “If you were timed in a 40 yard dash the first one would be OK, but the second time Knight would yell at you and cuss you as you ran. the second time was always much faster.” I also gave him a pass because Roy like him so much.
That was an excellent article but I could have lived without all the racial attacks of the comments included at the bottom of the article.
Knight did not have the correct information and had to apologize for his remarks.
I have no love lost for Calipari but he is not foolish enough to allow players to stop attending classes and not leave the school in good academic standard as it would trigger NCAA penalties and loss of scholarships like UConn. I believe the OAD model is seriously harming college basketball and there is plenty of reasons to criticize the squid about, but this is is not one of them…as much as we wish we could.
I hardly ever look at comments at he bottom of stories as most tend to be very biased and uninformed. I don’t know if race had anything to do with him getting away with as much as he did and many would say that it is indeed the case while others would say it is not. I personally prefer not to comment on that particular issues. I can only talk of the times I saw him in person at games and other times on TV and his behavior was always that of a bully trying to intimidate refs and opposing coaches alike. I am sure Temple fans seem him differently.
A very wise man once told me that there are 3 issues you just don’t discuss in a public forum, race, religion and abortion and many add a fourth, politics. I strongly believe all four should be left out a sports forum all together.
Amen. I completely agree. Cal is not the enemy and many coaches are still coaching that probably shouldn’t be,. Many have been given many chances at many schools, but moving from one place to another and leaving a school on probation leaves a bitter taste each time it happens. I’ll just read the articles from now on and not the comments. Chaney was never a saint and Cal has never been an innocent school boy.
By the way, they kissed and made up.
drgnslayr last edited by drgnslayr
“Bobby Knight’s thoughts on Cal.”
Read through the comments on that page. Guess Kansas fans aren’t the only ones thinking bad thoughts of Cal, and Cal served some time at Kansas to get his start.
This is going to get ugly. I bet a lot of fans feel the same way I feel about Cal’s current impact on the game. And he isn’t going to turn down the volume. All of this will intensify with time and Kentucky scalping opponents.
And imagine if Cal is caught doing something really bad at Kentucky? Especially if it happens later, after Kentucky clobbers all of college basketball for several more years. Though… I have my doubts Cal is breaking too many rules these days. He doesn’t need to. He’s at a basketball elite school, great facilities, the current top of recruits lists… I just think it is an ethics issue. If he can sign 13 McD’s AAs… is that good for the game? Maybe I’ve overestimated the impact. And maybe other coaches will learn to compete for the top players. Maybe. Maybe not. I just don’t think it will take many years of Kentucky butchering the field for fans to just start turning off the game. And to be honest… what counts in this country is one thing… money!
Anyone catch that UK/UCLA game? 83 - 44. Poor Steve is the latest victim of the all star team.
Nice photo above. Hey… I guess Cal decided to keep one of those Rolex watches!
The UK - Louisville rivalry is as big as any in the country. If UK steamrolls Rick like the other 7 coaches this year that have received their worst loss at the hands of the All Stars, then what further proof do you need that basketball is broken. The Nike feeders employ the AAU coaches who steer the players to the teams. The Norman Dales of this profession don’t have a chance.
VailHawk last edited by VailHawk
@drgnslayr may be right…the Squid may not need to break “the rules” anymore…but he’ll always feel SLIMY!
Question: which scenario would bored rats rather see:
#1. UK run the table regular season then lose first weekend of big dance and KU wins title.
#2. UK lose to UL now and to KU in national championship game.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@VailHawk # 2
joeloveshawks last edited by
@VailHawk Does #1 also include a KU title? I could care less who loses to who and when they lose as long as KU wins it all. If we beat an undefeated UK team or a surprise 8 seed I could care less.
justanotherfan last edited by
Any scenario that involves a KU national title gets my vote.
I looked at UK’s remaining schedule and I have the following dates of potential losses based on the following assumptions.
- They will not lose at home because they defend Rupp like we defend the Phog.
- They will play worse against lesser opponents than they will against strong teams
- It will get progressively harder to keep the streak going because the attention will get worse and worse as the season goes on.
December 27 @ #4 Louisville - rivalry game against a very good team with a tremendous player (Harrell) and coach (Pitino), plus a style that is just a headache to prepare for.
January 17 @ Alabama - second road game of the conference slate. Alabama isn’t particularly good, but they are feisty and athletic. The crowd will probably be rowdy.
January 29 @ Missouri - weekday road games are always dangerous. Mizzou’s crowd will show up for this one. Mizzou isn’t very strong, but they plan to play small and shoot threes. If UK is vulnerable, it will be to a team that gets hot from three. Playing at home, Mizzou could be that team.
February 7 @ Florida - probably the most dangerous game on the slate. The only thing is, UK will be ready for Florida. There is zero chance they overlook the Gators, so this is more dependent on Donovan and his crew having his squad ready to go.
February 10 @ LSU - this is the sneaky dangerous game. LSU gave UK all sorts of problems last year. It’s the game right after Florida, so UK, if they are still unbeaten, may let their guard down here. If I had to pick a game they lose, this would absolutely be my pick.
February 17 @ Tennessee - another rivalry game, so UK will probably be hyped up for it, but its on the road. If they have made it this far undefeated, the crowd at Thompson Boling will be ridiculous. Nothing like 24,000 people screaming at you.
March 3 @ Georgia - last road game of the season.
That’s seven games that UK may lose in the regular season. That’s not a lot of games, but its enough to safely say they won’t be running the table. I can’t see them getting through that Florida-LSU pair without dropping one of those games.
Nonetheless, this UK team is an all timer as far as talent. We will see if they are historic in their accomplishments as well.
Or those 7 games could add 7 more coaches to their 7 more “worst loss” lists. Like Self, Alford was probably asking for Vodka at the post game.
MU could not beat UK even if the cheerleaders play for UK. The only wins they have are against Valparaiso, Oral Roberts, Chaminade, SE MO State and Elon.
drgnslayr last edited by
“2. UK lose to UL now and to KU in national championship game.”
Hard to beat that option!
I can think of adding something to it, just to spice it up a bit:
AND… the NCAA suddenly is informed that the Unibrow had cheated on his SATs and Kentucky was forced to vacate their title. Meanwhile, Kansas fans protest and make it a national issue and the NCAA makes a policy change and gives Kansas that title!
If that happens, I’ll buy everyone in here a crimson/blue silk derby with a matching bouquet of flowers!
VailHawk last edited by
Good call, i just updated post